A question for those who believe in things that should not agree

[Spy]

I don't see how God and evolution go together. I know that some
people believe in both, so I would love to hear what others think.

[Bob]

"God created the universe in such a way that life and subsequent
evolution was possible/necessary."

Whether 'God' exists or not, the universe is such that evolution
happens.

Now you need to decide whether your God is great enough to fall into
line with the above fact.

That the Universe exists, in the way it does, is indisputable.

That your God exists is open to debate.

[Caleb Freeman]

   My God is the one true God and is bigger than a universe with evolution.  I believe that God created everything and saw that it was good as it says in Genesis.  Not only is there the creation account, but there is this verse in Romans too.

 

Romans 5:12

Therefore, just as through one man sin entered into the world, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men, because al sinned-

 

This would mean that death came after man and that means no survival of the fittest. 

 

There is a lot of proof for the Bible like arcaeology for example.  The Dead Sea Scrolls have the old writings which are almost identical to what we have now.  Also, many prophecies have been fulfilled.  I can give examples in a future message if you would like.  As for the errors, they can be explained when looking back at the Hebrew and Greek which were the original languages. 

 

Even if I did not believe the Bible, I may still question evolution.  In a micro sense it can not be denied.  There is dog breeding and so forth.  I just do not believe in species evolving into completelly new species.  There are several scientific reasons.  One is that things are too complex.  In Darwin's day, cellls were thought to be simple building blocks of life.  Now we know how designed they are.  They have many parts and need them all.  They could not evolve because it would take time where the cell could not function because of lack of certain things.  And it would not make sense for life to come from non-life. 

 

If things are suposed to go from order to chaos, then God should have just made everything.  It is not logical that he would create some and let it evolve.  He is a good God and things would only get worse.

 

There are other reasons to doubt but I will leave you with this for now.

[Bob]

On 3 Apr, 04:28, "Caleb Freeman" <chesspeace...@gmail.com> wrote:
>    My God is the one true God and is bigger than a universe with evolution.

Hmmm. That is one mighty big God. Which would be biggger though: a
'shazam' god or one that was subtle enough to create a universe which
had the necessary qualities for the universe we see now to have
developed. After all, it's not like any god would be in a great hurry.

> I believe that God created everything and saw that it was good as it says in
> Genesis.  Not only is there the creation account, but there is this verse in
> Romans too.
>
> Romans 5:12
> Therefore, just as through one man sin entered into the world, and death
> through sin, and so death spread to all men, because al sinned-

If you really want to get into a literal bible, then you will have to
explain the many internal inconsistencies and wholly illogical
stories. You will also need to explain why the god of your bible finds
his creation so imperfect that she has to keep fiddling with it to
correct its faults.

>
> This would mean that death came after man and that means no survival of the
> fittest.
>
> There is a lot of proof for the Bible like arcaeology for example.  The Dead
> Sea Scrolls have the old writings which are almost identical to what we have
> now.  Also, many prophecies have been fulfilled.  I can give examples in a
> future message if you would like.  As for the errors, they can be explained
> when looking back at the Hebrew and Greek which were the original
> languages.
>

Some agreement between stuff written in a book and historically
verifiable facts does not make a book true.

> Even if I did not believe the Bible, I may still question evolution.  In a
> micro sense it can not be denied.

Many micros make a macro.

> I just do not believe in species evolving into completelly new species.  

That's the beauty of science. You don't have to believe anything. Just
investigate and uncover reality.

> There are several scientific reasons.  One is that things are too complex.  In
> Darwin's day, cellls were thought to be simple building blocks of life.  Now
> we know how designed they are.

Not true. There is no evidence for 'design'. If you think there is
then please give me your evidence.

>  They have many parts and need them all.

Rather like my car needs all its bits to work. My grandfathers car,
however, got along fine without loads of stuff essential for mine.

> They could not evolve because it would take time where the cell could not
> function because of lack of certain things.

Ever seen an archway being made out of bricks? How could such a thing
be built brick by brick without falling down? There is an answer! (I
will leave the pleasure of discovering it to you.) Which is an analogy
for how something whose existence in anything but a final form seems
to be impossible.

> And it would not make sense for
> life to come from non-life.

Life from non-life is exactly what you are proposing, from a biblical
point of view.

> If things are suposed to go from order to chaos, then God should have just
> made everything.  It is not logical that he would create some and let it
> evolve.  He is a good God and things would only get worse.

You are a bit confused here, Caleb. You witness the creation of
'order' every minute of your day: Plants and children growing, your
new computer. God hasn't 'just made' any of these. Unless his myriad
tiny fingers are constantly at work everywhere!

> There are other reasons to doubt but I will leave you with this for now.

I hope they are more challenging than the 'reasons' given so far. Let
me guess, Caleb, you are still young and don't have a very deep
education in any area, especially science, yet?

[Caleb Freeman]

   It is interesting though because everyone in biology admits that things appear to be designed.  Some people just don't want to believe in a god.  If God really died and rose again, which is the root of the gospel and I believe it, then he must be powerful and it would take less faith for me to believe that he created everything.

[Caleb Freeman]

   For those who don't believe in God, I've got news for you.  I can prove scientifically that there was design.  The first law of thermodinamics.  Matter can not be created or destroyed, it can only be changed from one form to another.  If this is true, then you can't go from nothing to something.  The only other two options are that the universe has always existed or that there was design.  Scientifically, the universe could not have always existed.  if you have something that is hot and something that is cold sitting out long enough, then they will eventually become the same temerature.  Commets are cold and stars are hot.  If the universe has existed forever, then this would not be true.  I've eliminated the other options.  Design is the only logical choice left.

[manny]

Do you know that everything in the Universe it's just form of
molecules which is too small
very small now even you are part of that molecules which is the
smallest portion of a substance
capable of indepandent existance while retaining the proprties of that
substance.
now,though molecules are small they compose of even smaller perticles
known as atoms.
So how great God is now to you if you think of it this way.

> > people believe in both, so I would love to hear what others think.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

[Spy]

That sounds like more evidence to me for design. conditions need
to be right for chemical bonding and if things randomly happened then
who can say if we would have anything that appears desighed. As I say
many times, even if there was some evolution beyond the micro level,
where did life come from. There is no good way to answer that that I
know of besides design.

[godsadoptedson]

Evolution is a fairly tale set up for those who wish to not belive in
God and want to explain how things come about. There has never been a
transitional fossil and never will be. The fossil record that
evolutionist fall back on only speaks of a major event... like for
example a world wide flood. That would case such a record. As for the
grand canyon being carved over millions of years of slow moving ice in
the ice age... What about an example of what the flood did over a
short period of 40 days and nights?

[jamesn]

If the universe has
> existed forever, then this would not be true. I've eliminated the other
> options. Design is the only logical choice left.

True the universe as we can see it has only existed for a finite peiod
of time. However, you merely make an arguement from lack of
imagination to suggest that a designer must be the cause. All you have
demonstrated is that you cannot find an answer and have instead
inserted a creator.

[Spy]

It isn't that I have a lack of imagination, but that it seems that
without at least some design, scientific law must be broken for things
to come into existence. If God is creator then that seems logical to
me but if not, how is it scientifically possible for things to come
into being? If God didn't do it then natural laws can not be broken
because there is no supernatural.

[Stonethatbleeds]

YOU SAY DESIGN AND THEN SAY RANDOM AND EXTREMES.


lIFE COMES FROM formation IN EXTREMES CUSED BY THE LINKING OF A JACKET
AND ENGINE TOPERMIT FUNCTION AND DIVISION OF THE INSIDE FROM THE
OUTSIDE...
A LITTLE MORE COMPLICATED IN EVENTS TO MAKE BUT IS COMMON ALL THOUGHT
THE UNIVERSE... A BIT OF COMET, A BIT OF UNDERSEA VOLCANO VENT AND
SOME NEAR SURFACE ACTION AND A STORM WITH LIGHTING AND YOU GOT WHAT
YOU WOULD CALL A ABUNDANT MIX... THEN LIFE OF THE MOST FUNDAMENTAL OF
ALL KINDS.... THEN CHANGE IN CONDITIONS AND FORCED CHANGE... TO SOME
BUT NOT ALL AND THEN THE MIX BACK AND FOR OF KINDS AND SURVIVAL OF THE
FITTEST OF ALL CAMPS CREATED.
Life is very common in the universe...Human life leavels are rare!
Earth is lucky to have humans or cursed to have them as they preven
the passing of life to other worlds.

God is not a being but a state and path and oth to the WORD that was
before God we made and now makes us.

[Stonethatbleeds]

not true...life is made and if you think it so special ask God that is
the result of the good path not the result of ape limited minds that
can't grasp the larger picture any more than dog know the moon is the
moon.

[Stonethatbleeds]

The Universe was created by 2 rogue singularities with opposite spin
and high opposing speeds.
when they hit it made the big bang nad other copies of it in much
smaller singularities and even stars to prove it is so and no other
way was the Universe created... then again you have the vanity to call
this big bang even Universe when it is a speck inside of it as grain
of sand in your big bang.
mind of humans are what they are told and so limited by the masters of
them.

> > options.  Design is the only logical choice left.- Hide quoted text -

[SugarDaddy]

@Spy: "I don't see how God and evolution go together. I know that

some
people believe in both, so I would love to hear what others think. "

Well, my question to you would be, do you believe that God and Physics
go together? If God created the laws of Physics that govern mass,
energy and matter, then it is not a far leap from there to accept that
God also created the laws of the Evolution of life. Because really
that is all the Theory of Evolution describes -- how lifeforms exist
and persist in an environment.

"... conditions need to be right for chemical bonding and if things

randomly happened then who can say if we would have anything that
appears desighed. As I say many times, even if there was some
evolution beyond the micro level, where did life come from. There is
no good way to answer that that I know of besides design."

I'm sorry, that is not evidence for at all. Amino acids are the
building blocks of life. They are extremely prevalent in nature.
There are many combinations that can form up to create DNA. It is not
hard to believe that over BILLIONS of years that such a combination
would come together to create life. It it hard to think about a
billion years because it is such a massive number. It is more than
100 million (100,000,000) lifetimes of man. The earth is estimated to
be about 4.6 BILLION years old, and a billion or 2 of those years it
was molten. So life had over 2 BILLION years to arise. It may have
even arrived on a meteor. We may never know.

And once you have DNA, Evolution begins. After thousands of years,
new organisms arise by expanding and changing the DNA of the past.
These changes can also be influenced from the environment. So what we
have is an almost symbiotic system of DNA and environment. Over time,
the environment allows certain mutations to succeed over old life
forms and the new life forms prosper. This has nothing to do with
design. Design is a top down view that starts with the most
"advanced" life form and fills in the gap with the iteratively more
primitive forms of life. There has never been a shred of evidence to
support such a hypothesis, but Evolution has already been demonstrated
in a lab.

"It isn't that I have a lack of imagination, but that it seems that
without at least some design, scientific law must be broken for things
to come into existence. If God is creator then that seems logical to
me but if not, how is it scientifically possible for things to come
into being? If God didn't do it then natural laws can not be broken
because there is no supernatural. "

The existence of a God that creates things out of thin air is
supernatural. A god that walks on water, turns water into wine,
raises the dead, cures the blind is supernatural. Those things are
magic. They violate the laws of physics. The formation of proteins
and the coming together of amino acids to form DNA is demonstrable in
a lab. And once you have that basic concept down, give it billions of
years to stir in a "primordial soup" and life will arise under the
right conditions which just so happen to exist on Earth (and
statistically on other planets throughout the massive universe).

It's not even about imagination. It's about understanding the
concepts. I feel sorry for you that you are learning this from an
internet newsgroup rather than in a classroom by an expert.

[Caleb Freeman]

   I do believe that God created the laws of physics but he cam opporate outside of those laws.  And there is some evolution in a micro sense of the word.  Creatures addapt and there is mixed breeding.  I believe in plate techtonics which plays an important role in evolution.  I just believe in a young earth and that God created everything.  It was likely man that started mixed breeding.  So I will not say that there is zero evolution, I just use the word differently than a lot of people do if I use it at all.

[Stonethatbleeds]

What you believe and what God say is completely different as you call
him a liar for you beliefs

[SugarDaddy]

Caleb, you are certainly free to believe in whatever you want. But a
true test of a person's integrity comes from how they change those
beliefs when faced with new evidence. For example, you can believe
that the moon is made of cheese. But through spectral analysis and
even by visiting the moon we can conclude with 100% confidence that it
is not made of cheese. Would you still believe the moon was made of
cheese after being presented with that evidence?

Likewise, you can believe that the earth is only 6000 years old. But
we know through radio isotope dating that the earth is approximately
4.6 BILLION years old. I'm sure you have heard this argument before.
So now when you say that you believe in a young Earth, there is no
where left for me to go in this discussion because you are essentially
telling me that you are willfully ignoring or completely discounting
hard evidence. This ignorance/discounting of the evidence makes it
extremely difficult to have a rational discussion on this topic. How
can we even begin to talk about the process of the evolution of life
being just another creation of God if we cannot even agree on the fact
that the Earth is approx. 4.6 x 10^9 years old?

Let's take a look at your "proof" from before and analyze it:

Quote of Caleb:

"For those who don't believe in God, I've got news for you. I can

prove that there was design. The first law of thermodinamics. can not

be created or destroyed, it can only be changed from one form to
another. If this is true, then you can't go from nothing to
something."

It is theorized that there was matter in the universe that existed as
one giant mass. Since mass is tied to gravity, this giant body which
contained all the matter in the universe grew so dense, and so hot
that it exploded. That is basically the Big Bang. There was matter.
We don't know where it came from, but all the matter in the universe
was there. It was not simply created out of nowhere. Please seek out
an expert if you wish to learn more.

Quote of Caleb:

"only other two options are that the universe has always existed or

that was design. Scientifically, the universe could not have always
if you have something that is hot and something that is cold out long
enough, then they will eventually become the same Commets are cold
and stars are hot. If the universe has forever, then this would not
be true. I've eliminated the other Design is the only logical choice
left."

Sorry, that's faulty logic. Yes, it is true (I think the 3rd law of
thermodynamics) that energy will always move from a higher
concentration to a lower concentration. So 2 objects of different
temperatures left in a room that have no other influences will
equalize temperature over time. This is not the case for stars and
comets because there are other influences. Stars are giant fusion
reactors combining hydrogen into helium and releasing massive amounts
of energy in the form of heat and light. Comets are large bodies of
ice, dust and gas that move around the galaxy. They generate no
energy as stars do. Your proof is bogus.

[Stonethatbleeds]

THE REAL PROBLEM IS THAT GOD NEVER ONE SINGLE TIME EVER CLAIMED TO BE
THE CREATOR! God claims not to be the creator as so many claim he is
wrongly. God indicated that he is from this Universe just a lot before
Humanity and nothing more on any level! Humans made up stuff and then
told each other lies and then ran with them as if truths.

[Penvox]

Man views these things as Miracles, because we do not know all and
cannot understand how they could be without the suspension of the laws
of nature. If we were all knowing and could understand ALL the laws of
nature like God does, then we could see that these ‘miracles’ are
produced by the superior knowledge of these laws.
A David Hume's analogy - If a prison warden allows a concert
in chapel, then he commits no violation or transgression of the rules,
because he calls for them within the limits of his own authority. But
if a lone guard does this for his own purposes and without permission,
then this would be a violation or transgression because he does not
act as a rightful authority. The existence of God lifts the analogy
beyond the human level. More than a warden, God does not violate or
transgress anything of his creation when miracles occur, because he is
the final authority over it. By annihilating a unit or units of mass/
energy, God could produce in nature an event that could not occur
otherwise without violating the laws of nature.

. The existence of a God that creates things out of thin air is

> > supernatural. Yes, it is Super Natural (and he creates by his word btw). But a nuclear explosion would have seemed supernatural and magical to those of a past century, same with space travel etc. I can skim over water with the help of a speed boat pulling me, does that defy the law of hydrostatics, that a person can't stand upright in water? Not when you add the laws of motion. This you can understand so it does not look like a miracle. But in Jesus time it would have. Alot of scientific beliefs from the past seem laughable and ignorant to us now. Remember when the science community stated as fact that the Sun revolved around the Earth? Every new generation discovers new facts that are the undisputed truth, until later disproved by more recent evidence. Why a hundred years from now some of the undiputable 'facts' ( that are used to belittle creationists usually accompanied by a *sigh ...ahh you dumb christians, you just don't undertand science...this is undisputable fact), may seem outdated. To assume that what is believed today, right now, is the be all and end all... why is this particular generation exempt from blunder?

> > internet newsgroup rather than in a classroom by an expert.- Hide quoted text -

[Caleb Freeman]

   I think God does opporate outside of natural law.  If not then God is limited by science.  God if he is creator should be greater than his creation.  Miracles are not meant to be explained.  They are supernatural.  They shouldn't be able to be explained.

[Stonethatbleeds]

On Jul 29, 1:51 pm, Penvox <bento...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Man views these things as Miracles, because we do not know all and
> cannot understand how they could be without the suspension of the laws
> of nature. If we were all knowing and could understand ALL the laws of
> nature like God does, then we could see that these ‘miracles’ are
> produced by the superior knowledge of these laws.
>           A David Hume's analogy - If a prison warden allows a concert
> in chapel, then he commits no violation or transgression of the rules,
> because he calls for them within the limits of his own authority.

NOT TRUE!
CHAPEL IS ALWAYS IN THE PRISON LIMITS AND THE GUARDS RULE AND WATCH
THE MEN. ALS ONLY PRISONERS EXPECTED TO ACT RIGHT ARE PERMITTED AND
THE OTJHERS ARE NOT! WHAT YOU DO NOT SEE A LOT IS A MINISTER COME TO
THEM THAT ARE REJECTED...THEY PLAY THE GAME LIKE ALL OTHER AND SERVE
THE ONES THAT COME AND GO NOT LOOKING FOR THE ONES THAT NEED TO BE
FOUND!

>But
> if a lone guard does this for his own purposes and without permission,
> then this would be a violation or transgression because he does not
> act as a rightful authority.

Lone guards are not eny more or less special than your minister and so
can use the chapel with the same security given by PRISON Athority....
youtr minister is a human and so treated as one but has no special
powers in any prison fo the USA or Canada...make your dellusions go
away!

The existence of God lifts the analogy
> beyond the human level. More than a warden, God does not violate or
> transgress anything of his creation when miracles occur, because he is
> the final authority over it.

God does not make miracles for you are told his kingdom does that
proving God is not this other thing people think as omni-potant and
omni-present.
Both of wich God himself denies and so does Jesus.

By annihilating a unit or units of mass/
> energy, God could produce in nature an event that could not occur
> otherwise without violating the laws of nature.

learn your physics and know God diod not make this UNIVERSE... TWO
super singularities (BLACK HOLE CORE) hit each other WITH OPPOSING
SPINS. Now we understand how stars are made and now we understand how
the universe was made... laws were strictly obeyed and also tells us
that this Universe is nothing but a SPark in the infimnity of things
out there that most of them are dark.
other Universes are being made all the time by such collisions... You
simply can't even see them because they are that far away. So like a
rose bush has flowers that each is apart can't be together... sorry
God told you he was not this thing you imagined but your pagan brain
can't absorb simple reality of duty and logical steps... you choose
unlogical steps and walk away from God each time father and father
away till you claim God this super God magical pagan thing as you
worship money and make vote for other leader but still claim to follow
Jesus when by law written youa re a traitor to him for not following
and not obeying and not in repent... it is a sad world full of terrble
brainwasher and fools that take brainwashing like it was water then
logivc like it was excriment!

> > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -

[Stonethatbleeds]

GOD NEVER ONCE DID A SINGLE THING OUTSIDE THE LAWS OF PHYSICS AND
WOULD CALL YOU A LIAR TO DARE CLAIM HE DID!
HE DID ALL HE COULD TO TELL YOU HE IS NOT WHAT YOU CLAIM BUT YOU ARE
IN DELLUSION AND MAKE UP A FALSE GOD FROM THE TEACHING OF THE KINGDOM
DOING ALL MIRACLES AND NONE ARE FROM God or jesus for jesus himself
never did a miracle ever and told people this all the time over and
over... the kingdom does and the God speaks only is the reality of
things. Life after death is not in flesh so you have to be a dunce to
think it is not in spirit in the recordings.
God is not stupid and nether are we of the kingdom but humans are real
dunces that learn not how to build a city when we told you how by the
story of the ARK you dunces refused us all our wisdom and said monkey
groupings of apes was family and the way you want it...so we refused
you more wisdom because you are stupid people that live wrong and do
wrong and are living waste of flesh because you do not go to ACTS and
build the church and move in! Because Jesus tells you to not use money
but you dare claim to be Christian as you do use money to prove yto
God you do not obey him or live in his ways...you love SATAN YOU ALL
LOVE SATAN EARTH AND ITS EVIL WRONG WAYS!
Why would we offer you life after death in anything but spirit? we can
save flesh with water of life but you know nanobots can keep you alive
and just how few deserve it? so few it was told to you only 144,000
ONLY from all this planet!
sO YOUR TRELIGIONS ARE LIES AND FAKES MADE UP BY EVIL GREEDY VAIN
PEOPLE SO YOU THINK YOU FOLLOW JESUS BUT FOLLOW OTHERS AND YOU THINK
YOU SERVE GOD BUT ARE SERVING SATAN AS YOU THINK YOU ARE OF GOD AND
WILL GET REWARDS AS YOU ARE TOLD YOU ARE VOMIT AND GOT NONE FOR WHAT
YOU DONE.

[ethanthekiwi]

You still failed to explain where matter came from. You went back 4.6
Billion years to a giant mass that blew up. What about before that?
Where did that mass come from?

[Caleb Freeman]

   I believe the Bible.  It says that in the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.  There is no way to explain where matter comes from if it is just a mass and a bang.  That's one reason why creation is so logical.  In Revelation God says "I am the alpha and the Omega".  So he existed for all time.  That's how great he is so he could create the first matter.

[jamesn]

Don't you think simply saying "God did it" a little simple.
Can't Explain where matter came from? God did it. He said so in the
Bible.
Imagine using this methodology with regard to medicine:
Q Why do some people get sick?
A God did it. He uses plagues through out the bible.Lets not look any
deeper into this.

There is vast amount of evidence in support of evolution: Shared
psuedogenes, Anatomical homologies, RNA code, Retrovirus insertions
etc.
There is NOT one shred of evidence for creationism, just some lame
attempts to pick holes in evolution theory.
I think the problem here is that if one were to accept common descent
and evolution then one would have to reject biblical innerrancy.
Which would require the rejection of ones whole beleif system. This is
why willfull ignorance of scientific advances continues amoung
creationists.

[Stonethatbleeds]

Men alone make the claim God is creator and God himself never once
make such claims.
It is physics not science!
All miracles are explained!
none of the miracles were supernatural (AND NO SUCH THING AS GHOSTS)
All miracles are explained in the keys and seals and they are from the
KINGDOM WORKS and not the magical powers you claim in lies. Even Jesus
told you he had no magical powers! He himself never did any miracles
for he is the son of God sacrificed and so we of God did all for him
so he not even stub his toe. you simply were told some of us are
invisible to the human eye and so a lot of things go on you do not
see, even today.

PAGANS claim magical powers
do not enter the true Church and lay down 100%
buy sell and trade to prove to all they are NOT OF THE CHURCH! and so
CAN'T PASS ACTS chapter 4 and 5 and LIVE! YOU DIE! ALL PAGANS DIE
THERE AND ONLY TURE CHRISTIANS CAN PASS. your merchants stole the
church and your politicians have kept it from you for 2000 years so
you all become Capitalist and be sacrificed ina super great war so the
restart of capitalism/slavery can recycle more victims like the last
times.

God teach his seals of seven forth plus one seal for life itself was
able and still is able to fight and win.
you simply are told to feed the bank with money and take credit you do
not need and waste it on renovations you really did not need and
vanity clothes and such that you really did not need as you stuffed
most of it to the WORLD BANK that the USA is replacing your money in
there with credit notes the USA will pay them up later!
yes folks, the USA IS SUCKING UP THE MONEY OF THE WORLD IN CREDIT SO
YOU ALL WILL HAVE NOT REAL MONEY IN THE WORLD BANK BUT THE WORD OF THE
USA IT WA OK TO USE YOUR MONEY TO WASTE IN A WAR AND MINDLESS CHILD
LEVEL FEARS OF GUILT AFTER CHEATTING MANY NATIONS.

[Stonethatbleeds]

God is not ENERGY and so you must go back and start all over for you
are taking lies now as truth?
god is DUTY TO LIFE. HE TEACH ONLY SURVIVAL ANSWERS AND HAS NO
RELIGION OF HIS OWN! YOU CREATURES CREATED THEM BY NOT UNDERSTANDING
WHAT IS PRESENTED TO YOU.

On Jul 29, 1:51 pm, Penvox <bento...@yahoo.com> wrote:

> > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -

[Stonethatbleeds]

THAT OLD VERSON OF THE BIG BANG IS NOW OBSOLETE AS WE HAVE PROOF SINCE
THE 90'S ON THE EVENT AND HOW IT WORKS.
We also know that it was TWO singularities of opposing trajecteries
that "BOUNCED" off each other's gravitational field . Due to the SPIN
of them being opposite when the colistion took place they did not
absorb each other into one but made a giant spark ejection and moved
off each others path by massif gravitational pull in focused direction
(Ever notice the fringe of black hole cores singularities is always
flat? like the planet jupiter was big like a pea and the rings were a
galaxy...like ours is for example) When a singularity become so
powerful and fast moving, it usually consumed what you would consider
the Universe worth in it's wake.
We assume this is why the void of space exist and not a gel. It was
absorbed by rogue anomalies long before the rogue super fast
singularities passed and left as they still pull this big bang event
apart behind them in two different directions at once.
Absolutely none of it is outside the laws of physics that stand long
before this tiny remote event called big bang... if you see that thing
as big...you are too small to grasp what I say most of the time.

[Stonethatbleeds]

On Aug 5, 1:15 pm, "Caleb Freeman" <chesspeace...@gmail.com> wrote:
>    I believe the Bible.  It says that in the beginning God created the
> heavens and the earth.

FOUTH HAND HAND ME DOWN VERBAL STORIES FROM MEN DO NOT COUNT AS FROM
GOD!
The 3 different versions of creation exist only because the tribesmen
learned to write and so got together and put the stories down and so
much later the surviving ones that of course do not match each other
had to be put together so you know it has NOTHING TO DO WITH GOD! GOD
NEVER SAID SO, EVER!

 There is no way to explain where matter comes from
> if it is just a mass and a bang.

You have no clue what you are saying in the first place and YES WE DO
KNOW!

 That's one reason why creation is so
> logical.

NO! it is you that is of poor logic to take the hear say tribal verbal
stories of premitive people put together into three distinctive
stories that none are true and atre hand me down stories of creation
like all others as GOD NEVER MAKE ANY SUCH CLAIMS EVER!

 In Revelation God says "I am the alpha and the Omega".  So he
> existed for all time.  That's how great he is so he could create the first
> matter.

I AM THE CIRCLE/SEAL THE RING HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH TIME SILLY FOOL!
God teach by his own example of SEALS like the seal of the Garden of
Eden or the lands of JOB or the walls of Jericho or the belly of a
whale or the seals of the TRUE AND ONLY REAL CHURCH OF SIMON PETER IN
book of ACTS. tHE HOLY CITY AND THE PROPHECIES AS WELLL AS JUST ABOUT
ALL THE REAL TEACHINGS!

gOD GAVE HIS OWN THE TRUTH! i HAVE THE ANSWERS TO ALL THINGS AND YOU
HOODOO VOODOO PAGAN CRAP WILL NOT FLYU IN THE FACE OF GOD ANY BETTER
THAN IT DOES IN MINE.

[Stonethatbleeds]

mass was in the form of many things from atoms to light to the more
common singularities that can hold complete big bangs in a spark! this
entire big bang event is just a spark left over after bounce off of
two singularities like metal pool balls hit in the dark... the spark
is the universe as you know it... you can't see the table or the room
it is in by how tiny the event is and how tiny inside the event you
are. You must understand reality as reality and not magicalo things on
the first hand where the laws of physics say only newer levels of
reality can exist in the laws of physics... so giant black hole core
singularities larger than the entire sum of the big bang exist. in
fact the big bang is a not the largest or the smallest we we found
smaller ones in 1996 if I am not mistaken on the date. Yes, we know
how things took place by example! ONLY THE SCALES ARE DIFFERENT!
Larger singularities and larger distances and faster speed of
collision all very logical and simple in the laws of physics.
If you wish to know where the singularities came from we know that the
Universe is constantly changing forms and we know not th elimits of
the STRUCTURES OF IT! Yes the Universe could have walls! seals of
section were mass is ina sort of gel form and so no space just a sort
of liquide uniform gel with anomalies in it (harder spots than the gel
sort of trapped in it).

The explosion that made this big bang is not even visible except
here... it is that small!

> > energy as stars do.  Your proof is bogus.- Hide quoted text -

[Caleb Freeman]

   That's why I'm having this dialogue, to see what people say because evolution doesn't go with creation as shown in the Bible.  Here is something to think about though.  I think unlike everything in our world this is meant to be simple.  There are many things that can't be understood clearly about God but two stand out for me.  One is the salvation plan John 3:16.  You can give more verses for those who need it but salvation is simple.  The other is creation. 

 

Matter can not be created nor destroyed.  It can only be changed from one form to another so God did it makes sense.  It would have to be supernatural and it was.

 

I hate it when people say stuff like creationism isn't science.  If I study it I can find ways to disprove evolutionary proofs.  Some scientists as they discovered the complexities of the body found themselves saying that there must be design.  This wasn't so obvious in Darwin's day.  and here is something else that proves creation.  Dianosaurs lived with people.  There are old cave paintings before excevations had started of dianosaurs had begun.  How would people know what they looked like back then without seeing them?  Where did dragon legends come from?  Well the word dianosaur I have heard form a few sources didn't come around until 1841 so Dragon was the term and several dragon recordings show up in history if you look for it from Alexander the Great and Marco Polo to name a couple.  There are other ways to prove creation too but I won't go into it in this message.

[jamesn]

Dianosaurs lived with people. There
> are old cave paintings before excevations had started of dianosaurs had
> begun. How would people know what they looked like back then without seeing
> them? Where did dragon legends come from? Well the word dianosaur I have
> heard form a few sources didn't come around until 1841 so Dragon was the

> term and several dragon recordings show up in history if you look for it...

This just illustrates how unscientific creationism is. Dragons are not
evidence for the
coexistence of man and dinosaur. Dragons are a mythological creature
which could also resemble a
large bird of prey or a modern day lizard, embelished with human
imagination or misunderstanding to give fire
breathing abilty and wings. Oriental dragons usually closely resemble
snakes. In any case it is pure
speculation to guess where early inspiration for dragons came from and
therefore unfalsifiable and unscientific.

Matter can not be created nor destroyed. It can only be changed from
one
> form to another so God did it makes sense. It would have to be supernatural
> and it was.

It does not have to supernatural just because you can't think of a way
in which this occured.
Our minds are only equipped to deal with things at the medium scale.
Outside of this nearly everything which
happens violates our understanding of the world around us. If you want
to use God to explain these occurances
then thats fine, but God is far more improbable than any other
solution, simply because God would have be more complex
than the universe, and would need his His existence explained. And
what ever created Him, and so on.

[Stonethatbleeds]

On Aug 20, 7:39 pm, "Caleb Freeman" <chesspeace...@gmail.com> wrote:
>    That's why I'm having this dialogue, to see what people say because
> evolution doesn't go with creation as shown in the Bible.  Here is something
> to think about though.  I think unlike everything in our world this is meant
> to be simple.  There are many things that can't be understood clearly about
> God but two stand out for me.  One is the salvation plan John 3:16.  You can
> give more verses for those who need it but salvation is simple.  The other
> is creation.
>
> Matter can not be created nor destroyed.  It can only be changed from one
> form to another so God did it makes sense.  It would have to be supernatural
> and it was.

No you liar! We know it was very basic scince of two black hole core
that hit each other and nothing supernatural took place. Just becaue
you can't grasp basic things does not make a false God real. The real
God need not your bullshit opinions to pass as any kind of truth.

> I hate it when people say stuff like creationism isn't science.

IT IS NOT SCIENCE IT IS DELLUSION THAT NOTHING IN THE UNIVERSE MATCHES
YET GOD MATCHES ALL IN THE UNIVERSE TO PROVE ONLY FOOLS CLAIM CREATION
AS GOD HIMSELF NEVER ONCE DID!

 If I study
> it I can find ways to disprove evolutionary proofs.  

NO YOU CAN AND NETHER COULD THEY THYAT DID! YOU LIE! YOU TEND TO LIE A
LOT!

Some scientists as they
> discovered the complexities of the body found themselves saying that there
> must be design.

Desing is stability in the genectic structures and not via creation
like you tend to want to think others think when they say that! No God
needed to have any creature with a backbone to look alike in some way
desing by evolution is not desing of creation...learn to understand
what you read for you clearly show you do not know what you read.

 This wasn't so obvious in Darwin's day.

Makes no sense as you seam to think Dogman to be superior to wisdom
and proof and again makes you look dumb and shows you know nothing
about anything you speak of.

 and here is
> something else that proves creation.  Dianosaurs lived with people.

No they did not! we can prove that dummy!

 There
> are old cave paintings before excevations had started of dianosaurs had
> begun.  How would people know what they looked like back then without seeing
> them?

BONES DUMMY BONES JUST LIKE WE DID BONES YOU FOOL! THINK BEFORE YOU
SPEAK!!!!

 Where did dragon legends come from?

lizards! CROCK, ALIGATORS MONITORS GEKOS.... are you a complete idiot?
Think before you speak and put your stupid foot in your mouth over and
over as if you you got the answer but are not even close like a little
uneducated child would say!

 Well the word dianosaur I have
> heard form a few sources didn't come around until 1841 so Dragon was the
> term and several dragon recordings show up in history if you look for it
> from Alexander the Great and Marco Polo to name a couple.

HOW DUMB ARE YOU SON? DRAGONS ARE A COMMON STORY MYTH SAID IN ALL LAND
WHERE BONES WERE FOUND! YOUR THINKING PEOPLE USING THE BANNER WAS
IMPORTANT BUT WE KNOW IT WAS NOT IMPORTANT AND THEY GOT THEM FROM
OTHER LANDS THAT HAD SUCH MYTHS.
REMEMEBR DUMMY, DRAGONS NEVER EXISTED! NO FOSSLILS NO BONE NOTHING...
THEY ARE MYTH NOT REALITY!

 There are other
> ways to prove creation too but I won't go into it in this message.

YOU STILL HAVE NOT EVEN COME EVEN NEAR ANYTHING CLOSE AND JUST PROVED
YOUR iq TO BE LOW AND YOU BRAINW3AHED MIND TO BE FULL OF LIES FROM
PEOPLE THAT SHOULD OF BEEN SACRIFICED TO gOD TO SAVE THE WORLD FROM
THIS LOW EDUCATION HATRED OF GOD'S WILL AND WORDS FOR THE WORD FOR
WORD STUPID POSITION ALL SAY IS THE WORST OF THE WORST OF ALL WAYS TO
READ ANY SCRIPTURE OF ANY KIND...

TO YOU A "HOT DOG" IS A GOD MADE OF FIRE. TO YOU ANYTHING TOLD YTO YOU
IN THE SCRIPTURE IS TAKEN DIT=RECT AS DUMB AS POSSIBLE EVEN WHEN THE
TEACHING FROM gOD IS TO TAKE MANY AND AT LEAST TWO MINIMUM TO FOCUS ON
ONE POINT SO NEVER YOU FIND ONLY ONE SIDE... SO YOU CALL GOD A LIAR
AND YOURSELF BEFORE GOD A LIAR DAILY.
You are insultingly low in wisdom... want a banna and a tree, or a
cave and a fire? To God you are that low same as you are that low to
me.

[Stonethatbleeds]

YOU CAN FIND EVIDENCE OF LARGE GRAVITY OBJECTS DO MAKE EXPLOSIONS TO
RIVAL THE BIG BANG. yOU CAN ASK GOOGLE "The largest explosion since
the big bang" and you will find the answer has nothing to do with a
magical God beyond the laws of "Physics" (that is the word before God)
The real God comes after and does not promise flesh after flesh or
orther silly things people like him expect as PAGANS trying to tell us
they are not PAGANS that simply can't get the teachings so they cling
to each world like apes.
It is sad, really sad.

> > ways to prove creation too but I won't go into it in this message.- Hide quoted text -