Cromemco Cyclops 88 CCC board set reproduction

[Aron Hoekstra]

Just FYI to the group, I have completely reproduced the 2-board set known as "88 CCC" from schematics, which are the S100 boards for use with a Cyclops camera. 

Big thanks to Bill Sudbrink for answering a bunch of my questions by cross-referencing his original set.

VCF Forum thread here:

https://forum.vcfed.org/index.php?threads/cromemco-cyclops-88-ccc-board-set-reproduction.1255558

Github Repo:

https://github.com/nullvalue0/Cromemco-Cyclops-88-CCC-Reproduction

I plan to place an order for the PCB's in the next few days. If anyone would like a set please let me know, I'll sell/ship them at cost. Keep in mind these are untested.

[Aron Hoekstra]

Also, I plan on building Bill's Cyclops reproduction which is detailed here: http://wsudbrink.dyndns.org:8080/cyclops/index.html

I will be placing an order for the ACC-1, 2 & 3 boards which make up the camera - so I'll have spares of these as well.

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[Mark Huffstutter]

Hi Aron,

            Wow! Yes, please, put Me down for a set of boards.

And Thank You for doing the heavy lifting!

 

Thank You,

Mark

--

[wpe...@brainless.org]

Hi,

 

Put me down for a board set. 

 

Too bad some newer chips, like the DRAMs that are easier and cheaper to find and buy.  I have a ton of older DRAMs in my stash, but not as old as in the schematic. 

 

 

 

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[KDK KDK]

I would also like a set. Thanks for the hard work

To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/cromemco/076801dcc083%24008a1390%24019e3ab0%24%40brainless.org.

[Aron Hoekstra]

Sounds good guys, I ordered 10 sets of the 88 CCC boards and the 10 sets of the ACC boards so I should have plenty of spares. The ACC boards will be HASL, and the 88 CCC boards will be ENIG with gold fingers. Cost will be just $25 + shipping for a full set of all 5 PCBs.

To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/cromemco/CANV55Os9trQyJ3NdArV-39RO9scH%2BGC0cc2S%3DFXvnvaFf_YhYw%40mail.gmail.com.

[Peter Higgins]

Sourcing the Mostek MK4008-9 or AMI S4008-9 which were originally specified for use as the image sensor on the Cyclops is not going to be easy. I have contacted several shops worldwide that listed them as available on their web site, but all responded they actually had none in stock.

The newer faster versions of the MK4008-9 (like the MK4008-7 and MK4008-6) are still available at several retailers and on eBay, but these versions have refresh times of 2ms (vs 1ms for the -9 version) which may not allow them to function as effectively as an image sensor. Also available on eBay is the MK4008 (no speed code) which was probably the version first shipped by Mostek, but I have not been able to find a data sheet specific to that version to find out its specified access and refresh time.

Does anyone have a stash of these who would be willing to part with a few to people who are purchasing Aron's board set? Has anyone here experimented with using versions of the MK4008 other than the originally specified -9 version, to find out if they work in this application?

[Peter Higgins]

Re sourcing the AMI S4008-9 - there is currently one eBay seller who has a stock of them. eBay seller name is "LittleDiode" and the part is simply listed as "S4008-9" but I have confirmed it is the AMI part we are looking for. Cost is $US 33 each, plus $US 10  for shipping.

[Aron Hoekstra]

Ouch! pricey but cool to know at least someone has them. So who has experience removing the lids from these things? Not sure I want to go chiseling way, having never done it before. How hard are they to remove?

To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/cromemco/140eda40-80fe-4294-b97f-cfebcd03fd78n%40googlegroups.com.

[wh.su...@verizon.net]

Terry Walker has told me that you can get them off with a hot air system but I had no luck with that. In fact, I ruined one that way.  I use a fresh, very sharp razor blade knife, carefully cutting a lip under one corner of the lid. I should add that I have a mini vise (I think it's a yost) with plastic jaw inserts that I hold the chip with. Once you have a good lip, stop and carefully clean off all of the solder debris. If you don't, you will end up with bits on your chip and permanent spots on your image. (Ask me how I know) Next, bend up the corner with a stronger knife blade (the razor will crack and chip).  Finally, grab the upturned corner with a good pair of pliers and roll it open like a can of sardines. 

To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/cromemco/CAD9iBD%2BH5N0Q4sr23mzB5oqny2pF8izrUh3HtUp%3DXsCkdZLYeA%40mail.gmail.com.

[wh.su...@verizon.net]

One thing to add...

The chips are going to be pricey but unfortunately, I think you will find that the Pomona 3301 enclosure is even harder to find and more expensive when you do.

On Wednesday, April 1, 2026 at 03:44:02 PM EDT, Aron Hoekstra <null...@gmail.com> wrote:

To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/cromemco/CAD9iBD%2BH5N0Q4sr23mzB5oqny2pF8izrUh3HtUp%3DXsCkdZLYeA%40mail.gmail.com.

[Peter Higgins]

The Pomona 3301 or 3302 is still in active production but as you said it is pricey ($US 76 at Mouser).

Do you recall where you sourced the lens for the reproduction you built?

[wh.su...@verizon.net]

I bought a bunch of d-mount lenses on ebay. The Popular Electronics cover is an elgeet lens.  Cromemco made their own lens to go with the S100 Cyclops. Another caution: the Pomona aluminum is on the delicate side. You need to be very careful and use a lot of lubricant. It's very easy to "wobble out" a hole that's too big while you're drilling or to strip it when you're cutting the threads. 

To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/cromemco/cfbc04f8-f8d7-4d5a-88ac-2fe9fdd67750n%40googlegroups.com.

[wh.su...@verizon.net]

I should add that (obviously, in my opinion) you should really use a good drill press to drill and tap the lens mount hole.

To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/cromemco/1839801366.2544620.1775089448939%40mail.yahoo.com.

[Peter Higgins]

... and I believe a D-mount lens has a 5/8 x 32 thread

[Peter Higgins]

Bill - can I trouble you with a couple more questions?

Regarding the LEDs that provide the optical bias for the sensor. Cromemco's design specified these to be HP 5082-4684, which is an obsolete 3mm red LED with a current draw of 20mA. Likely a modern LED, which is typically brighter with much lower current requirements, won't work properly in this application. Perhaps any "vintage" red LED will do, but what did you use?

Q2, 3, and 4 were specified as (now obsolete) 2N3646 transistors, and it does not look like those were used in the reproduction. Presumably these can be replaced by the common 2N2222 or 2N3904 ?

[William Sudbrink]

Hi,

 

For LEDs, I have a bag that I got in the late 1990s.  I labeled it “Altair/IMSAI spares”.  Other than that, I don’t know what they are.  Like it says on the label, they drop right in to an Altair or IMSAI front panel and look “right” (don’t stand out among the original LEDs).  I only have twenty or so left, so no, sorry, they are not for sale.  On the other hand, the visible light is not actually the issue.  The 4008s are actually more sensitive to IR light.  If you look closely at the pictures on my web site, you will see that I have put some folded up tin foil in the front of my enclosure.  This causes more light to be reflected back to the 4008, “warming” it up better for an image if required.  Those LEDs are under software control and you can turn them on or off as the situation requires.  If it turns out that you need less warmup, you can put white paper or even gaffer tape in the enclosure instead.  Terry’s Cyclops does not have anything in it (again, look at the picture) and doesn’t need it.  You can also fool around with tilting the sensor board and bending the LEDs towards or away from the 4008.  Finally, potentiometer R2 controls current to the LEDs and gives you some more adjustment should it be required.

 

For Q1, Q2 and Q3 on board ACC-3 (the 3646s… I don’t think there’s a Q4 anywhere), I have a small stock of “glob tops” that I use for making “Popular Electronics” cameras and Moto MPS3646 trannies that work just fine.  I got them all from ebay back around 2015.  I probably overpaid, but I really wanted to see a Cyclops work.  Again, sorry, mine aren’t for sale.  I just looked on ebay and there are a bunch.  While I know ICs on ebay can be dicey, I’ve never heard of anyone faking trannies.  Certainly not the glob tops.

 

Bill S.

 

From: crom...@googlegroups.com [mailto:crom...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Peter Higgins
Sent: Thursday, April 02, 2026 2:57 PM
To: Cromemco <crom...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: Cromemco Cyclops 88 CCC board set reproduction

 

Bill - can I trouble you with a couple more questions?

 

Regarding the LEDs that provide the optical bias for the sensor. Cromemco's design specified these to be HP 5082-4684, which is an obsolete 3mm red LED with a current draw of 20mA. Likely a modern LED, which is typically brighter with much lower current requirements, won't work properly in this application. Perhaps any "vintage" red LED will do, but what did you use?

 

Q2, 3, and 4 were specified as (now obsolete) 2N3646 transistors, and it does not look like those were used in the reproduction Presumably these can be replaced by the common 2N2222 or 2N3904 ?

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C U L8r,  °|°  Walt Perko  °|°        "Kids .. teach them the good stuff, and they still learn the bad stuff on their own."

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[Peter Higgins]

Thanks for your comments. It sounds like any "vintage" red LED that looks like it was made in the 1970s will do - likely most of us have a few of those lying around, else they are not too difficult to source from eBay. As for the vintage "glob top" 2N3646, since they are available on eBay it is not essential that a substitute be used.

[wpe...@brainless.org]

Hi,

 

Can’t you just use a larger resistor between the LEDs and GND for a dimmer LED? 

 

 

 

 

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C U L8r,  °|°  Walt Perko  °|°        "Kids ... teach them the good stuff, and they still learn the bad stuff on their own."

 

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[Peter Higgins]

On Thursday, April 2, 2026 at 2:34:25 PM UTC-7 Walt Perko wrote:

Can’t you just use a larger resistor between the LEDs and GND for a dimmer LED? 

The design uses a transistor (controlled by a potentiometer) to vary the current flow to these two LEDs. As I mentioned, newer LEDs produce more light output with as little as a tenth of the current flow of these vintage LEDs. Adding more resistance in series with the LEDs will certainly dim the light output, but because there are two variables (reduced current requirement, and higher LED efficiency) some experimentation would be necessary to figure out the optimal amount of resistance required and whether that would allow the light output to be adjustable within the range required. I expect the original designers did a fair bit of trial and error work to figure this out.

[William Sudbrink]

There is a potentiometer (R2 on board ACC-2) that serves that purpose.

 

From: crom...@googlegroups.com [mailto:crom...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of wpe...@brainless.org
Sent: Thursday, April 02, 2026 5:35 PM
To: crom...@googlegroups.com
Subject: RE: Cromemco Cyclops 88 CCC board set reproduction

 

Hi,

 

Can’t you just use a larger resistor between the LEDs and GND for a dimmer LED? 

 

 

 

 

==============================================================================================
C U L8r,  °|°  Walt Perko  °|°        "Kids ... teach them the good stuff, and they still learn the bad stuff on their own."

http://www.R2Pv1.com/  RoboGuts™ Intelligent content for 3D printing making S.T.E.A.M. education better, easier and more affordable 

 

Experiments to learn how to use various Electronic Components, Structured Computer Programming, Phonemes for Speech &Song in any language, and Art.

                         "The World Needs a New Economic Model"
==============================================================================================

            Sent from the Cyber7

 

 

From: 'William Sudbrink' via Cromemco <crom...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, April 2, 2026 1:45 PM
To: crom...@googlegroups.com
Subject: RE: Cromemco Cyclops 88 CCC board set reproduction

 

Hi,

 

For LEDs, I have a bag that I got in the late 1990s.  I labeled it “Altair/IMSAI spares”.  Other than that, I don’t know what they are.  Like it says on the label, they drop right in to an Altair or IMSAI front panel and look “right” (don’t stand out among the original LEDs).  I only have twenty or so left, so no, sorry, they are not for sale.  On the other hand, the visible light is not actually the issue.  The 4008s are actually more sensitive to IR light.  If you look closely at the pictures on my web site, you will see that I have put some folded up tin foil in the front of my enclosure.  This causes more light to be reflected back to the 4008, “warming” it up better for an image if required.  Those LEDs are under software control and you can turn them on or off as the situation requires.  If it turns out that you need less warmup, you can put white paper or even gaffer tape in the enclosure instead.  Terry’s Cyclops does not have anything in it (again, look at the picture) and doesn’t need it.  You can also fool around with tilting the sensor board and bending the LEDs towards or away from the 4008  Finally, potentiometer R2 controls current to the LEDs and gives you some more adjustment should it be required.

To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/cromemco/CAD9iBDJ3NBJW0YSWZC255V-xxrMXqK79qSuBe28d2Uh-WL3%2Brw%40mailgmail.com.

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