Kurviger EoL

[Hans Kurscheidt]

Hi, I was a happy user of Kurviger and may be, I lost a bit track of what was going on wrt. newer developments. Could you please elaborate a bit more, what EoL implies?

1. Will the Kurviger www site disappear? Is there a replacement under cruiser?
2. What about Kurviger Tourer?
3. How much does Cruiser cost?
4. Is there a feature comparison between Kurviger and Cruiser?

RGDS

hk

[Mark Manasas]

Yeah, this was a sad start to my day. Caught totally unaware. I was telling all my iPhone buddies how awesome it was and waiting for the day it would be available for them on iPhone. :-(

[Hans Kurscheidt]

Guess there's something commercial behind. I gave cruiser a shot and just the very 1st trial in my neighborhood went wrong. Routing me through the forest w/ no road.

[Emux]

1,2. Kurviger website continues to operate as always.
(has a different developer)


3. Cruiser will work with subscriptions (we will see).

You can test the next version with Cruiser (Beta):
https://play.google.com/apps/testing/gr.talent.cruiser


4. Cruiser is a map and navigation platform used by Kurviger.
Cruiser contains much more, plus (offline) import of Kurviger routes.

It cannot calculate Kurviger routes (without permission).
I will be available, if Kurviger would like this in the future.

--
Emux

[Emux]

> Routing me through the forest w/ no road.

The calculated routes depend on the selected routing service in app routing settings.

--
Emux

[Hans Kurscheidt]

I was using the Windows version. Only OSRM works, the other give error msgs.

[Hans Kurscheidt]

Sorry, don't understand this:

. Cruiser is a map and navigation platform used by Kurviger.

Cruiser contains much more, plus (offline) import of Kurviger routes.

It cannot calculate Kurviger routes (without permission).
I will be available, if Kurviger would like this in the future.

What would be the right way to export routes, created under Kurviger web site into cruise, w/out missing shaping pts, and Tourer features and being sure that the PC created route will be the same on the Android device? How will re-calculations of routes be done if it cannot calculate Kurviger routes ?

[Emux]

> I was using the Windows version. Only OSRM works, the other give error msgs.

GraphHopper (offline) needs first to open an offline graph for the region.

They are available here: https://download.mapsforge.org

--
Emux

[Emux]

> What would be the right way to export routes, created under Kurviger web site into cruise, w/out missing shaping pts, and Tourer features and being sure that the PC created route will be the same on the Android device?

Export and import as .kurviger files.

As Kurviger routes are imported offline in Cruiser,
the routes remain unchanged with all their features.

> How will re-calculations of routes be done if it cannot calculate Kurviger routes ?

Navigation rerouting will use the selected routing service,
but only for the part from user location to next waypoint,
leaving the rest of the route unchanged.

--
Emux

[hellsguenni]

First of all, thanks Emux for the great work with kurviger app, really appreciated :)

I just downloaded cruiser app on my mobile an tried to import a *.kurviger file, but it did not work. Are there any basic setups to be done to realize this or did I completely missunderstood this comment:

Export and import as .kurviger files.

As Kurviger routes are imported offline in Cruiser,
the routes remain unchanged with all their features.

[Emux]

> First of all, thanks Emux for the great work with kurviger app, really appreciated :)

Thanks for the kind words!


Import of Kurviger routes will be available in the next Cruiser.

Currently you can test it in Cruiser (Beta):
https://play.google.com/apps/testing/gr.talent.cruiser

--
Emux

[hellsguenni]

Ok, I downloaded and installed the cruiser app on my mobile and the good news is that it looks on first view almost similar to kurviger app. Look really forward to the cruiser version that allows import and export of *.kurviger files - I would bet that cruiser works more or less identical to kurviger, at least from a pure user perspective. So for the time being my kurviger app still does what I expect, will wait patiently for the next cruiser version.

[Emux]

> I downloaded and installed the cruiser app on my mobile and the good news is that it looks on first view almost similar to kurviger app.

Kurviger app uses Cruiser platform's libraries.

> Look really forward to the cruiser version that allows import and export of *.kurviger files

Import of Kurviger routes will be available.
Not export, as there is no kurviger routing.

> I would bet that cruiser works more or less identical to kurviger, at least from a pure user perspective.

Correctly.

--
Emux

[hellsguenni]

Understood. Is there a format planned that assures a 100% identical route sharing from cruiser to cruiser? Icing on the cake would be to have a route sharing with kurviger web app, so just having a navigation app with a different name but same functionalities.

[Emux]

I could add export in .kurviger format, but it will not be useful in app without Kurviger routing.
(I wrote the .kurviger format, they are just json files)


Future seems to be on GPX navigation track (offline) format.
It is a universal format already used by apps like Locus and websites like RouteYou.

Next Cruiser (currently Cruiser Beta) support import / export with this GPX navigation format.

See also this discussion:
https://groups.google.com/g/cruiser-users/c/cY9uthCX0e0

--
Emux

[Elke “Ellie” Schmidt]

Would the maps at "https://download.mapsforge.org/" be the same as at "https://download.kurviger.de/maps/" ?

Is the functionality for map downoald the same as in kurviger, so can I further use my downloaded maps on my android phone for the cruiser app?

[Emux]

Both servers provide Mapsforge maps (I am Mapsforge developer).

Mapsforge uses default OpenStreetMap tags.
Kurviger may use extra motorcycle OSM tags.


OpenAndroMaps also provides excellent maps:
https://www.openandromaps.org/en

Together with the Elevate map style:
https://www.openandromaps.org/en/legend/elevate-mountain-hike-theme

--
Emux

[Frog]

I am really sorry to hear that the app will be discontinued. I was really preferring small-size / community kind of approach - and the possibility to interact with both the community as well as with the developers directly. The app was for the Swiss Army knife to solve all kind of navigation issues on the motorcycle - and a great thank to the developers who made this possible!

From what I read so far, I understand that the online route calculation will no longer exist - I and only the different offline routing algorithms can be used for creating the routes. It has always been said that these offline routing algorithms were unable to calculate routes with the attributes "kurvig" or "extra kurvig" - and more or less only the attribute "fast" would be available using the offline routing algorithms. Is it then fair to say that no curvy routes can be calculated in the future directly in the cruiser app? 

New to me is the Routing Service OSRM. How is this service positioned for offline routing?

[Emux]

> New to me is the Routing Service OSRM. How is this service positioned for offline routing?

OSRM and the other new routing services that will exist in next Cruiser (currently in Cruiser Beta)
are online routing services, mostly with fastest route profiles.

There are 2 offline routing services:

- GraphHopper: offline graphs are available here.

- BRouter: its profiles can be customized for every need.
  Next BRouter will also provide straight line profile in Cruiser.

--
Emux

[ToTo GSA Rider]

Hallo zusammen,

ich habe jetzt auf meinem Handy eine Cruiser App und eine Cruiser GL App, welche muss ich starten?
Als Kartenmaterial habe ich einfach das auf meinem Handy ausgewählt was ich auch in der kurviger App hatte mit der Endung .map, kann ich das Kartenmaterial weiter verwenden?
Ich habe einfach mal eine kurviger Route ausgewählt und diese wurde auch ohne Fehler importiert.

Hello all,

I now have a Cruiser app and a Cruiser GL app on my phone, which one do I need to launch?
As map material I have simply selected the one on my phone what I also had in the curviger app with the extension .map, can I continue to use the map material?
I just selected a curviger route and this was also imported without error.

[Airald Marquet]

Hi, 

another Kurviger enthusiast. I'm now a Cruiser subscribed user. 

I suppose that Cruiser and CruiserGL are the same app but the difference is the graphic engine that uses. Internally is the same app, that have 2 different mainActivities depending on what you start. Settings are the same.

Best regards.

PS: the only thing that I don't like from Cruiser is the app icon ;) 

El dia dimecres, 2 de novembre de 2022 a les 6:48:04 UTC+1, Torste...@gmx.de va escriure:

[Tom]

Cruiser or CruiserGL? I asked myself the same question.... which one should I use? After that I have to digest the shock first.

Will the Kurviger 2.x app not work at all in the future or just not be updated?

[Emux]

Cruiser vs Cruiser GL

They use different map engines:

- Cruiser uses Mapsforge map library

- Cruiser GL uses VTM OpenGL map library
  with more functions like rotation, tilt, etc.

Kurviger is a derivative of Cruiser, they use the same offline Mapsforge maps.

Note: I am the developer of Mapsforge and VTM.
         (they are used in most popular map apps)

--
Emux

[Emux]

Cruiser 3 was released with:

- Import Kurviger routes

If you have any comments, please write them here on the Cruiser forum!

--
Emux

[Tom]

not yet available...

Generally, I noticed when importing in GPX, that the route is not always recalculated after the import. If you then run the import again or start the GPX file from a file explorer app by "Open with Cruiser", it works then the repeated time with the same settings.

If import/export works with the Kurviger file import, that should then actually be better. Will you then also be able to export the Kurviger file? This is especially important if you manually change something on the route, because the routing engine is not that of Kurviger and you want to save the change with the app again.

[hellsguenni]

My kurviger Abo runs out on 29.03.23 - may I use the app up to this point in time?

[Emux]

> may I use the app up to this point in time?

According to Google Play API:
"Once deactivated, it will become unavailable to new subscribers, but existing subscribers will maintain their subscription."

--
Emux

[Emux]

> not yet available...

Please wait for Google Play to make it available everywhere.

> I noticed when importing in GPX, that the route is not always recalculated after the import.

That's expected with all apps / routers, as GPX files only contain waypoints and / or tracks.
Not calculated routes with turn instructions.

But there is the new GPX navigation track format, which is offline and Cruiser 3 can export / import it.
Select "Navigation" in the GPX export / import dialogs, it is perfect for offline route storage.

It is already used by apps like Locus and websites like RouteYou. More details:
https://groups.google.com/g/cruiser-users/c/cY9uthCX0e0

> Will you then also be able to export the Kurviger file?

I can add Kurviger export too.


Note that navigation rerouting is always partial and does NOT change the whole route.
It only calculates a new route from user location to next waypoint.

In next version there will be a similar recalculate option also in the route planning.
So you can change / calculate only route segments and NOT change the whole route.

--
Emux

[ToTo GSA Rider]

Okay, dann kann ich weiterhin ggf. die Offline Karten bei kurviger herunterladen und ggf. für die Cruiser App nutzen, wenn ich das jetzt richtig verstanden habe.

Grüße Toto

Okay, then I can continue to download the offline maps at kurviger if necessary and use them for the Cruiser app if I have now understood correctly.

Greetings Toto

[ToTo GSA Rider]

Betreff: Offline Kartenmaterial
Guten Morgen zusammen,

verzeiht mir bitte jetzt schon einmal meine Unwissenheit bzw., dass ich nicht so richtig weiss was bzw. welche Karten ich herunterladen muß. In der App gibt es einmal den Punkt Karten herunterladen und einmal den Punk POI. In beiden Fällen kommt man ja auf eine Seiet mit mehreren Links.
1.Frage: Muß ich jetzt Karten und POIs beides auf mein Handy herunterladen und dann öffnen für die Länder die ich bereisen möchte?
2.Frage: Wenn ich auf den Link von Mapsforge drücke bekomme ich v3, v4 und v5 angezeigt. Welchen Bereich muß ich hier laden?

Bei der kurviger App gab es einfach den Bereich Offline Karten laden wo alles dabei war.
@Emux: Könntest du von den Cruiser nicht auch wieder so einen Downloadbereich machen wie es ihn für die kurviger App gegeben hat?

Grüße Toto

 Subject: Offline map material
Good morning everyone,

please forgive me now my ignorance or that I do not really know what or which maps I have to download. In the app there is once the point download maps and once the point POI. In both cases, you come to a Seiet with several links.
1st question: Do I now maps and POIs both download to my phone and then open for the countries I want to travel?
2nd question: When I click on the link from Mapsforge I get v3, v4 and v5 displayed. Which area do I need to load here?

In the curvy app, there was simply the download offline maps section where everything was there.
@Emux: Could you of the Cruiser not also make again such a download area as it has given for the kurviger app?

Greetings Toto

Translated with www.DeepL.com/Translator (free version)

[Emux]

You can download the latest maps v5 for your regions.
You can also download maps from OpenAndroMaps.

The .poi files provide offline POI search in the app (e.g. fuel)
and will be improved more in the future.

Cruiser is more advanced than Kurviger,
as it provides offline maps + routing + poi.

--
Emux

[Tom]

map layers seem to be deactivated in Cruiser, how can I then see fuel stations on the map like in Kurviger?

[Emux]

Map layers depend on the:
- Offline map
- Map style

With OpenAndroMaps maps you can use the Elevate map style.

With Kurviger maps you can use the (attached) Kurviger map style.
(I am its author and it is already public in the app apk)

--
Emux

[ToTo GSA Rider]

Ist es nicht möglich eine Kartenaktualisierung zu programmieren wie zum Beispiel in der OsmAnd App wo die App dann von alleine eine Aktualisierung meldet. So ist das echt zu umständlich. Ich habe gedacht es wird wenn verbessert und kein Stillstand ?

 Is it not possible to program a map update such as in the OsmAnd app where the app then reports an update on its own. This is really too cumbersome. I thought it would be improved if and no standstill ?

[Tom]

With Kurviger maps you can use the (attached) Kurviger map style.
(I am its author and it is already public in the app apk)

Where do I need to copy this to?

[Emux]

> Is it not possible to program a map update such as in the OsmAnd app where the app then reports an update on its own.

Such popular apps have companies with many paid developers. :)

Download manager and many other surprises are already planned for the future.

--
Emux

[Emux]

> Where do I need to copy this to?

Download the map style zip in your phone and use the app menu "Map | Open map style".
Then you can also change the map layers.

--
Emux

[Willy]

Download the map(s) and the theme(s).
In Cruiser set map and theme and layer.
See demo gif images in attachment.

(A9  = set maps and themes onto any sd card folder)

Op donderdag 3 november 2022 om 11:49:50 UTC+1 schreef Emux:

[Emux]

Cruiser 3.0.1 was released with:

- Import / export Kurviger routes

--

Emux

[Tom]

Import and export of curved routes works, thank you.
Unfortunately, I also have to say what I don't like:
Since version 3.00, you can no longer simulate routes or navigate, so you can't even test a journey with navigation. You are asked to pay directly. However, I'm still in a phase in which I don't know whether I'll change over from Kurviger. The loss of the curved routing engine from Kurviger weighs heavily. Also the avoidance strategies that mapped exactly to the Kurviger web settings and worked in the Kurviger app.
The Routing menu - "Open Maps" has been changed to "Open Graph". It should be changed back to "Open Maps" and the file manager no longer works. Directories cannot be changed but are fixed by default.

Import und Export von Kurviger Routen funktioniert, Danke.
Leider muss ich aber auch sagen, was ich nicht gut finde:
Seit der Version 3.00 kann man nicht mehr Routen oder Routen simulieren, also nicht einmal eine Fahrt mit Navigation testen. Es wir direkt zum Zahlen aufgefordert. Ich bin aber noch in einer Phase, in der ich noch nicht weiß, ob ich umsteige. Der Verlust der Kurviger Routing engine wiegt schwer. Auch die Vermeidungsstrategien, die in Kurviger genau zu den Kurviger Web Einstellungen gemappt und funktioniert haben.
Das Menü Routing - "Karten öffnen" wurde in "Graph öffnen" geändert. Es sollte wieder in "Karten öffnen" geändert werden und der Speichermanager funktioniert nicht mehr. Verzeichnisse können nicht gewechselt werden, sondern sind fest voreingestellt.

[Wolfgang Stöhler]

Auch ich bin in der Überlegensphase - spendiere aber gerne 9,99 €, um dann wirklich alles real ausprobieren zu können. Übrigens heißt es bei mir (3.01) "Karten öffnen". Natürlich fehlt das Kurviger-Routing, aber doch nur bei Neuberechnungen und die nutze ich so gut wie gar nicht. Das gleiche gilt für die Vermeidungen, nur bei Neuberechnungen relevant und von mir sowieso seltenst genutzt.
Ich gehe davon aus, dass ich meine bei kurviger.de geplante Route (auch mit Vermeidungen und unterschiedlichen Routing Profilen) mit Cruiser 1:1 nachfahren kann und bei den äußerst seltenen Neuberechnungen kann ich mit Abweichungen leben.  

I'm also thinking about cruiser - but I'm happy to invest €9.99 so that I can try out everything in real life. By the way, it is called "open maps" in my version (3.01). Of course, the Kurviger routing is missing, but only for recalculations and I don't use them hardly at all. The same goes for the avoidances, only relevant for recalculations and rarely used by me anyway.
I assume that I can follow my route planned at kurviger.de (also with avoidances and different routing profiles) with Cruiser 1:1 and with extremely rare recalculations I can live with deviations.  

[Emux]

Thanks for your feedback.

Apps cannot survive without subscriptions and the price is very low.
Please understand that development cannot continue for free forever.

Subscriptions have a free trial and can be canceled anytime (like Netflix).

> The Routing menu - "Open Maps" has been changed to "Open Graph".

There are separate menu for maps and routing:

- "Map | Open maps" to open offline map files

- "Routing | Open graph" to open a graph folder (for offline GraphHopper routing)
  In that case the directory is fixed, because of Android's new storage restrictions.

You just need to put the files in that folder.
In the future a download manager will be provided.

--
Emux

[Emux]

Thanks for your support.

> I assume that I can follow my route planned at kurviger.de (also with avoidances and different routing profiles) with Cruiser 1:1 and with extremely rare recalculations I can live with deviations.

Exactly, this is how it works:

Navigation rerouting only recalculates a route from user location to next waypoint.
Then this new calculated route segment is merged with your existing route.

Navigation rerouting does not change the whole route during route recalculations.

--
Emux

[Emux]

You can add a lot of shaping points to the route,
then the rerouting deviations are minimal.

--
Emux

[ToTo GSA Rider]

Wie bekommt man eigentlich das Aussehen so hin wie in der App Vorschau im Play Store. Das Design vom ersten Screenshot finde ich genial.

[Tom]

Navigation rerouting only recalculates a route from user location to next waypoint.
Then this new calculated route segment is merged with your existing route.

If this was the case, then I could live with it, but it is not.

In an existing Kurviger route (cruiser2.jpg) I have just changed the starting point and it recalculated and destroyed the routing at shaping points 8, 14 and 15 (see cruiser1.jpg)

[Tom]

The same happens when I just insert another shaping point at a complete other area.

[Emux]

> I have just changed the starting point and it recalculated

I mentioned the rerouting during navigation does not change the whole route.


Not the route planning, outside navigation.
If you need that too, I can also implement the route planning to only change route segments.

--
Emux

[Emux]

The process currently is:

- Import a Kurviger route

- Start navigation:
  Rerouting does not change the whole route, only returns you on the existing route.

--
Emux

[Emux]

> Wie bekommt man eigentlich das Aussehen so hin wie in der App Vorschau im Play Store. Das Design vom ersten Screenshot finde ich genial.

If you mean the attached image:

- Settings | Application | Display color
  ARGB (128, 0, 171, 255)

- Settings | Application | Icon color
- Settings | Navigation | Icon color 
  Yellow RGB (255, 255, 0)

- Settings | Application | Font color
  Black RGB (0, 0, 0)

- Settings | Application | Outline
  Enabled

- Settings | Routing | Route color
  Magenta ARGB (255, 255, 0, 255)

- Settings | Location | Location color
  Blue RGB (0, 0, 255)

--
Emux

[Airald Marquet]

The subscription for less than 10 € / year is a very good price for users, less than 1 € / month... For many people, software is not valued because you can copy easily and it not takes space in your pocket. A simple and logic interface is the result of a lot of work. Many people will pay 10 € for a gintonic but not for software.

I used Kurviger for more than 4 years and now I switched to Cruiser. I like a lot the options added recently. A lot of options, but they don't make an unfriendly app. Basic functions are easy to use even for newbies.

Best regards.

El dia dissabte, 5 de novembre de 2022 a les 11:53:42 UTC+1, Emux va escriure:

[Tom]

Ok, now I understand. Thanks. Yes, it would be fine if there was a an option for switching the behaviour for route planning, one setting for changing the whole route and one for only the segment. I could imagine that there are situations in practice where both option have advantages. When just wanting to manually pass a blocked route on alternative roads it is better to only change the segment when moving, deleting or adding waypoints. When there is more time for planning it is maybe better to calculate the route completely in order to add more shaping points.

Don't know if this is suitable for others too.

Ok, I will subsribe to see what's coming.

[Emux]

> it would be fine if there was a an option for switching the behaviour for route planning, one setting for changing the whole route and one for only the segment.

That's exactly the plan: add more flexibility (and speed) also in route planning. :)


In navigation, the rerouting already works this way.
When driving it is faster to calculate the necessary small section, instead of thousands of km or miles.

> Ok, I will subsribe to see what's coming.

Thanks for the support!

--
Emux

[ToTo GSA Rider]

Welche Routing Einstellung muß ich nutzen um das gleiche Ergebnis zu erreichen wie früher 

Routing Online kurviger

Routing Offline BRouter

[ToTo GSA Rider]

@Emux welches Kartenlayout nutzt du in deiner Ansicht und wie bekommt man das Kartenlayout von der kurviger App?

[ToTo GSA Rider]

Welche Einstellung muß ich nutzen um genau die Route so zu erhalten wie in kurviger geplant?

[Emux]

> Welche Routing Einstellung muß ich nutzen um das gleiche Ergebnis zu erreichen wie früher
Routing Online kurviger
Routing Offline BRouter

> Welche Einstellung muß ich nutzen um genau die Route so zu erhalten wie in kurviger geplant?

- Import a Kurviger route

- Select BRouter (offline) or GraphHopper (offline) in "Settings | Routing | Routing"
- Start navigation
- Any rerouting only calculates the segment from the user location to the next point
  and the route remains unchanged

> welches Kartenlayout nutzt du in deiner Ansicht und wie bekommt man das Kartenlayout von der kurviger App?

You can use offline maps from any map provider, like OpenAndroMaps with Elevate map style.

Or offline maps from Kurviger with the map style / layers that exists above:
https://groups.google.com/g/cruiser-users/c/U_3UAQsPctE/m/innaSzxGCAAJ

--
Emux

[ToTo GSA Rider]

Kann ich die App auch weiterhin zur Navigation nutzen wenn das Abo gekündigt ist?

 Can I continue to use the app for navigation if the subscription is cancelled?

Emux schrieb am Mittwoch, 2. November 2022 um 16:24:54 UTC+1:

> may I use the app up to this point in time?

According to Google Play API:
"Once deactivated, it will become unavailable to new subscribers, but existing subscribers will maintain their subscription."

--
Emux

[Emux]

According to Google Play:

"Once deactivated, it will become unavailable to new subscribers, but existing subscribers will maintain their subscription."

Google Play subscriptions can be canceled at any time, will remain valid until their period ends (like Netflix).

--
Emux

[ToTo GSA Rider]

Wenn ich also die kurviger 2 App weiter nutzen möchte, muß ich das Abo also laufen lassen und weiter bezahlen obwohl es keine Aktualisierungen mehr gibt?
Wenn die App nicht mehr aktualisiert wird, dürfte sie normalerweise ja auch kein Geld mehr kosten aber trotzdem weiter nutzbar sein.

 

So if I want to continue using the kurviger 2 app, do I have to keep the subscription running and keep paying even though there are no more updates?
If the app is no longer updated, it should normally not cost any more money but still be usable. 

[Emux]

The subscriptions are expected to be deactivated, then - according to Google Play - they will not renew at the end of their period.

(Pro features do not work without subscription)

--
Emux

[ToTo GSA Rider]

Okay, Danke für diese Info.

 Okay, thanks for that info.