Collective assessment of need for public high-res imagery of Chile

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Jean-Guilhem Cailton

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Mar 2, 2010, 11:55:26 PM3/2/10
to OSM-Talk-Chile, h...@openstreetmap.org, crisismap...@googlegroups.com, OSM-Talk-Haiti, OSM-talk
Dear all,

Satellite image providers are apparently holding off high-res images of
Chile from public access.

This is an attempt at a collective assessment of need.

Based on your knowledge of the situation in Chile, and possibly of your
experience mapping Haiti thanks to publicly available high-res imagery,

could you please write up your testimony or assessment of need for
public high-res images of Chile ?


Think that you are writing for a journalist so:

- try to keep it short, because he (or she) is often in a hurry,

- be simple, because he may not be a specialist of mapping or of
satellite images,

- give specific examples or facts.


Send your assessment of need to h...@openstreetmap.org and
crisismap...@googlegroups.com .


Thanks,

Jean-Guilhem


Chile earthquake imagery that can currently be used by OpenStreetMap for
tracing:

http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/2010_Chile_earthquake/Imagery_and_data_sources

Chris

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Mar 3, 2010, 1:16:29 AM3/3/10
to CrisisMappers-Chile
I wouldn't be so sure of that; a few observations:

First and foremost, it has been cloudy.

Secondly, there is a LOT of discussion going on, with a well-
functioning government, through well established channels, that isn't
necessarily posted to this Google Group. That includes all well-known
sources of imagery, software, and support services.

Thirdly, Haiti was a VERY special case. For a lot of reasons, a vast
amount of imagery was made available for free, and an ecosystem
instantly rose to the occaision and filled a relative void with
beautiful maps. Although the case can be made that, due to results of
the past few weeks with OSM, imagery SHOULD be free for Chile, that is
not by ANY means a general policy. Seriously, what were the valuable
assets? things with resolutions of less than one meter. Would you
suggest that, overnight, because of Haiti, every provider, satellite
and aerial, should just say: "oh! you guys are right...I think I'll
just forget about covering costs and give it all away...every time"

Finally, to address item 3) the Disaster Charter mechanism was
established. It augments item 2), and was not constructed around the
paradigm of "crowdsourcing". Rather, it was constructed to use space
assets to minimize loss of life and infrastructure, by allowing access
by "participating agencies", which is a well-defined term. Arguing the
case to equate "crowdsourcing" with "participating agencies" is a
topic for dicussion with the charter members. NGA, as represented by
USGS, is the member representing DigitalGlobe and GeoEye.

There are decent maps. UN-SPIDER is project manager for space asset
coordination, as per the disaster charter protocol; Chile's civil
defense ministry, ONEMI , is the consumer. More detailed info on the
emergency ops sitrep can be found on ReliefWeb, at:
http://www.reliefweb.int/rw/rwb.nsf/db900SID/MUMA-8377RG?OpenDocument&rc=2&emid=EQ-2010-000034-CHL

ESRI/Chile, Autodesk Latina America, and others has been working in
Chile, and with the government, for a very long time; i.e. there are a
lot of other, pre-existing channels being exercised. I don't have time
to discover and cross-post everything.

But don't presume nothing is going on. Rather, this situation, (and
every situation is different) is a lot different than Haiti, i.e.
Crisismappers/Google Group is only one, of several, tools in the shed
to fight the fire.

If someone on this list wants to step up and start writing checks to
make imagery available for free to all, that would be great!

But don't presume ONEMI can't access all the imagery that's available.

Chris Nicholas

> http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/2010_Chile_earthquake/Imagery_and_...

Chris

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Mar 3, 2010, 1:36:40 AM3/3/10
to CrisisMappers-Chile
re-reading your original post, I would rephrase the fundamental
question to be:

"who beyond ONEMI needs imagery, and why?"

Chris Nicholas

Jean-Guilhem Cailton

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Mar 3, 2010, 2:18:45 AM3/3/10
to crisismap...@googlegroups.com
Chris a écrit :
I wouldn't be so sure of that; a few observations:

First and foremost, it has been cloudy.
  
I have seen clear Digital Globe Worldview-1 images (5 out of 6), and RapidEye3 image over Concepción. (Not with full resolution).

Secondly, there is a LOT of discussion going on, with a well-
functioning government, through well established channels, that isn't
necessarily posted to this Google Group. That includes all well-known
sources of imagery, software, and support services.

Thirdly, Haiti was a VERY special case. For a lot of reasons, a vast
amount of imagery was made available for free, and an ecosystem
instantly rose to the occaision and filled a relative void with
beautiful maps. Although the case can be made that, due to results of
the past few weeks with OSM, imagery SHOULD be free for Chile, that is
not by ANY means a general policy.  Seriously, what were the valuable
assets? things with resolutions of less than one meter.  Would you
suggest that, overnight, because of Haiti, every provider, satellite
and aerial, should just say: "oh! you guys are right...I think I'll
just forget about covering costs and give it all away...every time"
  
Who says they are the ones that should cover costs ?

Finally, to address item 3) the Disaster Charter mechanism was
established. It augments item 2), and was not constructed around the
paradigm of "crowdsourcing". Rather, it was constructed to use space
assets to minimize loss of life and infrastructure, by allowing access
by "participating agencies", which is a well-defined term. Arguing the
case to equate "crowdsourcing" with "participating agencies" is a
topic for dicussion with the charter members.  NGA, as represented by
USGS, is the member representing DigitalGlobe and GeoEye.
  
Who is equating "crowdsourcing" with "participating agencies" ?

(by the way, I do not like this word. It does little justice to the kind of collaborative effort we have just witnessed. For me, "crowd" is somehow associated with uncontrolled movements of a large physical group of people, that can easily behave much worse than they would do individually).

There are decent maps. UN-SPIDER is project manager for space asset
coordination, as per the disaster charter protocol; Chile's civil
defense ministry, ONEMI , is the consumer. More detailed info on the
emergency ops sitrep can be found on ReliefWeb, at:
http://www.reliefweb.int/rw/rwb.nsf/db900SID/MUMA-8377RG?OpenDocument&rc=2&emid=EQ-2010-000034-CHL

ESRI/Chile, Autodesk Latina America, and others has been working in
Chile, and with the government, for a very long time; i.e. there are a
lot of other, pre-existing channels being exercised. I don't have time
to discover and cross-post everything.

But don't presume nothing is going on. 
I don't.

Rather, this situation, (and
every situation is different) is a lot different than Haiti, i.e.
Crisismappers/Google Group is only one, of several, tools in the shed
to fight the fire.

If someone on this list wants to step up and start writing checks to
make imagery available for free to all, that would be great!

But don't presume ONEMI can't access all the imagery that's available.
  
I don't !


Chris Nicholas

On Mar 2, 8:55 pm, Jean-Guilhem Cailton <j...@arkemie.com> wrote:
  
Dear all,

Satellite image providers are apparently holding off high-res images of
Chile from public access.

This is an attempt at a collective assessment of need.

Based on your knowledge of the situation in Chile, and possibly of your
experience mapping Haiti thanks to publicly available high-res imagery,

could you please write up your testimony or assessment of need for
public high-res images of Chile ?

Think that you are writing for a journalist so:

- try to keep it short, because he (or she) is often in a hurry,

- be simple, because he may not be a specialist of mapping or of
satellite images,

- give specific examples or facts.

Send your assessment of need to h...@openstreetmap.org and
crisismap...@googlegroups.com .

Thanks,

Jean-Guilhem

Chile earthquake imagery that can currently be used by OpenStreetMap for
tracing:

http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/2010_Chile_earthquake/Imagery_and_...
    

  

For your information:


Onemi refuta críticas de la Armada y acusa "ambigüedad" en alerta de tsunami

http://www.emol.com/noticias/nacional/detalle/detallenoticias.asp?idnoticia=401402


Armada admite "poca claridad" en alerta de tsunami y asume responsabilidad en muertes

http://www.emol.com/noticias/nacional/detalle/detallenoticias.asp?idnoticia=401395



There is nothing against Chile or Chilean institutions in the evaluation suggestion. Your assessment may be that there is no need. Thank you for this. (But it did not have to get so personal.)


It happens that France was also badly hit by floods recently. If you look at the news, you'll see that established authorities "may" also have some responsibilities.

An eminent risk specialist has said this recalled him of Katrina.

That it is a natural tendency of administrations to think within their frame of thought. Not to brainstorm about whatever "unexpected" *could* happen.


This is precisely why i make this call to collective intelligence and responsibility.

Personally, the main lesson that I learn from, e.g., CrisisMappers recent appraisal, or OSM (and other "open") contributions for Haiti, is that it _can_ work.


Sincerely yours,

Jean-Guilhem

Jean-Guilhem Cailton

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Mar 3, 2010, 2:32:14 AM3/3/10
to crisismap...@googlegroups.com
Chris a écrit :
So please let us know everything that ONEMI and everybody is doing, and
everything that anybody could need.

Without a perfect global view of everything that is going on, it is
difficult to answer correctly to your question.

And if there is anyone with that view, he (or she) is probably too busy
at the moment to care about us.

I think it is easier to answer a bottom-up question: what do _you_
think, from your point of view ?

Jean-Guilhem

David Stevens

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Mar 3, 2010, 2:51:58 AM3/3/10
to crisismap...@googlegroups.com, OSM-Talk-Chile, h...@openstreetmap.org, OSM-Talk-Haiti, OSM-talk, crisis...@googlegroups.com
Jean-Guilhem

Let me put forward a few more ideas on top of what Chris put forward.

First of all I do want to confirm that we know how relevant the work carried out within CrisisMappers is. Here at UN-SPIDER there are several of us following closely the postings. Having said that I do question how much of the relevant analysis and map products actually were used/are being used by the UN and other responding agencies on the ground in Haiti (here I am thinking specifically of the map products). We will be evaluating this next week when we meet with the Civil Protection Agency in PaP. My view is that the UN should have used it more and there is a need to integrate more closely. We have a UN-SPIDER International Workshop in Bonn in October and we will take the opportunity of this international gathering of experts to evaluate exactly that (among other topics): how can we as UN build upon wider opportunities including CrisisMappers.

Then regarding access to imagery Chris correctly pointed out that all imagery is being made available for free use by Chilean institutions as well as all NGOs and international organisations directly supporting these institutions We list the imagery on our webpage

http://www.un-spider.org/chile

We also list the updated target areas for imagery and also the list of Chilean institutions that are coordinating the efforts. Notice that Chile has designated specific people to coordinate this international effort.

If anyone on this list is directly supporting the efforts at the request of the Chilean government and does not have access to the resources listed on the webpage then please send me an email (david....@unoosa.org) so we can help get access.

In turn I will prepare a list of the known ongoing efforts which we know have started and post this list. Two such efforts is G-MOSAIC and ITHACA.

Chile is a different working environment but also an opportunity for this wider international community to have a stronger impact in the decision process as long as we can ensure that the work carried out is done closely with a Chilean institution involved in the response.

Finally I do want to point out that the norm is not to have access to free imagery for wider public use. Right now we at UN-SPIDER are looking at getting imagery for two other disasters which are not receiving wide attention: the landslide in Uganda and the emerging situation in Kiev with possible record floods over the next couple of weeks.

And one last final input: once you have an assessment which will definitely show how useful public access to free imagery is in supporting response efforts we will be the first to work with you to raise awareness of the need to wide access to imagery for any disaster (and not just the ones that hit the media attention)

Regards

David

David Stevens
Programme Coordinator
UN-SPIDER
United Nations Office for Outer Space Affairs
Vienna - Austria
Tel. ++43-(1)-26060-5631 - Skype: tazarkount
Mobile +43 - 699 1459-5631 -  E-Mail david.stevens@unoosa.org
--
David STEVENS
Vienna - Austria
skype: tazarkount

Jean-Guilhem Cailton

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Mar 3, 2010, 4:04:44 AM3/3/10
to crisismap...@googlegroups.com, crisis...@googlegroups.com
David,

Thank you for your answer.

David Stevens a écrit :
Jean-Guilhem

Let me put forward a few more ideas on top of what Chris put forward.

First of all I do want to confirm that we know how relevant the work carried out within CrisisMappers is. Here at UN-SPIDER there are several of us following closely the postings. Having said that I do question how much of the relevant analysis and map products actually were used/are being used by the UN and other responding agencies on the ground in Haiti (here I am thinking specifically of the map products).
We have an on-going effort to help disseminate the use of OSM to Haitians and relief workers on the ground, through diaspora and involved NGOs.

We are also involved in the Haiti Health Facilities Working Group, led by PAHO (Pan-American Health Organisation) and HHS (US Department of Health and Human Services).

We will be evaluating this next week when we meet with the Civil Protection Agency in PaP. My view is that the UN should have used it more and there is a need to integrate more closely. We have a UN-SPIDER International Workshop in Bonn in October and we will take the opportunity of this international gathering of experts to evaluate exactly that (among other topics): how can we as UN build upon wider opportunities including CrisisMappers.

Then regarding access to imagery Chris correctly pointed out that all imagery is being made available for free use by Chilean institutions as well as all NGOs and international organisations directly supporting these institutions We list the imagery on our webpage

http://www.un-spider.org/chile

We also list the updated target areas for imagery and also the list of Chilean institutions that are coordinating the efforts. Notice that Chile has designated specific people to coordinate this international effort.

If anyone on this list is directly supporting the efforts at the request of the Chilean government and does not have access to the resources listed on the webpage then please send me an email (david....@unoosa.org) so we can help get access.
The problem from OpenStreetMap point of view is that this policy hinders OSM involvement in the relief effort. (As explained by Mikel elsewhere in this group).

After seeing the usefulness of OSM effort in Haiti, it is difficult to witness this passively.


In turn I will prepare a list of the known ongoing efforts which we know have started and post this list. Two such efforts is G-MOSAIC and ITHACA.

Chile is a different working environment but also an opportunity for this wider international community to have a stronger impact in the decision process as long as we can ensure that the work carried out is done closely with a Chilean institution involved in the response.
OSM is fortunate to have an active community in Chile, that had already achieved a remarkable quality of mapping. We are actively working with them, and trying to support them as best we can.


Finally I do want to point out that the norm is not to have access to free imagery for wider public use. Right now we at UN-SPIDER are looking at getting imagery for two other disasters which are not receiving wide attention: the landslide in Uganda and the emerging situation in Kiev with possible record floods over the next couple of weeks.
There are, for instance, very significant OSM mapping efforts going on in Albania and Kosovo. Flooding in Albania resumed, after the initial January event. More imagery would have been nice there too.

If the information you have access to makes you think that OSM volunteers efforts would be useful in specific parts of the World, please let us know. I am sure there is enough variety within the OSM community to find interests for collaborating on various events and contexts.


And one last final input: once you have an assessment which will definitely show how useful public access to free imagery is in supporting response efforts we will be the first to work with you to raise awareness of the need to wide access to imagery for any disaster (and not just the ones that hit the media attention)
This is exactly what we are trying to achieve.


Regards

David

David Stevens
Programme Coordinator
UN-SPIDER
United Nations Office for Outer Space Affairs
Vienna - Austria
Tel. ++43-(1)-26060-5631 - Skype: tazarkount
Mobile +43 - 699 1459-5631 -  E-Mail david.stevens@unoosa.org

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