A20 version out

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Hans Harder

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Apr 13, 2013, 12:10:05 PM4/13/13
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Seems someone already brought out an A20 dev board

http://www.hotmcu.com/marsboard-a20-dev-board-p-60.html?cPath=33

Tom Cubie

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Apr 13, 2013, 12:21:45 PM4/13/13
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On Sun, Apr 14, 2013 at 12:10 AM, Hans Harder <ha...@atbas.org> wrote:
> Seems someone already brought out an A20 dev board
>
> http://www.hotmcu.com/marsboard-a20-dev-board-p-60.html?cPath=33

Ha, they are quick. We have tested some A20 cubies, below is what works:
NAND, USB host, USB otg, uSD, HDMI, VGA, 100M Ethernet, IR.

Sata driver is not ported yet, and mali400mp2 and cedarx is not tested yet.

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Tom Cubie

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Apr 13, 2013, 12:27:39 PM4/13/13
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On Sun, Apr 14, 2013 at 12:21 AM, Tom Cubie <mr.h...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Sun, Apr 14, 2013 at 12:10 AM, Hans Harder <ha...@atbas.org> wrote:
>> Seems someone already brought out an A20 dev board
>>
>> http://www.hotmcu.com/marsboard-a20-dev-board-p-60.html?cPath=33
>
> Ha, they are quick. We have tested some A20 cubies, below is what works:
> NAND, USB host, USB otg, uSD, HDMI, VGA, 100M Ethernet, IR.
>
> Sata driver is not ported yet, and mali400mp2 and cedarx is not tested yet.

There is still some way to go before ready to use stage, but we will
ship some a20 cubieboard(cubieboardii) to developers first. And the
further plan is the pcb will be changed to another revision, changing
the 100M ethernet to 1000M ethernet, adding the rtc and battery power
etc.

Silverio Diquigiovanni

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Apr 13, 2013, 12:51:14 PM4/13/13
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Great, RTC battery is what really missed :)
Go fast fastboi hipboi

Bastiaan van den Berg

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Apr 13, 2013, 1:52:22 PM4/13/13
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awesome news tom!!!
Can't wait :)

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Martin Wild

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Apr 13, 2013, 2:18:29 PM4/13/13
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Yeah, thats wan i want to hear!!

Cant wait to get an a20 Cubie!!!

Go On Tom !

Marcos Martinez Garcia

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Apr 13, 2013, 7:37:45 PM4/13/13
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Great news Tom,

I'll order one as soon as cubieboardii will be available.

Thanks.


2013/4/13 Martin Wild <lilc...@gmail.com>
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Andrius Kurtinaitis

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Apr 14, 2013, 8:08:52 AM4/14/13
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> Ha, they are quick. We have tested some A20 cubies, below is what works: 
> NAND, USB host, USB otg, uSD, HDMI, VGA, 100M Ethernet, IR.

Nice to hear that VGA works. Any chance to see it on Cubieboard?
 
> Sata driver is not ported yet, and mali400mp2 and cedarx is not tested yet. 

These are also very needed.
 
There is still some way to go before ready to use stage, but we will 
ship some a20 cubieboard(cubieboardii) to developers first. And the
further plan is the pcb will be changed to another revision, changing
the 100M ethernet to 1000M ethernet, adding the rtc and battery power

Gigabit ethernet is welcome.
I do not need RTC nor battery.

John Gentilin

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Apr 14, 2013, 1:09:23 PM4/14/13
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How about Power over Ethernet or Wireless ?

RipZ

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Apr 15, 2013, 6:12:21 AM4/15/13
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What would be the approximate price of new Cubie?

João Vilaça

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Apr 15, 2013, 6:16:03 AM4/15/13
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Sold out already. I was considering buying one but apparently took to long :)


On Sat, Apr 13, 2013 at 5:10 PM, Hans Harder <ha...@atbas.org> wrote:
Seems someone already brought out an A20 dev board

http://www.hotmcu.com/marsboard-a20-dev-board-p-60.html?cPath=33

cubieboard

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Apr 16, 2013, 1:39:24 AM4/16/13
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On Mon, Apr 15, 2013 at 6:12 PM, RipZ <v.sa...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> What would be the approximate price of new Cubie?

Price will remain the same.

LinBaiRui

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Apr 16, 2013, 4:06:19 AM4/16/13
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Will A10 cubies still be available? Any plans for 2GB RAM version of Cubie2? (If A20 even supports 2GB...)

Dieter Reuter

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Apr 16, 2013, 9:14:27 AM4/16/13
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Tom, 

1G Ethernet would be great.
When do you expect, that the cubieboardii could be available?
And what about a 2GByte version? 

Dieter

Pawel Borecki

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Apr 18, 2013, 1:56:56 PM4/18/13
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+1 on that, You have a customer in me, I would get like 3 or 4 of them as soon as they will be available. :)

Martin Wild

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Apr 18, 2013, 2:21:43 PM4/18/13
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Yeah , i'll also order instantly !

2Gb Ram is maybe a bit oversized for this performance level , but getting rid of this crappy WEMAC-ethernet-thing needs to be done!!
(realtek chips cannot be this expensive ,and they do what they are build for! )


Martin

Silverio Diquigiovanni

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Apr 18, 2013, 2:28:39 PM4/18/13
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I'm ready to purchase same A20 version and try them with many different LCD displays
and different touch screen digitizers.

At moment 2GB ram isn't my priority target but, depending by price, to have so much ram
could be very interesting because I could think to run 2 different OS in same CPU,
one for core (with iMX6 dual core that was possible). So android in first and a RTOS in
second.

Il giorno sabato 13 aprile 2013 18:10:05 UTC+2, Hans Harder ha scritto:

Uhrheber

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Apr 19, 2013, 5:30:55 AM4/19/13
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I don't think that I will buy one, the documentation of the Allwinner
chips is too sparse, and Allwinner doesn't seem to be willing or able to
support the community.
It's likely that some problems will never be solved.

Therefore I'm thinking of leaving the Allwinner chips behind and
changing to i.mx6.
Those seem to be well documented and supported.

Charudatt Uplap

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Apr 19, 2013, 7:20:37 AM4/19/13
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USB 3.0 would also be welcomed. 2GB and 1000M off Ethernet is good news.

Patrick Wood

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Apr 19, 2013, 2:31:18 PM4/19/13
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Will it be possible to run the A20 reliably at 1.2GHz?

Pedro Loureiro

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Apr 19, 2013, 7:42:56 PM4/19/13
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I think that a pin header for power and reset would be a simple and very good feature too.

Tom Cubie

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Apr 20, 2013, 1:25:02 AM4/20/13
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On Tue, Apr 16, 2013 at 9:14 PM, Dieter Reuter
<reuter...@googlemail.com> wrote:
> Tom,
>
> 1G Ethernet would be great.
> When do you expect, that the cubieboardii could be available?
> And what about a 2GByte version?

Yes, the founder of a Chinese startup focus on cloud and big data
visited our office, they wanted to use cubieboards in their project.
And they said the cpu performance is enough, no matter A10, A20, A31,
the 2GB ram is what they need. They use nosql database, which eat a
lot of ram. So, yes, there will be 2GB ram cubies.

Silverio Diquigiovanni

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Apr 20, 2013, 4:29:58 AM4/20/13
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2GB is a great step UP !

jose xavier

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Apr 20, 2013, 4:37:11 AM4/20/13
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Exelent News . Any idea when it will be avaiable?

B.R.
Jose Xavier 
Porto-Portugal


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Calvin Ngei

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Apr 30, 2013, 4:50:10 AM4/30/13
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Please add VGA support!
You do not have to develop the new A20 board from scratch.
Be quick!

在 2013年4月14日星期日UTC+8上午12时10分05秒,Hans Harder写道:

John Gentilin

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May 2, 2013, 8:23:48 PM5/2/13
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Snap the 2mm connector headers to grid.  I just tried to attach a 2mm prototype board and found that the connectors need to pitch inwards to make it thru the holes. Measuring center to center of the pins across the board, I get 52.8 mm.

Please no big bulky legacy connectors, base boards can provide that functionality if needed.

Tejinder Singh

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May 3, 2013, 7:36:41 PM5/3/13
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Lower overall height of cubieboard


1. SATA exit parallel to board instead of perpendicular, like this http://img.dxcdn.com/productimages/sku_19735_1.jpg

2. Half height ethernet.

3. USB ports alternated (one on each side of pcb instead 2, like headphone n mic socket)

The first point is the most important, because every sata connector coming out perpendicular adds at the bare minimum 10.5 mm more over the height of the connector soldered on to the board.

Making this horizontal will be a significant help in vertical space usage, after that if you can do the other 2 mods it'd bring the vertical profile of the cubieboard VERY low.

Option to not have the pinout headers soldered.


--Teji

Christian Sturm

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May 7, 2013, 6:14:09 AM5/7/13
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Dear Tom,

"Yes, the founder of a Chinese startup focus on cloud and big data .... A10, A20, A31...

lot of ram. So, yes, there will be 2GB ram cubies."

if you have a look at HP Moonshot attempt to create ARM based Microserverblades, and maybe have a look at Calxeda Arm Microserver Blades, i think it would be worth to think of an A31 based reduced(techincal/feature/priceing) lowcost Microserver-Board...
your Customer proves that this would is neccessary at the growing market of Arm-Servers/Blades.

I think you are the right person and its the right time to do a "feature"less Microserverboard maybe based on Cubieboard.
You are familar with Allwinner... and A31 is a really good lowcost Soc and i think at this time one of the most usable Socs for developing a "Cubieblade"-Microserverboard ;)

Some of us are thinking of Gigabit-Ethernet, an A31, some Gigs of Ram / SD-Card and nothing else. No HDMI, No USB, just good Soc and some space to store Data.
All an admin needs is an SSH able Image then.

With this minimum attempt of an A31 Serverboard you will have a most reduced board capable for Server usage... and i think there are some people outthere... Admins, Hobbyists and HomeautomationPeople would like such a reduced and performant Lowcost Variant of Cubieboard too.

I am really sure of it.

So maybe think about that Arm-Server Train leaving the trainstop actually... and think of doing such a train too :)
Market is increasing... and there are Raspberry Pi Serverfarms/Clouds, Mele Serverracks... time to get the community the better hardware they dream of... :)

Thank you! and with best regards,

Chris


Pawel Borecki

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May 7, 2013, 8:21:53 AM5/7/13
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Dont want to be rude for You but I belive we should leave this thread for A20 dev discussion.
Surely we can open another one for A31 development if this topic will be more popular (is it already ?).

dydy Dorin

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May 10, 2013, 7:04:37 AM5/10/13
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Any news here, on the next next version?
i know there a re few a10 left in some shops, but i want the dual core as i need to mount it in a CARPUTING multimedia sistem.
I also suggest a version only with hdmi and uSD conector in order to fit in low rise systems.

Manuel Quinteiro

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May 12, 2013, 5:48:09 AM5/12/13
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Wow, it looks like wishlist :)

It will be gread two ethernets ports.

Thaks for your work Cubie.

Markus Langer

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May 15, 2013, 7:45:21 AM5/15/13
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nice! i can't wait to have 1Gb ethernet interface on that.

Per-Mattias Nordkvist

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May 29, 2013, 3:46:09 PM5/29/13
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I could not agree more. Limiting the height would make this board fit better in different environments. 

Benjamin Henrion

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May 29, 2013, 3:59:40 PM5/29/13
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On Sat, Apr 13, 2013 at 6:21 PM, Tom Cubie <mr.h...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Sun, Apr 14, 2013 at 12:10 AM, Hans Harder <ha...@atbas.org> wrote:
>> Seems someone already brought out an A20 dev board
>>
>> http://www.hotmcu.com/marsboard-a20-dev-board-p-60.html?cPath=33
>
> Ha, they are quick. We have tested some A20 cubies, below is what works:
> NAND, USB host, USB otg, uSD, HDMI, VGA, 100M Ethernet, IR.

A20 does not has gigabit?

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Instead of explicitly seeking to sanction the patentability of
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Henrik Nordström

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May 29, 2013, 5:35:23 PM5/29/13
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ons 2013-05-29 klockan 21:59 +0200 skrev Benjamin Henrion:
> > Ha, they are quick. We have tested some A20 cubies, below is what works:
> > NAND, USB host, USB otg, uSD, HDMI, VGA, 100M Ethernet, IR.
>
> A20 does not has gigabit?

It does, but requires a bit more work to change to a Gbit PHY and
possibly related board changes as well.

Regards
Henrik

Rosimildo DaSilva

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May 29, 2013, 6:57:53 PM5/29/13
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Is there a spec of the A20 board, what has changed ? what is new, etc.

Any pin changes on the headers ?

Is battery added to the RTC ?

thanks.
R

dydy Dorin

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Jun 7, 2013, 6:01:27 AM6/7/13
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Olimex has a pretty complex board put for 65 euro + vat + shipping.

Tom, do you have a timeline for a20?

dydy Dorin

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Jun 7, 2013, 6:01:55 AM6/7/13
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Luis Matoso

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Jun 11, 2013, 11:45:11 PM6/11/13
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Any news??

Maurizio RTOSkit

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Jun 17, 2013, 7:43:10 AM6/17/13
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João Vilaça

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Jun 17, 2013, 8:10:40 AM6/17/13
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According to the specifications posted on the site its only a 1GB board... I was expecting more from what Tom posted in this thread. 

Will there be a later 2GB version?


Thanks


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Tom Cubie

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Jun 17, 2013, 12:33:52 PM6/17/13
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On Mon, Jun 17, 2013 at 8:10 PM, João Vilaça <jvi...@gmail.com> wrote:
> According to the specifications posted on the site its only a 1GB board... I
> was expecting more from what Tom posted in this thread.
>
> Will there be a later 2GB version?

Yes, we already have the new designed board samples back. I will show
photos in the G+ community later. There is a picture of the layout at
the Chinese forum:
http://cn.cubieboard.org/forum.php?mod=viewthread&tid=538&page=2#pid3442

>
>
> Thanks
>
>
> On Mon, Jun 17, 2013 at 12:43 PM, Maurizio RTOSkit <rto...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>>
>> is for sale on Miniand website:
>> https://www.miniand.com/products/Cubieboard%20A20%20Dev%20Board
>>
>>
>> On Saturday, 13 April 2013 18:10:05 UTC+2, Hans Harder wrote:
>>>
>>> Seems someone already brought out an A20 dev board
>>>
>>> http://www.hotmcu.com/marsboard-a20-dev-board-p-60.html?cPath=33
>>
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Martin Wild

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Jun 17, 2013, 1:23:11 PM6/17/13
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Wow! A20 Cubieboard ready to order!!

Thats great news!! I've waiting for this info since the thread started.
How big is the current batch ? is there a chance to get one within a month?
Since i am from germany, can someone tell if and when german retailers will get some a20 boards?

Regards, Martin

Alessandro Recchi

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Jun 17, 2013, 3:26:05 PM6/17/13
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when can we expect this new version?

ahha007

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Jun 17, 2013, 6:02:30 PM6/17/13
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Hi,i have some news, now we are manual soldering the pcb sample.
 

CubieTruck Hardware Features

 

1AllWinnerTech SOC A20ARM® Cortex™-A7 Dual-CoreARM® Mali400 MP2 Complies with OpenGL ES 2.0/1.1

21GB/2GB DDR3@480MHz

3HDMI&VGA 1080P display output on-board

410M/100M/1G Ethernet

5Wifi+BT wireless connection with antenna on-board

6SATA 2.0 interface support 2.5’ HDD(for 3.5’ HDD, only need another 12V power input)

7Memery solutionNAND+MicroSD or TSD+ MicroSD or 2*MicroSD

82 x USB HOST1 x OTG1 x SPDIF1 x IR4 x LEDs1 Headphone3 x Keys

9PowerDC5V @ 2.5A with HDDsupport Li-battery & RTC

1054 extended pins including I2S, I2C, SPI, CVBS, LRADC x2,UART, PS2, PWMx2, TS/CSI, IRDA, LINEIN&FMIN&MICIN, TVINx4 with 2.0 pitch connectors

11PCB size11cm *8cm*1.4mmvery suite for installing a 2.5’ HDD

 

 
 
2013-06-18

ahha007

发件人:Alessandro Recchi <ale.r...@gmail.com>
发送时间:2013-06-18 03:26
主题:Re: [cubieboard] Re: A20 version out
收件人:"cubieboard"<cubie...@googlegroups.com>
抄送:

Patrick Wood

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Jun 17, 2013, 10:05:42 PM6/17/13
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The problem we've had with onboard WiFi like the hackberry is we then need to spend a lot more to fcc certify the board. If we use a certified USB dongle it's a lot simpler.

Mat Oldaker

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Jun 18, 2013, 8:34:59 AM6/18/13
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Awesome news, I was hoping the next-gen Cubie would include a RTC and Lipo battery support, can't wait for this to be released will make a better base for my Carpc. Any news on ETA and Price for 1GB/2GB models?
The photo's on Miniand's website, looks nothing like the Layout posted on here.


George Ioakimedes

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Jun 18, 2013, 9:49:35 AM6/18/13
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I agree, this is a completely different board. Wasn't the A20 version going to be the same PCB but just the A10 replaced with the A20?

Bastiaan van den Berg

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Jun 18, 2013, 9:53:40 AM6/18/13
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On Tue, Jun 18, 2013 at 3:49 PM, George Ioakimedes <georg...@gmail.com> wrote:
I agree, this is a completely different board. Wasn't the A20 version going to be the same PCB but just the A10 replaced with the A20?


George Ioakimedes

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Jun 18, 2013, 11:25:32 AM6/18/13
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Yes, that is the one that someone informed me about yesterday but it does not show up on the official www.cubieboard.org web site. Now in this list we see a completely different A20 board.


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Henrik Nordström

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Jun 18, 2013, 6:19:47 PM6/18/13
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tis 2013-06-18 klockan 05:34 -0700 skrev Mat Oldaker:
> Awesome news, I was hoping the next-gen Cubie would include a RTC and
> Lipo battery support, can't wait for this to be released will make a
> better base for my Carpc.

There is RTC in the original Cubie (built in to A10/A20), but with no
battery support it will loose any sense of time if power is removed.

As long as power input is present the RTC will keep running even if the
Cubie is shutdown or rebooted.

Regards
Henrik

Rosimildo DaSilva

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Jun 18, 2013, 6:42:37 PM6/18/13
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It seems there are two boards.

a) The cubie as it is with an A20 processor in it. Nothing else changed.
b) "CubieTruck" that is a brand new board with the A20 processor.

R

theRat

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Jun 18, 2013, 6:49:44 PM6/18/13
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There are definitely 2 models that use an A20, the first one is the Cubieboard2 which is just a cubieboard with the A20 SOC.  I got one of those in the mail yesterday so they exist in the real world.  The second is the one above (the CubieTruck) which is a completely new board that is currently being developed.

Henrik Nordström

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Jun 18, 2013, 7:17:34 PM6/18/13
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tis 2013-06-18 klockan 06:02 +0800 skrev ahha007:

> 10、54 extended pins including I2S, I2C, SPI, CVBS, LRADC x2,UART,
> PS2, PWMx2, TS/CSI, IRDA, LINEIN&FMIN&MICIN, TVINx4 with 2.0 pitch
> connectors

Any reason why so few pins are routed to expansion connectors?

See Olimex A20 OLinuXino MICRO as a comparision (8cm*14cm), there
virtually every unused pin (and some more) is available on expansion
connectors
https://github.com/OLIMEX/OLINUXINO/tree/master/HARDWARE/A10-OLinuXino-MICRO

For a board with the amount of I/O connectivity as you plan for the
CubieTruck size is not that high priority imho. A little bigger is very
acceptable if it means better expansion possibilities.

Personally I even find the Olimex board missing some expansion pins, but
can't have everything..

Regards
Henrik

Patrick Wood

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Jun 18, 2013, 7:51:57 PM6/18/13
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I also received a Cubie2 yesterday.  The PBC is the same as the original cubie, right down to the date stamp (2012-09-09).  If the A20 SoC didn't have "A20" stamped on it, you couldn't tell the difference without booting them.

Boots up Linaro 13.04 with the 3.3.0 kernel off of NAND.  I managed to build and boot the 3.3.0 kernel from the cubieboard2/linux-sunxi git repository and Henrik's u-boot (thanks a whole bunch for this, by the way, Henrik -- we'd be sitting on our thumbs right now if it weren't for your hard work), and can run my existing project from the same root fs as the cubieboard/mk802/hackberry.  The only weird thing I've seen so far is the 8192cu driver doesn't complete its key exchange with the wifi router; AP scan works, however. 

I also disabled the CONFIG_ANDROID_PARANOID_NETWORK setting in the config file, since things like ntp, cups, and avahi fail unless you add them to the inet group.  Guess I got tired of looking for all the different services that don't run under root but still access the network.

ahha007

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Jun 18, 2013, 10:15:08 PM6/18/13
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I agree! if making some device like POS, li-battery is like a UPS.
 
2013-06-19

ahha007

发件人:Henrik Nordström <hen...@henriknordstrom.net>
发送时间:2013-06-19 06:19
主题:Re: [cubieboard] Re: A20 version out
收件人:"cubieboard"<cubie...@googlegroups.com>
抄送:"hans"<ha...@atbas.org>
 
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George Ioakimedes

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Jun 18, 2013, 10:53:54 PM6/18/13
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I hope to be receving some details soon on the CubieTruck and once received I'll start a new Baseboard design immediately so it can be launched at the same time as the CubieTruck. I'm definitely planning on RTC, better power supply management (think plug anything in get everything out), as well as a few ideas I had planned for the Big Brother Baseboard.

Now that some Cubieboard2s are in some capable hands hopefully the software side of things will be ready when the CubieTruck launches.


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Charudatt Uplap

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Jun 19, 2013, 5:38:52 AM6/19/13
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Checked up the spec's of the improved Cubieboard with lots of goodies and was impressed with it. 

I have a humble suggestion to add, why not raise the bar a little bit and have a A31 onboard, instead of the A20. 

Not sure of how much different would that be terms of production and cost difference. But that , IMHO , would be ultimate, as of date.

Also a uSD card would still be better than an SD version. Easy of availability. 

regards

Craig Hastie

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Jun 19, 2013, 3:08:16 PM6/19/13
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You can buy really cheap uSD to SD converters can't convert a SD to uSD though. I have lots of both cards and like to be able to use both so SD is best for flexibility.
Craig

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Maurizio RTOSkit

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Jun 19, 2013, 3:33:08 PM6/19/13
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On Wednesday, 19 June 2013 11:38:52 UTC+2, Charudatt Uplap wrote:
Checked up the spec's of the improved Cubieboard with lots of goodies and was impressed with it. 

I have a humble suggestion to add, why not raise the bar a little bit and have a A31 onboard, instead of the A20. 



CubieTruck:

As far as I know, there are still some kind of problem to liberalize SGX544MP2's drivers. 

so this would do that you can not install Linux on a board with A31.

In the linux-sunxi project have liberalized a source for A31, but I don't  know, if this solved the problem with the GPU.

But, I think that is good we have various options with  A10,  A20, A31 processors.

CubieBoard A20 version:
The option of cubieboard 1 with an A20 is optimal for testing the big.LITTLE processing power efficiency, MP, LPAE and others interesting options of the A7 core, 
 on a stable hardware like cubieboard 1 

regards

Charudatt Uplap

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Jun 19, 2013, 3:42:40 PM6/19/13
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cannot actually rely on a uSD to SD converter. I guess SD cards are obsolete and difficult to get. uSD are cheap and easy to get, thanks for the mobile revolution.

Just a doubt in mind. Have the cubieBoard team/developers dedicated them self to using Allwiner SOC's ?

Craig Hastie

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Jun 19, 2013, 4:22:00 PM6/19/13
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Tom previously worked for Allwiner, so has more knowledge/contacts there.

Also, why can't you rely upon converters they are simple mechanical converters and are available for less than £1 on eBay in the UK.

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Gabor Molnar

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Jun 19, 2013, 4:49:05 PM6/19/13
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Maybe because a converter is an unnecessary error source.

2013/6/19 Craig Hastie <craigj...@gmail.com>

Henrik Nordström

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Jun 19, 2013, 6:54:34 PM6/19/13
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ons 2013-06-19 klockan 20:08 +0100 skrev Craig Hastie:
> You can buy really cheap uSD to SD converters can't convert a SD to
> uSD though.

There is adapters that way too, but it gets rather ugly..

You can find much better performance/price ratio in SD over uSD, and
also larger sizes but unknown if sunxi supports >32MB cards.


> I have a humble suggestion to add, why not raise the bar a
> little bit and have a A31 onboard, instead of the A20.

There is barely any Linux support for A31 yet, and uncertain if there
will be Linux GPU drivers available.

Regards
Henrik


Bastiaan van den Berg

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Jun 19, 2013, 7:13:54 PM6/19/13
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On Thu, Jun 20, 2013 at 12:54 AM, Henrik Nordström <hen...@henriknordstrom.net> wrote:
There is barely any Linux support for A31 yet, and uncertain if there
will be Linux GPU drivers available.

What about the blob'ed ones? I just installed a SGX530 machine and was amazed at all the actually working and usable drivers that exist (but are not FOSS) 

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buZz