Good News or Bad ? Xmetal is gone
Feargal Hogan
Hi Guys
Just got off the phone to the CorelUK office who have advised that Xmetal has been
sold back to a Vancouver BC based outfit staffed mainly by ex-SoftQuad people.
Seemingly the CW is that Xmetal was never really a good fit with Corel Products
That I dispute. It was just that they couldn't see a way to bind it into the
product range properly. As usual they didn't understand the market.
I don't reckon it bodes well for VP especially VPXML
Feargal
Taddeus
Well, well, which is next to be sold? VP?
--
Guy
www.guyverville.com
À paraître au printemps 2004/To be published in Spring 2004
Les Années-rebours (http:www.varia.com/livre.asp?id=74)
Eric Weber
In article <40223b9d$1_1@cnews>, Feargal Hogan
<fearg...@Spam.portinfo.co.uk> says...
> Seemingly the CW is that Xmetal was never really a good fit with Corel Products
>
> That I dispute. It was just that they couldn't see a way to bind it into the
> product range properly. As usual they didn't understand the market.
>
> I don't reckon it bodes well for VP especially VPXML
I would offer a differing opinion. Corel has been actively trying to
focus the company more on its core strengths: graphics and content
creation. Although XMetaL fits somewhat into content creation, it's
probably a better tool for editing XML than for creating it.
As for what this means for Ventura, I think it bodes well that Corel
would sell XMetaL rather than kill/ignore it. Corel is faced with a
similar decision about Ventura: Does it fit within the company's core
mission? I think the answer is "yes." But even if it isn't, the XMetaL
sale gives me more hope that Corel will sell Ventura to someone who
continues to develop it.
-- Eric
[C_TECH Volunteer]
http://www.fhcomm.com
Check out the Ventura FAQ at:
http://www.draw.nu/venturafaq/
or download a PDF copy at:
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DJ
Eric:
I have been a user of VP since 1988. But, really let's face reality. Who would
possibly buy it at this point.
The XMetal news item is curious. And more curious that the web site doesn't mention
it. I'll wait for official word. But this might be the beginning of the cynics
interpretation of the recent buyout of Corel.
Are we just having a garage sale?
Darrell
Feargal Hogan
Oops !!
I seem to have stirred a little hornets nest.
Can I confirm here and now that the intention of the original post was to provoke
discussion and exchange of opinion with the hope of bringing together a consensus
of opinion on whether such a sale was a good or bad thing.
Nowhere did I intend to imply that it was a bad decision. My mind is open on these
matters. I'm just not convinced yet that it will necessarily result positively for
all of Corel's stakeholders.
Can I also confirm that some people in Corel's offices DO read what is posted on
these NG's, contrary to popular belief.
Feargal
"Feargal Hogan" <fearg...@Spam.portinfo.co.uk> wrote in message
news:40223b9d$1_1@cnews...
Feargal Hogan
Eric
> I;m not sure whether the XMetaL sale itself is good or bad, but I think
> the fact that Corel is evaluating products for their fit into the
> company's mission is clearly a good thing. I also think it's a good
> thing that Corel is selling off assets that don't fit instead of just
> letting them fade away.
It is certainly the lesser of two evils. And if they get a good price, then who am
I to object.
But I am not necessarily with you on this being good for VP.
I fear it might just wither on the vine. And yet they are so close to major impact
with the product that it amazes me we are still on V10.
If I were in charge we would certainly have had V11 or SP1 at the very least by
now.
Feargal
Eric Weber
Feargal --
I;m not sure whether the XMetaL sale itself is good or bad, but I think
the fact that Corel is evaluating products for their fit into the
company's mission is clearly a good thing. I also think it's a good
thing that Corel is selling off assets that don't fit instead of just
letting them fade away.
-- Eric
Eric Weber
In article <40225A9A...@horizonhouse.com>, DJ
<Dj...@horizonhouse.com> says...
> I have been a user of VP since 1988. But, really let's face reality. Who would
> possibly buy it at this point.
Certainly none of the big players, but I think the buyers are out there
if Corel decides to sell.
> Are we just having a garage sale?
If the point is a garage sale, then why not sell Draw and WP? I think
the upcoming versions 12 of these products will answer a lot of
concerns in this area. Both will have Unicode support, and adding that
alone speaks volumes about whether Vector/Corel is looking at long-term
strategies or short-term strategies.
I've watched things inside Corel for years -- I have been very
impressed (and pleasantly surprised) with what I've seen of late in
terms of Corel's management, direction, focus, and approach.
It's easy to write it all off as a temporary blip, but many not so
visible, but fairly deep changes have taken place over the last few
months.
Them's my two cents.
Gabor Deak Jahn
On Thu, 5 Feb 2004 07:22:16 -0700, Eric Weber (C_TECH)
<ct...@corel.com> wrote:
Eric,
> mission? I think the answer is "yes." But even if it isn't, the XMetaL
> sale gives me more hope that Corel will sell Ventura to someone who
> continues to develop it.
XMetal was and remained a completely independent product. Ventura, on
the other hand, shares a lot of code with Draw (and, behind the
scenes, probably even more than what is apparent from the final
executables). That makes selling it quite improbable, I guess.
Bye,
Gabor
Gabor DEAK JAHN
Hungarian CVP Forum
www.tramontana.co.hu/ventura
(English entries at the bottom of the side menu)
* Act against TCPA before it's too late!
* http://www.againsttcpa.com/
John Reedman
I hope Veutura will continue to be developed.
We have used Ventura since the early 90's from 2.1 through to 10.
XML is one of our next development objectives in order to broaden the appeal
of our systems to those people who still use Quark and Macs - i.e. lots of
people
Within our team we use macs for our designer, and have worked with PageMaker
(PC & Mac), FrameMaker (PC) and also Quark v5.
Ventura has and still does provide better facilities to automate and page
finish large documents and as far as I know its table facilities outstrip
every other package.
How do users like us let Corel know what a fantastic piece of software they
have - even with it's faults.
Corel used to, and may still, run an annual competition to find the best
examples of work produced on their drawing packages.
Ventura is never mentioned and is becoming increasingly difficult to
source - why - there must be 100's of great examples of how Ventura provides
'best of breed' solutions to many DTP problems. But nobody ever finds out.
It is now so easy to select multiple image frames - e.g. all the 'pliars' on
a page and page finish/fit the content by adjusting the size of all frames
simultaneously so that they all retain a consistent size whilst getting the
page to fit. It's Fast, it works on a 256k machine, and it does not crash!
Our customers are buying Ventura because of the facilities it offers to get
big colour catalogues built quickly and easily
Hope you don't mind the vote of confidence.
John
============================================================================
=========
"Eric Weber (C_TECH)" <ct...@corel.com> wrote in message
news:MPG.1a8bff85a...@cnews.corel.com...
Eric Weber
In article <40225b4d_3@cnews>, Feargal Hogan
<fearg...@Spam.portinfo.co.uk> says...
> If I were in charge we would certainly have had V11 or SP1 at the very least by
> now.
Keep in mind that Corel was bought out by Vector in June 2003, and
everything went on hold in April 2003 during the negotiations.
The new owners are interested in making Corel profitable. So, the first
thing they did was shore up their flagship products, Draw and WP.
The next step is determining what to do with the remaining products and
that's where we're at right now.
While I agree with your assessment of where Ventura is at and would
love to see Ventura moving faster, it wasn't in the cards last year.
The fact that Corel bit off Unicode support in Draw and WP is very
encouraging because that means they now have the experience to tackle
it for Ventura if they decide to go somewhere with the product.
Although no decisions on Ventura have been announced, based on
conversations with Corel management, I think they understand the power
and unique nature of the product -- which is a good thing.
Eric Weber
In article <40226999...@cnews.corel.ca>, Gabor Deak Jahn
<d...@tramontana.co.hu> says...
> That makes selling it quite improbable, I guess.
Unless it is either a) spun off to a sibling company, or b) sold with
appropriate noncompete protections.
Feargal Hogan
> Although no decisions on Ventura have been announced, based on
> conversations with Corel management, I think they understand the power
> and unique nature of the product -- which is a good thing.
If that turns out to be true then maybe this could be the best of both worlds.
But I won't hold me breath ...
Eric Weber
In article <40226fbf_1@cnews>, Feargal Hogan
<fearg...@Spam.portinfo.co.uk> says...
> But I won't hold me breath ...
FWIW, I'm not holding mine either -- but recent interactions with Corel
have me at least considering it! ;-)
Eric Weber
In article <40226954$1_1@cnews>, John Reedman
<John.R...@Elanders.Co.UK> says...
> How do users like us let Corel know what a fantastic piece of software they
> have - even with it's faults.
Send your comments to:
Bran MacEachaidh
I can't disagree with either of you, Eric and Feargal. I think the original
post was fair enough, and frankly if the Corel people read something here
that they're unhappy about people saying -- well, it's a pity in one way,
because I'm definitely supportive of their efforts, but at least it would
serve as feedback regarding the impression that some people among we, the
great unwashed, are being left with by what's happened and the incredible
cone of silence that Corel maintains.
Along with many others, I hope that Corel's recent affirmation of commitment
to CDGS and WPO augurs well for the long-term viability of the company. And
I accept that the sell-off of XMetaL can at least be seen as a clearing of
the decks to focus on "core" products. But on the other hand, for how many
years now have we been seeing Corel acquire new technologies with great
fanfare, only to find itself unable to integrate them or even reconcile them
with its "core" business, and ultimately to sell them off (often to great
ridicule in the media) ? Well into the double-digits by now, I would think.
So why should we assume that the market, or even we Corel users, will see
this as anything other than a continuation of the same trend ?! Heck, even
over on the CDGS forums, there are still plenty of long-time DRAW (et al)
devotees who still assert very loudly that WordPerfect has no business in
Corel's line-up. So if WordPerfect should go, why shouldn't Ventura ?
I happen not to agree. I want Ventura to be one of the supported "core" and
on-going commitments. I'd dearly love to see a Ventura 12 by the end of
this year, perhaps preceded in the middle of the year by an SP for Ventura
10 that brings its file and graphics format filters up to date. WordPerfect
used to do that all the time -- provide updates in-between version releases
for file formats and import/export filters (and of course, until relatively
recently, new printer drivers) -- and it's just incredible what fierce user
loyalty it built. People felt *supported* -- something that I daresay
no-one has felt with any software developer for a very long time.
But I got a sinking feeling the other night when, after reading Feargal's
first post in this thread, I went to the Corel website and, from the main
page, dropped down the menu under the heading "Products". Not only are
there products in the Corel line-up that I've never, ever even *heard* of
before, I was shocked by what *doesn't* even appear on the Products list:
Ventura.
What does *that* say about Corel's commitment to VP ?
Bran
Abe Hendin
Eric Weber (C_TECH) wrote:
> Corel is faced with a
> similar decision about Ventura: Does it fit within the company's core
> mission? I think the answer is "yes."
I wonder whether this isn't *our* idea of what Ventura is--I think this
may be at odds with Corel's idea. Witness the fact that Ventura is
buried on the Corel site: not listed on the main Products menu droplist,
though that isn't very long (so they couldn't worry about making it too
long). You have to go to All Products, where it's listed under the
absolutely inspiring heading of "Office Productivity" Gimme a break! Why
is "Marketing" over there so oblivious??
--
Abe Hendin
http://www.yourspeed.com
Ventura scripts: http://www.yourspeed.com/vscripts.html
Ventura Automation Help: http://www.yourspeed.com/vscripthelp.html
Bran MacEachaidh
Thanks for the address, Eric. I've sent off my letter of praise and urging
! ;-)
Bran
"Eric Weber (C_TECH)" <ct...@corel.com> wrote in message
news:MPG.1a8c29817...@cnews.corel.com...
Eric Weber
To be honest, I don't think the current state of Ventura visibility
reflects Corel's current attitude about the product. Rather, it is just
a holdover status quo from before the takeover. Taking it as having any
deeper meaning would be a mistake.
Since the takeover, the company hasn't addressed the issue publicly in
any way for the reasons I've already mentioned.
Thus, using the current state of Ventura visibility to
project/guess/hypothesize where Corel stands on Ventura at this point
would be unlikely to provide an accurate picture.
Eric Weber
In article <402405fd_2@cnews>, Abe Hendin <ne...@yourforgetspeed.com>
says...
> From your thought to a press release, then! (and
> beyond that: a service pack!)
I second that!
Abe Hendin
Eric Weber (C_TECH) wrote:
> Thus, using the current state of Ventura visibility to
> project/guess/hypothesize where Corel stands on Ventura at this point
> would be unlikely to provide an accurate picture.
Mmmmm. An excellent point, Eric. The upshot is that we simply don't
know, once again. From your thought to a press release, then! (and
beyond that: a service pack!)
--