Eastern Sierra Field Trip

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Georges Pelpel

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Sep 21, 2011, 9:24:17 PM9/21/11
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Hi CCCC Members,

It's time again to think about the Eastern Sierra Fall field trip.
We are a bit early to forecast the exact peak time of the fall colors but I would like to propose 2 possible weekends. Let me know which one you prefer.
Some websites are reporting that the trees are starting to turn colors, most in lime green at this time at the higher elevations.
I am also suggesting some areas to visit, trying to offer new places compared to last year. Please feel free to add suggestions and chime in your preferences.

The dates I am proposing are either the weekend of October 7-9, or the next weekend October 14-16.

The first weekend could be early for the peak colors but is just a few days before the full moon which occurs on the 11th. This should offer a nice opportunity to have a close to full moon in the background at places such as Mono Lake. We could also have the trip from Saturday to Monday instead of Friday to Sunday to be a day closer to the 11th.


Here are some suggestions:

Native American Petroglyphs (20 mn drive from Bishop): I finally got the name and overall location of the large rock facing the sky that Galen Rowell photographed. It's called Sky Rock and is located in Chalk Bluff area, not the Chalfant area I had scooted before. Some dirt road to ride on but easily accessible with passenger cars.

Bristlecone Pine Forest in the White Mountains (1 hour drive from Bishop): Site of the oldest living trees on earth, nice view of the Sierra across the Owens Valley. Could be there either for sunrise or for sunset. The paved road goes to the Shulmann Grove from which we can hike several trails. The Methuselah trail is longer but relatively flat, the trail above the parking lot is short but a bit steeper. For the more adventurous there's a 13 mile gravel road that reaches the Patriarch Grove (best at sunset) that can be driven with regular cars.

Bishop Creek (30mn drive from Bishop): Fall colors, lakes, creek. We visited North Lake last year we could try South Lake and Lake Sabrina as well. If the colors are nice along the creek there are many nice spots along the road to stop.

Rock Creek (45mn north of Bishop): Falls colors and mountain scenery. Bob and I drove there last year but most of the trees were bare. Could be good this year. I was impressed by the mountain peaks in the background, it's a very nice location.

June Lake Loop (20mn south of Mono Lake): Falls colors, lakes, fishermen, waterfall. a classic if the timing is good.

Mono Lake: We had a crappy sky last year, so we may have better luck this year. We could have a moonrise in the late afternoon if we go on the weekend of the 7-9. Otherwise always a nice sunrise shoot.

Lundy Canyon: Fall colors, beaver ponds, waterfall. Easy drive to the ponds and the trees, quite a hike for the waterfall.


Please sent your feedback and let me know who is planning to join.

Georges

Barbara Fredericks

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Sep 21, 2011, 11:14:17 PM9/21/11
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If I can get out of my duties with the cub scout pack, I'd love to go the weekend of October 7-9.
Barb

Barbara Fredericks
CCCC Nature & Creative Image Chair
bfr...@mac.com

Helen Sweet

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Sep 21, 2011, 11:38:47 PM9/21/11
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Georges, this sounds terrific!  Oct 9 doesn't work for us.  But  could go the 8th to the 10th or the following weekend.  Am glad to have more notice this time, b/c if it's the 15th, I'll need to exchange ACT tix.
Helen

--- On Wed, 9/21/11, Georges Pelpel <gpe...@comcast.net> wrote:

Ernie Glover

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Sep 22, 2011, 12:04:23 AM9/22/11
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I, me, this one, ek, whena, אני,ich, j'ai want's to go. I might have something on that weekend, but think that it might work out. I need more info though. Camping or hotel, where etc. But I know you will let us all know soon.
Looking forward to it.

Thank you.

--
Ernie

Georges Pelpel

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Sep 22, 2011, 11:01:20 AM9/22/11
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Hi Ernie,

Both hotel and camping will be available.

Myself, I will camp.

More info soon.

Georges

Barrie Bieler

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Sep 22, 2011, 12:36:30 PM9/22/11
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Georges - - I would be interested in joining this trip.  Would prefer the Oct. 7-9 weekend because I would prefer aspens yellow with some green rather than yellow with some bare trees. At my age of 82 I would like to ride with someone rather than drive my own car.  Barrie Bieler.

On Wed, Sep 21, 2011 at 6:24 PM, Georges Pelpel <gpe...@comcast.net> wrote:

Stanley Sizeler

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Sep 22, 2011, 1:43:48 PM9/22/11
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Do you plan to camp in Bishop or Lee Vining or ??

Stan

Georges Pelpel

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Sep 22, 2011, 2:10:00 PM9/22/11
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Exact itinerary is not defined yet but Bishop will surely be one of the main accommodation center, the Lee Vining/June Lake/Mammoth Lake area being the second one.

Most will be in hotels a few will be camping including myself.

Around Bishop public campsites are available in the Bishop Creek area as well as near the Bristlecone Pine Forest area. There's also a private campground just south of town with showers.
A campsite I use most years is near June Lake, it is a bit more expensive because private but has hot showers. Otherwise there are several public campground along June Lake Loop.
There's a private campground in Lee Vining with showers as well and public ones outside town up highway 120.

Patricia Prettie

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Sep 22, 2011, 3:56:09 PM9/22/11
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Hi Barrie,
If no lone driver wants to take you, Bill and I can. We would like to go as well, but it will depend on Bill’s on call status the week we leave. He doesn’t know yet what week he is doing on call in October.
Pat
 
Sent: Thursday, September 22, 2011 9:36 AM
Subject: Re: Eastern Sierra Field Trip
 

Bilha Sperling

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Sep 22, 2011, 6:11:04 PM9/22/11
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HI GEORGES,
I WILL BE AWAY OCT.7-9
ARE YOU PLANING TO GO 14-16 AS WELL ?

Subject: Re: Eastern Sierra Field Trip
Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2011 08:01:20 -0700
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Georges Pelpel

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Sep 22, 2011, 6:14:48 PM9/22/11
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Hi Bilha,
Will be one of the 2 weekends depending on fall color timing and member availability.
Georges

Bilha Sperling

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Sep 22, 2011, 6:19:28 PM9/22/11
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THANKS
22-23 IS ALSO O K.
BILHA



From: gpe...@comcast.net
Subject: Re: Eastern Sierra Field Trip
Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2011 15:14:48 -0700
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Ernie Glover

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Sep 23, 2011, 1:33:33 AM9/23/11
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If anybody out there has a open spot in their vehicle, I would like to carpool. Georges, if you gonna camp, I would also prefer camping, mind sending info about your usual camp site?



2011/9/22 Bilha Sperling <gob...@hotmail.com>



--
Ernie

go

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Sep 23, 2011, 1:43:42 AM9/23/11
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Can u also send me info re campsite just in case i can make it.
Thx. 

Gordana
Sent from my iPhone

Georges Pelpel

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Sep 23, 2011, 1:48:46 AM9/23/11
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We will organize carpool a week before the trip once we have all the pieces in place.
We will try to have campers together in the same vehicles.

There are many campgrounds available with no need for reservation at this time of the year. Some are private with hot showers (Bishop, June Lake, Lee Vining), others are public and closer to the shooting location. 

We will have at least one night in a private camp, most probably June Lake because it's far from the road along a lake and quiet. Bishop and Lee Vining are along the main road. Bishop is ok, I spent a night there last year before a bike ride, some site are farther from the road so the noise didn't bother me. I never tried Lee Vining, too close to the road for my taste.

There are several very quiet public campground along Bishop Creek, high in the mountains and very close to North, South, and Sabrina lakes. There's also a campground high in the White Mountains only a couple of miles from the Bristlecone Pine Forest. All of these save some driving in the early morning.

Bilha Sperling

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Sep 23, 2011, 1:38:27 PM9/23/11
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DO WE HAVE A SET DATE  ?
BILHA


From: gpe...@comcast.net
Subject: Re: Eastern Sierra Field Trip
Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2011 22:48:46 -0700
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e.s.blanco

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Sep 23, 2011, 2:08:35 PM9/23/11
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Definitely cannot make it on Oct 7 time frame. Would like to (& need to) know when the group plans to depart to Eastern Sierra -- is it drive there on Thu 13th & drive back on Mon 17th? Since I have never done this, I would like to go to all photo ops with the majority, when feasible.

Barry / Ernie --
You are welcome to ride with me. I don't camp out & will not mind shuttling you (Ernie) to your camp. Hopefully reasonably priced hotel rooms are still available once plans are all finalized.

Thanks!!
Emilio

STEPHEN BUSCH

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Sep 25, 2011, 10:13:54 PM9/25/11
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Jane and I might be able to make it Oct. 8 and 9th.  We are going to Mexico the following weekend for family wedding.  We would probably stay in motel.  Stephen Busch


From: Georges Pelpel <gpe...@comcast.net>
To: contra...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Thursday, September 22, 2011 11:10 AM

Georges Pelpel

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Oct 3, 2011, 3:38:35 AM10/3/11
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Hi All,

Sorry for the long delay in providing information about the trip, I have been following fall color reports for the last couple of weeks and it turned out Mother Nature is a bit late this year.
Thankfully things are starting to change quite rapidly with some higher elevations about to peak.
As most of the lower and easier to access locations are still greenish I have decided on the weekend of the October 14 to 16 for our Eastern Sierra field trip.

Here is a proposed itinerary with some variations compared to last year.

- Leave the Bay Area on Friday 14 early.

- Arrive in Bishop in the afternoon (6 hour drive), settle in hotels/campground, get food and gas, and head to the Bristlecone Pine Mountain (1 hour away) for the end of the afternoon. This is a nice location offering plenty of photographic opportunities (old trees, weathered wood patterns, landscape). We will enjoy the sunset and stay into the dark to play with star trails. The stalky silhouettes of the bristlecone pines work very well as foreground to the heavens. Also bring flash heads and flashlights to add some zing to your shots and do not forget your extra batteries. As these take a while we will have a tailgate dinner on site, bring goodies to share, wine is welcomed.

They are several locations at the pine reserve; Discovery Trail (1 mile) and Bristlecone Cabin Trail (2 miles) are right off the parking lot, Discovery being an easy hike. We also have the option to drive the 12 miles gravel road to Patriarch Grove where trees can easily be hiked to.

- When going back to Bishop to spend the night I will probably head to Sky Rock for more star trail shooting. I do not include this site on the main menu as the hiking can be a bit tough for some. It's not a long hike, 300 yards of so, but the start is a short climb up a ridge. The location also requires climbing on some rocks at the end of the trail.

Sky Rock is a 15' wide rock where ancient natives drew some petroglyphs. They are several easier to access samples close by by this one is really awesome. I was able to precisely locate where the rock is (nobody wants to share it), I think it's worth a hike. It's not possible to bring a large group to the place for a sunrise or sunset shot because of the limited space but for star trails we can probably accommodate more people as we won't be in a hurry. It will be late but the more adventurous of us could have fun there.

- Saturday morning we will head to Bishop Creek along some lake and the creek depending where the best foliage is. During the day ww will go up highway 395 and stop either at Rock Creek, Mammoth, or June Lake depending of the tree color status. We can have a sunset shoot at Mono Lake and have dinner at the Mono Inn or in June Lake. Hotels and camping are available in June Lake or Mammoth 20 minutes away.

- Sunday morning will be at Mono Lake and later at Lundy Canyon after a brunch and before heading back home.

I am opened to suggestions, let me know.

Hope you can make it. We will start organizing car pooling for those who need a ride.

Georges

e.s.blanco

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Oct 3, 2011, 12:25:00 PM10/3/11
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Hello,

Something came up for the 14th & thus I cannot make it on this fun trip.

Emilio

Patricia Prettie

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Oct 3, 2011, 12:36:10 PM10/3/11
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Since Bill will be on call, I will need a ride or company in my car. Who is
going that weekend besides me? I'm not going to camp, and probably not going
to hike up the hill with Georges, (depends on how steep it is), so any other
non-adventurous photographers going alone?
Pat

-----Original Message-----
From: Georges Pelpel
Sent: Monday, October 03, 2011 12:38 AM
To: contra...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Eastern Sierra Field Trip

Barbara Fredericks

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Oct 3, 2011, 12:49:11 PM10/3/11
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I can't do this weekend. I can't wait to see your images. Enjoy!
Barb

Sent from my iPad

On Oct 3, 2011, at 12:38 AM, Georges Pelpel <gpe...@comcast.net> wrote:

> Hi All,
>
> Sorry for the long delay in providing information about the trip, I have been following fall color reports for the last couple of weeks and it turned out Mother Nature is a bit late this year.
> Thankfully things are starting to change quite rapidly with some higher elevations about to peak.

> As most of the lower and easier to access locations are still greenish I have decidedon the weekend of the October 14 to 16 for our Eastern Sierra field trip.

Jane Postiglione

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Oct 3, 2011, 3:50:56 PM10/3/11
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Hi Pat

 

I was hoping the Fall color would cooperate for this coming weekend. Unfortunately Stephen and I will be shooting a relative's wedding that same weekend. I guess we'll have to go next time.

 

Question: Are you around tomorrow during the morning and early afternoon? I need help with selections and layers for a homework project. I am taking an intermediate Photoshop class at Ohlone (mainly for the student software discount ) and although I like the instructor, he spent two seconds on these topics which is the other main reason I took the class. I just don't get layers and masks....duh.

 

Would you be up for a morning teaching session at your house. I have the images am trying to combine. Let me know. If not I can stay late at class to get help.

 

Jane




From: "Patricia Prettie" <pretty...@comcast.net>
To: contra...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Monday, October 3, 2011 9:36:10 AM

Subject: Re: Eastern Sierra Field Trip

Barbara Fredericks

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Oct 3, 2011, 4:58:07 PM10/3/11
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Adobe's Lightroom 3 is on sale right now for the next 24 hours only!!  The regular price is $299, and you can get it right now for 50% OFF, or $149.

This is a great deal, so when I got the email this morning I wanted to let everyone know about it.  Check it out at http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/buy/AD125794/Ntt/AD125794/N/0

Cheers!

Bill Stone

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Oct 3, 2011, 6:10:20 PM10/3/11
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Termites tend to swarm on the sunny day after the first good autumn
rain. So be on the lookout the next couple of days.

Barbara

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Oct 3, 2011, 6:53:17 PM10/3/11
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Cool!

Sent via iPhone

Patricia Prettie

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Oct 3, 2011, 7:00:11 PM10/3/11
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How do you keep them out of your house if you see them?

Barbara Fredericks

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Oct 3, 2011, 7:10:24 PM10/3/11
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I've heard ants will eat termites.
B

Barbara Fredericks
CCCC Nature & Creative Image Chair
bfr...@mac.com

Bill Stone

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Oct 3, 2011, 7:19:14 PM10/3/11
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These will be damp wood termites, so if your house is dry they generally
won't bother you, although they will sometimes build mud tunnels. They
generally live in stumps, roots, firewood, landscaping wood, fence posts
etc. If you see them coming up near your foundation or somewhere on your
house it's time to call an exterminator. A lot of times insect eating
birds will pick them out of the air or as they are coming out.
Termites-Emerge-for-Mating-Flight~Bill-Stone.jpg

Bill Stone

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Oct 3, 2011, 7:32:11 PM10/3/11
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Sometimes. It's suppose to be a good sign when you have the small
Argentine ants, they are suppose to go after the pupae and eggs. But of
course I don't want them in my house either.

On 10/3/11 4:10 PM, Barbara Fredericks wrote:
> I've heard ants will eat termites.
> B
>
> Barbara Fredericks

> CCCC Nature& Creative Image Chair

Patricia Prettie

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Oct 3, 2011, 7:40:03 PM10/3/11
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Could be a good nature shot :>)

Patricia Prettie

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Oct 3, 2011, 7:41:33 PM10/3/11
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Cool picture.

-----Original Message-----
From: Bill Stone

Sent: Monday, October 03, 2011 4:19 PM
To: contra...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Photographing termites

kathleen whiteman

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Oct 3, 2011, 8:26:37 PM10/3/11
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Don't trout eat some kind of fly that hatches from under rocks in a stream?  I wonder if its like a termite?

bstone

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Oct 3, 2011, 9:22:56 PM10/3/11
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You might mean caddisfly. The larva makes a covering using
small rocks and pieces of vegetation.

kathleen whiteman

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Oct 3, 2011, 9:44:53 PM10/3/11
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That sounds right!  They flutter around like termites do too.

Georges Pelpel

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Oct 3, 2011, 11:36:26 PM10/3/11
to contra...@googlegroups.com, John Morrow, Helen & Rodney Sweet, Morris Johnson, Roberta Brooks, Barbara Fredericks-Place, Virginie Pelpel, Clo Leraul, Karl Lehmann, Barry Grivett, Mike Luebke, Carol Trammell, Bob Rogers, Mike + Eric Felder, Bill & Kalynda Stone, San Yuan, Raymond Wu, Ron Fletcher, Emilio Blanco, Marilyn Cunningham, Joe Hearst, Robert Wehrmeister, Richard Smithberg, Bob Watters, Bill Rauch, Robert Beall, Joan Beall, Alan Gould, Stephen Busch, Gisela Calkins, Rose Bower, Ojars Kratins, Barry Hart, Barrie Bieler, Stanley Sizeler, Doug Butler, Stephen, Julie Weiss, Leslie Crandell, Tim Szumowski, Jane Postiglione, Sherry Mullin, Bilha Sperling, Ernie Glover, Selden Parmelee, Meng + Linda Horng, Polly Boissevain, Kathleen Whiteman, Dick Stahlke, Boris Dmitruk, Ken Brockmann, Donita Hohenstein, Larry Porter, Joan & George Field, Bill Chambard, Laura Macdonald, Randy Hake, Pat Prettie, Jorge Brown, Sherry Grivett, Janet Reinstra, Tim Christoffersen
In my email yesterday I mentioned about trying some star trail photography.

Attached are some articles about it with excellent tips. We won't do 2 hour shots or longer, I would say that most of us will do 10 to 30 exposures.

What equipment to bring:

- a solid tripod,
- any lens, wide angles are more versatile though especially if you want a foreground in focus.
- a remote shutter release (corded or not) that allows you to lock your shutter open in bulb mode. can be manual (cheap) or electronic.
- a flash head or good flashlight to illuminate foreground object such as trees or rocks.
- a second body and tripod if you have them so you can record two captures at the same time.

Let me know asap if you are planning to join us.

I am hoping the coming storm will keep the passes open. Close to a foot of snow is expected on top of the Sierra but the forecast looks great after Friday so the CalTrans will have a week to clear the passes.

Georges


http://www.danheller.com/star-trails.html
http://www.photographymad.com/pages/view/long-exposure-star-trail-photography
http://www.picturecorrect.com/tips/star-trail-photography-tips/

kathleen whiteman

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Oct 5, 2011, 7:43:41 PM10/5/11
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Georges - Is there any possibility of changing the White Mtn. excursion to Saturday without messing up the rest of the trip?
 
There is a chance that I won't get to Bishop before saturday and I really want to do the White Mtn. portion.
 
Kathleen

Selden Parmelee Selden

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Oct 5, 2011, 7:50:46 PM10/5/11
to Georges Pelpel, contra...@googlegroups.com, John Morrow, Helen & Rodney Sweet, Morris Johnson, Roberta Brooks, Barbara Fredericks-Place, Virginie Pelpel, Clo Leraul, Karl Lehmann, Barry Grivett, Mike Luebke, Carol Trammell, Bob Rogers, Mike + Eric Felder, Bill & Kalynda Stone, San Yuan, Raymond Wu, Ron Fletcher, Emilio Blanco, Marilyn Cunningham, Joe Hearst, Robert Wehrmeister, Richard Smithberg, Bob Watters, Bill Rauch, Robert Beall, Joan Beall, Alan Gould, Stephen Busch, Gisela Calkins, Rose Bower, Ojars Kratins, Barry Hart, Barrie Bieler, Stanley Sizeler, Doug Butler, Stephen, Julie Weiss, Leslie Crandell, Tim Szumowski, Jane Postiglione, Sherry Mullin, Bilha Sperling, Ernie Glover, Meng + Linda Horng, Polly Boissevain, Kathleen Whiteman, Dick Stahlke, Boris Dmitruk, Ken Brockmann, Donita Hohenstein, Larry Porter, Joan & George Field, Bill Chambard, Laura Macdonald, Randy Hake, Pat Prettie, Jorge Brown, Sherry Grivett, Janet Reinstra, Tim Christoffersen
I'm not going to be able to make it because I'm heading north, on a road trip .


does anyone happen to have any PDF photo guides ( recommendations ) for

Yellowstone . glacier National park , Banff , British Columbia , Vancouver ?

selden

Georges Pelpel

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Oct 6, 2011, 4:42:22 PM10/6/11
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Hi Kathleen,

I thought about how we could organize the trip a bit differently but haven't found any working solutions so far.

Georges

kathleen whiteman

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Oct 6, 2011, 5:21:42 PM10/6/11
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Hi Georges -   I thought you probably had some good reasons for planning things that way.  Thanks for considering the idea anyway!  Kathleen

Georges Pelpel

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Oct 7, 2011, 8:06:01 PM10/7/11
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Hi Bilha,

Are you joining us next week weekend?

Georges

Georges Pelpel

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Oct 10, 2011, 12:12:44 AM10/10/11
to contra...@googlegroups.com, John Morrow, Helen & Rodney Sweet, Morris Johnson, Clo Leraul, Barbara Fredericks-Place, Virginie Pelpel, Roberta Brooks, Karl Lehmann, Joe Hearst, Barry Grivett, Carol Trammell, Mike + Eric Felder, Bill & Kalynda Stone, Raymond Wu, San Yuan, Bob Rogers, Ron Fletcher, Emilio Blanco, Marilyn Cunningham, Mike Luebke, Robert Wehrmeister, Richard Smithberg, Bob Watters, Bill Rauch, Robert Beall, Joan Beall, Alan Gould, Stephen Busch, Gisela Calkins, Rose Bower, Ojars Kratins, Barry Hart, Barrie Bieler, Stanley Sizeler, Doug Butler, Stephen, Julie Weiss, Leslie Crandell, Tim Szumowski, Jane Postiglione, Sherry Mullin, Bilha Sperling, Ernie Glover, Selden Parmelee, Meng + Linda Horng, Polly Boissevain, Kathleen Whiteman, Dick Stahlke, Boris Dmitruk, Ken Brockmann, Donita Hohenstein, Larry Porter, Joan & George Field, Laura Macdonald, Bill Chambard, Randy Hake, Pat Prettie, Jorge Brown, Sherry Grivett, Janet Reinstra, Tim Christoffersen, Gordana Zura
Hi all,

The passes are opened so we can make it across the Sierra at the end of the week.

Here are the names I now have as participants, please let me know of any omission or if you are bailing out ASAP. Thanks.

Contact each over for booking and sharing rooms.

Kathleen Whiteman
Jorge and Nancy Brown Ramada Inn/Bishop
Mike Luebke
Pat Prettie
Barrie Bieler, please confirm.
Barry Hart
Stanley Sizeler, please confirm.
Ernie Glover, please confirm.
Georges Pelpel
Gordana Zura may join us

Pat will ride with Mike, Mike is willing a share room.
Barrie will ride with Stanley and willing to share a room.
Barry is looking for a ride and willing to share a room.
Jorge and Nancy have made a reservation at the Ramada Inn in Bishop.
Kathleen may arrive late Friday.

Ernie and I will camp. Gordana will camp as well if she comes.

Once I have all confirmations I will organize car pools.

Georges

kathleen whiteman

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Oct 10, 2011, 9:50:27 AM10/10/11
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Georges - I will most likely spend Friday night in Markleeville and join the group sometime Saturday; UNLESS the fall colors on Monitor and in Hope Valley are just too spectacular to leave!! :)   If I join the group, I will probably camp.  Kathleen
PS: I need  your cell phone #?

Georges Pelpel

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Oct 10, 2011, 8:42:36 PM10/10/11
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Hi Kathleen,

My phone number is: 510-504-8285

Georges

kathleen whiteman

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Oct 10, 2011, 9:00:22 PM10/10/11
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Thank you Georges!   Do you know the name of the campground in June Lake that you and the others will be staying in? Kathleen

Georges Pelpel

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Oct 10, 2011, 11:18:13 PM10/10/11
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Hi Kathleen,

Not sure will be stay there. We will probably head up Bishop Creek in the mountains.


Campground in June Lake: http://pinecliffresort.net/
This one we will stay for sure.

Georges

Ernie Glover

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Oct 11, 2011, 12:58:02 AM10/11/11
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Georges,

I will be going!

Ernie
--
Ernie

Bill Stone

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Oct 11, 2011, 2:08:07 PM10/11/11
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Robert E. Wehrmeister

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Oct 11, 2011, 2:35:52 PM10/11/11
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This email came in just before I left for Monterey.  Very inspirational… Thanks for the tips.

 

Bob

 

Robert E. Wehrmeister

6 Bonnie Place

Pleasant Hill, CA 94523

wehrme...@comcast.net

(925) 939-0827


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Georges Pelpel

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Oct 11, 2011, 2:39:30 PM10/11/11
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Thanks Bill, great link.
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