Household wiring, outlet, power question

[spliceminer]

@hashpuppy and ALL

Parang meron tayong di na-ididiscuss dito at nakalimutan natin.

Ang OUTLET/WIRING natin sa bhay.

Currently i have 2GPU rig sa bahay (can go up to 4 GPU, bka this week or next depends sa groupbuy natin and sa risers)

take a look this and this

After ko mabuo ang 4GPU setup, I'm planning to go more, 6-7GPU rig,

My qestion is, does my(pati narin kayo) outlet can support this setup?

Please enlighten us how much load normal household wirings can support?

also what are the things to be considered?

kkyanin ba ng outlet ko yung 1 4GPU + 7GPU?

Salamat..

Saving is good, Giving is beyond Good :)

DOGE: DK5G3hZ2m5GBgoJgYJBNxmyjNgf4pwD8Xp

WDC:WWtvK1DJU1J3cELYSdiXCUZkSYCqh6Cm2q

[lloyd_an...@yahoo.com.ph]

@thebackground

For finding the maximum power you can use, you can check your house main circuit breaker. 

Check for the current ratings for each circuit then find the one where you place your miners. 

As for the outlets, almost all available power outlets sold here are rated for 10Amps, this should be around 2.2Kw. 

Ex. main circuit breaker has a capacity of 50 Amps (Typical household) this can support up to a maximum of 11Kilowatts of power.

The mining rigs are installed in the garage, and the circuit breaker for that area is 30 Amps, so maximum of 6.6kw yung pwede sa garage mo. Assuming, there are no other heavy loads na powered on sa loob ng bahay mo.

For the power consumption, we can use 2 methods. First, check current/wattage readings using a digital meter or 2nd, you can compute the power by checking typical power usage of the available components you have.

1st. method Reading

This method can be read using Clamp meter or a watt meter. The clamp meters are available sa handyman/ace hardware. The power consumption meter on the other hand is only found at electronics store. So far, the only one I've found was at Deeco at Farmer's Cubao. 

For the clamp meter, you must have an extension cable with the 2 wires separated.For me,  I made my extension cables para sure akong mataas yung capacity. Once hiwalay na yung wires mo, put any of the 2 wires (But not both) inside the clamp, set the Dial to the ~A(AC Current) and look at the readings. This is the total current for all the load using that wire. To find out the power consumption, just multiply it by 230 and this will be your power in watts. (I used 230 because even if the voltages are below 230, the voltage drops can be attributed to the resistance of the wire and would still be a part of your electric bill).

For the watt meter, isaksak mo lang dun yung mining rig mo, then run on full load. 

2nd method estimating:

For a typical setup, a 7950 uses 190-240 watts, 280x uses 230-260 watts, 290 250-300 watts. The lower part i used was for the undervolted ones, the higher ones are for the stock voltages. We'll use the stock voltages as reference kasi 

ito ang fallback ng drivers nyo once na mag crash yung undervolt GPU mo, or nakalimutan mo i-set. And dapat i-account natin ang worst case parati para safe.

Now if you use 4x 7950 and a low powered procie, this should be around 1kw,

Typical efficiencies near 100% load for 80+ rated PSUs are as follows (These are just typical values I've found on the net, yours may vary pero with a +/- 1-2% difference)

Bronze 85, Gold 88, Platinum 90. (I haven't checked any silver ones yet sorry)

If you used Bronze, your AC Load would be near 1176W, Gold 1136 Platinum 1111.  (Note: If you used platinum instead of Bronze, you can save up to 700 pesos per month per 1Kw Load)

Now, for that kind of load, you can place up to a  MAXIMUM of 8 on a single outlet (10A), assuming there are no other loads (electric fan, etc). 

If you're still unsure, you can always make a new circuit/extension directly from your circuit breaker to your designated mining rig area to act as a dedicated power line.

HTH

 

[lloyd_an...@yahoo.com.ph]

Correction pala, I meant a maximum of 8 7950s, not 8 of 4x7950 rigs :D

[thebackground]

Thanks boss, 
I need those devices na pang measure.
Sa ngayon ang nka connect dito sa outlet ko is 
Mining rig  + 40w electrifan + gaming PC (di ko nagagamit n sa gaming gawa ng busy sa paagbabasa basa)
and if im not mistaken, itong outlet ko di dumadaan sa breaker nmin.
may time na nagkasunod dito sa amin banda, then normal practice is pptaying daw ang breaker,
nung pinatay ang breaker, yung ilaw ko sa kwarto at TV ko umaandar pa ahhahah
di ko na ma trace wiring nito gawa ng may kisame.
tingin ko the best way is to create another outletdirectly from new breaker.

thanks

[Man Paxz]

guys in terms of power consumption para medyo maka minus sa kuryente...

pwede kayong mag install ng tightvnc, para kahit tanggalin or i-off nyo yung monitor hindi titigil yung pagma-mine.
tska make sure nyo rin na nakadisable yung screensaver, pati yung sa power options na "turn of display" and "put the computer to sleep" dapat naka disable/never..

[lorna lacson]

sir can you include po tungkol sa power supply? nalilito ako kung anong power supply bbilhin ko... thanks

[lloyd_an...@yahoo.com.ph]

@lorna, depende kasi sa power budget and financial budget mo.

Kung kelangan minimal lang ang space, pick high capacity PSUs, at least GOLD. Usually, ang trusted na brands ay Seasonic, thermaltake, Corsair.

Sa power budget, depende sa type ng GPU yung gagamitin mo. 

Here are my typical budget for these type of cards,

7950 - 250w

280x - 270w

290   - 300w

Although maraming nagsasabi na mas mababa yung nakukuha nilang power consumption sa mga card na to,

baka na-tweak na nila kasi yun or na undervolt. Yung, binigay ko, medyo safe to say na yan na yung stock loads nyan (No overclock/overvolt).

Before buying, mas maganda magtanong tanong ka muna. Ask the shops kung anong available, then find reviews online. Yung iba kasi,

minsan maganda nga yung brand, pero yung particular na model medyo talo. Meron namang iba, na hindi sikat yung brand, pero 

maganda naman yung performance.

For me, I bought FSP and ANTEC. 700watts GOLD ng FSP nasa 4.3k lang Semi modular.  Yung 650Watts Platinum ng ANTEC nasa 4k lang. 

Yung 700watts na yan, pwede nang magpatakbo ng 2x7950 + Mobo + Procie na rig.

Yung 600watts, pang auxilliary power supply lang. I mean, yung 8pin and 6 pin connector, pati na yung powered riser, sa kanila na nanggagaling., they can power up to 2 cards. each.

So far, nasiraan pa lang ako ng PSU ay Cougar. Ran it for 3hrs then namatay from thermal protection. Pasok naman sa power limit yung nilagay ko. Already 

exchanged it for another one, different brand. And my rig is running okay ever since.

[lorna lacson]

thanks po sa info..

[jono...@gmail.com]

Hello friends,

I have 2 questions po:

1. Saan po nakaka bili ng powered pcie riser cable ? (I saw knoppix' photo with maila sa tpc, but there was no mention where it was taken. Si Maila yun seller, right? hehe)

2. Ano po ang advantages / disadvantages ng pag gamit ng 2 PSU sa isang rig, naka relay (?) rather than using 1 PSU na mataas ang rating? (I'm thinking I'd rather buy 2x 650W psu kc rather than 1x 1250W PSU)

THanks in advance! =)

[thebackground]

@Jono,  kay hashpuppy. accept doge as payment only.

[jono...@gmail.com]

Hey guys! Musta na ang mining efforts ninyo dyan? I finally have my BAMT set-up and running. Malakas sa kuryente! I'm using omni power reader to measure: 750w ang 2 units na Sapphire R9-280X. seasonic 850w bronze ang psu. and I'm using athlon ii x2 270 cpu so there's maybe 40w wasted there. sigh

my next step is to undervolt and underclock the cpu. Hopefully cpu & mobo both support it: gigabyte 970a-ds3p

anyway i'm writing to ask about ur experience using a dual psu setup. well, hindi ko na kc pwede saksakan ng kahit 1 more gpu itong rig ko. So if i want to expand by adding a 3rd gpu, i have to use an extra psu or upgrade this psu, right?

as of now, I prefer the extra psu option

Dba meron cable na "dual power supply" ? thing is, hindi ko alam where to buy it locally.

And yet, i'm thinking hindi ba pwedeng ganito: i just use another PSU (lets call it psu#2), attach a switch to manually turn it on. 3rd, 4th, and 5th gpu all use PSU#2.

Bale, I just need to make sure that I turn on PSU#2 first, b4 I power up PSU#1.    When turning off naman, first turn off PSU#1, then turn off PSU#2.

Therefore here is the setup:

PSU#1 is attached to mobo; turns on with power switch from mobo; powers mobo and 2 GPUs.

PSU#2 is attached to 3 GPUs; turns on with a stand alone, on/off switch. Kailangan daw (accdg to internet forum sources) an old style on/off switch, circa 486 era. or just any on/off switch nabibili sa hardware store.

What do you guys think? Please tell me if I am delirious at nahihibang sa mga haka haka ko XD

Cheers!

[LoDA]

i also have the same dilemma..

Will the paper clip trick do the trick or not?

http://img110.imageshack.us/img110/4897/dscn00615bt.jpg

[maru]

mas safe ba kung insulated yung paper clip tapos yung mga dulo lang yung bare wire para gamitin na jumper? parang nakakatakot na exposed yung buong jumper wire, hehehe :)

mukhang mas ok nga 2x na 750w compared sa isang 1250W, cost wise. mas malaki pa headroom. so 3x na 280x sa isang PSU tapos 1x GPU plus motherboard sa isang PSU? or 2x 280x sa isang PSU tapos 2x 280x plus motherboard sa isang PSU? 

[jono...@gmail.com]

@Loda
@Maru

I wish I had the guts to try it. Ay wait wala pa naman kc ako nung extra hardware na kailangan ko to try it.

In order for me to attempt, I need 1 extra PSU man lang. hihiwalayin ko ang saksak ng power ng 2 GPU na nasa mobo ko, just to be able to test this "ghetto-rigged" dual psu system. Pero syempre, tamad ako mag kalas ng PSU from another PC just to try this out   XD   (besides, sayang ang downtime ng miner LOL)

Mga sir & ma'am out there,
in case lang meron na sa inyong naka try nito, please share ur experiences naman.

THanks in Advance =D

[maru]

@Jonong

once I get my risers I will try to setup one 1000w and a 750w unit I have in one pc and update you. hopefully nothing gets shorted. will put 3 280x in 1000w PSU then mobo + HDD + 1 290 in the 750w.

@to all

what value should be put in for usd per kilowatt hour when we compute for mining profitability? 0.17usd nga ba?

  

[Anti Online]

@maru saakin gamint ko 0.4usd sa coinwarz..pag nagustohan ko yung result yung yung profitable para sakin..ahehe

[Jade Cereno]

Will need to rewire the house to power a 3kw baby ehehehe

[Ryu Shinobi]

pagdating po ba sa pagpili ng electrical wires, ok na ba yung generic na mabibili sa hardware or may minimum specs tayong kailangang tignan para hindi magka problema?

[Anti Online]

kung maghahanap ka ng electrical wire..sabihin mo sa pinagbibilhan mo yung pang aircon na 2hp para siguradong kakayanin yung rig mo..or yung kaya ang dalawang aircon na tig 1.5hp or 2hp..

[thebackground]

good point @Anti, mag paparewire din kasi ako pra kayanin ang 2nd rigs,
so iba pla pag wire n pang aircon no. pang high performance.

[nonsense91]

kung magpaparewire kayo sa electrician sabihin nyo lang ung total wattage nyo, sila na bahala sa computation ng wire at breaker, ung wire kasi ok lang na malaki yan, pero ung breaker di pwedeng sobrang laki, ok lang ung pang aircon na wire pero pag madami na kayong rigs kulang na un, maraming article sa net about wire and breaker sizings, depende yan sa amps na gagamitin nyo

[Anti Online]

uu kasi ang aircon malakas kumain ng kuryente diba so pag kaya ang aircon kaya din ang rig natin..pero kelangan din natin ilimit yung nakakabit na rig dun sa wiring na yun depende sa wattage na kinuconsume ng rig.

[chris con]

sir anu gamit nyu na psu pag 2 r280x rig ilang watts para makasigurado na maayos  at  anung brand ng r280x card ang maganda or any will do?

[jono...@gmail.com]

@ antiO

sa coinwarz i use pesos na para mas madali.

power cost i put 13 pesos / kwh

btc / usd value i put the peso sell rate from buybitcoin.ph

hardware cost i put the peso cost of my pc

and the results.. ignore the $ sign, in pesos yan lalabas dyan =)

[jono...@gmail.com]

@ thebackground

nag back read ako konti and saw the pic of ur rig with 2 gpu in it.. inside a plastic fruit crate.. i have the same crate!!! mahal ko raw binili at 20 pesos hahaha

anyway naaliw lang ako dun =)

[jono...@gmail.com]

friends & co-miners,

have u heard of grid-tied solar power for the home?

some back story: since the halving of doge, napaisip ako about how to minimize my power bill as a means to improve the profitability of mining. a friend suggested solar power, kahit pang aid lang sa bahay. not necessarily to power the frigging 1200w consumption of a mining rig

sa kakabasa, what i encountered as the most promising lead is this so called grid tied solar system for the home

check out this link, i just found it thru browsing sulit.com.ph

http://solartechphilippines.com/products/solar-inverters/

u can find their ad sa sulit by searching keyword: grid tied solar

in a nutshell, the idea is this: u install solar panels sa bubong and then a power inverter to tie up ur solar production "farm" to the grid. u thro wattage at meralco -- power producer ka na. u still use what u use, but u only pay meralco the difference between what u sell them and what u use.

at least yan ang sabi sa article. need to ask them for more details kung gusto ipursue for real. my constaint is the wife.. banas na sakin all i ever do, think, and talk about is mining / solar na raw

anyway, ipapasa ko ang lead na ito sa inyo, mga kapwa kong miners. may some of u find it useful, and i'm also hoping u might share ur findings in this thread

in closing, here is a brief of the benefits for this system

benefits:
.no need to use batteries that have a short lifespan
.use what u use, sell what u cant
.expandable at any time, just add solar panels at 33K / 250W a pop

disadvantages:
.hindi ka "off the grid" meaning u still can't survive without meralco. but such independence is very very expensive

[Slide Gurtiza]

Did they tell you how long it will take to recoup your investment?  It can take years or a decade.  It may be wiser to invest in more mining equipment and efficient power supplies. And trade smarter.

[jono...@gmail.com]

@slide

i havent called them up yet, but their advert did mention it --- 6yrs to recover daw

anyway u made me realize, tama mga sinabi mo: mathematically, its smarter to invest the capital in more mining equipment, which currently has roi of 6-10 months, based on online profit calcutors

mukhang napanic nga ako after the halving of block rewards: dati kc it would show me roi in less than 4mos. also, dati it would show profit of 40 pesos per hour

tapos sa ngayon under 25 pesos na lang ang hourly profit

tama din yun isang sinabi mo: more efficient power supply ang solution. mas madali nga naman mag invest ng extra 5K sa isang power supply kaysa sa solar power grid-tie system na worth 70K or 100K, and the cost savings might be near to being comparable..

anyway, thanks for sorting me out. mukhang nag panic talaga ako nung nag halve ang rewards ano! hahahah =)

+1 to u! =)

[jono...@gmail.com]

here are some numbers for everybody's reference:

using 2x bronze psus (850w + 750w) and 4x 280x + 1x 270x gpus, energy usage via omni reader is 1280-1310w

using 1x gold 1050w + 1x bronze 850w and 5x 280x gpus, energy usage via omni reader is 1390-1405w

what i'm wondering is.. bakit hindi ko narandaman yun efficiency ng gold rated psu ko?

moving from a 270x -> 280x, the power increase is as expected : +/-100w

i was looking kc for around 5-8% savings (due to efficiency) on the wattage consumption of the items plugged into the gold psu. namely, the cpu/mobo/ram, 2x gpu, and 5x powered risers, a total of 800w

(note: by my computation around 40w to 70w din naman dapat ito )

efficiency: 3670+ khs @ 1400w = 2.62 khs/watt

now if only natuloy yun power savings na inakala kong makukuha ko, this number would be:  3670+ khs @ 1350w = 2.72 khs/watt

lol nabigo.. oh well =)

[Slide Gurtiza]

parehong config? maybe your settings are hotter, now. hence, higher consumption.

[jono...@gmail.com]

@slide

should be the same for the 4units na 280x that stayed with the rig.. tapos ito may update ako..

its weird coz i just switched AVRs. from 2units na tig 1000w, now i have a 3000w monster avr. and i'm using just 1 omni reader for the 2 PSUs now. the reading is:  1350+

my reaction is.. wow!?!  bakit kahapon mas matakaw sya sa kuryente? or is my omni reader wrong?

o tyempuhan ba sya?

weird, but i shouldn't complain coz i'm saving 50 watts today compared to yesterday =)

[Slide Gurtiza]

wait, where are you measuring, before or after the avr?  may kain rin yung avr, try measuring after, right before your psu.  you might be measuring the load of the avr, too.

[jono...@gmail.com]

@slide

good point! di ko naisipan hahaha and i'm sure that it! yun avr ang cause ng extra wattage.

this new avr has wattage reading of about 8.5w kapag walang load

nung dati, 2 avr, tig 7w kapag walang load

kapag loaded na, i guess mas mataas din kain ng avr... makes sense e

+1 slide! that has to be it!  XD