CS Name Lending

[Rahul Jain]

Hi,

Is it a good practice for a Company Secretary to lend his name in a company?

And also would like to know what is amount charged per month charged by a CS who is lending his name in a Pvt Company and in an unlisted company.

Regards,

Rahul Jain

[Ankita Karnani]

NO,

ITS A BAD PRACTICE AND LLEGAL

THESE DAYS INSTITUTE IS TAKING ACTIONS AGAINST CS WHO ARE LENDING THEIR NAMES. 

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[SAWITA RANI]

No, Its not allowed legally. Sometimes Companies does wrong work and ultimately CS has to suffer which is not know to him but becuase he/she signs balancesheet and officially shown. Hence, not recommended.

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/csmysore/CAPxLifiCchFx%3DL78F7i7J9rGzVGF6iSe1EQm-fzY%3DKyYHzCdGA%40mail.gmail.com.

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Thanks & regards,

CS SAWITA RANI
Email : savita....@gmail.com
           savita...@yahoo.co.in

[Rahul Jain]

What sorts of actions?

Any occurrence of such instance in recent time?

On Thu, Oct 17, 2019 at 4:02 PM Ankita Karnani <ankit...@gmail.com> wrote:

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[Purnima Bhasin]

Dear Members,

Even I don't understand how can the person lend his/ her name for the purpose of the Others activities.

As per my understanding the membership holder did hardworking for achieving it, cannot understand why the people follow such practices and making other members also follow it. 

Please do not lend your membership for any such activities whatever the circumstances or facts are.

 

Thanks to the institute who is taking against all such person and hoping such practices will be ceased soon.

On Thu, Oct 17, 2019 at 4:02 PM Ankita Karnani <ankit...@gmail.com> wrote:

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/csmysore/CAPxLifiCchFx%3DL78F7i7J9rGzVGF6iSe1EQm-fzY%3DKyYHzCdGA%40mail.gmail.com.

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Thanks and Regards,
Purnima Bhasin

(ACS, B.Com)

[Sitaram]

It is GOOD TO AVOID SUCH THINGS since they are illegal in the first place and can lead to serious repercussions to the CS. Even in companies where there is an active whole time CS it is tough to identify transactions such as money laundering etc, forget name lending.

Also spoils the reputation of the profession. We as professionals are responsible not only towards ourselves but the society in general , in our case, ensuring compliance. 

So, please void.

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[AmruthaShruthi CS]

Name lending is a very unethical and unprofessional practice. The Institute also takes very serious note of such instances. Please refrain from name lending.

On Thursday, October 17, 2019, Purnima Bhasin <cspurn...@gmail.com> wrote:

Dear Members,

Even I don't understand how can the person lend his/ her name for the purpose of the Others activities.

As per my understanding the membership holder did hardworking for achieving it, cannot understand why the people follow such practices and making other members also follow it. 

Please do not lend your membership for any such activities whatever the circumstances or facts are.

 

Thanks to the institute who is taking against all such person and hoping such practices will be ceased soon.

On Thu, Oct 17, 2019 at 4:02 PM Ankita Karnani <ankit...@gmail.com> wrote:

NO,

ITS A BAD PRACTICE AND LLEGAL

THESE DAYS INSTITUTE IS TAKING ACTIONS AGAINST CS WHO ARE LENDING THEIR NAMES. 

On Thu, Oct 17, 2019 at 3:59 PM Rahul Jain <csrahul...@gmail.com> wrote:

Hi,

Is it a good practice for a Company Secretary to lend his name in a company?

And also would like to know what is amount charged per month charged by a CS who is lending his name in a Pvt Company and in an unlisted company.

Regards,

Rahul Jain

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--

Thanks and Regards,
Purnima Bhasin

(ACS, B.Com)

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Regards,

Amrutha Iyengar

Practicing Company Secretary

#70, "Sapthagiri", 1st Cross,

5th Main, Padmanabhanagar

Bangalore - 560 070

Mobile: +91-9108620004

Office: 080 - 2669 3284

[Ankita Karnani]

NO,

ITS A BAD PRACTICE AND ILLEGAL

THESE DAYS INSTITUTE IS TAKING ACTIONS AGAINST CS WHO ARE LENDING THEIR NAMES. 

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/csmysore/CAJg04fs9T9ugVS9NMxTQV5xDg0g5c2yYERhn4Sef4PbLR68RBA%40mail.gmail.com.

[jm sundaram]

Hai Rahul

Just remove the idea of name lending from your mind, and do not advise others also to do that.  It is a sin.

sundaram jm PCS

On Thu, Oct 17, 2019 at 4:15 PM AmruthaShruthi CS <csamruth...@gmail.com> wrote:

Name lending is a very unethical and unprofessional practice. The Institute also takes very serious note of such instances. Please refrain from name lending.

On Thursday, October 17, 2019, Purnima Bhasin <cspurn...@gmail.com> wrote:

Dear Members,

Even I don't understand how can the person lend his/ her name for the purpose of the Others activities.

As per my understanding the membership holder did hardworking for achieving it, cannot understand why the people follow such practices and making other members also follow it. 

Please do not lend your membership for any such activities whatever the circumstances or facts are.

 

Thanks to the institute who is taking against all such person and hoping such practices will be ceased soon.

On Thu, Oct 17, 2019 at 4:02 PM Ankita Karnani <ankit...@gmail.com> wrote:

NO,

ITS A BAD PRACTICE AND LLEGAL

THESE DAYS INSTITUTE IS TAKING ACTIONS AGAINST CS WHO ARE LENDING THEIR NAMES. 

On Thu, Oct 17, 2019 at 3:59 PM Rahul Jain <csrahul...@gmail.com> wrote:

Hi,

Is it a good practice for a Company Secretary to lend his name in a company?

And also would like to know what is amount charged per month charged by a CS who is lending his name in a Pvt Company and in an unlisted company.

Regards,

Rahul Jain

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Thanks and Regards,
Purnima Bhasin

(ACS, B.Com)

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Regards,

Amrutha Iyengar

Practicing Company Secretary

#70, "Sapthagiri", 1st Cross,

5th Main, Padmanabhanagar

Bangalore - 560 070

Mobile: +91-9108620004

Office: 080 - 2669 3284

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     Sundaram jm

Company Secretary - Practising

RHR & Associates

No 5, II nd  floor, 7th cross, 22nd main,

HSR Layout, Sector 1, Bangalore 560102.

Phone: 9845875796/8217596700

[Rahul Jain]

I see the responses incase of name lending is to avoid such practice, which I totally agree with.

But I heard in real scenario, this  practice is undertaken through most of the PCS who also charge for the same. Is it true?

 

On Thu, Oct 17, 2019 at 4:15 PM AmruthaShruthi CS <csamruth...@gmail.com> wrote:

Name lending is a very unethical and unprofessional practice. The Institute also takes very serious note of such instances. Please refrain from name lending.

On Thursday, October 17, 2019, Purnima Bhasin <cspurn...@gmail.com> wrote:

Dear Members,

Even I don't understand how can the person lend his/ her name for the purpose of the Others activities.

As per my understanding the membership holder did hardworking for achieving it, cannot understand why the people follow such practices and making other members also follow it. 

Please do not lend your membership for any such activities whatever the circumstances or facts are.

 

Thanks to the institute who is taking against all such person and hoping such practices will be ceased soon.

On Thu, Oct 17, 2019 at 4:02 PM Ankita Karnani <ankit...@gmail.com> wrote:

NO,

ITS A BAD PRACTICE AND LLEGAL

THESE DAYS INSTITUTE IS TAKING ACTIONS AGAINST CS WHO ARE LENDING THEIR NAMES. 

On Thu, Oct 17, 2019 at 3:59 PM Rahul Jain <csrahul...@gmail.com> wrote:

Hi,

Is it a good practice for a Company Secretary to lend his name in a company?

And also would like to know what is amount charged per month charged by a CS who is lending his name in a Pvt Company and in an unlisted company.

Regards,

Rahul Jain

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--

Thanks and Regards,
Purnima Bhasin

(ACS, B.Com)

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--

Regards,

Amrutha Iyengar

Practicing Company Secretary

#70, "Sapthagiri", 1st Cross,

5th Main, Padmanabhanagar

Bangalore - 560 070

Mobile: +91-9108620004

Office: 080 - 2669 3284

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[Rahul Jain]

Sir,

I am asking just for information purpose and also to get other opinion

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[V Kartik]

I don't understand how can PCS resort to it since a person holding COP, cannot do so since he takes an undertaking before applying for COP. 

Whether the person is in employment or practice, it's illegal to resort to such practices.

Kartik

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[Srinath Sai]

It's become difficult for experienced CSs to even land a job by getting that 'elusive' job offer, let alone a good salary package, for the years of experience that they have put in, as not just the corporates-the 'outsider', but even the insiders, namely the PCSs and the ICSI, who ought be aware of the unsurmountable rigour, dedication and hard work that a CS has shown over several years before becoming one today, themselves don't seem to value an experienced CS for all of his/her experience, as everybody, more or less, seem to be extremely fond of only freshers,semi-qualifieds or CS members having upto 2 to 3 years experience (as if one just retires immediately after putting in 3 years of service) for the obvious reasons which is cost reduction. Making matters worse is the growing preponderance of a 'rank outsider' LLB qualification- an easy-to-pass, graduate-level qualification, for most of all company secretarial appointments if not all of them.(Thank God for this small concession. We are somewhat lucky!) Neither the BCI nor the ICAI, two other competent bodies in our country, would ever have tolerated an outside qualification to even get a glance let alone gaining dominance or overtly inflencing their lawyer or chartered accountant appointments respectively, thereby ensuring the interests of their members is wholly safegaurded. Pray that ICSI soon takes a cue from these other bodies that have always put their members' interests before their own, for the sake of this small group of hapless members(just about 50 thousand CSs our country has, unlike crores of engineers or a million lawyers or lakhs of chartered accountants and they can't keep waiting endlessly FOR A MERE JOB) who also truly deserve every bit of opportunity as is available to their counterparts, which is A JOB THAT CAN TRULY MATERIALIZE AS AND WHEN ONE NEEDS IT. For the kind of uncertain, risky job that a CS is subjected to, all through his/her career, he/she may be frequently encountering a forced situation to quit his/her current job and start looking his/her next job. But A DODGY/SHAM RECRUITMENT PROCESS that is playing out in the CS job market today poses a serious risk of survival for a CS member, and the consequent erosion of his/her market worth due to prolonged joblessness, making the CS feel cheated as what they have gotten themselves into, after years of struggle, without any way out or even a way forward to continue their career, as the current job is also too risky to be in. CSs surely don't deserve the treatment that they are made to face today, for all the pain that they have gone through, not just as a Student trying to clear a double whammy, low pass percentage, grouping penalty exam pattern but also as a Member facing the day-to-day risk on the job, and fighting to get A SINGLE JOB for the next one, in the job market as well.

[Prathap]

Just to share my view on the same. Correct me if wrong.

Before calling it a wrong practice or illegal or unethical, we need to think about role of a CS in a mere 5 cr capital small company with nothing more than annual report preparation and event base form filing and conducting 4 paper meeting in a company. So the Board question your designation and ask your returns and worthiness for a company. Instead we have to expand our working area as detailed by our ICSI and look for better opportunities. If somenone seeks your name for lending you accept initially and don't sit in home, just go to office and work for sometime and grow your knowledge and working area and quit the company if not worth your knowledge or experience. Nowadays it is hard to find a job in many remote places and we based on our commitments accept this offers. Lets say you  are employed and willing to work (if not 8 hrs a day) and utilise your time and work on other areas. Recently i read one article about the scope of CS with other profession. I am sharing it for all our fellow members exposure.

https://blog.ipleaders.in/ca-cs-cost-accountant-lucrative-opportunity/

On Fri, Oct 18, 2019 at 4:23 AM Srinath Sai <saisr...@gmail.com> wrote:

It's become difficult for experienced CSs to even land a job by getting that 'elusive' job offer, let alone a good salary package, for the years of experience that they have put in, as not just the corporates-the 'outsider', but even the insiders, namely the PCSs and the ICSI, who ought be aware of the unsurmountable rigour, dedication and hard work that a CS has shown over several years before becoming one today, themselves don't seem to value an experienced CS for all of his/her experience, as everybody, more or less, seem to be extremely fond of only freshers,semi-qualifieds or CS members having upto 2 to 3 years experience (as if one just retires immediately after putting in 3 years of service) for the obvious reasons which is cost reduction. Making matters worse is the growing preponderance of a 'rank outsider' LLB qualification- an easy-to-pass, graduate-level qualification, for most of all company secretarial appointments if not all of them.(Thank God for this small concession. We are somewhat lucky!) Neither the BCI nor the ICAI, two other competent bodies in our country, would ever have tolerated an outside qualification to even get a glance let alone gaining dominance or overtly inflencing their lawyer or chartered accountant appointments respectively, thereby ensuring the interests of their members is wholly safegaurded. Pray that ICSI soon takes a cue from these other bodies that have always put their members' interests before their own, for the sake of this small group of hapless members(just about 50 thousand CSs our country has, unlike crores of engineers or a million lawyers or lakhs of chartered accountants and they can't keep waiting endlessly FOR A MERE JOB) who also truly deserve every bit of opportunity as is available to their counterparts, which is A JOB THAT CAN TRULY MATERIALIZE AS AND WHEN ONE NEEDS IT. For the kind of uncertain, risky job that a CS is subjected to, all through his/her career, he/she may be frequently encountering a forced situation to quit his/her current job and start looking his/her next job. But A DODGY/SHAM RECRUITMENT PROCESS that is playing out in the CS job market today poses a serious risk of survival for a CS member, and the consequent erosion of his/her market worth due to prolonged joblessness, making the CS feel cheated as what they have gotten themselves into, after years of struggle, without any way out or even a way forward to continue their career, as the current job is also too risky to be in. CSs surely don't deserve the treatment that they are made to face today, for all the pain that they have gone through, not just as a Student trying to clear a double whammy, low pass percentage, grouping penalty exam pattern but also as a Member facing the day-to-day risk on the job, and fighting to get A SINGLE JOB for the next one, in the job market as well.

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[Naveen Kumar]

Good idea go for name lending...definitely the person who are involve in name lending achieve new heights in d life....

Best of luck for future endeavor..... everyone plz clap for those who r involve in name lending... 👏      

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​Thanks & Regards

CS Naveen Kumar

(Practicing Company Secretary)

Mo. No. - 9452865114

[Bijay Kumar]

it is an illegal practise and few companies and practising CS are resorting to this. they are exploiting the situation to their advantage. dont fall prey to such offers. politely refuse. 

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[Vikas Dhyani]

height of unemployment 

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Regards

CMA Vikas Dhyani

[Devadhipati]

We should think from the perspective of the company as well.

An average fresher CS has little to no exposure in accounting and taxation. They are good in corporate laws only. Many of them whom I've interviewed show scant interest in acquiring skills in accounting and taxation as well.

So for a company with no company law work or only event based and annual filing work, why will he shell out more money to hire a CS in whole-time employment? How will he account those costs when he will do his business?

Either the limit of mandatory hiring of CS should be raised, or the CS themselves have to get acquainted with accounting and taxation, so that the company can derive all round work from them and it will make sense paying that much salary to them.

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[Premnarayan Tripathi]

True, but unless one gets job, how he would be able to understand or put efforts in other dept. like account, tax, finance, legal etc.

 

In my view, the CS must show willingness to take up such challenges and the employer can take risk of appointing fresh CS with such commitment. Anyway, normally companies have 6 months’ probation period, if the CS in unable to deliver, he’d face the heat….if he deliver, unlimited scope….

 

Name lending kills the very purpose of our August Profession…….Everyone should refrain from it.

 

Regards,

 

CS. Premnarayan Tripathi

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[Devadhipati]

A mere 12 month or 15 month Management Training is insufficient. Annual filing season comes only once and that time is too less. The training for the students should be of minimum 24 months, even for professionally qualified.

The ICSI is doing its part to add additional open book exams on Direct Taxation. For members, it has GST Certificate Courses.

Name lending is unethical, but one must think from both sides. There is a big opportunity for CS in taxation, at least while working as a CS of a company.

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[Srinath Sai]

If the way forward for a CS is to don a generalist role by handling accounting, taxation, legal, etc., in addition to being a company secretary, the three bodies ICSI, BCI or ICAI, that currently offer their own 'mostly mutually exclusive courses' can merge and become one body and start offering a 'single' rigourous course so that gullible aspirants to the CS course don't get disillusioned after spending several years completing a rigourous course when they are sidelined for not having done a 3 year full-time LLB course The present situation for a CS is completely unacceptable as he/she is being asked to also do a 3 year-full time LLB program when being tested already with a rigourous CS course. If this is going to be the way forward where the corporates, emboldened by the bad precedent being set by the government itself, is preferring only those CS members having the combo qualification of CS+LLB for all of their company secretarial appointments, despite the Companies Act not stipulating any such additional qualification requirement, then the best thing that the Institute ICSI can do is, simply merge unto BCI (as the LLB qualification, in today's times, seems to have more say than the CS qualification itself in selecting the candidate for company secretarial appointment)and start offering the combo course of CS+LLB, as today, experienced CS members not having an LLB qualification are left languishing with a bleak future of joblessness, unable to land a single job, let alone a decent salary for mere survival(difficult to imagine such a thing to be happening, when there are just about 30000 company secretaries in employment in the whole country today) as they have slowly fallen out of favour with the corporates and the government, and it's absurd to suggest them to go and spend 3 years full-time in a law school just to get that LLB qualification in order to stay competitive in the job market, when one can never use the LLB qualification to also work as the company's lawyer when one is already functioning as it's whole-time company secretary (for assistant CS jobs, qualification don't matter as law doesn't stipulate any qualification requirement for them).So, in a sense, an LLB qualification doesn't help a company secretary beyond just giving some knowledge which one can always learn even without spending 3 years full-time in a classroom. Hope ICSI opens its eyes to this absurdity of the corporates setting a new normal in this professional space, as it's become a question of survival for several of it's experienced CS members who got into this profession from wide-ranging disciplines, not necessarily LLB, and they all feel cheated now as they are today, left to fend for themselves in fighting for that one single job after having left their risky job, with the ICSI having turned into a mere spectator/bystander from the days of being a strong, regulatory body. Everyone is thoroughly engrossed in technical discussions but there's no one to raise a voice about this real plight of experienced company secretaries who are getting shunned by the PCSs (insiders) and the corporates (outsiders) alike and they are now helplessly caught up with just this CS qualification and nowhere to go.

[ACSsangeetha Laxmi]

My only question to all d professionals is that when there is no paid up capital limit or another limit to appoint a statutory auditor,  why such limit to appoint company secretary. The company also does not think twice to appoint a Audior but to appoint a CS so many parameters come into picture like salary,  work etc... This is actually causing problem to many CS in employment.  Also a practical aspect is that mostly CS reports to CFO or d finance head.. So,  d finance head may not want an outsider to actually they use d work poke in their work.. So how do u justify d scenario when CS us ready to take up challenge or extra work but not given an opportunity.  Already CS is hvg much less salary in d market n they are getting jobs just now.. Now if v raise up d limits does it not effect people who are already in employment?? They by raising issues to them.. 

On Mon, Oct 21, 2019, 1:06 PM Srinath Sai <saisr...@gmail.com> wrote:

If the way forward for a CS is to don a generalist role by handling accounting, taxation, legal, etc., in addition to being a company secretary, the three bodies ICSI, BCI or ICAI, that currently offer their own 'mostly mutually exclusive courses' can merge and become one body and start offering a 'single' rigourous course so that gullible aspirants to the CS course don't get disillusioned after spending several years completing a rigourous course when they are sidelined for not having done a 3 year full-time LLB course The present situation for a CS is completely unacceptable as he/she is being asked to also do a 3 year-full time LLB program when being tested already with a rigourous CS course. If this is going to be the way forward where the corporates, emboldened by the bad precedent being set by the government itself, is preferring only those CS members having the combo qualification of CS+LLB for all of their company secretarial appointments, despite the Companies Act not stipulating any such additional qualification requirement, then the best thing that the Institute ICSI can do is, simply merge unto BCI (as the LLB qualification, in today's times, seems to have more say than the CS qualification itself in selecting the candidate for company secretarial appointment)and start offering the combo course of CS+LLB, as today, experienced CS members not having an LLB qualification are left languishing with a bleak future of joblessness, unable to land a single job, let alone a decent salary for mere survival(difficult to imagine such a thing to be happening, when there are just about 30000 company secretaries in employment in the whole country today) as they have slowly fallen out of favour with the corporates and the government, and it's absurd to suggest them to go and spend 3 years full-time in a law school just to get that LLB qualification in order to stay competitive in the job market, when one can never use the LLB qualification to also work as the company's lawyer when one is already functioning as it's whole-time company secretary (for assistant CS jobs, qualification don't matter as law doesn't stipulate any qualification requirement for them).So, in a sense, an LLB qualification doesn't help a company secretary beyond just giving some knowledge which one can always learn even without spending 3 years full-time in a classroom. Hope ICSI opens its eyes to this absurdity of the corporates setting a new normal in this professional space, as it's become a question of survival for several of it's experienced CS members who  got into this profession from wide-ranging disciplines, not necessarily LLB, and they all feel cheated now as they are today, left to fend for themselves in fighting for that one single job after having left their risky job, with the ICSI having turned into a mere spectator/bystander from the days of being a strong, regulatory body. Everyone is thoroughly engrossed in technical discussions but there's no one to raise a voice about this real plight of experienced company secretaries who are getting shunned by the PCSs (insiders) and the corporates (outsiders) alike and they are now helplessly caught up with just this CS qualification and nowhere to go.

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[K VENGETRAO Company Secretary and IP]

ICSI is not having  ACCOUNTS PAPER in final[Professional level] exam, whereas ICAI in course of time had added   lot of law papers, like CS course, in its stream  though it core area is  Accounts But ICSI has not done it in spite of suggestion made to it by many members like me.  CS can enjoy merit in corporate world only  if he handles finance &,taxation besides secretarial function, If you hesitate and want to confine only with  filling of Returns and minutes preparation, you are loosing your importance. 

Further there is no exemption or  thresh hold limit of capital  for compulsory audit of cos under the Companies Act . So ICSI must insist the Govt to have similar provision for compulsory Secretarial Audit of all cos. Compulsory employment shall be made optional, because in 5 decades compulsory appointment has not changed any merit/status to CS profession in big way..    

CS IP VENGETRAO K, 

Cell:9840112546           

[Manish Saini]

What action does the ICSI takes on a CS who is in job in a private limited company and Also lended name in a public limited and moreover done a regular course while in the training period of CS course.

I'm of the view that matter to be reported to ICSI disciplinary committee.

Need to know the way the matter to be addressed to ICSI.

Seeking views from the fellow members of the group.

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[Hemant Kothari]

Hello Fellow Members,

Ideally discussion on name lending must itself not come up in any professional forum, except as an update of disciplinary action. Exploring opportunities in name lending can result in being on rolls of noncompliant or even a sham company. Each one has to decide how important the degree is for him/her. Some prefer diamonds in cap, soome can put on footwear too. There is no limit to human intelligence. 

Secondly, I have been asking ICSI RCM to conduct a series of webinars on - Code of conduct/Ethics(CoE), the actions taken (without naming the professional) and what is the variation in CoE of all three institutions. Silence is their only reply. 

Coming to qualification of Law (LLB/LLM, etc), I can vouch that a CS(CA13,FEMA,SEBI) without Law +/Accounts is incomplete at least in the corporate world, also has an added advantage in practice. But some members have decided that they will restrict it only to CA13, many think filing on MCA is enough. Artificial Intelligence will come faster than expected, most repetitive and duplicating jobs will vanish. Continuous learning can prevent us from becoming obsolete. 

I agree with Shri Srinath Sai, Shri Manish Saini, Shri CS IP VENGETRAO K. 

Govt can merge all the three institutes, bring under independent NFRA and let members choose the desired specialization after they have pursued the common level 1 exam where all the three streams syllabus is covered.  

Regards,

CS Hemant Kothari

Cell 884 9596 204

Compliance Oriented Growth

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[Bhavani Prasad]

There are many CS who are lending name for a few bucks.

Few instances have been brought to ICSI and they have taken action on them,in spite of this the situation hasn't changed much

Regards

CS Bhavani Prasad C N
Company Secretary

098665 19059

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[Praveen singh]

I reported one of the case with the council however, no action has been taken till date. 

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[Raju Balodi]

Name lending is an offense and COMPANIES encouraging such activities must be punished rigorously. ICSI should focus more towards employment for members. Otherwise a day will come when this profession will dissolved from the market.

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[Manish Saini]

Hello Pravin Ji,

What's the procedure to report ?

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