Footnotes
Carlos Tadeu Lauand
Hi,
I'm having some problems with footnotes. When there is a lot oh footnotes in
a chapter, Ventura 8 makes a confusion in numbering the footnotes, sometimes
loosing or not showing some footnotes in a page. I use VP 8, SP2, W98.
Is there a solution?
Thanks
Tadeu
Abe Hendin
Yes, Tadeu. I seem to have misplaced my boilerplate text on this, now
wish I had asked Eric to put it in the FAQ!
In brief: The problem arises because Ventura has trouble figuring out
how to balance body and note text satisfactorily, so things get out of
control--inconsistent for sure.
I have found manually breaking the para at the bottom of problem pages
to be the solution, and I use special para tags specifically to format
the text to look like there is no break. The break relieves the stress
on Ventura's text-handling algorithms, and things usually return to normal.
--
Abe Hendin
http://yourspeed.com
Ventura scripts: http://yourspeed.com/vscripts.html
Ventura automation help: http://yourspeed.com/vscripthelp.html
Eric Weber
In article <40e2fd29$1_2@cnews>, Abe Hendin <ne...@youremspeed.com>
says...
> Yes, Tadeu. I seem to have misplaced my boilerplate text on this, now
> wish I had asked Eric to put it in the FAQ!
Abe --
If you find it, e-mail it to me!
-- Eric
[C_TECH Volunteer]
http://www.fhcomm.com
Check out the Ventura FAQ at:
http://www.draw.nu/venturafaq/
or download a PDF copy at:
http://www.fhcomm.com/VenturaFAQ.pdf
Jim Hart
In article <40e2fd29$1_2@cnews>, ne...@youremspeed.com says...
> In brief: The problem arises because Ventura has trouble figuring out
> how to balance body and note text satisfactorily, so things get out of
> control--inconsistent for sure.
>
In my experience, much of the problem is caused by a note refernece
being forced to break to the next page for some reason. This can be
caused by by widows and orphans settings, or by the resizing of a
footnote frame, or some other reason, but the most common which affects
both footnotes and endnotes is Widows and Orphans.
When a line in a paragraph is forced to break to the next page because
of widows and orphans, and the line contains a note reference, the
numbering gets out sequence. The reason is that the notes on a page are
numbered before widows and orphans are analyzed and corrected. If a note
reference is forced to the next page as a result, the original page is
not renumbered. When the next page which now contains the note reference
is numbered, the note reference gets a new number which is incremented
by one from the last note on the previous page. But what was the last
note on the previous page is no longer there so a number is missing from
the sequence.
Example: Page 1 contains notes 1 - 5. Note ref 5 is in the last line on
the page which is the next to last line of the paragraph. With W&O set
to 2, this forces the last two lines of the paragraph to break to the
next page. Now page 1 contains notes 1 - 4 and the 5th note is on page
2. When the notes on page 2 are numbered, the first available note
number is 6 so the 5th note gets #6 and there is no longer a note
numbered as 5.
The obvious workaround is to set W&O to 1 or not allow breaks within
paragraphs. This will usually solve the probelem for endnotes. For
footnotes, the footnote frame itself may be forcing the break and this
opens a whole different can of worms.
--
Jim Hart
www.microtecniqs.com
Ventura FAQ available at:
http://www.draw.nu/venturafaq/
Abe Hendin
Interesting analysis, Jim.
Jim Hart wrote:
> The obvious workaround is to set W&O to 1 or not allow breaks within
> paragraphs. This will usually solve the probelem for endnotes. For
> footnotes, the footnote frame itself may be forcing the break and this
> opens a whole different can of worms.
We're talking about footnotes here. And neither setting w/o to 1 nor
disabling breaks within paras is a viable workaround for most decent
typography.
--
Abe Hendin
http://www.yourspeed.com
Ventura scripts: http://www.yourspeed.com/vscripts.html
Ventura automation help: http://www.yourspeed.com/vscripthelp.html
Jim Hart
In article <40e331ec$1_2@cnews>, ne...@youremspeed.com says...
> And neither setting w/o to 1 nor
> disabling breaks within paras is a viable workaround for most decent
> typography.
>
Disabling either or both is perfectly acceptable typography if you take
responsibility for controlling the breaks yourself which is what you do
with your workaround of manually breaking the paragraphs.
Abe Hendin
Jim Hart wrote:
> Disabling either or both is perfectly acceptable typography if you take
> responsibility for controlling the breaks yourself which is what you do
> with your workaround of manually breaking the paragraphs.
True.
Richard Pickvance
Footnotes and endnotes are in my experience the most dysfunctional area of
CVP8, and responsible for wasting more of my time than any other feature. I
have read the replies to the original posting, but they do not appear to
explain the numerous problems that I get. On several typesetting contracts I
have been reduced to converting the genuine notes into fake ones, i.e.
saving the notes as a regular file, converting the note references into
straight superscripts, and reimporting the notes file into specially created
fake footnote frames. This does incidentally solve one problem, that CVP
only allows you one type of footnote frame, whereas publishers may want an
extended fence over a frame that contains a footnote continuation. (If
anyone knows another fix for this problem, let the group know.)
The manual conversion process is of course a pain if you are dealing with
books that have 1000+ notes (which seems to be my usual situation). There
are scripts or utilities around that claim to do some of the conversion for
you. I could not get the Tramontana script to work for me
(http://www.tramontana.co.hu/ventura/szkript/scripts.html). You may also
have problems if your browser screws up the line breaks in the script during
the download. There is a utility called Notestripper (for use on MS Word
files) on www.editorium.com, but I have not tried it yet.
On a related matter, does anyone know how to delete a phantom endnote from
the endnote file? You are suppose to delete endnotes by deleting the
reference in the text, but if the endnote does not correspond to anything in
the text ... Endnote files can only be created piecemeal, so you can't
reimport an endnote file after cleaning it up externally.
"Carlos Tadeu Lauand" <mctpro...@uol.com.br> wrote in message
news:40e2cc50_1@cnews...
Abe Hendin
Richard Pickvance wrote:
> On a related matter, does anyone know how to delete a phantom endnote from
> the endnote file? You are suppose to delete endnotes by deleting the
> reference in the text, but if the endnote does not correspond to anything in
> the text ... Endnote files can only be created piecemeal, so you can't
> reimport an endnote file after cleaning it up externally.
Richard,
Have you tried exporting the body as ANSI to see if you can find
something funny at the phantom note location? I assume you've tried
updating the pub when the phantom note is visible in CE view. You could
also try a quick rebuild.
Incidentally, I'm currently in the middle of a couple of projects
testing my oh-so-slow-to-develop Marker/Xref note method. So far so
good. The numbers are automatically generated by section numbering,
notes can be added and deleted without renumbering all notes, they can
be cross-referenced (woohoo!), and even hyperlinked for PDF.
Anyhow, send me an email (remove "rem") if you'd like me to add you to
my footnote project email list. It's likely to be some time before you
hear anything (no one's heard anything yet), as it isn't yet ready for
public release. I've been swamped with other things, alas.
--
Abe Hendin
AtYourSpeed Consulting