Queries on OCP (formerly SCJP)

[supa seva]

Hi All,

Would you be kind by answering the following questions for me:
1. Is it relevant in Cape Town(or South Africa) because all the
research i have done on the internet points to India. In your views
what are the advantages of having this certification.
2. For a student could this certification help me get a job as a java
programmer or at least an internship.
3.After writing and passing the exam i intend to find a company
somewhere where i can volunteer just to get experience. Any thoughts
on my idea.

Any additional comments would be greatly appreciated.

[Dr Heinz M. Kabutz]

Regards

Heinz
--
Dr Heinz M. Kabutz (PhD CompSci)
Author of "The Java(tm) Specialists' Newsletter"
Sun Java Champion
IEEE Certified Software Development Professional
http://www.javaspecialists.eu
Tel: +30 69 72 850 460
Skype: kabutz

On 11/10/11 12:10 PM, supa seva wrote:
> Hi All,
>
> Would you be kind by answering the following questions for me:
> 1. Is it relevant in Cape Town(or South Africa) because all the
> research i have done on the internet points to India. In your views
> what are the advantages of having this certification.
>

I have done two SCJP certifications. However, I have never needed them
for any of the jobs I've done. They helped me understand some things
better about Java (and I found some mistakes in the exam too ;-))

> 2. For a student could this certification help me get a job as a java
> programmer or at least an internship.
>

No, definitely not.

> 3.After writing and passing the exam i intend to find a company
> somewhere where i can volunteer just to get experience. Any thoughts
> on my idea.
>

I would recommend a BSc Computer Science at UCT. Do the Honours degree
once you finish your BSc.

An inexperienced programmer will cost the company more money than you
can imagine. So it is unlikely that you will find a company willing to
hire you, even if you work for free.

[Clinton Bosch]

I am sorry, I would have to disagree. Heinz, the guy wants to know if an SCJP would help him at the very least to get an internship at a software company, I am not sure that 'take 4 years and get a Comp Sci honours degree' is a very useful answer. We expect all our grads to write the exam in their first year and they would all agree that it is a very useful exam. I would agree that doing the exam alone without any practical development before or after would have limited value but I would guess that even you saw some value in the exam or you would not have written 2 of them?

My opinion is that it is a useful exam to break into the market, I interview many developers every year and for an inexperienced developer I would see this cert as a definite thumbs up.

Regards,

Clinton Bosch

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[Dr Heinz M. Kabutz]

I wrote the first one expecting it to help open up opportunities.  It didn't.  I wrote the second one for fun.

A little certificate is no replacement for a serious education.

If you need the SCJP / OCP, then it will be of no use to you.  My opinion strictly :-)

Regards

Heinz
-- 
Dr Heinz M. Kabutz (PhD CompSci)
Author of "The Java(tm) Specialists' Newsletter"
Sun Java Champion
IEEE Certified Software Development Professional
http://www.javaspecialists.eu
Tel: +30 69 72 850 460
Skype: kabutz 

Mere mortal

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[Moandji Ezana]

I have extremely little knowledge of the South African employment market, but here are some opinions anyway.

On Thu, Nov 10, 2011 at 12:10 PM, supa seva <42bc...@gmail.com> wrote:

Would you be kind by answering the following questions for me:
1. Is it relevant in Cape Town(or South Africa) because all the
research i have done on the internet points to India. In your views
what are the advantages of having this certification.

As Heinz said, at the very least you'll learn a lot of nitty-gritty details about the Java language. And since you're probably not a Java Champion, you'll probably learn more than he did. :)

 

3.After writing and passing the exam i intend to find a company
somewhere where i can volunteer just to get experience. Any thoughts
on my idea.

I wouldn't volunteer at a company unless they have a specific internship programme where you're sure to get proper mentorship and do worthwile things, rather than just being thrown into the meat-grinder or ignored.

If you don't care about not being paid, an alternative route could be to contribute to an open source project. Admittedly, finding one to contribute to isn't always easy (too big, too complicated, too "closed"...), but it can be a good way of showing that you can actually code and/or collaborate with others.

Ideally, the project would use tools commonly found in work environments, such as version control (SVN or Git) and build tools (Maven, continuous integration server).

Another possibility would be to write your own application. It could be web or desktop, but the advantage of a desktop application is that you don't have to host it, but can still use the libraries commonly found in a server-side application, such as Spring or Hibernate. It doesn't have to be an original idea or implementation, as long as it's somewhat useful or interesting to you.

Make the application small - really small - or you'll never finish it. Keeping it small also makes it easier to look good. If you're on Windows, you could do something with Java FX 2, for example. Host the code on Github or Google Code and use the app to sell yourself. Don't worry too much about the specific technologies, as nobody you'd want to work for would reject you because the great application you created on your own doesn't use the same frameworks as their crappy enterprise portal. The exceptions here would be the infrastructural stuff: version control and building are very portable across jobs and domains and essential to at least know the basics of.

Moandji

[Ewald Horn]

Hi.

The value of certification should not be weighed alone. I agree with
Heinz that for an experienced developer, certification is not a
requirement. As for graduates, yes, it might give some kind of edge,
but, personally, as a recruiter, I've never bothered with
certification as it doesn't tell me if the candidate can actually use
that knowledge. Showing the certification on the CV just makes me
include some questions from the test, to see if you actually
understood what you were studying.

I'd rather look at education and experience on the whole. Studied
drama for four years and then took a 3 month Java course? Not really a
developer and that might become a problem in the future. Developers
that I will take a chance on are the ones that have been dabbling in
it for years, preferably from school days, have some kind of
experience, note, not necessarily formal education, but do display the
ability to come up with logical solutions during an interview.

On a side-note - if you have any other form of education, getting an
internship might be possible, contact me off the list for more
information.

Best regards,
Ewald

[Chris]

I would say, definitely do the exam.

No, it may not count as heavily as work experience, but it will definitely improve your understanding of core Java. I have two Sun certifications, and while it may not have been the reason why I have been offered work in the past, it does show that you take an active interest in keeping your skills up-to-date.

You may (or may not) be surprised to know that the number of people who code, as if Java5/6 was never released is somewhat shocking. Doing your Sun cert will definatly make sure you do not fall into this category (along with good exposure with good developers).

I have found that it also helps you through the basic Java questioning you get in most standard interviews.

Good luck

Chris







You would not believe the 

[Chris]

I also second these comments made by Moandji

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[Mark van Wyk]

I third the comments by Mwanji.

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Mark van Wyk

Email: ma...@foxbomb.com

Mobile: 082 831 9227

Landline: 021 789 1427

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[Craig Newton]

The certification gets your foot in the door for an interview, it can also put you higher up on the interview list. I believe that it signifies that you have a competent level in Java programming not just related to the language, but also to problem solving in general.

[Dr Heinz M. Kabutz]

If you're going to go ahead and write it, you should probably do the 1Z1-803 - which is the associate exam for Java 7.  Might as well go for Java 7 if you're going to get certified.

http://education.oracle.com/pls/web_prod-plq-dad/db_pages.getpage?page_id=41&p_org_id=&lang=&p_exam_id=1Z0_803

Oracle did make it a requirement early in the year that if you wanted to become certified, you had to attend one of their classes.  It seems they've dropped that requirement.

And then once you've got that under your belt, do this one:

http://education.oracle.com/pls/web_prod-plq-dad/db_pages.getpage?page_id=41&p_org_id=&lang=&p_exam_id=1Z0_804

Regards

Heinz
-- 
Dr Heinz M. Kabutz (PhD CompSci)
Author of "The Java(tm) Specialists' Newsletter"
Sun Java Champion
IEEE Certified Software Development Professional
http://www.javaspecialists.eu
Tel: +30 69 72 850 460
Skype: kabutz 

[Soren Aalto]

On Thu, Nov 10, 2011 at 7:05 PM, Dr Heinz M. Kabutz <he...@javaspecialists.eu> wrote:

http://education.oracle.com/pls/web_prod-plq-dad/db_pages.getpage?page_id=41&p_org_id=&lang=&p_exam_id=1Z0_803

Oracle did make it a requirement early in the year that if you wanted to become certified, you had to attend one of their classes.  It seems they've dropped that requirement.

Somehow, "Oracle -- the Java company" doesn't have 

the right ring to it.  Especially noticing that the above URL

is provided to you courtesy of mod_plsql.

--
Soren Aalto
Director: ICT
University of Zululand

[Soren Aalto]

On Thu, Nov 10, 2011 at 3:34 PM, Chris <zeus...@gmail.com> wrote:

You may (or may not) be surprised to know that the number of people who code, as if Java5/6 was never released is somewhat shocking. Doing your Sun cert will

sort of sounds like me...but in my defense, that's cause I shifted

over to Groovy, which gave me the java5 feature set + a lot of 

other stuff.  I recommend Groovy...and am enjoying figuring out

Grails, yet secretly feeling guilty that it *completely hides* Hibernate

from me.

However, I am worrying about the groovy-on-CV vs employability 

issue, as it seems I'm having to tart myself up and start dating

potential employers again.

[Brian Silberbauer]

Having experience in other languages is as much of a plus as
certifications/degrees etc.. especially if you explored this in your
spare time. Nothing compares to an inquisitive mind in my opinion.

Brian

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