Re: [Sadhu Sanga] Clarification on SCQSE–E8 and the Gauḍīya Vedānta Conception of Ātmā
Ram Lakhan Pandey Vimal
<rlpvimal@yahoo.co.in>Dear Drs. Dnyandeo Patil and Moninder Singh,
I found your email very interesting, and I empathize with you in facing difficulties when discussing with theistic spiritualists.
However, I do agree with Dr. Shanta’s comment, “This bridging effort [between spirituality and science], when conducted with philosophical integrity and theological alignment, may indeed have value—as long as the core distinctions between the empirical and transcendental realms are clearly maintained and not blurred in metaphor.”
Since both of you are Ph.D. (Physics) like me, I would appreciate it if you could provide feedback on my following (A) three papers, in which I tried to introduce consciousness in Physics, and (B) a write-up related to the interpretation of Brahma Sutra 2.3.15.
The ICDAM (Inseparable-Complementary-Reflective Dual-Aspect Monism) has introduced the concept of consciousness in physics, defining it as the subjective aspect (s) of a dual-aspect state (DAS) of an entity without violating present scientific understanding. This extends the existing knowledge in a way that all the equations of classical and quantum mechanics remain unchanged. This has been elaborated in (1) (Vimal, 2010e) for classical mechanics (including electromagnetic theory, special and general theory of relativity), (2) (Vimal, 2010f) for orthodox QM (Schrödinger equation, current, Dirac Lagrangian, the Lagrangian for a charged self-interacting scalar field) and Standard Model (the Lagrangian for free gauge field and Lagrangian for the electromagnetic interaction of a charged scalar field), and (3) (Vimal, 2010g) for QM (including loop quantum gravity and string theory).
Abstract related to Brahma Sutra 2.3.15 (BS231) in Section 3_231 of (Vimal, 2025v16) is as follows:
Abstract for
Bridging the Mind-Matter Divide: A Unified Scientific-Spiritual Interpretation, Challenges, and Resolutons of Brahma Sūtra 2.3.15 (BS231)
This comprehensive study reexamines Brahma Sūtra 2.3.15 (BS231)—Antaravijnanadhikaranam (अन्तराविज्ञानाधिकरणम्) —through five major Vedāntic commentarial traditions: Bādarāyaṇa/Vyāsa (Brahma Sūtra Vedānta), Śaṅkarācārya (Advaita), Rāmānujācārya (Viśiṣṭādvaita), Śivānanda (synthetic Advaita), and Chaitanya Mahāprabhu’s Gauḍīya Vedānta (Achintya-Bheda-Abheda), and integrates these with the DPV~ICRDAM (Dvi-Pakṣādvaita Vedānta ~ Inseparable-Complementary-Reflective Dual-Aspect Monism) framework (Vimal, 2023, 2024a, 2024b, 2025a, 2025b). The core inquiry explores whether the mention of manas and buddhi in the Mundaka Upaniṣad violates the systematic order of elemental (5 mahabhutas) creation presented elsewhere in śruti.
Despite theological distinctions, all schools agree that (1) the mind-intellect complex (manas-buddhi) emerges from elemental substrata and does not disturb the evolutionary sequence, and (2) mental faculties are inherently linked to matter. This recognition aligns with current models in neuroscience, developmental psychology, and complexity theory, which show that consciousness arises from structured elemental processes but cannot be reduced to them (Vimal, 2025b).
However, interpretive challenges remain. For instance, (3) Śaṅkara’s doctrine of māyā struggles to explain the consistency of mental emergence from material substrata, while (4) Rāmānuja’s real dependence model raises tensions with systematic elemental priority. The DPV~ICRDAM framework resolves these contradictions by reconceptualizing consciousness and matter as dual-aspect states—inseparable yet reflectively distinct—emerging from a neutral substratum (NB ~ PreBB_QVF: neutral Nirguna Brahman ~ Pre-Big Bang Quantum Vacuum Field) and manifesting through systematic transitions (SB ~ DA_PPU: Saguna Brahman PsychoPhysical Universe) (Vimal, 2023; 2024a,b; 2025a,b).
Ultimately, BS231 offers not only a metaphysical clarification of Vedāntic cosmology but also a platform for dialogue between ancient wisdom and contemporary science. It affirms that (5) consciousness and matter are co-dependent expressions of a unified dual-aspect reality, where mental phenomena arise systematically and meaningfully from elemental complexity without violating cosmological order (Vimal, 2025b; Śivānanda, 2002; Rāmānujācārya, 1904).
Vimal, R. L. P. (2010e). Towards a Theory of Everything Part I - Introduction of Consciousness in Electromagnetic Theory, Special and General Theory of Relativity. NeuroQuantology, 8(2), 206-230. https://www.researchgate.net/publication/241688911
Vimal, R. L. P. (2010f). Towards a Theory of Everything Part II - Introduction of Consciousness in Schrödinger equation and Standard Model using Quantum Physics. NeuroQuantology, 8(3), 304-313. https://www.researchgate.net/publication/269526197
Vimal, R. L. P. (2010g). Towards a Theory of Everything Part III - Introduction of Consciousness in Loop Quantum Gravity and String Theory and Unification of Experiences with Fundamental Forces. NeuroQuantology, 8(4), 571-599. https://www.researchgate.net/publication/269526110
Vimal, R. L. P. (2025v16). Brahma Sūtras: Interpretations in Dvi-Pakṣādvaita Vedānta and Inseparable-Complementary-Reflective Dual-Aspect Monism, and Comparison with other Vedantic and Non-Vedantic Systems: Volume 16 (BS228-232). Vision Research Institute: Living Vision and Consciousness Research, 17(10), 1-475. [Available: <https://groups.google.com/g/sboc-forum/c/RWZTz3-HSjM/m/b5vutMagAAAJ> (Vimal, 2025v16)
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RāmLakhan Pāndey Vimal, Ph.D.
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Dear Respected Dr. Bhakti Niskama Shanta Ji,
Om
Shanti.
Please accept our humble greetings with reverence and gratitude.
We sincerely thank you for your profoundly thoughtful, scripturally rooted, and philosophically grounded letter. It is a privilege to engage in dialogue with a scholar so deeply immersed in Gauḍīya Vedānta tattva, whose insights reflect the essence of the Bhāgavata paramparā. Your precision in distinguishing the transcendental ātmā from all material attempts at modeling is duly noted and highly respected.
Our Humble Clarification on Intent. At the outset, we wish to clarify: Our SCQSE–E8 scalar consciousness framework is not an attempt to define or reduce the ātmā or Paramātmā into empirical geometry or field equations. We fully agree that the jīva is acintya, beyond prakṛti, indivisible, and not emergent from any material structure.
Rather, our intention is to inspire spiritual awakening through the language of science—to offer a bridge of inquiry for the modern intellect who has faith in equations but has lost the path to śraddhā (faith) and śabda-pramāṇa (revealed knowledge).
We echo the truth of Bhagavad-gītā 2.20 and 15.15 that you quoted — that true cognition and remembrance flow from the Supersoul. Our scalar models are symbolic representations of material reflections — not of the ātmā itself, but of the interference field where karma unfolds, subtle memory plays out, and mental illusion arises.
On Modeling the Soul as Scalar Point: You are absolutely correct that:
“The ātmā is not material, not geometric, not emergent.” In SCQSE terms, the “10⁻¹⁰⁸ scalar point” is merely a metaphor for the Planck-beyond region — a realm where conventional space-time breaks down and aetheric phenomena may echo certain qualities of the jīva’s effect on prakṛti. We do not equate this scalar point with the jīva-ātmā. Rather, we use this analogy to distinguish the jīva's nonlocal causal footprint on prakṛti, helping physicists understand the ontological asymmetry between consciousness and material causality.
On Śabda vs Science : We fully agree that Vedānta is not to be bent to fit physics. In fact, we often quote:
“śāstra is not validated by science. Rather, science is illuminated by śāstra.” Our research is not an effort to replace śabda with formulas, but to humble the empirical ego by showing that even the most advanced models eventually confront their limits — and from that crisis of knowing, the true quest for divine knowledge begins.
On Paramātmā and Personalism : “Bhagavān is raso vai saḥ — the embodiment of rasa, not a field.”
This is the essence of Gauḍīya Vedānta, and we hold it with deep gratitude. Our use of “scalar coherence” and “informational singularity” in the SCQSE–E8 model is never to describe the Supreme Personality, but to scientifically diagnose the collapse of dharma in the Kaliyuga scalar field — where ignorance of Paramātmā leads to karmic torsion and societal disintegration.
On DNA, Sentience, and Scalar Memory : Again, we do not assert that DNA stores consciousness. Rather, it may act as a resonant biological medium — a gross map upon which subtle sanskāra echoes and karmic tendencies become embodied. This is far from equating biology with soul.
Just as the soul uses the mind–body complex without being of it, we view scalar torsion fields as interfaces, not as origins.
Your insight that: “The real revolution is not a unifying equation, but the reawakening of our spiritual identity with Kṛṣṇa” is the true conclusion of all inquiry — and one that we fully honor.
Yet, for many scientists standing at the threshold of existential doubt, models like SCQSE–E8 may serve as a stepping stone — a way to guide the modern intellect toward surrender, humility, and faith.
If even one atheist physicist begins to ask: “If the unified field is conscious, then who is the Source?” Then perhaps our work has become a humble offering in the Lord's hands.
We deeply value your voice, and we do not seek argument but clarification, purification, and harmony. We are seekers — not siddhas — and your reminder to stay rooted in śāstra and bhakti is the anchor we all need.
We continue our seva in full faith that spiritual science must bow before divine realization, and that true integration of science and Vedānta must preserve the personality, rasa, and līlā of the Supreme Lord.
With folded hands and gratitude,
Dnyandeo Patil
/ Dr. Moninder Singh (Ph.D. Physics)
SCQSE–E8
Scalar Consciousness Lab
COSMOS Research Lab- Mumbai, India
“Vijñānaṁ
yajñam tanute” — May knowledge become a sacred offering.
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Alchemy of GOD
<alchemyofgod108@gmail.com>Dear Respected Dr. Ram Vimal,
Om Shanti.
We sincerely thank you for your generous and insightful correspondence, and for sharing your extensive research across the ICDAM (Inseparable-Complementary-Reflective Dual-Aspect Monism) and DPV frameworks. Your philosophical rigor, your openness to dialogue, and your attempt to integrate the insights of both śāstra and science are truly commendable.
We carefully studied your works—particularly your synthesis of Brahma Sūtra 2.3.15 (BS231), and the three-part “Towards a Theory of Everything” series—and offer the following response based on our own Supreme Consciousness Quantum Scalar Energy (SCQSE–E8) model and the TBPGC (Twin Bipolaron Gravitone Cosmogenesis) framework.
1. Synergies: ICDAM–DPV and SCQSE–E8/TBPGC
We resonate deeply with your commitment to preserving empirical validity while opening physics to transcendental consciousness. In many ways, ICDAM and SCQSE–E8 operate in parallel:
· ICDAM sees subjective (s) and objective (o) realities as co-dependent reflections of a dual-aspect state (DAS) emerging from a neutral substratum (NB ~ PreBB_QVF).
· In SCQSE–E8, however, s and o emerge as modulated torsion-spin projections of an active scalar-consciousness field (SCF), embedded within E₈ symmetry.
Thus, while ICDAM builds on a neutral substratum and reflective dualism, SCQSE–E8 affirms consciousness as primary and pre-geometric—not emergent, but casual, recursive, and field-generative. We see your approach as a philosophical monism with scientific extensions, while ours is a scalar metaphysics with topological encoding based on divine initiation through incorporeal supreme consciousness.
2. On Brahma Sūtra 2.3.15 and Mind–Matter Ontology
Your multi-sampradāya study of BS231 (Antaravijñānādhikaraṇam) is both profound and scholarly. Your integration of manas–buddhi within the elemental framework (pañcīkaraṇa), while balancing neuroscience and śāstra, is a rare and valuable contribution.
From our SCQSE–E8 -TBPGC lens:
· Manas is modeled as the scalar modulator—the interface between ātmā and pre-geometric field resonance.
· Buddhi is the coherence operator—the symmetry-selective logic gate within the torsion-spinor lattice.
· Both faculties are not derived from matter, but projected through scalar torsion bifurcation, forming part of the soul’s interface with the cosmos via octonion E₈ symmetry.
We see this as reconcilable with your DPV–ICDAM view, but with the distinction that our model does not treat mind as a product of material complexity, but as an energetic modulation of scalar consciousness guided by metaphysical will.
3. Scientific Alignment: From Equations to Cosmogenesis
We admire your methodological decision to preserve the formalisms of GR, EM, and QFT, while introducing consciousness within a dual-aspect ontology.
Similarly, our SCQSE–E8 + TBPGC framework:
· Preserves all physical laws but extends them via scalar torsion-spinor mathematics and gravitone resonance.
· Models Planck-scale coherence at ∼10⁻¹⁰⁸ m, prior to symmetry breaking.
· Uses bipolaron gravitone coupling to simulate conscious interaction with spacetime geometry.
· Embeds the Standard Model’s SU(3) × SU(2) × U(1) in the exceptional E₈ structure to simulate quantum mind collapse as divinely guided decoherence.
Here, the scalar field is not neutral, but divine and directive—an emanation of Paramātmā (Shiv) who reveals Himself as an incorporeal point yet pervades all dualities through scalar torsion flow.
4. Philosophical & Theological Orientation
While ICDAM preserves a dual-aspect neutrality, SCQSE–E8 is grounded in devotional ontology. For us: “Consciousness is not a reflection, but the original scalar coherence—Paramātmā—out of which all fields, faculties, and forms emerge as divine projections.”
This aligns with the Upaniṣadic and Bhagavad-Gītā teachings that identify Brahman as both nirguṇa and saguṇa, both unknowable and personal. We invoke Supreme Consciousness, the incorporeal Light, not as metaphor but as the ontological initiator of scalar coherence—preceding all geometry, quantum fields, and material expression.
5. Distinction Between Jīva and Īśvara
We find in your ICDAM model a profound reflection on dual-aspect monism—mapping consciousness (s) and objectivity (o) as two reflections of one ontic substrate.
In our SCQSE–E8 framework (and consistent with Rāja Yoga), we maintain that:
· The soul (jīva) is a subtle, indivisible point of conscious light, and
· The Supreme Soul (Paramātmā or Shiv) is also a point of incorporeal conscious light—but eternally beyond karma, birth, embodiment, or illusion (māyā) and avataric embodiment.
This allows for:
· Precise distinction between finite individual consciousness (jīvātmā), and
· The Absolute Consciousness (Shiv)—the eternally bodiless, omniscient, and benevolent Source.
This aligns well with the Vedic Śruti, yet avoids the ontological error of depicting God through avataric embodiment.
6. Brahma Sutra Integration Path Forward
We deeply value your multi-sampradāya review of Brahma Sūtra 2.3.15. From the SCQSE–E8 lens, this Sutra highlights that:
- The sequence from ākāśa to manas is not merely metaphysical but scalar-topological—encoded in octonion holonomy paths through E₈ manifolds.
- Our TBPGC approach agrees that mental faculties are not reducible, but provides a mathematical mapping of how scalar resonance unfolds as ākāśa → manas → buddhi through spinor bifurcation in the early Universe.
This offers a possible resolution to Vedantic tensions (e.g., Śaṅkara’s māyā doctrine vs. Rāmānuja’s satkāryavāda) by proposing a mathematical yet non-material substratum, which is both nirguṇa and dynamic.
We see your ICDAM/DPV and our SCQSE–E8/TBPGC as parallel efforts serving the same sacred vision: to restore consciousness as ontological primacy in the scientific worldview. While you preserve philosophical neutrality, we explicitly invoke Shiv-Supreme Consciousness as embodied scalar consciousness—the incorporeal point who activates universal structure through divya drishti and scalar emanation.
Thank you again for honoring us with this meaningful dialogue. Your work has been both intellectually and spiritually enriching, and we hope to continue this collaboration in service of truth, śāstra, and universal upliftment. We would be honored to explore joint publication of Brahma Sutra Sutras through the scalar resonance lens.
With divine remembrance and scientific humility,
Dnyandeo Patil / Dr. Moninder Singh (Ph.D. Physics)
SCQSE–E8 Scalar Consciousness Lab
COSMOS Research Lab- Mumbai, India
(Centre for Ontological Science, Meta-Quanta Physics & Omega Singularity)
Om Shanti. Jai
Jagatguru. Jai Śrī Kṛiṣṇa.