v7 - finally gave up
Jack E White
frustrated v7 users (mine was with watercolor cloning), he actually provided
the final "nail in the coffin" which caused me to exercise the 30 day return
option (three days before expiration).
After nearly 30 days of trying the product, I had the feeling that v7 was
rushed to market without sufficient quality control. John's comments (see
below) would be consistent with this as he farmed out the watercolor
function and that person who is not now unavailable because she is busy
writing a Wow book which, I suppose, will explain the watercolor specs. and
will be in great demand.
I will accept the expertise of Ms Pendarvis as a traditional watercolorist
but question the judgement of people who will crush one funtion for another,
rather than add functionality.
"As you may know, I hired Cher Pendarvis to produce the Watercolor Variants
for P7.
She, as a traditional watercolorist, is imminently more qualified than I to
answer watercolor media-specific questions. Of course, she is pretty busy
working on the Wow! book update, so her available time is compromised. I
would advise anyone wanting to tackle the new Watercolor Layer to get their
hands on a good introductory watercolor media technique book (and there are
_many_ of them out there). "
source: http://www.pixelalley.com/tutorials/jderry-guide-pdf-downloads.html
Dave
>
> "As you may know, I hired Cher Pendarvis to produce the Watercolor
Variants
> for P7.
> She, as a traditional watercolorist, is imminently more qualified than I
to
> answer watercolor media-specific questions. Of course, she is pretty busy
> working on the Wow! book update, so her available time is compromised. I
> would advise anyone wanting to tackle the new Watercolor Layer to get
their
> hands on a good introductory watercolor media technique book (and there
are
> _many_ of them out there). "
Wow how pathetic, these brushes act nothing like traditional watercolors.
For them to say a traditional watercolorist made them to purposely act this
way is just sickening.
Dave
Jinny Brown
I seriously doubt that Painter 7 was released with either Corel or the
Water Color brush designer thinking that these brushes didn't act like
traditional watercolors.
I think the gap here is in Corel's documentation and explanations of how
they work.. and how we can make them work for us. Corel is responsible
for this.. no one else. They own the product and have the option to
document it well or not.
We need help from Corel with this and the longer they delay giving it to
us the more it will hurt not only customer relations but the welfare of
Painter 7.
I hope Corel is reading this and whoever it is at Corel that is reading
this either has the good sense to make sure those in a position to act
constructively to solve it know what's going on.. or the person reading
it is, in face, in a position to act constructively to solve it.
Help, Corel! Please.. for everyone's sake.. and don't put the Water
Color brush designer in such an awkward position. It is unfair,
unreasonable, and unnecessary.
Thank you in advance, Corel,
Jinny Brown
http://www.pixelalley.com
_________________________
Dave
I must ask you question have you ever used traditional watercolors? Because
if you did you would surely realize these act nothing like them 75% of the
time. Can you get something that looks similar? Sometimes yes, sometimes no.
The thing is in Painter 6 you could get something that looked close even
easier with out the reduction in speed or even less intuitive feel. Other
then how nifty the animated part of the watercolors look when you are first
applying them there is not much to like with the new watercolor brushes, the
functionally is just not there.
Look at the way lots of the brush strokes look once they are doing there
animated blend or bleed, they look more like crayon or large chalk variants.
Will someone come up with substitute methods to getting some desired
effects? Maybe some, I am sure of that. But at what cost? Creativity!
Personally I am holding out thinking the less then desired effects I have
seen so far are bugs in the design and will be worked out, not just some
sort of limited documentation failing to show me how the product is supposed
to work.
Have a great day,
Dave
"Jinny Brown" <jinb...@mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:3B954864...@mindspring.com...
Jinny Brown
No need to be sorry.
I think you may have misunderstood my meaning. Again:
> > I seriously doubt that Painter 7 was released with either Corel or the
> > Water Color brush designer thinking that these brushes didn't act like
> > traditional watercolors.
Place the emphasis on "... thinking that these brushes didn't act like
traditional watercolors."
Key word: thinking
It seems that they did think that these brushes act like traditional
watercolors.. and, in fact, they have said so on several occasions.
What I am doing at this point, is trying ... along with the rest of
you.. to let Corel know that they either do not act like traditional
watercolors, or Corel is going to have to show us how to make them act
like traditional watercolors.
Though I wouldn't call myself a watercolorist, I do have enough
experience painting with watercolors to know that there are things
possible in traditional watercolors that so far do not seem possible
using Painter 7 Water Color brushes. Two that come to mind and are the
most asked for now:
Creating a pooling effect on the edges of a smooth watercolor stroke.
Blending with the equivalent of clear water and an almost dry brush and
not creating another color while doing so or leaving hard edges.
Both of the above can be done with traditional watercolors and are so
basic as not to require a skilled watercolorist to accomplish them.
You could be right thinking that what we're seeing is due to a bug or
bugs... or.. it could be that Corel has simply not done even a halfway
decent job of explaining the Water Color brushes and how they can be
used to simulate traditional watercolor brushes and techniques.
Or.. it could be both.
In either or both cases, Corel is responsible to provide what is
missing. Obviously, we users are willing to provide our time to learn
and practice.
I think it would be interesting and possibly fruitful if we could each
do some sample Water Color brush strokes with specific brushes set at
their default settings and whatever notes seem appropriate as to the
brush, paper texture, etc. and our system specs, then post them on our
own web pages and send the URL to this newsgroup. I'd be willing to set
up a links page (I don't have the server space to display the images) so
we can easily compare what each of us is seeing and Corel can also see
what we're seeing. Also, other users in the wider Painter Community
could take a look and see if what they're experiencing is the same or
similar.
I'd need you to give permission to include your name and e-mail address
so that Corel.. should they be interested enough to take the time.. can
write to you if they have further questions.
Anyone else have some good ideas?
Cricket
trees. When folks got it they complained that they couldn't make real pine
trees or firs or weeping willows. That the defaults were useless. That
nothing they tried worked and the documentation was a joke. How do you use
all those sliders. Corel, get a grip, and on and on. I mean, it all sounds
very familiar.
Well, you should see the beautiful trees turning up all over the 'net now
that Bryce5 has been out a couple of months. It took everyone a bit to get
a feel for it.
But, Corel does pay attention and reads these things...so I'm not brushing
your concerns off or anything. I just was struck by the comparison and
mention this as a personal note from my experience with the Bryce users.
Cricket
C_Tech Volunteer
"Jack E White" <okc...@home.com> wrote in message
news:3b950862$1_3@cnews...
Jack E White
Although I have never used any version of Bryce, I believe that you are very
sincere in your comments.
At this point, I am awaiting a fax from Corel w/ directions for the return
of Painter v7. My objective is fairly straightforward, i.e., I wish to
produce equal or superior results using v7 that I can produce using v6 using
a source image and the brush "Simple Water" with the color clone enabled.
If you would provide me your email address, I will send you a source image,
as well as an image produced in v6 and one produce in v7. We have until the
8th. If you are successful, I will not ship it back and will proclaim your
victory to the newsgroup with glee!
Matt Elligot produced what seemed to be a comparable substitute brush for v7
but, when increasing the brush size, it was not as good (this is not a
criticism of Matt as he acknowledged that it was not perfect).
Jack E (not annoyed in the least) White
okc...@home.com
Cricket" <ct...@corel.ca> wrote in message news:3b9626ac_2@cnews...
Cricket
That is very generous of you on many levels. My problem here is twofold (1)
time...I've got something coming up in a few hours that will probably even
preclude my participation here for a few days, and (2) to be perfectly frank
I'm not sure it can be done. I have spent time along with others in this
group trying to do just that. And there are others here who are much more
intimately involved with Painter on a daily basis than I am.
I know there's a lot for all of us to learn about these new brushes, but I
would hope there may be changes made down the line that will help us out.
You can return Painter and perhaps pick it up again at a later date when/if
it turns out we can also use our P6 brushes the way we were used to. Or you
can keep it and join the Great Hunt. <g>
Maybe someone else will be intrigued by your 'challenge' and take you up on
it. Sounds like a great idea, to me.
Cricket
C_Tech Volunteer
"Jack E White" <okc...@home.com> wrote in message news:3b9638cc_1@cnews...
Jack E White
Cricket, your response to the lead message of this thread, which I started,
was that our problems sounded a bit premature and shortsighted.
Rather than be annoyed, as you were expecting while you wrote the message, I
just decided to take you at your word and let you "put up or shut up"
Well, you decided against the "put up" option as you have "something coming
up in a few hours" and that you are not even sure that it can be done.
Perhaps might refrain from making such categorical analogies when you can't
back them up and stick to providing some help which for which users have
been begging.
Jack
ps It shouldn't have more than "a few hours" to help.
"Cricket" <ct...@corel.ca> wrote in message news:3b96584b_3@cnews...
Cricket
think I could accomplish it anyway and did say there are others more adept
than I at Painter. We do have our own styles and ways of working with our
programs and what someone else finds may or may not work for you. I think
Karen made a good point about the new brushes and how we should approach
them in general (and that goes along pretty much with my earlier message).
However, that may not work for you because you want specific results like
you got in Painter 6 to fit your style of working. How did you make the
adjustment between painter 5 and 6? or did you start with 6?
Having very limited time is not really a cop out since the time I do have
I've been spending bug hunting, etc., (which I think is for a good cause
<g>) and have had precious little time to do any artwork of my own lately.
Another solution for you (because I have a feeling you really would like to
keep painter 7) is to have both Painter 6 and 7 installed. Many people keep
several versions of programs around for situations such as this. If you have
the harddrive space, of course (I don't).
Cricket
C_Tech Volunteer
Jinny Brown
I am hoping that we'll find some answers. If you have any regarding the
continuing questions about how to make Painter 7 Water Color brushes do
some fairly basic things that are done with traditional watercolors,
please share them with us. I think most of us are willing to be shown
that these things are, in fact possible using Painter 7.. and willing to
work hard to find the answers ourselves.. which is what many of us are
doing pending any help from Corel.
Thanks in advance if you can help too,
Jinny Brown
http://www.pixelalley.com
_________________________
Cricket
brushes I like as is. I've also tried painting at a smaller size (to speed
things up a bit...I have a very slow machine) and then resampling larger and
wetting the layer. Works pretty good.
Cricket
C_Tech Volunteer
Jinny Brown
Yep, rewetting the Layer can be interesting. I tried it the other night
on something I'd painted earlier but this time a different brush was
selected. The edges of the painting began to take on a wet fringe. I
undid that and tried again with another brush and the edges took on that
brush's characteristics.
That's all I had time to do but plan to experiment with this some more.
Jinny Brown
http://www.pixelalley.com
_________________________