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Gene French
Apr 7, 2019, 11:46:42 AM4/7/19
to Living in Costa Rica
Good morning group...i have just wrapped up my 2current solar projects...i bought six 325 watt canadian solar panels with iq6+ enphase microinverters and the envoy control center...i am amazed...i can only produce what i consume due to being denied net metering from ICE...my daily average imported from the grid daytime usage (7am to 5pm) is around 1 kwh ...my enphase is programmed for zero export...of course at night i import 100% from the grid...my bills have been reduced from a high of 116 000 to 40 000 per month...it is best if you make minor adjustments in your lifestyle to help reduce importation...for example...we wash after 8 or 9 am when the panels handle the load...anything that consumes power that can wait till panels are active helps more than you think...i have 3 areas i needed to work on...i have 3 on demand hot water tanks...they are 2 stage drawing 28 amps then 45 amps when high demand occurs...the panels can not keep up with that...in high demand times...i know my panels can produce 12 amps ...far short of the 30 or 45 from the tanks...
Therefore...i built a solar batch hot water system...it is 60 gallons made from a long abandoned ICE steam pipe that was removed from service...my son jerry welded it all up for us...took a day or two to add the inputs outputs and circulation lines...i wrapped the system with 3/4 inch cpvc.reduced to 1/2 at the hot water tanks...i also made a drop to the laundry room for hot water to the washer...i had provisions for a tank there...i just never put it in...the heater is 2o meters in back of my home next to the solar panels...i buried the tubes to the house inside 3 " sanitary pupe sealed and filled with sawdust...i insulated the above ground pipes running through the attic with kids pool noodles.. (thanks sam for the tip)...being a long distance i knew there would be a wait at the sink/shower/washer for the water to become hot...i simply ordered an 80 dollar hot water circulation pump...and a one way valve so not to backfeed hot water...the pump is designed to run directy from a 15+ watt solar panel...in the day when the pump is running gives you near instant hot water...at night circulation stops to aid in conservation of the heated water...yesterday we washed 3 loads of clothes ... did dishes etc and 3 after dark showers ..we still had hot water in the morning...although not scalding hot...but comforable enough for a shower...by 8 am...it is producing hot water again...i put valves on the water so i can put the hot water tanks back as original if necessary...i also put a 220 switch which is normally off on each tank...in cases where there is not enough hot water you simply turn on the switch...hot water in 15 seconds...so far we have not needed to do that...
I have kept detailed data on this for the last six month...to size and maintain and tweak the system...so far sam and i have been very accurate!!! We will know more in the next few months how much the water system helps out our bill from ICE...
My investment....7500 dollars for both systems with anticipated return on investment in 6 to 8 years...too many variables ahead to predict any closer...
Indeed no telling how expensive electricity will bein 8 more years...no matter...i am covered. .
My next project will be an offgrid system consisting of one 325 panel to charge 24v x 125 ah battery assembly to handle the 1.5 kwh consumed by the predawn milking machine...
then a solar or wind powered irrigation pump from the small river to my truck patch...only people from louisiana know what a truck patch is!!!
Pura vida
Gene
Sam Wilson
Apr 7, 2019, 6:17:41 PM4/7/19
to Living in Costa Rica
Gene,
I'm certainly surprised how well your solar batch water heater is working. As you know from our discussions I'm sold on the thermosiphon idea, but the simple batch water heater seems to be doing the trick so much better than I expected. I might end up doing both... My application for this is two-fold - heating water for the house, which is easy, but also heating water for the jacuzzi. I think I might need the performance of the thermosiphon for the jacuzzi. Maybe I'll combine it with your batch heater idea to provide the greater volume of hot water required by the jacuzzi... Here is the plan I drew up for my thermosiphon solar water heater (using the free Inventor Fusion app.)
The long tubes are 1.9 m to fit in the channels of a regular lamina of 1.8 m corrugated tin. Al the tubes, codos, uniónes, etc. are CPVC to handle temps up to 90ºC. I'm leaving the collector tubes unboxed and uninsulated to avoid exceeding the max 90ºC working temp. I like my jacuzzis a little less than 90ºC anyway... ;-)
I just need to complete the tank and then we'll be able to compare batch versus thermosiphon solar water heater ideas...
Congratulations Gene for completing your projects! I hope to have fotos of my completed project ready to post soon!
On Sun, Apr 7, 2019 at 9:46 AM Gene French <ge...@genefrench.com> wrote:
Therefore...i built a solar batch hot water system...it is 60 gallons made from a long abandoned ICE steam pipe that was removed from service...my son jerry welded it all up for us...took a day or two to add the inputs outputs and circulation lines...i wrapped the system with 3/4 inch cpvc.reduced to 1/2 at the hot water tanks...i also made a drop to the laundry room for hot water to the washer...i had provisions for a tank there...i just never put it in...the heater is 2o meters in back of my home next to the solar panels...i buried the tubes to the house inside 3 " sanitary pupe sealed and filled with sawdust...i insulated the above ground pipes running through the attic with kids pool noodles.. (thanks sam for the tip)...being a long distance i knew there would be a wait at the sink/shower/washer for the water to become hot...i simply ordered an 80 dollar hot water circulation pump...and a one way valve so not to backfeed hot water...the pump is designed to run directy from a 15+ watt solar panel...in the day when the pump is running gives you near instant hot water...at night circulation stops to aid in conservation of the heated water...yesterday we washed 3 loads of clothes ... did dishes etc and 3 after dark showers ..we still had hot water in the morning...although not scalding hot...but comforable enough for a shower...by 8 am...it is producing hot water again...i put valves on the water so i can put the hot water tanks back as original if necessary...i also put a 220 switch which is normally off on each tank...in cases where there is not enough hot water you simply turn on the switch...hot water in 15 seconds...so far we have not needed to do that...
--
Sam
Sam Wilson
Apr 12, 2019, 12:28:02 PM4/12/19
to Living in Costa Rica
Gene,
On Sunday, April 7, 2019 at 9:46:42 AM UTC-6, Gene French wrote:
Good morning group...i have just wrapped up my 2current solar projects...i bought six 325 watt canadian solar panels
Just sharing the battery specs Chaves found in Liberia...
La Casa de las Baterías in Liberia has some Trojan batteries:
T-1275 150 Ah (C20) for ¢293.913 and SCS200 115 Ah (C20) for ¢234.927
In USD that looks like it would be about $490 and $390 respectively for 12v deep-cycle flooded lead acid batteries made by one of the biggies in solar storage. These particular batteries are ones Trojan makes with Marine or RV applications in mind. Not quite as good as their RE product line for this sort of thing, but sometimes Ticos and expats can't be choosy! ;-)
Here are the spec-sheets for each of those batteries:
The first hit I get on Amazon for these batteries tells me the SCS200 is $299 + $45 shipping ($344 compared to in Liberia for $390) and the T-1275 is $284 + $259 shipping ($542 compared to in Liberia for $490.)
That is the first time in awhile that I've been pleasantly surprised by prices in Costa Rica compared to Amazon for non-local stuff. Of course if I were doing this in the US, I would not be paying shipping for batteries. I'd find a local store, drive over there and heft them into the back of my pickup to avoid exorbitant shipping costs. Bottom-line is that off-grid energy storage in Costa Rica can be had for not too terribly bad prices.
--
Sam
Gene French
Apr 12, 2019, 6:32:17 PM4/12/19
to Living in Costa Rica
We not in kansas anymore dorothy...
🤣🤣🤣
I am going to abandon this milking project...saving only 6000 per month at 1.5kwh per day at 240 colonies/kwh...hardly seems worth it considering a battery change before roi is completed...will save this money for another 6 panels when ice accepts net metering here...better investment!!!
Keith Flannigan
Apr 12, 2019, 9:01:07 PM4/12/19
to costa-ri...@googlegroups.com
Just watched a show on the History channel that laid out the facts that it takes more energy to build the cars and dig the lithium for the batteries than what they save. They also pointed out that the batteries only lasted half as long as advertised and the changing of cells and the handling of the hazardous materials doubles the cost. I think I need to look into the new wind system. I saw one that looks like a heat pump and can run a 1500 square foot house. So if you had 2 or 3 that should do i.
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Joe Harrison
Apr 12, 2019, 9:03:24 PM4/12/19
to costa-ri...@googlegroups.com
Gene, do you know or can you guess why ICE refused to let you sell your output into the grid? Seems we need everything we can get. There must be a shortage; our power here on Blvd Rohrmoser in beautiful downtown Rohrmoser, home of the rich and famous (of which yours truly is decidedly NOT included) went out 7 times this past week, 3 times on one day alone. This is occurring with annoying and increasing frequency. joe
On Fri, Apr 12, 2019 at 4:32 PM Gene French <ge...@genefrench.com> wrote:
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Gene French
Apr 13, 2019, 4:47:21 AM4/13/19
to Living in Costa Rica
What about the fact that it take more energy and greenhouse gasses to charge the batteries than power and resources saved by using electric vehicles...remember no process is 100% efficient...if everyone installed a 75 amp charging station in their home to charge up...it would deplete the grid...
The answer is hydrogen...hydrogen and oxygen combine to form water when burned in the internal combustion engine...which is then split and returned to hydrogen and oxygen...hydrogen is the most abundant element in the universe...
Seems like a no brainer...i wrote a paper on this in high school...50 years ago..
.i too would like to experiment with wind generation of power....we have 62 windmills for power in our neighborhood...
Gene French
Apr 13, 2019, 5:01:40 AM4/13/19
to Living in Costa Rica
1. ICE wants me to buy power from them....for profit...not manage my power..
2. According to the grapevine...ICE has a glut of power...not interested in buying more from clients...
3. ICE has a lot of overhead...coca cola uses suzukis for their corporate fleet...ICE has quite a collection of land cruisers...
all i have done here is to promote generation for my consumption...a bit tricky...to find the right combination for roi and power needs met...sam and i almost daily rehash new ideas and exchange data...i think sam will do some solar/battery project for hus computer/work farm...with solar hot water added for good measure!!!
We keep detailed data on the production/consumption of the most expensive electricity in all of central america...from 2.5 to 5 times more expensive that what my son pays in alexandria louisiana...depending on the season...
Someone failed business administration 101 here...
Sam Wilson
Apr 13, 2019, 10:35:04 AM4/13/19
to Living in Costa Rica
LiCR,
On Sat, Apr 13, 2019 at 3:01 AM Gene French <ge...@genefrench.com> wrote:
2. According to the grapevine...ICE has a glut of power...not interested in buying more from clients...
On Apr 12, 2019, at 7:03 PM, Joe Harrison <joeharr...@gmail.com> wrote:
Gene, do you know or can you guess why ICE refused to let you sell your output into the grid? Seems we need everything we can get. There must be a shortage; our power here [...] went out 7 times this past week, 3 times on one day alone.
My simple argument was then why doesn't ICE lower the price of electricity. A win-win for all. Cheaper electricity for the masses and ICE doesn't have to idle a bunch of equipment. Probably like Gene mentioned, lack of economic savvy in the political class...
--
Sam
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