beating color mixing to death
Chris
on color mixing and won't license it's use. Two days ago I downloaded Deep
Paint. I think the cost of the full 2D package is $250.00. Know what?
Deep Paint mixes colors just fine right out of the box. It's done with a
slider called, appropriatley enough, "mixing".
Blue and yellow make green. Blue and red make a dark color - if you add
white it becomes purple, just like with real oil paints. Red and whie make
pink - you name it. It's quite realistic.
I plan on sticking with Painter becuase Deep Paint doesn't have many of
the features I need, but I will be formally writing to Corel asking them to
include an implementation of this feature. I think Painter is a fantastic
application and I love it, but since Painter was billed as a "natural media"
application, I suggest more folks submit the same request. I think we're
entitled to a free upgrade that includes this feature since it was implied
in the product hype.
I never really believed this patent thing, and I seem to have found
proof. You can download the free demo yourself from
http://www.righthemisphere.com and see if what I am saying is true. Pick a
"flat acrylic" brush - turn it's strength down to 50% and the mixing up to
90% or so.
Chris
cliff
--
Cliff
"Chris" <fro...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:3c3506cc_2@cnews...
Chris
> I don't recall Corel 'claiming' any such thing...
In a previous thread, a poster informed me that this was Corel's position.
The thread has mysteriously disappeared from my newsreader.
Chris
Karen Sperling
Hedges and John Derry, are the ones who have said that Quantel has the
patent on color mixing.
Technically they're not Corel, they're not on staff.
My opinions only, no direct input from them or Corel.
--
Karen Sperling
Editor/Publisher
Artistry Painter Tutorial CD's
http://www.artistrymag.com
----------
MD
not sure but just took the post as truthful from whomever stated the fact. I
gave another similar example where a certain company (interactive pictures,
now MGI) was infringing upon a certain fisheye lens image stitching software
patent issue of IPIX.
It took a while but ipix had MGI remove the option from all future versions
and was awarded over 1 million in damages. The only version that allows
fisheye lens image stitching is their 1.0 version which is a couple years
old now. All new versions do not have the option whatsoever. They also went
after Easypano's panoweaver and Ptools, but they are not located in the
states so it is harder for them to enforce the patent in these other areas.
They were able to stop the option in Ptools for now though. Panoweaver is
the only product that has this feature except ipix software. Panoweaver is
based in Asia somewhere secret that I don't even know about.
Hopefully what deep paint is doing in its color mixing is legal. Otherwise
Quantex just might not be aware of deep paint and this is why the feature
still exists in recent versions.
Maybe best to keep deep paint a secret? Or at least until Corel gets the
same option in Painter later on when it becomes legal for them to do so.
This suing stuff seems to happen a lot nowadays. The option might be removed
by force from deep paint if Quantex finds out about it. Don't underestimate
this stuff happening, it does happen as stupid as it may be.
"Chris" <fro...@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:3c3506cc_2@cnews...
Chris
> same option in Painter later on when it becomes legal for them to do so.
Deep Paint is pretty big - the 3D version integrates with 3DS MAX and is
very well known amongst 3D artists. It's also been around for a while. I'd
be surprised if Quantex wasn't aware of it.
I still suspect some confusion on someone's part because Painter *does* mix
colors, just not very well out of the box. I said in a previous thread that
I managed to make some brushes that mix well, and behave *very* much like
oil paint. Since buying Deep Paint I have tweaked my Painter brushes more
and now they mix almost as well as Deep Paint except the colors become
slightly washed out - but only a bit. Painter mixing is working well for
me, and since it's there, I get back to my original position that Corel
should include the ability for this to happen right out of the box without
the need for hours and hours of brush designing. It's there and it works,
so I don't understand why anyone would say it's not allowed. I just
originally said Corel should include those custom brushes and maybe tweak
the software a bit.
For those interested in Deep Paint - it's too anemic to ever be a
replacement for Painter. The only thing it does better than Painter is
mixing - it's brushes aren't as robust, although they are better than
Photoshop's or Corel Photo-Paint's, and it's shapes and paths are almost
non-existent. The 2D version acts as a plugin for Photoshop or as a stand
alone app. I was easily able to trick it into being a Painter plugin - heh
heh. My style of painting usually involves hard edges rather than mixed
colors, so I don't use it often, but it's nice to have the option available.
During the install DP will say it can't find your Photoshop plugin directory
and gives the option to tell it where the directory is. Just steer it to
the Painter plugin directory et voila!
If anyone is considering using it, bag the demo from Right Hemisphere. To u
se it, I had to set my computer's clock back to 1998. It only allows you to
import one layer, edit it then send it back. Try it before forking over
$240.00. The retail version doesn't make you set your clock back, by the
way. I'm happy with it, and it has expanded my Painter capabilities a bit.
Chris
Karen Sperling
patented.
But here's my understanding of what is patented.
It's not the color mixing that is patented by Quantel. It's having a color
palette that lets you mix colors onscreen as if you were holding a palette
in front of an easel and mixing paints with brushes as in real life.
Now if I think about it, there's nothing stopping you from creating an image
or even a layer separate from your main image, mixing color there like an
electronic palette and when you get the color you want, adding it to your
image.
I personally never saw the need for this. I can get a green in the color
palette without having to mix yellow and blue in an electronic palette. But
maybe this is something you are interested in doing as someone coming to the
computer from traditional art.
----------
Jinny Brown
Would you care to share your method of setting up color mixing in
Painter?
Happy New Year,
Jinny Brown
PixelAlley Links - Jin's Painter Classes
see http://www.pixelalley.com
or the PixelAlley Section Links Page at:
http://www.pixelalley.com/pixelalley-sections-pages.html
Visit us in the Painter Forum at In Depth Discussions:
http://www.critical-depth.com/cgi-bin/idd/
______________________________________
cliff
Draw/PhotoPaint had but have since removed. Coincidental or
no, it was v7, I believe, which corresponded to the
Photoshop 3.x/4.x era.
It was really nice, too. You could dab x number of colors,
then simply 'mix' them, eyedrop the variants to make them
the paint/fill colors, and off you went...
But I can see what you mean by having no need for such,
Karen. I think it's for those who prefer to visualize their
color creating, over against keying in numeric values or
relying on named values.
v10 of Corel Draw has a feature that Painter folks might
appreciate and is along the lines of mixing : when a person
selects a named color, he/she can ctrl-click (cmd-click) on
other named colors to add a percentage of that color with
each click. (Perhaps it's Corel's way of getting around the
issue of no color mixing apparatus.)
Cliff
"Karen Sperling" :
Jinny Brown
Well.. if you violated any rules, so did I. I make a firm practice never
to open attachments and recently I said that to a friend who wanted to
send me some custom brush variants to upload to my site. Now I feel
really guilty because curiosity got the better of me and I saved your
files to my hard drive.. isolated them and ran them through my virus
scanner.
Now I can be called both paranoid and a two-faced stinker. <g> My friend
got her files up on her own newly revised and nice looking site anyway..
in spite of me.. and I suppose she might forgive me if I beg... or maybe
not.
Anyway.. back to the brush... It's a nice one.. I like the fine-haired
brushy brush stroke tip and with a little practice, I got it to blend
fairly naturally. I especially like the way the blended/new color can be
dragged out onto the Canvas and over other colors. It's very much like
Paulo's famous "Real Watercolor Brush" as the RWB is set up so the
opacity fades to invisible but as long as you don't lift the brush it
can be used for blending. Unfortunately, Painter 7 changes it so much
it's not the same thing at all. It's lovely in Painter 6, though.
It would be great if you'd like to share your brush at In Depth
Discussions' Painter Forum. Everyone there is into creating and sharing
Painter brushes and we've had a great time with them. They're either in
the message threads as "brush recipes" or links to .XML files.. or in
the Freebies Forum. Some are also on my site with demo images, available
to download.. those are only Painter 7 Custom Brush Variants though..
since we were all struggling with the new Water Colors so much. You're
welcome to any that you find interesting or useful either at IDD or on
my site.. or both.
The In Depth Discussions URL is below my signature.
Thanks for sharing your brush! :o)
Jinny Brown
PixelAlley Links - Jin's Painter Classes
see http://www.pixelalley.com
or the PixelAlley Section Links Page at:
http://www.pixelalley.com/pixelalley-sections-pages.html
Visit us in the Painter Forum at In Depth Discussions:
http://www.critical-depth.com/cgi-bin/idd/
______________________________________
Chris wrote:
>
> > Would you care to share your method of setting up color mixing in
> > Painter?
> >
>
> Sure - it's no big deal. I hope I didn't inadvertantly hype this up.
> From the time I bought the package to the time I figured out how to do this
> was 2 weeks. This is just something I wish was included out of the box. As
> someone else brilliantly put it - Painter is like ordering a sweater and
> getting yarn and knitting needles and no instructions. We should have just
> been given brushes and paints that act like real brushes and paints.
>
> What I have attached is this (I hope I'm not violating any TOS by attaching
> files):
>
> 1. oilsim.jpg - shows the results. The blending is achieved without using
> a separate blending tool; it's all done with the brush. The long stroke
> shows the dryout. I think traditional artists will feel that the brush
> handles pretty much like a round heavy nylon using 20% thinned oil paint.
> It can be seen that red and blue make good purples, red and yellow good
> oranges, yellow and cyan make an okay green, but a darker blue just makes
> gray. The red and white mix like a cadmium red light with white. Using
> variants of the brush, I pretty much feel like I'm painting with oils,
> except I can erase when I screw up, which is all the time :)
>
> 2. nylon oil.jpg and nylon oil.xml - the brush files. You'll notice the
> .jpg is just the sponge that comes with Painter. I found it works great at
> giving a brsitley real-brush look, especially at 150 DPI or more (which the
> sample jpg isnt :) ).
<SNIP>
Chris
> It would be great if you'd like to share your brush at In Depth
> Discussions' Painter Forum. Everyone there is into creating and sharing
> Painter brushes and we've had a great time with them.
In a short time I'll post my entire collection. I'm fine-tuning it as I
paint. It's got oil and acrylic flats, rounds, worn brushes (I get great
effects with worn brushes in real life), filberts - the works. The total
size of the collection is under 1 MB, so it's not huge.
Chris
Jinny Brown
That'll be great! Please upload them to your website and post a link to
the files. It'll make it easier that way for everyone. I hope you'll
post the link at IDD both in the Painter Forum and in the Freebies
Forum. A lot of people know that we do a lot of work with Painter's
brushes and have a pretty good collection going, though we sometimes
have to hunt through the message threads to find them. <g>
Very generous of you. Thanks a lot. :o)
Jinny Brown
PixelAlley Links - Jin's Painter Classes
see http://www.pixelalley.com
or the PixelAlley Section Links Page at:
http://www.pixelalley.com/pixelalley-sections-pages.html
Visit us in the Painter Forum at In Depth Discussions:
http://www.critical-depth.com/cgi-bin/idd/
______________________________________
Chris
Chris
"Jinny Brown" <jinb...@mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:3C3AA22D...@mindspring.com...
Jinny Brown
Thank you so much! I'm sure Painter users will enjoy them.