Ideas for flexible mail delivery?

[Megan Holcomb]

Hi All,

I am exploring options for a flexible mail delivery system. Currently we have small, square, stacked mailboxes with member names on labels (alphabetized). We sort the mail ourselves into the member's mailbox and they (members) are responsible for checking their box. But every time we get a new member the labels have to be shifted. Some members have overflowing mail or rarely check their box. Often mail arrives for past/non-members. For reference we have between 100-200 members.

Maybe there are some creative mail management solutions out there?! New to this google group so thought Id ask. Haven't seen it in previous topic threads.

Thanks!

[Alex Linsker]

Get a mail rack/shelving unit with shelf slots that easily remove, or get nametags that easily remove (Velcro or tape on the back or laminated sheet inserts).

Leave enough blank shelves in between every 5 or 10 members, so when new people come, you only have to move 5 or 10 slots (or whatever), not 100.

If moving slots is still hard, you could give each member a number and have a searchable sheet on the iPad or whatever device is near your slots, with autosuggest, that shows number, face, and name, to just add new members to the last number available and find them pretty easily.

For overflowing mail, you could have a 2-week (or whatever) limit, where every two weeks you do something with mail that has been there more than 1 month. You could add a manila folder on top of the mail ever week and date it, or something. We do that with the fridge, every week the food that looks old is thrown out by a staffperson, and otherwise we date the food so we know how long it's been there. It actually is super-quick to do that, after the first few times.

How much value does the mail add to membership, and how much cost (emotional and time and financial) does the mail add to you? Could you pay someone to do it or find another way to make your work on it fun?

-Alex Linsker, Collective Agency, Portland Oregon http://colllectiveagency.co

[Jeannine van der Linden]

We have a simple alphabetical expanding file like this for people who incidentally get post: 

It is kept in a cabinet in the hallway, next to packages and archived mail.

Some of our members pay to have their post archived, this is kept either in presentation folders or archive boxes depending on how much mail they are keeping, like this:

Only with their name/logo/whatever on them.

We also have a catch all archive for folks who are out of town/work nomads/sick/whatever, which is kept by the Community Manager.

We don't have mailboxes any more.  Not enough space for a row of empty mailboxes, it's just another thing to dust, and takes up too much room. Besides nobody gets a lot of paper mail any more other than junk mail.  This goes in the recycle.

Members who don't pick up their mail are the problem of the community manager if it is so long that s/he is getting nervous.  :-)  At some point it goes into the box by tthe Community Manger 

 Post for past/nonmembers is returned to sender.  Unless it's somebody we are fond of, then we let them know and keep it in the box by the Community Manager.

[Jeannine van der Linden]

Just realized I forgot to add:  if somebody is just coming by to pick up the mail, they get it out of the folder.  But if they book in to come in or have regiular days (that is, we know they are coming), then we put it on their desk before they get here so it's waiting for them.

Cheers,

Jeannine

[Mike]

Hey Megan,

We've been working on a mail solution for coworking spaces like yours. I think the ideal solution is not dealing with mail at all, which is where Earth Class Mail would step in to process and deliver the mail to the recipient.

Outside of the actual hassle in dealing with mail, there are also risks associated with handling mail addressed to other businesses. You can learn more about USPS rules for CMRAs, but let's just say it's more work than you'll likely want to do and not a core function of your business.

Let me know if you're interested in learning more and we can setup a time to talk. Our program can be setup in a way that has no upfront costs for you.

[oren.s...@gmail.com]

Hi Megan, 

Thanks for raising the question and thanks for the colorful responses everyone, especially Jeanine's photo-narrated reply. 

There's one point Megan raised that we face a lot of as well, which is, what to do with mail for past/non-members. 

So far our solution has been to end up stashing it, but it's beginning to pile up and some people have moved or are unreachable with current contact info. 

Does anyone have a good solution for that?

Thanks!
Oren

On Tuesday, December 8, 2015 at 1:55:11 PM UTC-6, Megan Holcomb wrote:

[Randall Arnold]

Oren, this may be a stupid question-- but is marking it "no longer at this address, please forward" and putting back out for (re)delivery not an option?

Randy

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[Mike]

In general, the CMRA and USPS rules limit your responsibility to 6 months after they stop being a customer - at which point you can just recycle/shred it if they haven't taken action. I definitely recommend you read the info in the links I posted earlier.

You're certainly exposed to liability if notices are being served, such as: corporate documentation renewals, tax notices etc. Although the language from USPS is certainly convoluted, as is the case with most bureaucratic organizations.

[oren.s...@gmail.com]

Randy, without providing a forwarding address, I think it's the same as just throwing it away, but not sure. 

Also, I'm a bit weary of that since I don't want the post office to think "Fort Work" is no longer at the address, just the individual in question. 

Given the chance of ambiguity, I'd rather avoid the risk that we'll lose mail we do want to receive. 

[oren.s...@gmail.com]

Interesting Mike, I'd never seen that or read that before. 

My question is does a coworking space have to be a CMRA to handle mail or can we handle mail the same way an employer would? (which is typically what we do)

Seems excessively formal for a community. If mail was the only service we offer, I'd certainly understand the need. 

[Mike]

Technically, yes a co-working space needs to be a CMRA to handle mail. It's no different from a Regus/Davinci (which mainly re-sell CEC space) or even a UPS store in that regard, both of which are CMRAs. 

Many don't do this and operate fine, with no repercussions. But, at any point a USPS auditor can show up and ask for 1583s for all of the businesses you receive mail for, and refuse mail service if you can't provide the documentation. 

The level of enforcement tends to differ from post office to post office, and you may hear different requirements about CMRAs depending on where you're located - that's not intentional, it's just a lack of knowledge by most PO workers on the matter.

In response to an earlier question, the USPS doesn't acknowledge business change of address notices any more. Otherwise someone at a co-work location could forward all that location's mail somewhere.

In the end it's just another business decision you need to make. Some decide that a certain level of liability exposure is acceptable for their operation, and that can be fine.

[Jeannine van der Linden]

Hi, Oren,

I think the King has the answer for you my friend:

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/YUWMSVDPdGQ" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Aanyway.

Whether you are a CMRA depends on the A it seems to me.  That is to say, whether you are an agent and handle your coworkers' mail.  There was a dustup about thisover Regus and similar at the USPS some years ago, and my recollection is that they published some amendments to the regs defining how you know whether youa are a CMRA (which is a mail drop) or an OBC.  And it amounted to whether you are or are not the agent of your coworkers, whch then amounts to, do they actually have space or are they primarily receiving business services.  See the Postal Service Mail Manual, on this link you can start at page 10 to get to the meat of it.

The Global Workspace Association reccommends becoming one, they explan it and give their reasons here.

I had a big (I mean big, large, like in, Texas size) ol' rubber stamp made which says (in Dutch obviously), "No Longer Coworking in Kamer52".  It was big enough to cover the bar code at the bottom becuse all these things are automated now and (here) if you do not cover the bar code the damn thing turns up again like a bad penny.

I think the very best thing to do is to wander on down to your local Post Office and have a chat with the Postmaster.  OR send them an email if they don;t have those any more.

Cheers

Jeannine

[Jeannine van der Linden]

Well hell.  Screwed up the embed code.  And it was such fun, too.  Sorry.  

[Mike - earthclassmail.com]

USPS does go into specifics on what types of OBCs are required to have a CMRA, you can find them here: http://pe.usps.gov/text/dmm300/508.htm

I think the section below is most telling (emphasis is mine), although still convoluted. If you want to not worry about this at all, just reach out anytime. 

1.8.4 Office Business Center Acting as a CMRA

The procedures for an office business center (OBC) or part of its operation acting as a CMRA for postal purposes are as follows:

a.An OBC is a business that operates primarily to provide private office facilities and other business support services to individuals or firms (customers). OBCs receive single-point delivery. OBC customers that receive mail at the OBC address will be considered CMRA customers for postal purposes under the standards set forth in 1.8.4b. Parties considered CMRA customers under this provision must comply with the standards set forth in 1.8.1 through 1.8.3. An OBC must register as a CMRA on Form 1583-A and comply with all other CMRA standards if one or more customers receiving mail through its address is considered a CMRA customer.

b.An OBC customer is considered to be a CMRA customer for postal purposes if its written agreement with the OBC provides for mail service only or mail and other business support services (without regard for occupancy or other services that the OBC might provide). Additionally, an OBC customer receiving mail at the OBC address is considered to be a CMRA customer for postal purposes if each of the following is true:

1.The customer’s written agreement with the OBC does not provide for thefull-time use of one or more of the private offices within the OBC facility.

2.The customer’s written agreement with the OBC does not provide all of the following: (a) the use of one or more of the private offices within the facility for at least 16 hours per month at market price for the location; (b) full-time receptionist service and live personal telephone answering service during normal business hours and voicemail service after hours; (c) a listing in the office directory in the building in which the OBC is located; (d) use of conference rooms and other business services on demand, such as secretarial services, word processing, administrative services, meeting planning, travel arrangements, and video conferencing.

c.Notwithstanding any other standards, a customer whose written agreementprovides for mail services only or mail and other business support services will not be considered an OBC customer (without regard for occupancy or other services that an OBC may provide and bill for on demand).

d.The USPS may request from the OBC copies of written agreements or anyother documents or information needed to determine compliance with these standards. Failure to provide requested documents or information might be basis for suspending delivery service to the OBC under the procedures set forth in 1.8.2.

[Glen Ferguson]

We did the CMRA thing about 3 years ago. The local postmaster had to call the major USPS branch for the state to find out what a CMRA was, so don't be too surprised if you encounter something similar.

Overall, it hasn't been much work at all, even with filing the quarterly reports. I made up stickers with the approved wording for the mail that gets rejected - it was cheaper than getting a stamp made.

Glen Ferguson   Tummler, Cowork Frederick

[Liane Jackson]

Question:  There have been some other threads with comments about how letting businesses use your space address as a postal address is not good for Google search.  That it somehow infringes on their location services and possibly causes SEO confusion.  Does anyone have thoughts on this?

Liane

On Tuesday, December 8, 2015 at 1:55:11 PM UTC-6, Megan Holcomb wrote:

[AK]

Hi everyone--time to get serious about mail delivery.  I wonder how critical it is to have USPS approved locking mailboxes.  I have applied for  CMRA status and my local PO has no clue what to do - I even printed out the form for them.  This really took me by surprise since we're in a suburban location, not in the country so there is alot of businesses out here

Nevertheless, I want to be approved and wonder if those of you who collect mail for members or just "virtual" actually have locked mailboxes for them.  Thoughts?  I will not but the boxes until approved.

Al

On Tuesday, December 8, 2015 at 1:55:11 PM UTC-6, Megan Holcomb wrote:

[Jerome Chang]

For years we provided these virtual offices w/o filing a CMRA w/ the USPS, but we complied w/ the requirements should we get audited.

We are in the process of filing now.

So the answer is

- it’s not critical, but it’s ideal

- no individually locked mailboxes required. We put all of our “mailboxes” in a locked room.

JEROME CHANG

talk to us: (323) 330-9505

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[Glen Ferguson]

Yes, the local post office folks, sometimes even the postmaster, typically don't know what to do with the CMRA form because they're pretty rare. We ran into that too and we're in the second-largest city in the state. In our case, he contacted the larger post office in Baltimore. Now, a few years later and with a new postmaster, she checks every PS-1583 form we submit and has rejected one for a couple discrepancies we missed. So yes, we're very aware of the possibility of an audit. We're also across the street from the post office, which makes us a convenient target if they want to do an audit of a "random" CMRA.

I find the front desk staff never knows what to do with the quarterly reports, so once I found out who they should go to, I mark all the reports to his attention.

We're using a small fire safe for hanging file folders as our mailboxes. It locks, and I can keep it in a closet, so we're still in compliance, albeit barely. We're planning on getting some mailboxes though as it would allow for self-service when picking up mail. This is more important for the non-members with mailboxes than it is for members. Since we (any CMRA) are responsible for sorting the mail, we can get "mailboxes for private delivery" instead of "mailboxes for USPS delivery" which reduces the cost quite a bit. We're in a historic building so we're looking at something like these as they fit the decor better. https://www.mailboxes.com/shop-by-department/commercial-mailboxes-for-private-distribution/brass-style/

---

Glen Ferguson

Cowork Frederick

122 E Patrick St

Frederick, MD 21701-5630

+1 (301) 732-5165

gl...@coworkfrederick.com

www.coworkfrederick.com

@CoworkFrederick

Glen Ferguson   Phone: 301-732-5165 Email: gl...@coworkfrederick.com Website: https://www.coworkfrederick.com Address: 122 E Patrick St, Frederick, MD 21701