Improving the Google Group
Alex Hillman
- Much better organization of our knowledge. The ability to set message "topics" to things like "question", "introduction", "idea" would be HUGE for this group.
- Easier on-boarding for new members
- Better spam moderation tools
- It's not free
- Since it's not free, somebody needs to pay for it, which means somebody is ultimately a "keyholder"
/ah
indyhall.org
coworking in philadelphia
Mike Schinkel
I did some research and found that a Zoho forum to support our group would cost $75/month, and incur a one-time $500 fee to migrate all of the existing data (messages, threads, and even users) from Google Groups to Zoho. There's even an option to interact with Zoho via e-mail for those of us that like this.
They might even do it for free eliminating your cons. Contact dhan [at] zohocorp [dot] com who is the Product Manager for Zoho Discussions.
See close to the bottom: "Zoho Discussions for your Open Source Project":
http://blogs.zoho.com/general/zoho-discussions-is-now-free-for-open-source-projects-jquery-deploys-discussions
Alex Hillman
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John Sechrest
I have seen several efforts to move to forums blow up discussions. In addition, I have also seen moves like this end up translating into a biforcation of the conversation into two different groups.
The choice of how you view data is a critical one. And I totally agree about the need for a tool that helps you focus your attention well. For me, google groups + gmail does this well.
In general, I have yet to meet a forum that I like. Web based forums hide information and make it harder for me to find things. I find this especially true of forum sites like NING. (pet peave)
I do not know how zoho forums work, having never used them.
For me, I am immediately suspicious when I see the word forum. Since forums usually take me more time to process, take more energy to keep in context.
I suspect it is an information processing style issue, since these are the very issues you are trying to address.
I would just urge caution. A shift like this from google groups to zoho forums is likely to quietly and subtly alter who is participating, and who stays connected to the group.
I have watched other groups have a significant shift of membership with tool changes like this.
Be sure you are getting what you think you are getting. And be sure you know which audience you are serving with the change.
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John Sechrest .
Corvallis Benton .
Chamber Coalition .
420 NW 2nd .
(541) 757-1507 . sech...@corvallisedp.com
.
.
Alex Hillman
Mike Schinkel
Mike Pihlman
discussions can proceed there?
Just a possible alternative...??? :-)
Mike
http://mobileoffice.ning.com/?xg_source=badge
On 2/9/2010 7:52 AM, Alex Hillman wrote:
> So, Woody just suggested that an active thread be moved out of the
> main channel so as to not disrupt others. While I think it was a good
> topic to keep in the group's visibility, his question of "can I move
> this to a sub folder" reminded me of something.
>
> Google Groups kinda sucks.
>
> To be fair, it's become our home. This is the most active repository
> of information for coworking, and the place where I send people first
> to learn more and meet more coworking people. But the Google Group is
> anything but good for discovery. Spam moderation is chaos for the
> people who actively manage it. The lack of sub-threads is annoying,
> and the lack of message context makes it hard to know what messages to
> pay attention to.
>
> Recently, the open source javascript library jQuery moved away from
> Google Groups for a lot of these same reasons...to Zoho forums.
>
> I did some research and found that a Zoho forum to support our group
> would cost $75/month, and incur a one-time $500 fee to migrate all of
> the existing data (messages, threads, and even users) from Google
> Groups to Zoho. There's even an option to interact with Zoho via
> e-mail for those of us that like this.
>
> The pros:
>
> * Much better organization of our knowledge. The ability to set
> message "topics" to things like "question", "introduction",
> "idea" would be HUGE for this group.
> * Easier on-boarding for new members
> * Better spam moderation tools
>
> The cons:
>
> * It's not free
> * Since it's not free, somebody needs to pay for it, which means
> somebody is ultimately a "keyholder"
>
> The cons aren't huge, but they do need to be addressed.
>
> I think this could be a very valuable evolution of this discussion
> forum that we all love so much. What say you, the coworking group?
>
> -Alex
>
> /ah
> indyhall.org <http://indyhall.org>
> coworking in philadelphia
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
> Groups "Coworking" group.
> To post to this group, send email to cowo...@googlegroups.com.
> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
> coworking+...@googlegroups.com.
> For more options, visit this group at
> http://groups.google.com/group/coworking?hl=en.
--
Mike Pihlman
TracyVirtualOffice
"A Coworking Community"
95 W. 11th Street, Suite 203
Tracy, CA 95376
Mobile: 209-608-4340
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Twitter: @TracyVirtOffice
Skype: tracyvirtualoffice1
John Sechrest
I live in my email system, doing most of my work by email. Drupal Forums, Facebook and NING all fail for me in the notification of updated threads. They drag me away from where my attention is focused and are divergent forces on my attention.
With NING it is REALLY bad at managing your connection from email to the website and updating you about a thread and letting your attention to quickly flow to the task and back again.
Again, I don't know Zoho forums, but I am not able to engage in these other 3 methods of linking forums to email in a meaningful way.
I am however, able to read and track and process the google groups flow (since I live in my email space)
So the question I would interpret that you are wanting to ask is:
Can I see an updated zoho thread in my email and know what happened with it, without going to the forum?
(otherwise, what is the value of getting an email that says: "The thread was updated, follow this link"? )
Mike Schinkel
JMTCW.
-Mike Schinkel
Ignition Alley Atlanta Coworking
http://ignitionalley.com
Alex Hillman
Alex Hillman
gerard
I think it's great this discussion has been brought up. Personally,
whether Google Group or Zoho forum, they both have pros and cons and
I'll manage either way.
The only thing I wanted to say was that I believe there should only be
a single destination at any given moment. That is, I would not try to
maintain a Google Group and a forum. It's just one more thing to keep
up with. If we were to migrate to something else, we ought to tell
everyone to stop using the Google Group and start using the new thing,
with a big bold flashing message in the Welcome section to tell new
people where to go. I recently experienced something like this with
our local PHP user group. We tried to maintain both a forum and a
mailing list, but in the end just confused everybody. We eventually
deleted the forum.
$0.02
Gerard Sychay
http://www.cincycoworks.com
On Feb 9, 1:42 pm, Alex Hillman <dangerouslyawes...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I'm 100% with you, and will be doing some more research on Zoho's email
> integration.
>
> My hope is that for the people currently using the group and loving it, very
> little will change. Zoho will just be a new engine that provides more
> options for organization and interaction. The BIGGEST gain, in my mind, is a
> better process for guiding new people through existing
> information...something that even searching here is hard because with
> search, you have to know exactly what you're looking for.
>
> Threads, sub-forums, and context can guide new people to figure out what
> they're looking for...even if they don't know what it is yet.
>
> Again, great feedback from John, thanks man!
>
> -Alex
>
> /ah
> indyhall.org
> coworking in philadelphia
>
> >>> - Much better organization of our knowledge. The ability to set
> >>> message "topics" to things like "question", "introduction", "idea" would be
> >>> HUGE for this group.
> >>> - Easier on-boarding for new members
> >>> - Better spam moderation tools
>
> >>> The cons:
>
> >>> - It's not free
> >>> - Since it's not free, somebody needs to pay for it, which means
> >>> somebody is ultimately a "keyholder"
>
> >>> The cons aren't huge, but they do need to be addressed.
>
> >>> I think this could be a very valuable evolution of this discussion forum
> >>> that we all love so much. What say you, the coworking group?
>
> >>> -Alex
>
> >>> /ah
> >>> indyhall.org
> >>> coworking in philadelphia
>
> >>> --
> >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> >>> "Coworking" group.
> >>> To post to this group, send email to cowo...@googlegroups.com.
> >>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
> >>> coworking+...@googlegroups.com<coworking%2Bunsu...@googlegroups.com>
> >>> .
> >>> For more options, visit this group at
> >>>http://groups.google.com/group/coworking?hl=en.
>
> >> --
> >> John Sechrest .
> >> Corvallis Benton .
> >> Chamber Coalition .
> >> 420 NW 2nd .
> >> (541) 757-1507 . sechr...@corvallisedp.com
> >> .
>
> >> .
>
> >> --
> >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> >> "Coworking" group.
> >> To post to this group, send email to cowo...@googlegroups.com.
> >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
> >> coworking+...@googlegroups.com.
> >> For more options, visit this group at
> >>http://groups.google.com/group/coworking?hl=en.
>
> >> --
> >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> >> "Coworking" group.
> >> To post to this group, send email to cowo...@googlegroups.com.
> >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
> >> coworking+...@googlegroups.com<coworking%2Bunsu...@googlegroups.com>
> >> .
> >> For more options, visit this group at
> >>http://groups.google.com/group/coworking?hl=en.
>
> > --
> > John Sechrest .
> > Corvallis Benton .
> > Chamber Coalition .
> > 420 NW 2nd .
> > (541) 757-1507 . sechr...@corvallisedp.com
> > .
>
> > .
>
> > --
> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> > "Coworking" group.
> > To post to this group, send email to cowo...@googlegroups.com.
> > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
> > coworking+...@googlegroups.com<coworking%2Bunsu...@googlegroups.com>
Alex Hillman
Steven Heath
<dangerous...@gmail.com> wrote:
> TOTALLY agreed. Even if it's a small step in any direction, it's a step; I'd
> want to migrate all existing content and users, and then put up a "we didn't
> close, we moved!" sign on the door to the google group.
I do not mind what application we use. However whatever we use I want
to be able to use only email to interact. I find many web forums I
spend ages looking around seeing what new areas are in it or items
posted in wrong categories. Then I get the 'new posting in XYZ, click
here to read it!' message.
So as long as I can use an email client to experience 99%+ of the
system (and not only a real time web interface) then i am fine with
it.
--
Steven Heath
Director, Foxbane Consulting
Founder, AltSpace
Cell: +64 21 706-067
www.foxbane.co.nz
Level 22
Plimmer Towers
2 Gilmer Terrace
Wellington
AltSpace.co.nz - Shared office space in Wellington for home based
workers, freelancers, or nimble companies
Alex Hillman
--
Mike Schinkel
You will want to ask that question just a bit more detailed. If you compare how Facebook provides email notifications and how NING uses mail notifications, you will find a really wide variance in usability.
True.
I live in my email system, doing most of my work by email. Drupal Forums, Facebook and NING all fail for me in the notification of updated threads. They drag me away from where my attention is focused and are divergent forces on my attention.
Agree completely on Drupal Forums/Facebook/NING; none of those work for me.
The best forum I've ever used has been vBulletin which offered email notifications the first time someone replies to a thread but no more until you revisit the forum, and it's pages loaded so quickly it wasn't a bother like having to go to Facebook. That would work for me, as would something that works like Google Groups.
So the question I would interpret that you are wanting to ask is:
Can I see an updated zoho thread in my email and know what happened with it, without going to the forum?
It would be great if the user had the option. For example, some heavy threads I'd really prefer not to be bothered with whereas other's I'd like to see. So the way vBulletin works is great for me, but for you don't like to have all of it echoed. Options are good here.
(otherwise, what is the value of getting an email that says: "The thread was updated, follow this link"? )
Believe me, that's a serious pet peeve of mine as well. That may be one reason I hate Facebook so much.
Dhan
Yes - Zoho Discussions is free for open source projects and you are
most welcome to switch.
Regards
Dhan
Zoho Discussions
On Feb 9, 9:12 pm, Alex Hillman <dangerouslyawes...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Awesome tip. I'll contact him today. Thanks Mike.
>
> /ah
> indyhall.org
> coworking in philadelphia
>
> On Tue, Feb 9, 2010 at 11:08 AM, Mike Schinkel
> <mikeschin...@newclarity.net>wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Feb 9, 2010, at 10:52 AM, Alex Hillman wrote:
>
> > I did some research and found that a Zoho forum to support our group would
> > cost $75/month, and incur a one-time $500 fee to migrate all of the existing
> > data (messages, threads, and even users) from Google Groups to Zoho. There's
> > even an option to interact with Zoho via e-mail for those of us that like
> > this.
>
> > They might even do it for free eliminating your cons. Contact dhan [at]
> > zohocorp [dot] com who is the Product Manager for Zoho Discussions.
>
> > See close to the bottom: "Zoho Discussions for your Open Source Project":
>
> >http://blogs.zoho.com/general/zoho-discussions-is-now-free-for-open-s...
>
> > -Mike Schinkel
> > Ignition Alley Atlanta Coworking
> >http://ignitionalley.com
>
> > --
> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> > "Coworking" group.
> > To post to this group, send email to cowo...@googlegroups.com.
> > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
> > coworking+...@googlegroups.com<coworking%2Bunsubscribe@googlegroups .com>
Dhan
this in mind when we developed the product. Apart from the web based
access, we have active bi-directional emailing too. Of course, you are
welcome to give Zoho Discussions a spin and come back with comments -
for I am sure your feedback will only help improve the product.
Regards
Dhan
Zoho Discussions
> <dangerouslyawes...@gmail.com>wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > So, Woody just suggested that an active thread be moved out of the main
> > channel so as to not disrupt others. While I think it was a good topic to
> > keep in the group's visibility, his question of "can I move this to a sub
> > folder" reminded me of something.
>
> > Google Groups kinda sucks.
>
> > To be fair, it's become our home. This is the most active repository of
> > information for coworking, and the place where I send people first to learn
> > more and meet more coworking people. But the Google Group is anything but
> > good for discovery. Spam moderation is chaos for the people who actively
> > manage it. The lack of sub-threads is annoying, and the lack of message
> > context makes it hard to know what messages to pay attention to.
>
> > Recently, the open source javascript library jQuery moved away from Google
> > Groups for a lot of these same reasons...to Zoho forums.
>
> > I did some research and found that a Zoho forum to support our group would
> > cost $75/month, and incur a one-time $500 fee to migrate all of the existing
> > data (messages, threads, and even users) from Google Groups to Zoho. There's
> > even an option to interact with Zoho via e-mail for those of us that like
> > this.
>
> > The pros:
>
> > - Much better organization of our knowledge. The ability to set message
> > "topics" to things like "question", "introduction", "idea" would be HUGE for
> > this group.
> > - Easier on-boarding for new members
> > - Better spam moderation tools
>
> > The cons:
>
> > - It's not free
> > - Since it's not free, somebody needs to pay for it, which means
> > somebody is ultimately a "keyholder"
>
> > The cons aren't huge, but they do need to be addressed.
>
> > I think this could be a very valuable evolution of this discussion forum
> > that we all love so much. What say you, the coworking group?
>
> > -Alex
>
> > /ah
> > indyhall.org
> > coworking in philadelphia
>
> > --
> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> > "Coworking" group.
> > To post to this group, send email to cowo...@googlegroups.com.
> > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
> > coworking+...@googlegroups.com<coworking%2Bunsubscribe@googlegroups .com>
> > .
> > For more options, visit this group at
> >http://groups.google.com/group/coworking?hl=en.
>
> --
> John Sechrest .
> Corvallis Benton .
> Chamber Coalition .
> 420 NW 2nd .
> (541) 757-1507 . sechr...@corvallisedp.com
> .
>
> .
Tara Hunt
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to coworking+...@googlegroups.com.
--
tara 'missrogue' hunt
Book: The Whuffie Factor (http://www.thewhuffiefactor.com)
Blog: HorsePigCow: Marketing Uncommon (http://horsepigcow.com)
Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/missrogue
phone: 514-679-2951
Eastlake
"wandering" manner through the google group.
The reason I was "wandering" is because I wanted to see if I had
received any more responses to my post from a week or two ago. It
took me a while to even FIND my post. Which tells me that no one else
would truly be motivated enough to go find it to reply to it. It
seems it is very quickly lost in the "black hole" of discussion - type
communication ... similar to THIS discussion, it seems, since the last
post was Feb. 16, and I just HAPPENED to find this discussion only
because I chanced upon it.
From a new user's perspective, if I want to spend some kind of initial
time researching as much as I can in any organized way, forums are
much better at providing that then this discussion format.
I understand people want to be able to be active via email without
hindrance (i.e. being forced to go to the discussion or forum page to
interact with it). I also understand google groups is already used
"En Masse" and it might be unrealistic to get similar participation
and membership results from going somewhere else.
It's definitely a bit of a dilemma.
Can we give google any feedback requesting that they add a forum
feature to their group functions? I'm surprised they don't offer it
already ...
Has this discussion gone anywhere since Feb. 16 that I'm unaware of?
Thanks!
Ryan
On Feb 16, 11:15 am, Tara Hunt <horsepig...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Jumping in...
>
> Three communities vibrant on google groups
> Two of them "moved" to "better" systems
> Only one vibrant community left
>
> Google groups may suck at some stuff, but it works. Please don't break it.
>
> Tara
>
> On Wed, Feb 10, 2010 at 8:42 AM, Dhan
> <aravindhan.vijayaragha...@gmail.com>wrote:
> > > > coworking+...@googlegroups.com<coworking%2Bunsu...@googlegroups.com>
> > <coworking%2Bunsubscribe@googlegroups .com>
> > > > .
> > > > For more options, visit this group at
> > > >http://groups.google.com/group/coworking?hl=en.
>
> > > --
> > > John Sechrest .
> > > Corvallis Benton .
> > > Chamber Coalition .
> > > 420 NW 2nd .
> > > (541) 757-1507 . sechr...@corvallisedp.com
> > > .
>
> > > .
>
> > --
> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> > "Coworking" group.
> > To post to this group, send email to cowo...@googlegroups.com.
> > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
> > coworking+...@googlegroups.com<coworking%2Bunsu...@googlegroups.com>
> > .
> > For more options, visit this group at
> >http://groups.google.com/group/coworking?hl=en.
>
> --
Hassan Schroeder
> Can we give google any feedback requesting that they add a forum
> feature to their group functions? I'm surprised they don't offer it
> already ...
>
> Has this discussion gone anywhere since Feb. 16 that I'm unaware of?
Just curious -- why would you think there was activity on this thread
that doesn't appear in the group message listing?
--
Hassan Schroeder ------------------------ hassan.s...@gmail.com
twitter: @hassan
Eastlake
but here's where my impression comes from:
First, I chose not to get emails from the group ... the last thing I
need are more emails that I have to wade through. So I come to the
group site to check things out when I want to, but otherwise leave
everything there.
That being said, this thread got 11 responses the same day it was
posted, and then 7 more the next day. That was Feb. 9 and Feb. 10.
Since then, there was only one more post on Feb. 16 until I (and you)
posted to it today. So, you have to admit, after two days of a lot of
interest, it appears now that this post is old news and I just wasn't
sure if the topic was now dead or not. For all I know, someone else
may have started a new thread that relates to the topic, but I
wouldn't have seen that thread.
My experience with forums is that you don't lose these kinds of
conversations this way ... a new post puts the thread back at the top,
and there's an organized way to look through topics, which is a great
way to research. This seems particularly helpful to new people (like
myself) so we can get up to speed much quicker, and participate in a
more relevant way. If I can read up on "beginner" topics, then I
don't have to ask the same questions everyone before me asked. If I
want to spend more time researching anything more in depth, I can get
up to speed with everyone else so far on the topic within a day or two
(or maybe even just an hour or two).
Also, when I recently posted some questions, I only got one posted
response, and now my thread has been pushed down to irrelevancy ...
very quickly, it seems.
I appreciate and respect that this discussion format through email
allows people more of an instant conversation with eachother on a
topic, but I just wish it were categorized and organized a little
better so each thread would remain relevant longer and I could more
easily find and read what I want to.
Again, I hope I'm not overstepping my bounds on the issue, as I am
still a newbie to the group and to coworking in general ...
On Mar 29, 11:37 am, Hassan Schroeder <hassan.schroe...@gmail.com>
wrote:
> On Mon, Mar 29, 2010 at 12:26 PM, Eastlake <r...@shamrockdesign.com> wrote:
> > Can we give google any feedback requesting that they add a forum
> > feature to their group functions? I'm surprised they don't offer it
> > already ...
>
> > Has this discussion gone anywhere since Feb. 16 that I'm unaware of?
>
> Just curious -- why would you think there was activity on this thread
> that doesn't appear in the group message listing?
>
> --
> Hassan Schroeder ------------------------ hassan.schroe...@gmail.com
> twitter: @hassan
Tara Hunt
> twitter: @hassan
--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Coworking" group.
To post to this group, send email to cowo...@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to coworking+...@googlegroups.com.
Eastlake
gmail accounts, millions of people are part of google groups (and
familiar with how they work), etc. etc. ... making it easier to join
and build membership up to the 2500 that this group is currently at.
It makes sense; the upsides of the success of membership building far
outweigh the downsides of how communication threads are organized.
Personally, I'm not advocating changing from google to anything else.
But, Google is a big, smart company ... they ought to be able to add
forum options to their google groups.
Maybe it's a long shot, and maybe it would take a lot of other groups
asking for the same functionality, but is there a way that we can give
them feedback saying that we'd love it if they would consider adding
forum options to their groups?
I'd be happy with that.
Thanks for humoring me!
> > coworking+...@googlegroups.com<coworking%2Bunsu...@googlegroups.com>
WHERE MMM
I know that you can cut and paste but having a translation that other people can help add meaning right there (in the stream of the conversation) would be helpful.
Danielle Nicoli
WHERE:MMM
Coworking in LA
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to coworking+...@googlegroups.com.
Glen Ferguson
John Sechrest
What happens for you when you go to
Http://googlegroups.com/group/coworking
On Mar 29, 2010 8:39 PM, "Eastlake" <ry...@shamrockdesign.com> wrote:
I agree. Google has the market place ... millions of people have
gmail accounts, millions of people are part of google groups (and
familiar with how they work), etc. etc. ... making it easier to join
and build membership up to the 2500 that this group is currently at.
It makes sense; the upsides of the success of membership building far
outweigh the downsides of how communication threads are organized.
Personally, I'm not advocating changing from google to anything else.
But, Google is a big, smart company ... they ought to be able to add
forum options to their google groups.
Maybe it's a long shot, and maybe it would take a lot of other groups
asking for the same functionality, but is there a way that we can give
them feedback saying that we'd love it if they would consider adding
forum options to their groups?
I'd be happy with that.
Thanks for humoring me!
On Mar 29, 3:30 pm, Tara Hunt <horsepig...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I've said it before and I'll say it ...
> On Mon, Mar 29, 2010 at 7:22 PM, Eastlake <r...@shamrockdesign.com> wrote:
> > Well, I'm a bit of ...
> > coworking+...@googlegroups.com<coworking%2Bunsu...@googlegroups.com>
> > .
> > For more options, visit this group at
> >http://groups.google.com/group/coworking?hl=en.
>...
scott anderson
We have found a very, very cool place, with an awesome landlord here in St Cloud, MN for our space. Everything has been incredibly easy, fun and they way it should be when opening up a coworking space. My big question is we are down to the lease. And our landlord is amazingly flexible, however it is a business venture and we want this to continue to go as smoothly as possibly. Since coworking is a fairly new concept to most attorneys, they can’t use a typical template type lease agreement. What have others used as far as contracts/leases, if it’s possible to share them?
Scott Anderson
Statewide Property Inspections
Web www.statewidepropertyinspections.com
Blog http://statewide-homeinspections.blogspot.com/
p.s If you thought my services were worth your time and money, I would greatly appreciate a short testimonial. A good word or two goes a long way when trying to grow my business.
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todd@c4workspace
The only ways I have found to keep up with the discussion here is: 1.
RSS feed of each post to my Google reader and 2. Set Email option with
Digest and then create a filter in my email program to place messages
from the group in a folder.
I shut off the RSS feed: there was just too much discussion to keep up
with. The Email Digest works great! In Gmail I have it set to one of
my primary folders. It tells me how many digest messages I have. I can
go in and peruse (like I did tonight) and read it (and reply/comment)
when I can.
The key to your success in joining the group is to participate in the
discussion. One of these two methods should work for you.
Cheers!
Todd O'Neill
C4 Workspace
San Antonio, TX