New Tinting Brushes
Matt McElligott
that overall I'm pretty disappointed with the new tinting brushes. They work
well enough for adding basic color, but they're still a poor substitute for
the old watercolors.
The biggest problem seems to be the issue of the paper grain. Repeated
applying the tinting brushes builds up the "ink" until, after enough time,
the grain has been completely covered over. In this respect they feel a lot
more like a translucent chalk than watercolor.
The old watercolor brushes (and the new ones, as well) don't do this. No
mater how many times you reapply a stroke the grain remains visible, and it
gives the illusion that the pigment is soaking into the paper.
Unfortunately, I've found the new watercolor brushes all but unusable for my
work. They're slow and build up much too quickly. (Try, for example, to put
down a thin, even wash of color across a large area of canvas and you
quickly realize the limitations of the new technology.) The tinting brushes
help a bit, but it's not the same. The closest I've been able to come to the
old effect is to use the tinting brushes and then play around with the
surface effects to bring some of the grain back.
I'm at a loss to understand why Corel/Procreate can't seem to see this. I've
been using Painter since version 3 and this is the first time I can recall
that major functionality has been REMOVED from a new version.
My request for Painter 8? Give us the old watercolor brushes back!
Matt
Jinny Brown
If you want Water Color and Paper texture over a large area starting out
with the Tinting brushes:
1. Use the Tinting brushes on the Canvas to create the basic painted
look that you want.
2. In the Layers section menu, choose Lift Canvas to Water Color Layer.
NOTE: In the following steps, the Water Color Variant and Paper you
choose, and additional setting adjustments you apply to each of them
will define the result.
3. Choose a Water Color Variant and make any additional setting
adjustments.
4. In the Papers section, choose a Paper and make any additional setting
adjustments.
5. In the Layers section menu, choose Wet Entire Water Color Layer, then
sit back and watch your Tinting brush paint turn into Water Color paint
with as much Paper texture as you want.
6. For some interesting effects, choose another Paper texture and again
Wet Entire Water Color Layer.
That's just a start and you can no doubt come up with some new ideas by
playing around with the technique.
By the way, you can do this with any of the Brush Categories' Variants..
not just the Tinting brushes.
Let us know if this works for you and I'd love to see what you do with
it.
Happy New Year! :o)
Jinny Brown
PixelAlley Links - Jin's Painter Classes
http://www.pixelalley.com/Painter-Module1-Class1/painter-classes-links-page.html
PixelAlley Sections:
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Visit us in the Painter Forum at In Depth Discussions:
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______________________________________
Matt McElligott
Thanks for the suggestion. You're right--this does create some interesting
watercolor effects.
I think you misunderstood my point, though. While it's possible to create
the "effect" of the old watercolor variants to some degree, what we've lost
is the "process", which is much more significant.
For example, with the steps you've described it's necessary to put the ink
on the canvas first, then lift it to a watercolor layer. Unfortunately, if
you want to work with layers above the process falls apart. In order to see
the canvas, it may be necessary to hide layers above, which sort of defeats
the purpose.Also, this really doesn't address the issue of the tinting
brushes building up in an unnatural way.
Believe me, I want this to work, and I've put in a lot of time trying to
make it work. I'm about to start a new book, and the sketches I pitched to
the publisher back in the spring used the old watercolor brushes. Unless I
can find a way to duplicate the old technique, I may have no choice but to
go back to Painter 6. This is progress?
The new brushes are certainly fascinating, and I love to watch them drip and
soak into the paper. But the fact remains that many of us rely on Painter
for our livelihoods. I can't imagine Adobe modifying a critical feature of
Photoshop this way. The publishing community would be up in arms!
Thanks for your suggestion, though. For all the work you do for this
newsgroup, Corel really should put you on the payroll!
Matt
Jinny Brown
Comments inserted below...
Matt McElligott wrote:
<SNIP>
> I think you misunderstood my point, though. While it's possible to create
> the "effect" of the old watercolor variants to some degree, what we've lost
> is the "process", which is much more significant.
No.. I understand the process is different, and not what we would like.
I don't think the process would be more important than the result,
though, *if* the work could be done in pretty much the same amount of
time *and* we were able to create the same effect. That, it seems, is
what we're not yet able to do.
> For example, with the steps you've described it's necessary to put the ink
> on the canvas first, then lift it to a watercolor layer. Unfortunately, if
> you want to work with layers above the process falls apart. In order to see
> the canvas, it may be necessary to hide layers above, which sort of defeats
> the purpose.
I should have suggested this before.. and didn't because I was thinking
about the painting needing to be on the Canvas so it could be lifted to
a Water Color Layer:
Can't you do the Tinting brush work on a Layer set to Gel Composite
Method so you can see the Layers below? In the sense that you can see
through the Layer to whatever is below it, it's like working on a Water
Color Layer except the paint isn't wet.. yet. When the Tinting brush
work is finished, drop the Layer to the Canvas, Lift Canvas to Water
Color Layer, and Wet Entire Water Color Layer. The wet Water Color Layer
is back in Gel Composite Method and at the top of the Layer stack again
and you can move it if you want.
Also, this really doesn't address the issue of the tinting
> brushes building up in an unnatural way.
If buildup is the problem, why not use the Old Watercolor variant? When
I move the Spacing slider all the way to the left, the ugly rings are
gone and it paints with no buildup at all. Slow as molasses in January
on my system.. but no buildup.
Or.. why not forget Water Colors or Tinting brushes for painting and use
one of the many other brushes that are more easily controlled.. then
drop, lift, and wet the Layer to turn it into Water Color?
> Believe me, I want this to work, and I've put in a lot of time trying to
> make it work. I'm about to start a new book, and the sketches I pitched to
> the publisher back in the spring used the old watercolor brushes. Unless I
> can find a way to duplicate the old technique, I may have no choice but to
> go back to Painter 6. This is progress?
I believe you and agree that it's hardly progress if we have to spend
twice or three times as long to do something the way we used to be able
to do it.. and that's after spending weeks or months trying to figure
out the method to use with the new tools.
It's been disappointing and frustrating for all of us, though I admit
that it's not as serious for me as it would be if my work depended on it
as is the case for you and others like you. Still, I would like to see
all of us able to make Painter dance for us and she's gotten old, fat,
and forgetful.. and still as cranky as ever.. bless her heart (which I
still believe is good).
> The new brushes are certainly fascinating, and I love to watch them drip and
> soak into the paper. But the fact remains that many of us rely on Painter
> for our livelihoods. I can't imagine Adobe modifying a critical feature of
> Photoshop this way. The publishing community would be up in arms!
>
> Thanks for your suggestion, though. For all the work you do for this
> newsgroup, Corel really should put you on the payroll!
Wouldn't that be nice! *LOL*
I guess the best we can do for now is keep both Painter 6 and 7 running
and take the best of each. Again.. easier said by me than done by you if
your whole work style is dependant on working the way we can in Painter
6.
Best wishes for your project, whichever version you use.
Jinny Brown
PixelAlley Links - Jin's Painter Classes
http://www.pixelalley.com/Painter-Module1-Class1/painter-classes-links-page.html
PixelAlley Sections:
http://www.pixelalley.com/pixelalley-sections-pages.html
Visit us in the Painter Forum at In Depth Discussions:
http://www.critical-depth.com/cgi-bin/idd/
______________________________________
<SNIP>
t labarbera
unusable for my work. They're slow and build up much too quickly.
Matt, have you tried adjusting both the feature slider higher and the
opacity loweer on the wc brushes? Also, adjust the contrast to a lower
percentage in the paper area...that helps me loads...
When you move the feature slider to the right (larger number), the
density of the brush is lightened...it also speeds up the brush...
Ohhh...one more thing...play with turning 'accurate diffusion' (under
'water') off and on...I find that sometimes it helps--if it's on, turn
it off and if it's off, turn it on...
Hope this helps...
Terrie