why the USHPA freq's are not legal (the way we use them)
Steve Forslund
http://www.ushpa.aero/forms/pkt_Radio_Auth_Student.pdf
Mark G. Forbes
> USHPA freq's were to be used on business band radios not modified 2
> meter radios.
The Icom IC-F11 is an example of a type-certificated business band
radio which can also be set for ham radio frequencies. It is not
field-programmable, but can be programmed with a cable and a PC
program at home. I have mine set to the various business band
frequencies that we use, as well as selected ham radio channels.
In the business band, the assumption is that there will be users
with minimal training. Since this band is shared among many
users, some of which are life-safety-critical, it is important
that all radios operating there do not interfere on adjacent
channels. Since the typical biz-band user isn't very well
educated on radio minutiae, a technician is needed to set up the
radio and configure it for operation on the authorized frequencies.
This way the user just needs to know, "Push this, talk in here".
So long as radio operations are conducted in a low-key, non-interfering
way, it's unlikely that anyone's going to come looking to see what
sort of radio you're using. Only if you cause interference problems
is that a likely outcome. Keep your power level set to the minimum
needed for communication, which is usually the lowest setting on
your radio if you're in the air. You can always turn it up temporarily
if you're on the ground and need the extra reach. This limits the
"footprint" of your transmission, which can be over a hundred miles
when you're high in the air. I've personally reached other pilots
over a 30+ mile range using only 3/8 watt, with perfect clarity.
If you hear Fred's Garden Center or a survey crew or some farmers or
any of the other transient band users that *ALSO* are authorized on
those same five frequencies, then change to another frequency. Don't
complain that they're hogging "your" space, because it's shared
space available for many users. They perceive it as "their* frequency,
most likely, and interfering with them is a good way to generate a
complaint call to the FCC and a resulting visit from the antenna van.
If you don't know how to set the power level, set frequencies or
options, or don't know what those choices should be, then ASK! I'm
happy to work with anyone who has radio questions to make sure
that you're operating in a way that minimizes your impact on other
users.
MGF
Steve Roti
as 151.925 for use by USHPA members. Let's switch to 151.505 as the
CPC standard to avoid confusion when pilots from Portland travel to
sites in other parts of Oregon. That way we won't need to put "use
151.xxx at site A and 151.yyy at site B" in the site guide.
Steve
lan...@comcast.net
Billb
The following link still might be relevant -
http://w9if.net/iweb/papers/flyinginthewirelessworld.pdf It is an
article written by Rich Parry that describes the rules and regs for
USHGA special skills signoff for wireless radio use. It helped clear
up some things for me. There are some nuggets in it that might help
others.
Bill B
Steve Roti
frequency.
1. Two out of three paragliding clubs in Oregon use 151.505.
2. CPC pilots show up at Pine Mountain & other flying sites and use
151.925 and wonder why nobody answers them.
3. If CPC switches to 151.505 all we need in the site guide is, "The
standard USHPA radio frequency for paragliding in Oregon is 151.505";
if not we need "Use 151.xxx at site A, use 151.yyy at site B, etc."
Standards are good for communication. Lack of standards or multiple
standards causes needless confusion and miscommunication.
jjhalle
What may be a technical violation is the use of a particular kind of
radio to access the frequency. Accordingly, USHPA can have official
frequencies that it and its members can legally use, as can the CPC.
What radios are used for this purpose is up to the individual pilot.
More important are some guidelines for not creating a situation in
which someone will be annoyed enough to complain. Here they are,
based on a lifetime of listening to idiots clobber the airplane
frequencies.
1. Listen before you talk. This is rule number one and by far the
most important rule.
2, If there is an emergency being handled on the frequency, shut up
(DUH). (You can't apply rule 2 unless you apply rule 1)
3. Be aware that, if you are high, your transmissions will be heard a
lot further away than if you are low. It's like the sign on trucks
that says if you can't see my mirrors, I can't see you. About half
the uncontrolled airports in the US use 122.8 as their Unicom
frequency. If you are in the traffic pattern at any one of these
airports, the chances are slim that you will hear more than one or two
other airport transmissions. If you are at 6,000 feet, you will hear
every transmission in the Willamette valley. The same goes for how
far your transmissions are heard.
4. Don't (don't even think about) having a debate about whether the
$100 hamburger you are flying toward is better than the $100 hamburger
whoever you are talking to is flying toward on a busy radio
frequency. If your testosterone level demands a showdown on this
point, use your cell phone.
5. If the person you just heard (because you applied rule number one)
asks a question, it is a reasonable assumption that an answer will
follow. If you jump on the air before the answer is given, the result
will be that no one will hear anyone.
6. Figure out what you want to say before you push the button and say
it as briefly as possible. If you ever get a chance to listen to
military tactical transmissions (uhf band) you will hear just how
brief a conversation can be. In the military case, the purpose is to
avoid radar lock on. The fact that no one is shooting at you does not
mean that you don't have to be efficient in your transmissions.
7. When you don't have anything to say, don't say anything.
Steve Forslund
Calling them USHPA freq is part of the problem, they are business band
freq that USHPA is allowed to use, of course no one uses (well maybe
Mark Forbes) the correct type of radio. So why go to all the trouble to
modify radios that makes them illegal? Better to just get a ham license
and use regular 2 meter freq and avoid all the business band chatter
when flying near a city.
Sf
-----Original Message-----
From: cp...@googlegroups.com [mailto:cp...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of
jjhalle
Sent: Monday, November 02, 2009 22:22
To: Cascade Paragliding Club
Subject: CPC: Re: why the USHPA freq's are not legal (the way we use
them)
Discover Paragliding!
If you don't have a PA authorization (or a VA) on your USHPA certification, you are not authorized to use the 5 freqs we are chatting about anyway. Go to an instructor and get that rating soon.
The only problem I can see with switching to 151.505 is that we have been using that freq for years as our student chatting freq. Seems a good idea to standardize for the state, so I suppose we could switch to 151.925 if we were asked nicely. ;-)
It's winter. Get your Ham tech rating. Learn to use the radio. It's worth the time, and it will open up a lot of other frequencies for use when you need them.
It's also a good time to re-read all your PG books to refresh. Weather, XC flying, etc...
Brad
Brad and Maren
Your 'Couple' of Instructors
www.DiscoverParagliding.com
503-861-2772 (W) 503-440-0733 (c)
G$
not legal to use ham while flying, so in attempts to be legal that is
not one. So far the only legal ways to fly are by using an unmodded
business band radio on business band OR using aircraft radio on
aricraft bands. Is this correct?
On Nov 3, 8:13 am, "Discover Paragliding!"
> Slight problem with going strictly to the Ham Freqs. That would be also illegal for us to use the Ham freqs. Not only because not all in our group are ham certified, but because of the commercial activity that some of us depend on.
> If you don't have a PA authorization (or a VA) on your USHPA certification, you are not authorized to use the 5 freqs we are chatting about anyway. Go to an instructor and get that rating soon.
> The only problem I can see with switching to 151.505 is that we have been using that freq for years as our student chatting freq. Seems a good idea to standardize for the state, so I suppose we could switch to 151.925 if we were asked nicely. ;-)
> It's winter. Get your Ham tech rating. Learn to use the radio. It's worth the time, and it will open up a lot of other frequencies for use when you need them.
> It's also a good time to re-read all your PG books to refresh. Weather, XC flying, etc...
Mark G. Forbes
> Is using a ham radio on ham freq while flying legal? I believe it is
> not legal to use ham while flying, so in attempts to be legal that is
> not one. So far the only legal ways to fly are by using an unmodded
> business band radio on business band OR using aircraft radio on
> aricraft bands. Is this correct?
No.
"§97.11 Stations aboard ships or aircraft.
(a) The installation and operation of an amateur station on a ship or aircraft must be
approved by the master of the ship or pilot in command of the aircraft.
(b) The station must be separate from and independent of all other radio apparatus
installed on the ship or aircraft, except a common antenna may be shared with a voluntary
ship radio installation. The station's transmissions must not cause interference to any
other apparatus installed on the ship or aircraft.
(c) The station must not constitute a hazard to the safety of life or property. For a
station aboard an aircraft, the apparatus shall not be operated while the aircraft is
operating under Instrument Flight Rules, as defined by the FAA, unless the station has
been found to comply with all applicable FAA Rules."
We don't fly IFR, so as long as your radio isn't interfering with your
flight instruments or causing a hazard, you're legal to operate as a
licensed ham.
MGF
KC7LZD
Mark G. Forbes
traffic....
The nearest FCC monitoring stations are at Ferndale WA, near
the Canadian border, and in Livermore CA.
48 57'20.4'' N 122 33'17.6'' W (Ferndale)
http://maps.google.com/maps?ll=48.955667,-122.554889
37 43'29.7'' N 121 45'15.8'' W (Livermore)
http://maps.google.com/maps?ll=37.725278,-121.754372
It's unlikely that they'll hear you from either one of these
places, but complaints get investigated by the roving antenna
van, which can (and does) show up almost anywhere. Not so
much these days as in the past, but if you cause enough of
an annoyance, they'll send somebody out to find and smite you.
MGF
G$
This is not in the ham band. Irrelavent sice the vast majority of us
use modded 2 meter units. I sure would like to be legal, and using
aircraft band when needed for emergency and clearances would be nice,
however most 2 meter radio wont go down to the freq used my small
aircrafts.
On Nov 3, 7:47 pm, "Mark G. Forbes" <mgfor...@mindspring.com> wrote:
> And speaking of the FCC and their ability to monitor radio
> traffic....
>
> The nearest FCC monitoring stations are at Ferndale WA, near
> the Canadian border, and in Livermore CA.
>
>
> 37 43'29.7'' N 121 45'15.8'' W (Livermore)http://maps.google.com/maps?ll=37.725278,-121.754372
Mark G. Forbes
> So are you legal to use an un-modded business radio while flying too?
> This is not in the ham band. Irrelavent sice the vast majority of us
> use modded 2 meter units. I sure would like to be legal, and using
> aircraft band when needed for emergency and clearances would be nice,
> however most 2 meter radio wont go down to the freq used my small
> aircrafts.
Two things here. First, I don't think there's a rule prohibiting the
use of a business band radio in an aircraft, on the frequencies that
we are authorized for as transient users. Some frequencies are not
authorized for use on an aircraft, but ours aren't on that list.
http://edocket.access.gpo.gov/cfr_2008/octqtr/pdf/47cfr90.35.pdf
Second, you're confusing frequencies and emission types. A ham radio
transmits using FM modulation, as does a business band radio operating
in the 150-range. An aircraft radio operates using AM modulation,
which is distinctly different. The carrier frequency is not all that
much different, but the modulation is completely different. The
air band occupies the space between the top of FM broadcast at
108MHz and the bottom of 2 meter ham at 144MHz. Most aircraft
voice communication takes place between 118MHz and about 130MHz. In
the Portland area, most airplanes are on 122.8, 122.9, 123.0 and
123.05 unless they're talking to PDX control.
Many ham radios have the ability to configure their receivers to
pick up a usable AM signal. From the perspective of the RF front end
on the radio, it's all the same no matter how it's modulated. Since
many modern radios use digital demodulation methods, it's little
more than a change to the software to get AM signals into the audio
amplifier, instead of FM.
The same is not true however for transmitting. With clever radio
design it *could* be done, but there's no legal place in the ham
band where AM modulation is permitted. If a radio manufacturer
tried to get their new radio past the FCC with that feature in place,
I suspect they'd be rejected. They get away with having mod features
in there because these radios are sold worldwide and the rules about
what frequencies are legal vary by jurisdiction. But I don't know of
anywhere that ham radios operate AM in the 2 meter band for communication.
The lone exception is ARDF (Amateur Radio Direction Finding), aka
"Fox Hunting", where you plant a low power transmitter somewhere
and send your friends out with directional antennas and receivers
to try to find it. Those are sometimes modulated both AM and FM,
because you can use very sensitive AM receivers more easily for
DF tasks.
You may find a combined radio that does both ham and aviation band,
but the one I heard about was essentially two independent radios in
one package, and rumor had it that it did a lousy job on both. I fly
the ultralight with an Icom A6 handheld clipped to the panel and it
works fine for talking to other aircraft and air traffic control. If
you're flying powered, I'd recommend that radio for keeping in touch
with local traffic.
MGF