Mandolin Monroe

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ARCHIVED TOPIC: Advise on buying a Morgan Monroe mandolin
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I bought a limited edition MM Firefly Legacy. Everything is excellent except the string action. I had a guitar luthier work on the set-up but I've played $100 imports that had better action. The strings seem so stiff. Went to a lighter guage still no difference. What can be done ?

your profile join preferences help search next newest topic next oldest topicAuthorTopic: Bill Monroe's mandolinJohn Steele
Member From: Renfrew, Ontario, Canadaposted 17 February 2002 11:22 PM profile I've seen many pictures over the years of Bill Monroe playing a weathered Gibson mandolin, and always noticed that the Gibson name was very crudely hacked out of the peghead.
Having heard of Mr. Monroe's stern personality, I figured there was probably a good story behind that chiselled-out peghead. Anybody know it ??
-John Tim Rowley
Member From: Pinconning, MI, USAposted 17 February 2002 11:58 PM profile John,That ain't just any mandolin you're talkin' about, that's Bill Monroe's Gibson Lloyd Loar F-5 and it's one legendary blue-sounding little horn. There are at least three explanations circulating around out there as to why the headstock only says "The", one of which is that the "Gibson" inlay simply fell out some 60-odd years ago but Bill's mandolin became so famous that to replace the inlay would be sacriledge. I'll leave the other two stories to the bluegrassers, who can certainly tell 'em more accurately than I can. Suffice it to say that Mr. Monroe was truly a one-of-a-kind fellow. Did you hear Ricky Skaggs' comments about him tonight on NPR? Pretty good stuff.Tim R. Steve Frost
Member From: Scarborough,Maineposted 18 February 2002 02:29 AM profile I heard that Monroe was irate at the Gibson company for some reason and pried the name out with a pen knife. Many years later he and the company made peace, and the inlay and broken peghead scroll were restored. I think I have the article in an old Frets magazine.Jussi Huhtakangas
Member From: Helsinki, Finlandposted 18 February 2002 03:39 AM profile I remember reading the article on Frets about restoring project after somebody broke into Monroe's house and smashed that particular mandolin into pieces. It's been years, but I still have the magazine somewhere. If I remember, I'll try to find it tonight and give you more details. Larry Chung
Member From: San Francisco, CA, USAposted 18 February 2002 03:52 PM profile yeah, I've read the same Frets article, and I've also read in a few other places about the inlay. If I recall, Bill Monroe had asked the Gibson folks to repair the broken scroll on his F-5; it took them a good long while to do this repair, and to his chagrin, they had refinished the mandolin - bad, very bad.So he proceeded to scratch out the name (and therefore, the manufacturer and any marketing and sales pitches) off of the headstock.You go, Bill.
Joey Ace
Sysop From: Southern Ontario, Canadaposted 18 February 2002 05:29 PM profile Hi John,
Bill purchased that mandolin in a barbershop in the 40s for $150.There's two types of damage being discussed here.First, Bill inflected cosmetic damage to it with a pen knife. He had some dispute with Gibson. He then gouged out the Gibson name on the headstock.In the 70s Gibson made peace with him and restored the mandolin. This was the subject of the FRETS article.In the 80s the same mandolin was badly damaged as it hung on his wall by a breakin thug with a blunt object. My sources say it was due to a personal dispute with a woman. I don't know if that was ever proved. It was again restored.Here's a story aboout it's current ownership: -j0ey- [This message was edited by Joey Ace on 18 February 2002 at 06:55 PM.]

From: Renfrew, Ontario, Canadaposted 18 February 2002 07:03 PM profile Thanks guys... you're a mine of interesting info!
-John Fred Murphy
Member From: Indianapolis, In. USAposted 19 February 2002 10:50 AM profile Bill discussed this incident on the old Nashville Now show, in an interview with Ralph Emory. He stated that he sent the madolin back to the Gibson Factory for some repair to the neck. They thought they would suprise him and completely restored it to like new condition. He was very irate with them because he liked it with the worn appearance and so he took a knife and gouged out the Gibson name and put some scracthes back on the body.[This message was edited by Fred Murphy on 19 February 2002 at 10:50 AM.]

I have bid on (and Won) a 1993 Gibson Bill Monroe signature limited edition F-5 mandolin #64 of 200. My question is did they produce any of these with a varnish finish? I have studied the pictures of the one I am to recieve in a day or two and compared it to other pictures (the few I can find) and the dark shading on the burst appears to be much wider on the one I bid on. I have a 3 day period after reciept to return it no questions asked. I suspected it had some finish work done on it, but just not sure. I do some luthier work and action build some mandolin. I got into this one at a resoniable price, if I can live with it. If anyone has any info on any of the spec's on these mandolins I would apprecaite it. I was told it has a Adirondack top on it,I think I might be able to tell if that is the case when it gets here as I build with particular wood, but maybe not. Any help would certainly be appreciated. thanks

Hi. I have an old Gibson tenor banjo junior, twenty frets. Where the patent number is usually stamped it is stamped "patent applied for." Can anyone help me determine the age and tell me anything about it?

Tremolo in Monroe-style mandolin has many speeds, but it always references the tempo of the song. Mike talks about how important tremolo is to traditional bluegrass mandolin playing and demonstrates some of the nuances of Monroe-style tremolo.

Did you know that your uncle Bill was terrified of tunnels? He would hide his face if you went through one. And, did Boyce ever tell you about the time on the stage of The Worlds Original Jamboree which is how they would do their publicity for the WWVA Jamboree. Sounds pretty good.

My question: what was the highest and hardest notes you had to sing to give Bobby the harmony he needed? I have heard you hit many F and F# notes. Did you ever have to sing higher? G, G#? Anything you can tell us about you as a singer would be appreciated.

Sonny, Back when you worked for Bill Monroe, you were playing in Kingsport, TN. You said you went out back and Mr. Monroe was scratching his mandolin all over. What did he use to do this with and why was he doing that?

So, we, as musicians who create music, the same happened with the festival. We create, others replicate. Carlton Haney created, and VOILA, within a few summers there was a festival everywhere. We have worked huge festivals in Japan, Germany, Switzerland, Sweden, Beautiful Canada and more. The Carlton Haney idea gave us all a lucrative business in which we could survive, and the more creative would thrive. Thank you Lord, please take care of Carlton. Amen.

Surely among the most influential banjo players of all time, Sonny Osborne has dedicated his life to bluegrass music, and the five string banjo. For 50 years he toured with his brother, Bobby, as The Osborne Brothers and were one of the top acts in bluegrass and country music in the 1960s and '70s. He retired in 2005 but remains active in the banjo world with the manufacture and distribution of his Chief banjos.

Other mandolin instructors this year included Alan Bibey, David Davis, Lauren Price, John Keith, and Silas Powell. In recent years, the camp has added banjo, fiddle, guitar, voice, and bass instruction as well. This year those courses were taught by Jeremy Stephens (banjo), Corrina Rose Logston (fiddle), Robert Montgomery (guitar and singing), and former Blue Grass Boy and (with Mike Compton) founding member of the Nashville Bluegrass Band Mark Hembree (bass). Will Kimble provided on-site luthier assistance and Chris Sharp provided guitar and vocal support where needed and handled videography and photography.

I attended the Monroe Mandolin Camp twice before, in 2018 and 2019 (the 2020 camp was held on-line). Before 2018 I had never attended a music camp of any kind, and the Monroe Mandolin Camp is the only one I have attended. Nevertheless, a description of the camp and my very pleasant experience there may be of interest not only to mandolinists but also to anyone considering attending a bluegrass music camp. I have no financial or other interest in the Monroe Mandolin Camp beyond being a very satisfied student who would like to see it continue so I can attend in the future.

In addition, the instructors performed a concert together on Thursday night at a nearby college; all of them shone during their moments in the spotlight. (There was also a concert on Tuesday night in Nashville featuring the instructors and special guests that I did not attend.) Highlights for me included the performances of Jeremy Stephens and Corrina Rose Logston, who are part of the High Fidelity band, a terrific group of young bluegrass masters who play it like the founders. In addition to his prodigious banjo skills, Stephens is a mandolin crosspicker who sounds like Jesse McReynolds in his prime. Both he and Corrina are outstanding vocalists, and Thursday afternoon they and Lauren Price did a special presentation on vocal harmony.

Gibson F-5 #73994 was the bench mate to the most famous mandolin of all time, Gibson F-5 #73987, purchased by Bill Monroe in a Florida barbershop in the early 1940s and used throughout his career. Mr. Monroe became an American music icon and is credited with creating a music genre called "Bluegrass". Monroe played this mandolin all over the world from humble school houses and barn dances to command performances for Presidents and royalty. F-5 # 73987 is in the country music hall of fame and housed under glass for perusal of the curious, as it shows extreme wear and even abuse associated with the remarkable stories of Monroe's life and career. F-5 #73994 has features and appointments similar to # 73987, including the rare positioning of the black stripe in the body binding on the side instead of the top. These "side-bound" mandolins are few and far between and are heavily associated with the Monroe look and sound. Unlike Mr. Monroe's highly worn F-5, #73994 is in perfect original condition and gives us a precious insight into what Mr. Monroe must have encountered in that barbershop so long ago, and understanding as to why he chose to spend the rest of his life devoted to this mandolin and its music.

Charlie and Bill Monroe were idols in Piedmont, North Carolina, and theirs was some of the first recorded music I ever heard. In the late 1930s they performed live on WPTF radio in Raleigh and from there they toured extensively throughout the Carolinas. Their rough and tumble lifestyle and fast paced traditional music--from ballads to heart songs to gospel--made them the toast of the farm based population, which included my family. My grandfather saw them live, alternating sets with a "B" western movie starring Bob Steele at the old Ramseur theatre. My uncle and aunt, whose farm I stayed at as a child, played their music on a 78 rpm record player. Bill and Charlie broke up (along with the back of Charlie's guitar, or so the story goes) and Bill started his on band, "The Bluegrass Boys," kicking the music up into even faster tempos and higher pitches. THIS was the music that captivated me and drew me away from the laid back Piedmont country music of my father and other kinfolk and friends. At the age of 9, I saw Bill Monroe and the Bluegrass Boys live and my world was changed forever. I witnessed the amazing power, grace and teamwork of the Bluegrass Boys; from the moment of their introduction, they ran to the stage and began weaving around the single mic; seeing the dazzling mandolin-driven instrumental fireworks in person inspired me like no record ever could...and the stage presence and vocal prowess of Bill Monroe was a force to be reckoned with. Those who saw Monroe during his later phase got no hint of the level of pitch control, dynamic range and sheer power his voice was capable of in these live, primitive PA settings during the prime of his career.

Thus, I became a young man of constant pleadings, to my overworked parents, asking them to take me to see Monroe whenever he came within driving range of our home. There is even a story my Mother tells of me heading out with my lunch in a bandana, attempting to walk from North Carolina to Bean Blossom, Indiana to see Bill Monroe. During one of these outings, I finally had the nerve to walk up to Monroe. He liked kids. After many such encounters, he began to recognize me and allowed me to stand quietly by him as he greeted fans, or in the dressing room while the band warmed up. On several occasions he let me play his mandolin. Once, he took me on the bus and slowly read a 97 page biography & discography I had written on his life for a high school term paper.

The mandolin I played during these days was a 1915 or 16 Gibson F-2 that had formerly belonged to Karl Davis of the Cumberland Ridge Runners. Monroe recognized the mandolin. It reminded him of his and Charlie's first musical gig which was as dancers for the WLS Jamboree In Chicago. The house band was the Cumberland Ridge Runners, a wonderful old time group that excelled at a variety of music and entertainment, and in retrospect I realized what an influence they were to the development of the Bluegrass Boys formula. Karl Davis played this very mandolin to accompany Bill and Charlie as they danced with their girlfriends on the popular live radio show. One day, back stage at the Lake Norman music hall, I was hanging out with Monroe with my F-2. Jimmy Martin and Allen Munde were there clowning around and we all know how Jimmy likes a good sounding oval hole F model, and they were passing the mandolin around admiring the tone. After a while, Monroe handed the mandolin back to ME and indicated that I should play something. I did not hesitate: "Dusty Miller." This was a bold choice. It was the lead-off tour-de-force on Monroe's latest recording at that time, a blazing rendition, and I imitated it to the best of my ability. It was a bold choice. However, I was confident. I had spent many hours slowing down the record, analyzing each finger position and pick stroke, and little by little, getting it up to speed. The entire time I played, Monroe looked the other way. I finished. Silence. Then Monroe turned to me and said, "let me see that mandolin." Then he began to play, a lilting cross shuffle stroke I had never imagined, a whole new Dusty Miller, something archaic and old world. I was stunned. Had I learned it wrong? Monroe did not say a thing, he just handed me back my mandolin. That night, I sat by our camp fire and studied up on what I had just heard. It was quite a challenge, but by sun rise, I had learned "Dusty Miller" in this new and wonderful way.

The next day, Monroe took the stage for his afternoon show. I had been allowed in the dressing room, listening as the Bluegrass Boys warmed up, and stood in the wings by the stage as they began their concert. About mid way through, Monroe announced that they were going to play an instrumental. (Now recently, someone asked me if I had known Monroe well enough for him to call me by name. I said of course--my name was "hey, boy!") Monroe continued: ...and there's a boy whose gonna come up here and play this number with me. Come on up here boy!" And he pointed over to me. I nearly fell over. I looked around to see who he was talking to, and someone said, "he means you! Go on up there!" So I took out the old Cumberland Ridge Runners mandolin and ran to the mic. Monroe says, "we're gonna play an old timer, the Dusty Miller. Kick it off there boy." So I raised my mandolin to the mic and started playing like I had learned in my all night vigil by the campfire. After a few bars, Monroe lifted his mighty axe and began playing: exactly like on his new record, the first version that I had spent the night UNlearning, the melody I had worked so hard to discard! I continued to play the campfire vigil version, and you know what? They blended together beautifully. Not in the way of two instruments playing the same melody in harmony a third apart, but in a counter point, where one instrument makes a statement and the other dances around it. The thrill of that experience and the realization of what I learned in that moment of inspiration will stay with me for my entire life.

And so, what should I play, when handed a side bound July 9 Gibson F-5 signed and numbered just seven digits after Bill Monroe's Loar, the most famous mandolin of all time? Why "the Dusty Miller" of course. The first time through is in the style learned from Monroe's record (Bluegrass Time album, recorded around 1967), the second time the campfire vigil version and the third time a mix of the two. Thank you Bill, you are the Master from which the F-5 fountain still flows!

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