Gear for sport clip replacement?

[Patrick Dyson]

I have been getting reports of worn sport clips at prototype and I think that two need replacing, the left hand clips on 8 flake and prototype. They are both the captured style and will need cutting off.

I’d be happy to do the work if I can get the gear, is there still a gear cache box at reimers?

Patrick

[Chris Vinson]

Use the new top anchor hooks, they should last forever.  

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Thanks,

Chris Vinson

512.484.5796

[Joel Schopp]

Adam is the most up to date on gear replacement.  I copied him here in case he doesn't check the now mostly inactive ctmbolts email list. 

As for Vinny's suggestion to try their new top anchor hooks I would like to add a limited number at first as we do with any new fixed protection.  They seem structurally fine, but I am curious if after the rope wears a groove if there will be any weird edges or pinching.  Most likely everything will be kosher, but before we put them everywhere I'd like to get some deep wear on a few pairs.

Vinny, do you have some photos/videos of some with deep rope wear and how they function?  Would be cool to get a sandy rope and a machine that just consistently spins the rope wearing anchors.  Or somesuch.

-Joel

Patrick

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[Christopher Vinson]

The metal is hardened and has a rounder geometry to last longer.  They’ve been up in Owens and the red for over a year (super sandy/volcanic) with zero issues.

I think prototype and 8 flake are prime testing grounds to rest for wear in centex.

Not asking for widespread adoption.  :). Just wanna see how they hold up.

-V

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[Karl Guthrie]

It will take several years to start getting wear. That’s high tensile heat treated steel. Very hard. The hook’s body is round so there cant be any sharp edges

 

Karl

 

From: ctmb...@googlegroups.com <ctmb...@googlegroups.com> On Behalf Of Christopher Vinson
Sent: Friday, June 29, 2018 11:47 AM
To: ctmb...@googlegroups.com
Cc: Adam Mitchell <mitchel...@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Gear for sport clip replacement?

 

The metal is hardened and has a rounder geometry to last longer.  They’ve been up in Owens and the red for over a year (super sandy/volcanic) with zero issues.

 

I think prototype and 8 flake are prime testing grounds to rest for wear in centex.

 

Not asking for widespread adoption.  :). Just wanna see how they hold up.

 

-V

On Jun 29, 2018, at 11:21 AM, Joel Schopp <joel....@gmail.com> wrote:

Adam is the most up to date on gear replacement.  I copied him here in case he doesn't check the now mostly inactive ctmbolts email list. 

 

As for Vinny's suggestion to try their new top anchor hooks I would like to add a limited number at first as we do with any new fixed protection.  They seem structurally fine, but I am curious if after the rope wears a groove if there will be any weird edges or pinching.  Most likely everything will be kosher, but before we put them everywhere I'd like to get some deep wear on a few pairs.

 

Vinny, do you have some photos/videos of some with deep rope wear and how they function?  Would be cool to get a sandy rope and a machine that just consistently spins the rope wearing anchors.  Or somesuch.

 

-Joel

On Fri, Jun 29, 2018 at 11:10 AM, Patrick Dyson <patric...@gmail.com> wrote:

I have been getting reports of worn sport clips at prototype and I think that two need replacing, the left hand clips on 8 flake and prototype. They are both the captured style and will need cutting off.

I’d be happy to do the work if I can get the gear, is there still a gear cache box at reimers?

Patrick

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[Luke S]

A big concern of mine with any spring-gated top anchor is all the ones I've experienced where the gate gets corroded/super dirty and either 1) won't open or 2) won't shut or 3) both  I've had to really fight with some gates that were essentially immobile, almost causing me to all in a few pumped cases. And in the case of most 'biner-type sport anchors having a gate that doesn't close well means it's not nearly as strong (particularly if it's worn halfway through to boot).

The climb tech anchor looks very beefy http://www.climbtechgear.com/top-anchor-hook/

I like that the gate is just a safety rope keeper -- it obviously doesn't contribute to the strength. But that doesn't guarantee that it won't get harder and harder to open if the dissimilar metals corrode.

I don't like how short the gate is. 2 reasons:

1. In my experience with anchors of this type those short spring gates are very strong from the start. And their shortness means you don't have much leverage. That means if it gets a LITTLE more friction in the gate pivot points due to dirt or corrosion, it will get MUCH harder to open MUCH faster. 
2. If for some reason you need to open it to pull the rope out (instead of the usual use case in which you just pull the rope at the end), there's very little room for fingers AND rope. Add the additional difficulty from point #1 and you've got some real frustration.  Good to test it for these reasons.

I ran into a 2 point anchor once at a place in Italy that was sort of like this photo but had 2 adjacent bolts sharing one massive piece of iron rod bent with a "keeper" like this.  Once I figured out how it worked I was impressed by the lack of moving parts while maintaining safety.

Can Climb Tech invent something like this that's cheap, strong, no moving parts, and you only have to replace the part that wears?

Here's the discussion of this device on MP

https://www.mountainproject.com/forum/topic/109671131/strange-anchor

------------------

By the way I recently posted about some worn anchors at Seismic on badbolts.  Is anyone watching that?  Sadly I'd forgotten about my pictures which were 6 months old by the time I posted them and I haven't been back to see if it's been taken care of.

-Luke Stollings

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Luke
    Cell: 512 366-2716
    luke.c...@gmail.com

[Christopher Vinson]

They’re stainless wire gates.  There is a lip at the gate opening too, so the rope just slides right in when you’re pumped. We got you covered dude!

On Jun 29, 2018, at 12:04 PM, Luke S <luke.c...@gmail.com> wrote:

A big concern of mine with any spring-gated top anchor is all the ones I've experienced where the gate gets corroded/super dirty and either 1) won't open or 2) won't shut or 3) both  I've had to really fight with some gates that were essentially immobile, almost causing me to all in a few pumped cases. And in the case of most 'biner-type sport anchors having a gate that doesn't close well means it's not nearly as strong (particularly if it's worn halfway through to boot).

The climb tech anchor looks very beefy http://www.climbtechgear.com/top-anchor-hook/

I like that the gate is just a safety rope keeper -- it obviously doesn't contribute to the strength. But that doesn't guarantee that it won't get harder and harder to open if the dissimilar metals corrode.

I don't like how short the gate is. 2 reasons:

1. In my experience with anchors of this type those short spring gates are very strong from the start. And their shortness means you don't have much leverage. That means if it gets a LITTLE more friction in the gate pivot points due to dirt or corrosion, it will get MUCH harder to open MUCH faster. 
2. If for some reason you need to open it to pull the rope out (instead of the usual use case in which you just pull the rope at the end), there's very little room for fingers AND rope. Add the additional difficulty from point #1 and you've got some real frustration.  Good to test it for these reasons.

I ran into a 2 point anchor once at a place in Italy that was sort of like this photo but had 2 adjacent bolts sharing one massive piece of iron rod bent with a "keeper" like this.  Once I figured out how it worked I was impressed by the lack of moving parts while maintaining safety.

Can Climb Tech invent something like this that's cheap, strong, no moving parts, and you only have to replace the part that wears?

<image.png>

-Luke Stollings

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[Chris Vinson]

Also to answer this question:  

Can Climb Tech invent something like this that's cheap, strong, no moving parts, and you only have to replace the part that wears?

No.  

-CV

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Luke
    Cell: 512 366-2716
    luke.c...@gmail.com

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[Joel Schopp]

Yes, I think these anchors are awesome.  I think 8 flake and Prototype would be perfect testing grounds to see how they do longer term under regular use.  I expect they will be great longer term, just being cautious until we see them in action over a longer period before we want to use them everywhere.  After that Tortuga titanium glue in broke and the Fixe Draco anchors got corroded gate springs I am cautious.  I don't expect Climbtech gear to have issues, everything you all have made works great. 

[karl v]

I put up two sets of CT anchor hooks in Utah. Love 'em!

Luke, I hear you on the stiff gates from the old Fixe wire gate sport anchors... Yet there's nothing stopping you from placing your own draw at the anchor hanger instead of struggling with a stiff sport anchor. :) 

On Fri, Jun 29, 2018, 3:17 PM Joel Schopp <joel....@gmail.com> wrote:

Yes, I think these anchors are awesome.  I think 8 flake and Prototype would be perfect testing grounds to see how they do longer term under regular use.  I expect they will be great longer term, just being cautious until we see them in action over a longer period before we want to use them everywhere.  After that Tortuga titanium glue in broke and the Fixe Draco anchors got corroded gate springs I am cautious.  I don't expect Climbtech gear to have issues, everything you all have made works great. 

On Fri, Jun 29, 2018 at 11:47 AM, Christopher Vinson <chris.m...@gmail.com> wrote:

The metal is hardened and has a rounder geometry to last longer.  They’ve been up in Owens and the red for over a year (super sandy/volcanic) with zero issues.

I think prototype and 8 flake are prime testing grounds to rest for wear in centex.

Not asking for widespread adoption.  :). Just wanna see how they hold up.

-V

On Jun 29, 2018, at 11:21 AM, Joel Schopp <joel....@gmail.com> wrote:

Adam is the most up to date on gear replacement.  I copied him here in case he doesn't check the now mostly inactive ctmbolts email list. 

As for Vinny's suggestion to try their new top anchor hooks I would like to add a limited number at first as we do with any new fixed protection.  They seem structurally fine, but I am curious if after the rope wears a groove if there will be any weird edges or pinching.  Most likely everything will be kosher, but before we put them everywhere I'd like to get some deep wear on a few pairs.

Vinny, do you have some photos/videos of some with deep rope wear and how they function?  Would be cool to get a sandy rope and a machine that just consistently spins the rope wearing anchors.  Or somesuch.

-Joel

On Fri, Jun 29, 2018 at 11:10 AM, Patrick Dyson <patric...@gmail.com> wrote:

I have been getting reports of worn sport clips at prototype and I think that two need replacing, the left hand clips on 8 flake and prototype. They are both the captured style and will need cutting off.

I’d be happy to do the work if I can get the gear, is there still a gear cache box at reimers?

Patrick

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[karl v]

Forgot to mention, Patrick is the one that fixed the issue by using a monster bolt cutter to replaced the 8 Flake anchors the last time it needed it... Maybe 5-6 years ago? Thanks Patrick! Hopefully it doesn't need the same treatment this time. 

[Gmail]

Patrick I can get you some anchors for the future. I’m going to rebolt all of 8-flake so I can do the anchors for both of these easily then. This was the next route on my agenda anyway. The bolts are worse than the anchors anyway. I’ll get to these late next week. 

Adam Mitchell

Warrior's Way Trainer

AMGA Assistant Rock Guide

AMGA SPI Certified 

512-415-0804

Rock-About.com

[Patrick Dyson]

> Patrick I can get you some anchors for the future. I’m going to rebolt all of 8-flake so I can do the anchors for both of these easily then. This was the next route on my agenda anyway. The bolts are worse than the anchors anyway. I’ll get to these late next week.

What a rebolting development! Thanks Adam, you are a monster.

>> Forgot to mention, Patrick is the one that fixed the issue by using a monster bolt cutter to replaced the 8 Flake anchors the last time it needed it... Maybe 5-6 years ago? Thanks Patrick! Hopefully it doesn't need the same treatment this time.

I think that Joel replaced them, I just cut off the old ones with the bolt cutters from Tommy (i.e. it was a community effort unlike Adam’s one-man-rebolting-army). I have a new battery powered angle grinder that is itching.

Patrick