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gene
Apr 8, 2018, 12:39:12 PM4/8/18
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Need some advice please....
The concrete i finish keeps losing the cream and exposing the rocks..
I am using 1 2 3 mix...
Have tried 1 3 3 mix also...
I bullnose and hand trowel...
The more exposure to water...
The quicker and more severe losing the crust...as in where the pigs reside...
And where we milk...
Chicken slab seems to weather fine...
I am water curing for about a week...
Using general purpose cement or so it says on the sack...
Is the cement here inferior??
Am i doing something wrong...
Or is normal wear and tear under heavy and/or wet enviornments???
Thanks in advance
Gene
...
Sam Wilson
Apr 8, 2018, 2:04:07 PM4/8/18
to Living in Costa Rica
Gene,
Concrete finishing seems to involve a good bit of magic! Or at least lots of experience to get it right the first time. I used to work in construction doing this sort of stuff in my 20's but that was a LONG time ago... jajaja. My only recent cement experience has been trying to tell our favorite handy man how to mix the concrete for a rancho we were building on the farm and a stab or two I took at making some ferrocement flower pots. The handy man totally didn't do what I told him and his halfway attempt at doing what he knew was wrong, ended up poorly.
Can you post some pics of the damage or finish you are talking about? You're not talking about bug-holes (i.e. exposed bubble voids) right? But rather what was a smooth finish chipping away with usage? I wonder if you are over-working the concrete pour? Doing that will draw too much cement and fine sand to the top and create a weak surface.
Are you using a broom to create a textured surface for better traction? I think the trick to a nice broom finish is to do it at the right time. Too early and you end up pushing cement in front of the broom. Too late and your broom does nothing but knock off the dust... ;-)
I think almost all of the cement in Guanacaste where you live would come from the Cemex plant out by El Puente de (ex-) Amistad. The raw materials might actually be coming from a quarry just up-hill from Bagaces.
I know you can find a gazillion tips online about this, but here's a nice how-to page geared for the handyman without fancy power-finishing tools:
How to Finish Concrete
When mixing C20P concrete, a general purpose mix for garden paths, fence posts, etc. (but not for foundations) a common ratio is 1:2:4 (cement:sand:rock). When mixing C35P (a very strong mix) a common ratio is 1:1:2. Using as little water as you can get away with should result in stronger concrete. Of course dry concrete is much more difficult to work with...
This mix guide from the Australian Cement company suggests:
This mix guide from the Australian Cement company suggests:
1:1.5:3 - improved water tightness, high strength
1:2:3 - paths, driveways, patios
1:3:3 - foundations, footings
My free advice which is worth about what you paid for it, is to use more cement, less water, and work the finish less.
Send some pics! As an arm-chair handyman myself, I love seeing the hard-work of others! jajajaja.
--
Sam
Sam Wilson
Apr 8, 2018, 2:25:31 PM4/8/18
to Living in Costa Rica
Gene,
I forgot to add, that adding a dry shake topping and then trowelling it in is another technique for providing a hardened surface. However I'd be shocked if your local El Colono carries much in that regard -- although our local El Colono does carry the dry shake cement pigments. However, in typical Tico fashion, we might be able to infer what is commonly used as a dry shake topping and come up with something similar we can find locally? Note, the risk of delamination of the surface layer increases when using a dry shake topping, so user beware.
Is this what is happening to your floors?
The CoGripedia has a few tips on this here: Delamination.
Good luck!
--
Sam
On Sun, Apr 8, 2018 at 12:04 PM, Sam Wilson <sliw...@gmail.com> wrote:
Gene,Concrete finishing seems to involve a good bit of magic!
[ ... ]
gene
Apr 9, 2018, 2:53:49 AM4/9/18
to costa-ri...@googlegroups.com
-------- Original message --------
From: gene <ge...@genefrench.com>
Date: 4/8/18 2:20 PM (GMT-06:00)
To: Sam Wilson <sliw...@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Living in Costa Rica] Re: Cement
gene
Apr 9, 2018, 2:59:31 AM4/9/18
to costa-ri...@googlegroups.com
-------- Original message --------
From: gene <ge...@genefrench.com>
Date: 4/8/18 2:08 PM (GMT-06:00)
To: Sam Wilson <sliw...@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Living in Costa Rica] Re: Cement
My entries (broom swept) are perfect
gene
Apr 9, 2018, 3:24:19 AM4/9/18
to costa-ri...@googlegroups.com
-------- Original message --------
From: gene <ge...@genefrench.com>
Date: 4/9/18 12:33 AM (GMT-06:00)
To: Joe Harrison <joeharr...@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Living in Costa Rica] Cement
I definitely am not overworking the cement...but neither am i an expert...nor a novice...
Just cant get the results that i did in eeuu on similar projects...but i was not mixing my own...
I used a local to help pour a slab for a 20 foot container i use for a bodega...after two weeks plus...the backhoe i was using to slide it into position broke part of the slab...
And yes...i had enough rebar and steel mesh...
I dont know either...
Gene
Sam Wilson
Apr 13, 2018, 6:45:46 PM4/13/18
to Living in Costa Rica
Gene,
Nice looking cow path! ;-)
I'd expect that gets a little more beating as they climb up to the milking barn.
Is your malla electrosoldada welded to tubes at the bottom as well? I wonder
if hungry cows pushing their way up the path would bust that out a bit.
Let me know when you're available to practice some more... I've got a rancho
out back I'd like to make bigger and we need a bigger pad... jajaja.
I have found that we cannot keep an old bag of cement around even under
roof. By the time I get around to using it, it is rock hard by the high humidity.
Congrats!
--
Sam
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gene
Apr 13, 2018, 7:50:25 PM4/13/18
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Thanks.....i am happy with it...
No...it is not built to withstand a raging bull...but should be no problem for milk cows...the milking shed is more substantial...using 2.5" tubes...
The fence is welded to 40 cm #3 rebar driven into the ground. ..then we covered it with cement...
I consider it sufficient...for milk cows...
You are welcome to the welder when you need it...but i am not a welder...i can be described as a dobber..
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
Btw...got a new calf yesterday...
7 since jan 1.
Enclosed is pic of mom and son!!!
Gene
-------- Original message --------
From: Sam Wilson <sliw...@gmail.com>
Date: 4/13/18 4:45 PM (GMT-06:00)
To: Living in Costa Rica <costa-ri...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: [Living in Costa Rica] Cement
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to costa-rica-liv...@googlegroups.com.
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Berni J
Apr 13, 2018, 8:01:10 PM4/13/18
to Living in Costa Rica
wow a cement geek thread, we have a cement slap in front of the hotel, that looks like crap. The cement is essentially solid but the surface is damaged and ugly. Do we have to replace the whole thing or can we paste something on it? Berni (not a cement guy but amused at the cement efforts for 8 or so years on the Platina Bridge)
On Sunday, April 8, 2018 at 10:39:12 AM UTC-6, gene wrote:
Sam Wilson
Apr 13, 2018, 8:25:46 PM4/13/18
to Living in Costa Rica
Berni,
Definitely fixable! Especially with your nearby access to the world of options you've got in the GAM, like EPA. Check out the fixing delamination link I posted earlier in this thread. EPA might have one of those resin-based things they refer to, or perhaps the dry shake topping which can be used to put a better surface on top of existing concrete. For me it is a 10 hour round trip to the nearest EPA and so out here we end up inventing a lot of things you might be able to buy off the shelf. You could also probably find some real concrete pros in the Central Valley rather than rely upon your local handyman to "fix" things.
Then there's always what I usually do... tile the whole darn thing! ;-)
Then there's always what I usually do... tile the whole darn thing! ;-)
--
Sam
gene
Apr 13, 2018, 8:26:14 PM4/13/18
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If your slab i structurally sonns...why not pour a slab on top???
I had to do that once in louisiana when torrential rain ruined my slab...
I am a firm believer in mesh and rebar
Most of the slabs here are rough finished...since they almost always put ceramic tile on top...
A slick finished slab outside is dangerous...
Most broom sweep it...
The parking lot at the bank was rough finished and a 1/2 " crust (similar to repello) put on top...
You can imagine what it looks like now...
🤣🤣
Good luck...
Gene
-------- Original message --------
From: Berni J <bern...@gmail.com>
Date: 4/13/18 6:01 PM (GMT-06:00)
To: Living in Costa Rica <costa-ri...@googlegroups.com>
--
Berni J
Apr 13, 2018, 10:32:09 PM4/13/18
to Living in Costa Rica
No idea how these threads work but "what fixing delamination link" am I to find where? Berni
On Sunday, April 8, 2018 at 10:39:12 AM UTC-6, gene wrote:
Sam Wilson
Apr 13, 2018, 11:15:01 PM4/13/18
to Living in Costa Rica
Berni,
Sorry, I'm learning a little more every day about how the Google Groups work as well. I meant to include a link back to that message which I posted on this thread earlier with a pic of delamination and a link to some of the fixes:
I also asked Jorge of JMH Construction to chime in if he's got a chance. I think he knows more about concrete in Costa Rica than all of us combined! ;-)
Can you post a pic or two of your slab to illustrate the problem you face?
--
Sam
gene
Apr 14, 2018, 11:23:45 AM4/14/18
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It is still here this morning....nobody hauled it off!!!
Berni J
Apr 14, 2018, 11:26:08 AM4/14/18
to Living in Costa Rica
gene
Apr 14, 2018, 11:53:23 AM4/14/18
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Looks to me the same as the bank...a layer of "repello" 1/2 " or so on top of a slab...so they could put in anti skid lines...notice the slab underneath is intact and no rocks showing...
Cheapest thing to do imho is power wash clean with brush y muratic acid and recoat the missing finished layer...
Will probably break again in a few years...but how many years did it take to get this bad...
As sam said maybe there is a more superior product than cement to better make a new crust if you decide to chip off old crust...
I you just patch it then you could seal and/or paint it...done properly it will seal the top and stop water from eroding the bond...
And it looks great painted...and much easier to keep clean...
Hope it works out for you!!!
Gene
gene
Apr 14, 2018, 12:07:22 PM4/14/18
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One time a friend lost his slab finish due to rain on his pack patio when he added it to his home...he used por-rok...add water...pour id down ... self levels...done
I would still paint when done...will hide the patches
Sam Wilson
Apr 14, 2018, 12:18:03 PM4/14/18
to Living in Costa Rica
Berni,
Delamination can be repaired by removing the entire surface in the affected area, preparing and cleaning the newly exposed surface (by scabbling or similar) then filling with a cementitious or resin-based mortar system.
I recognize that yellow tapia and entrance on the corner! I know I've passed by your front gate about a year or so ago when taking a back route from Pequeño Mundo in Alajuela back to Guanacaste -- okay, probably it was the result of a wrong turn on a dark road while it was raining, but I was trying to get back to Guanacaste... Small world and even smaller country... jajaja.
--
Sam
Berni J
Apr 15, 2018, 3:58:32 PM4/15/18
to Living in Costa Rica
Thanks Guys . . . I will show this info to my guy who has never heard of it but is willing to learn . . . .Berni (essentially incompetent at fixing stuff)
Sam Wilson
Apr 16, 2018, 7:24:23 PM4/16/18
to Living in Costa Rica
Berni,
I've never really found any decent EPA website listing products w/prices, etc.
El Lagar has an online presence, but their "morteros" doesn't seem to list much
besides the basic grouts, etc:
ConstruCR.com is another "digital ferretería" that I sometimes use to look up
prices and options in Costa Rica, they've got this:
But I've never used it and of course details are hard to come by... ;-)
Cemex themselves list several special purpose products on their website:
But I think you'd have better luck going to a trusted ferreteria and explaining
to someone who really understands concrete problems what you want to fix.
Hopefully they'd be able to direct you to the correct product/process for fixing
your entrance right... the 1st time!
That being said, I'd guess you probably need concrete work done by a real
concrete finisher rather than your handyman -- someone who does concrete
for a living. Driveways are pretty generic and shouldn't need some super
specialized stuff to make them right.
Just guessing... We tile over almost all of our concrete work so we don't
have to look at it... jajaja!
Good luck!
Sam
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