From Sarah King

[Andy Dewhirst]

Hi All-

 

The Adult Pool is almost ready for reopening. The new deck looks great- and a whole lot less slippery. When we reopen, the lane closest to the hot tub will remain the designated lap lane during masters swim. If attendance is low and coaches can open another lap lane (if needed), they will make that call. Masters will still have 5 lanes, nothing changing there. We are eliminating, or attempting to at least, the musical lanes that happens between Masters and Aqua Fit. AF will be moving to the other side of the pool @11am. I appreciate everyone’s patience while we’ve been sharing space this last month.

 

If you have any questions, please reach out. My info is below.  

 

SARAH KING 
Aquatics & Group Fitness Director

Bay Club Courtside
t: 408.458.4115

Sent from my iPhone

[Tim Nedom]

Hi Sarah,

Thank you for the update and good to meet you.  Now that masters has returned to experiencing a high turnout on a daily basis after the COVID slowdown, perhaps you can consider a reverse scenario regarding the designated lap lane and make it available to others only if it isn't needed to accommodate the masters swimmers.  Because there is another pool available for recreational swimmers, there is no reason to designate a lap lane during masters.  If Courtside decided to designate 1/6th of the Mind Body Studio or Studio A for recreational use during yoga, Zumba, Bodypump or other classes, I am sure the logic would be questioned.  When space is available, we are always happy to make a lane available.  

Thanks,

Tim

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[Cindy Bitner]

I was an active masters member at Courtside for a long time and am

Planning o. Getting back into the pool next month. This email

Raises two questions for me. First, can the group accommodate me?  I’m 71 but am experienced masters swimmer but am afraid I’m too slow for even the slowest Lane. Second, I would NOT want to do lap swimming I. The family pool primarily because the temp is too warm for a workout. So I’d hate to see the lap

Lane eliminated 

Cindy Bitner

Sent from my iPhone

On Feb 26, 2023, at 7:22 AM, 'Tim Nedom' via Courtside Masters <courtsid...@googlegroups.com> wrote:



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[Tim Nedom]

Hi Cindy,

Great question.  If the whole pool is designated for masters, then masters can accommodate swimmers of all levels.  Since we often have to swim in consolidated lanes, it makes the workouts too fast for some swimmers and too slow for others.  This is precisely why it doesn't make sense to have a designated lap swimming lane outside of masters.  Since we are all swimming laps, let's do it together with an organized workout.  There is no penalty for showing up late, leaving early or skipping a set.

Tim

[Tom Tisch]

Sarah

Let me second Tim Nedom’s comments here:

 Now that masters has returned to experiencing a high turnout on a daily basis after the COVID slowdown, perhaps you can consider a reverse scenario regarding the designated lap lane and make it available to others only if it isn't needed to accommodate the masters swimmers.  Because there is another pool available for recreational swimmers, there is no reason to designate a lap lane during masters.  If Courtside decided to designate 1/6th of the Mind Body Studio or Studio A for recreational use during yoga, Zumba, Bodypump or other classes, I am sure the logic would be questioned.  When space is available, we are always happy to make a lane available.  

Thanks,

Tim

Let me reinforce also that all are welcome if they can and will manage around the swimmers who are doing the workout (swims, kicks and drills).  There are some of us who are forced into faster lanes through a dedicated lap swimmer lane and then we too have to manage to stay out of the way of the faster swimmers.  So the lap lane reservation ripples through the entire pool.

Cindy

I for one would welcome you to come swim with the Masters again. It’s a nice group.  As a habitué of normally the slowest lane (and who manages about 60% of the workout whatever lane I am in) I think you would fit in fine.  In fact on some days you would diminish the average age in our lane substantially, since I have been swimming at Courtside since about 2000 and was no longer in my ’teens then.

Tom 

Tom Tisch
Saratoga, CA

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[Cindy Bitner]

Thanks for the encouragement. I used to swim at the 9:30 am workouts!  See you soon!

Sent from my iPhone

On Feb 26, 2023, at 5:44 PM, Tom Tisch <tti...@gmail.com> wrote:

Sarah

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[Rick Schaefer]

Hi Tim.  

 I’m not deaf to your plea. I'm a former masters swimmer (now too slow, injuries prevent stroke work, so I just freestyle lap swim).  My wife still swims masters with you all.  I’m sympathetic to the pacing issues with masters sharing fewer lanes.   But I’d like to respectfully point out a few issues that make your suggestion impractical.    -Sorry in advance that this reply is quite long, but I think it's important to take a look at all the issues at play. 

1)  From May-Sept there is really only ONE functional pool for members at Courtside, and that’s the Adult pool.       The Family pool is fully booked all summer with camp, lessons, and swim teams.  The kiddo programs all generate incremental revenue for Bay Club, so they aren’t going to cut those activities back.     And when I say fully booked, I mean there is literally no open time to swim in the family pool during those 4 months from club opening til late at night.  It’s scheduled every minute during the day.     I’m told BayClub could grow the kid program revenue if there was more swimming capacity, and building a 3rd pool would actually generate more revenue for the club.    (Look at how popular the ’training’ pool is at Redwood Shores.)     And a Centre Court location for the pool would have much greater member utilization than Center Court did when tennis was being played there pre-Covid. Decathlon/BayClub replaced their Center Court to increase their swimming capacity.   But regardless of where a new pool would be built, until there’s a 3rd pool, we’re all going to have to make sacrifices to play in the single ‘sandbox', particularly during the summer months.

2)  There are actually three (3) group-exercise functions that use the pool, and that’s excluding afternoon swim teams.  There is a 6:15-7:15 masters, 9:30 -10:30 masters, and aquafit (11a-noon). ---This means that from 6am until noon, group swimming activities use the only available pool 45 % of the time.---     I won’t compare masters swimmers to group ex other than to say when a group ex class ends, everybody has to leave.  But many masters swimmers either arrive late or want to swim longer. I support this flexibility, and I don’t think a master’s swimmer would appreciate being thrown out of the pool exactly when the class is finished.   (Remember all the clock watching during the Covid lane reservations? Ugh!)     Compared to other clubs, we have even more constraints on pool capacity mid-late morning.   Because of the aging demographic of Courtside members, we have a disproportionate number of retirees who like to swim later in the morning.     BayClub/Decathlon almost always has open lanes during the morning (everyone is working), but Courtside is often a traffic jam for swimmers.  Finding a time and lane to swim before 1pm is like playing Whack-a-Mole.

3) On some days (particularly mid week)  the 11am aquafit class has more participants than the 9:30a masters.  They only get 3 lanes, and they only get a 4th lane when there are more than 30 attendees.  And despite protests from some of the aquafit group who prefer deep water exercise, they were moved to the family pool from Oct-April when the kiddo classes & camps ended.    They still use the Adult pool 3 days a week as part of their compromise, so constraints remain even in the winter months.  (Again I acknowledge the pacing needs of masters vs aquafit, which is why masters need more lanes.) 

4) Most importantly, and this is going to be highly inflammatory, not all masters swimmers are as willing (as you are) to make a lane available to other swimmers.  In fact, a handful of masters swimmers are actually hurting your cause.   

    a) There was a shouting incident just this past week.  A few masters swimmers were mad that they had to give up their lane.  They had been warned an empty lane was reserved for lap swimming, but they chose to swim there anyway.  But when lap swimmers arrived, and they were asked to move over, and they then raised the roof.  Instead of being that happy masters wasn’t fully cancelled during the pool renovations, they chose an unproductive level of communication.  It didn’t win the masters program any brownie points. 

     b) This past year I was involved in a conversation with a group of swimmers who questioned (in all seriousness) why any slow swimmers, aqaufit classes, or recreation users should EVER be allowed to use the Adult pool.  They insisted they had a right to lap swim in a lane by themselves at any time they wanted. And they preferred not to share a lane. They believed they should be able to arrive late, and swim beyond the end of any class.   They wanted the adult pool to be renamed the  “LAP POOL”     If I hadn’t heard this myself, I’d say this was hyperbole.  But it really happened.  

    c) Don’t get me started on the body shaming aimed at the aquafit community.  They are an easy and vulnerable target. (I’ve been guilty of this on occasion, so I’m not throwing stones.)

    d) Sometimes when this type of communication has been transmitted to other members, it’s perceived as selfish entitlement, and it’s actually quite toxic.  You may not be aware, but there’s a groundswell of animosity growing from some members towards masters.  Some people just want to take a nice swim for 10 minutes after a workout, and they find themselves in the middle of a turf war, or on receiving end of some unfortunate communication.  I’ve heard many walk away muttering choice comments.  I’d hate to see member backlash cause masters classes to be curtailed or cancelled because a small group of swimmers don’t want to to play nice. 

 I’ve been swimming 4-6 days a week during the 10-noon time frame for 6+ years.  I swim with all 3 groups (masters, aquafit, and rec swimmers)  and I’ve come to understand each of their complaints.   I know the current situation isn’t optimal.   I wish masters could have 6 lanes for both classes,  and that aquafit could get a 4th (or even a 5th) lane when their classes are crowded.   But that’s not going to happen unless capacity restraints are removed.    There really are no good options right now.  The only solution, and I know it’s a compromise for everyone, is to share lanes.     

Rather than fighting over a constrained facility, let’s all unite in asking Bay Club to add a 3rd pool at Courtside.  It’s revenue generating, it creates better utilization of the facility, and it eases most of everyone’s complaints. 

Respectfully, 

Rick Schaefer

On Feb 25, 2023, at 10:22 AM, 'Tim Nedom' via Courtside Masters <courtsid...@googlegroups.com> wrote:

Hi Sarah,

Thank you for the update and good to meet you.  Now that masters has returned to experiencing a high turnout on a daily basis after the COVID slowdown, perhaps you can consider a reverse scenario regarding the designated lap lane and make it available to others only if it isn't needed to accommodate the masters swimmers.  Because there is another pool available for recreational swimmers, there is no reason to designate a lap lane during masters.  If Courtside decided to designate 1/6th of the Mind Body Studio or Studio A for recreational use during yoga, Zumba, Bodypump or other classes, I am sure the logic would be questioned.  When space is available, we are always happy to make a lane available.  

Thanks,

Tim

On Monday, February 20, 2023 at 09:53:54 PM PST, Andy Dewhirst <andrew....@gmail.com> wrote:

Hi All-

 

The Adult Pool is almost ready for reopening. The new deck looks great- and a whole lot less slippery. When we reopen, the lane closest to the hot tub will remain the designated lap lane during masters swim. If attendance is low and coaches can open another lap lane (if needed), they will make that call. Masters will still have 5 lanes, nothing changing there. We are eliminating, or attempting to at least, the musical lanes that happens between Masters and Aqua Fit. AF will be moving to the other side of the pool @11am. I appreciate everyone’s patience while we’ve been sharing space this last month.

 

If you have any questions, please reach out. My info is below.  

 

SARAH KING 
Aquatics & Group Fitness Director

Bay Club Courtside
t: 408.458.4115

Sent from my iPhone

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[Andrew Ferguson]

Following up on Tim’s email it is becoming unsafe on certain high turnout days.

The number of swimmers is increasing the chance for arm to arm collisions coming off the wall after the flip turn.

It would be unfortunate to have a shoulder or arm injury because we were accommodating one lap swimmer forcing 6+ swimmers per masters lane.

Additionally I’m confused regarding comments relating access to the kids pool, what kids are taking swim lessons M-F 6am-9am?

Thanks,

Andrew

408 460 8720

Ferguson...@gmail.com

On Feb 25, 2023, at 10:22 AM, 'Tim Nedom' via Courtside Masters <courtsid...@googlegroups.com> wrote:



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[Tim Nedom]

Hi Rick,

I apologize but I should have mentioned that I only do the early morning masters program.  Therefore, we don't see any of the conflicts that were mentioned in your thorough message.  By the way, you are welcome to join us anytime.  We have plenty of swimmers that only do freestyle due to injury or choice, and many that leave early or get in late.  We also have plenty that sit out a set, pull on the lane lines, or turn around mid pool.  The masters program is very accommodating and the people are great.  That is the only reason that many of us belong to Courtside.  You have our vote for building a new pool, especially if they do it correctly and include gutters.

Thanks,
Tim  

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[Rick Schaefer]

Hi Tim, 

Thanks for the kind invitation.  Shoulder surgeries (plus Father Time)  have reduced my speed to the point that I now time myself with a sundial instead of a pace clock :-)      As much I’d love to swim masters again,  I don’t want to clog up an early morning lane swimming my 100s on the 2:30.  The pool is crowded enough with faster swimmers, and I have the luxury of a flexible schedule.  Note- I do occasionally sneak into a slow 9:30 master's lane. I appreciate being included, and it helps free up the lap swim lane for others. Thanks to those in the 9:30 masters!

I am considering working to develop a compelling economic argument that would get BayClub’s attention about a 3rd pool.    Any ideas out there?

Respectfully

Rick Schaefer

[Bryan McDonald]

Thank you for your very thoughtful replies Rick. Being a father of four kids that love Courtside, I’m a huge fan of the summer camps, swim teams, lessons and kiddo programs. Thank you for saying “I wish masters could have 6 lanes for both classes,  and that aquafit could get a 4th (or even a 5th) lane when their classes are crowded.” (I love the energy of the Aqua fit class and had no idea that they wanted another lane or two as their work outs are so different than lap swimming (which does not utilize the lanes as efficiently as aqua fit (since aqua fit attendees are often ‘jogging in place’)).

I’ve been member at courtside since 1997 (my membership id changed due to a divorce :) and a masters swimmer for over 20 years (back when we were blessed to have olympic gold medalist Chris Cavanaugh (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chris_Cavanaugh_(swimmer)) and Michelle Dixon as coaches (we’ve been blessed by so many amazing coaches, including the amazing coaching staff today)).

Throughout those 20 years of masters, we always had 6 lanes while the lap swimmers had 5 lanes in the other pool (and lap swimmers have always been welcome to our workouts (usually the slow lane (and I welcome lap swimmers to join us during our cool down as we are professional in the art of sharing lanes :))). 

You brought up some fiery exchanges between masters swimmers and non-masters swimmers, and that is most unfortunate. I’ve witnessed non-masters swimmers attempting to crash our workouts with blatant disregard to the pace (i.e. hop in a lane that’s too fast for them). This is where our coaches deserve high praise as they gently nudge the swimmer to the appropriate location.

I am still vexed as to how masters successfully utilized the six lanes in the adult pool for 20+ years but now there is a mandatory lap lane at the 6:15am workout. As Mr. Ferguson previously pointed out, there are no kiddo activities at 6:15am that could create a constraint on the dedicated lap pool, thus mandating that 67% of the available lanes are to be dedicated to lap swimming puzzles me (5 lanes of the lap pool + 1 lane in the adult pool = 67%).

respectfully submitted,
bryan mcdonald 
senior product design manager
apple 

On Feb 26, 2023, at 8:45 PM, Rick Schaefer <rick.s...@gmail.com> wrote:



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[Anosha Shokrpour]

Thanks, I think it worked! 

Anosha  

Sent from my iPhone

On Feb 26, 2023, at 6:40 PM, 'Tim Nedom' via Courtside Masters <courtsid...@googlegroups.com> wrote:



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[Sutherland, Chip @ San Jose]

No power at Court

Chip Sutherland

CBRE

408-453-7410 o

510-381-0269 c

Lic. 01014633

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From: courtsid...@googlegroups.com <courtsid...@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Anosha Shokrpour <ashok...@gmail.com>
Sent: Monday, February 27, 2023 9:13:39 PM
To: Tim Nedom <timn...@yahoo.com>
Cc: Rick Schaefer <rick.s...@gmail.com>; courtsid...@googlegroups.com <courtsid...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: From Sarah King

 

External

 

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[Sutherland, Chip @ San Jose]

No power at Courtside- club closed 

Chip Sutherland

CBRE

408-453-7410 o

510-381-0269 c

Lic. 01014633

---

From: 'Sutherland, Chip @ San Jose' via Courtside Masters <courtsid...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, March 22, 2023 6:02:10 AM
To: Anosha Shokrpour <ashok...@gmail.com>; Tim Nedom <timn...@yahoo.com>

 

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