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Keith Franks
May 2, 2013, 7:06:13 PM5/2/13
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Hi all,
Long time lurker, one time visitor.
I don't know if this is appropriate or not, so shut me down if it is.
I have a project I want to do and I need some help. I really don't want to go into details, but the project is to create a device that could conceivably help over a million disabled people in Australia. I have done research, planned out concepts and looked at the feasibility of this project and I believe that it will be successful.
However, I am kind of missing two things - a programming guru and an electronics guru. That may actually be only one person, but I don't have enough skills in those areas to pull this thing off myself. I have a high enough understanding to manage the project and make it a success, but I need the input of a person(s) who knows what they're talking about.
Ideally, I need to have some discussions fairly soon to get this underway. This is a ground level opportunity to be a part of something that really helps people in need - a good feeling and a good challenge. This is not a job posting though since there is absolutely no money involved in this at all.
If there is anyone out there that's interested and would like to get involved for something interesting to do, please contact me. The programming would end up all open source and have something to do with self-learning (the "computer" getting "smarter" all the time) and the electronics would be something like arduino/raspberry pi/special board/etc with sensors and peripherals.
Like I said, this is not a job opening and there is no money in this. If you are thinking "I have some extra time and I'm looking for a new project that could actually help people" give me a yell (or an email... probably more likely to respond to an email).
I hope this doesn't contravene any rules - I apologise in advance if this is the case.
Keith
Robert Powers
May 2, 2013, 8:19:19 PM5/2/13
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Hi Keith,
I don't think there's anything amiss with people asking for help on projects - it's sort of what happens here : )
However, and don't take this the wrong way, the technical aspects are almost certainly what will determine the feasibility of a project. When a non-technical person brings up 'self-learning' as a software requirement, it immediately sets off alarm bells. There are countless fantastic ideas and most of them are laid to rest in unmarked graves because implementation is everything. Quite a lot has been written about your situation as it's fairly common in the startup scene. The beginning of this article might illuminate why you might hear crickets after asking a question like the above: http://techcrunch.com/2012/04/15/stop-looking-for-a-technical-co-founder/
Again, I'm not trying to be nasty, just pointing out a bit of reality.
The great upside is that you probably haven't got much to lose by just outlining your project to as many technical people as possible and see if it gets torn to shreds. If it doesn't, you might be on to something.
You could approach that in many ways, but two obvious ones would be to:
A) Reply to this list with more specifics.
B) Come to the Hackerspace at a general meeting time (Tuesday/Saturday), and see if you can get anyone to talk with you about it. Tomorrow would be a good opportunity - it's open from 9AM.*
* Since you're looking for technical answers/contacts, you will need to be pay membership. That can be as little as $10 for a casual (1-day) membership and paid in cash on visiting the space. It isn't a guarantee that other members will engage you on this topic, however.
And if you really do have some super-duper idea and it will help millions, let's have it out of your head where it might have a chance.
Cheers,
Bob Powers
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Keith Franks
May 2, 2013, 8:58:46 PM5/2/13
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Bob,
Great points! Thanks so much.
The article you linked to is really interesting and is great to reaffirm what I'm looking to achieve.
The first thing I want to clarify is that I will be a financial member of CCHS - I won't be doing the monthly amount because I can't make it to the space on a weekend and probably only one night a week. If I miss out one week a month I'm worse off. Therefore I'll be just paying as I go. I tend not to use the equipment there, more just the fellowship/discussion/advice.
Secondly, this is a project (one of many I have going on). One piece of advice I didn't see in that article is "Don't make a product your business". This project for me is more about a way to help out others without just throwing money at an organisation as a tax deduction, or share a post on Facebook - but actually helping people.
Having said that, I wanted to quickly answer a couple of points from that article which I think are really relevant.
- The project I'm talking about is to design a product to help people. I'm not wanting to make a start up company.
- I AM a Technical person. I have a long grounded history in coding and these days spend most of my time making sure that developers are keeping the big picture in mind, rather than using object based blinkers.
- I could learn the code myself and the electronics side of the project. And in a decade or so, I could make the project happen without help. However, I want to do this now as the timing is great.
- The article says to hire an external team. I could do that. However I want to kick the idea around with a bunch of people who know what they're talking about at a hands on day-to-day level. More importantly, people who would also like to use their mad scientist skills for good and not evil.
- If no one wants to be involved, that's okay - I can hire people/delay the project/look further afield/etc but thought it would be good to offer - and I would hate to hear someone from the space say "I wish I had known, I would have loved to been involved with that!"
- I have said there is no money involved with this. There is no promise of glory, money or equity. If this thing all works out, all I can guarantee is a nice warm fuzzy feeling of doing something nice for someone.
- No NDAs, no secrets. I will be happy to disclose everything to anyone who is interested, but I don't want to flood the email threads with vague ideas.
Keith
Robert Powers
May 2, 2013, 10:13:20 PM5/2/13
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G'Day Keith,
I wasn't so much advocating for all of the ideas in the article linked, I just knew the the first section was a succinct way of demonstrating what happens when an 'ideas guy' goes looking for a 'technical guy' and what the common feelings are on both sides tends to be. And why a person with world-changing ideas might be frustrated that no one seems to be listening.
Some of your other points I might address:
The project I'm talking about is to design a product to help people. I'm not wanting to make a start up company.
Companies don't have to be for profit or antithetical to helping people. If you want to design a product and distribute it in a meaningful way, you ARE wanting to make a start up. Anything less would be doomed to failure. If you want to just design something, put it out there and hope someone else will pick it up, you might as well bin it now. There are probably counterexamples, but I can't think of one off the top of my head; they are surely few and very far between.
I AM a Technical person. I have a long grounded history in coding and these days spend most of my time making sure that developers are keeping the big picture in mind, rather than using object based blinkers.
I could learn the code myself and the electronics side of the project. And in a decade or so, I could make the project happen without help.
Ok, but you're saying you need to learn to code and it would take you a decade on your own, whereas you're after one or two talented engineers to make this happen now. Sorry, but you're not technical in regards to this project. And it's those specifics that will determine if this sinks or swims. Please don't take it as an insult that I'm saying you aren't technical, I don't mean it to be. It is however, evident.
- The article says to hire an external team. I could do that. However I want to kick the idea around with a bunch of people who know what they're talking about at a hands on day-to-day level. More importantly, people who would also like to use their mad scientist skills for good and not evil.
Good, you're on the right track.
- If no one wants to be involved, that's okay - I can hire people/delay the project/look further afield/etc but thought it would be good to offer - and I would hate to hear someone from the space say "I wish I had known, I would have loved to been involved with that!"
- I have said there is no money involved with this. There is no promise of glory, money or equity. If this thing all works out, all I can guarantee is a nice warm fuzzy feeling of doing something nice for someone.
So you've got a brilliant idea that can help millions, you're willing to put your money and time behind it if necessary, and there's no money in it for the guys/gals that would turn it in to a reality? Mate, if you want something to fly, you'll need to think broader than that. There are any number of funding sources nowadays and whatever company structure comes about, if you want this to happen now, you'll want whoever is doing that work to be able to justify that 80 hours/wk AND be able to eat. Sure, you might find a volunteer here or there, but counting on that will just put you back on your 10-year-do-it-yourself track.
No NDAs, no secrets. I will be happy to disclose everything to anyone who is interested, but I don't want to flood the email threads with vague ideas.
You say you've been lurking on this mailing list? Then you know vague ideas is 98% of what is talked about. There's an ongoing 40+-email chain about a garage door opener and how that might be screwing up a 3d-printer. No one has complained that every email gets further and further down the garden path of the most obscure sources of RF interference and the most convoluted ways of diagnosing and preventing them with tin foil. Literally. Tin foil. Your automated flying wheelchair isn't noise, it's the signal.
No NDA's, secrets, or money, it's going to help humanity in a big way, and all you want to do is attract discussion? OUT WITH IT THEN! This is the place you'll get the most eyes and ears, not whispering about it with whoever you can bump in to on a random Saturday morning at the 'space.
You want to be Ernest Shackleton? Then let's see that confidence in your ideas and an endless belief in promoting them.
Cheers,
Bob
Andy Gelme
May 2, 2013, 10:23:38 PM5/2/13
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hi All,
On 2013-05-3 10:19 , Robert Powers wrote:
> Tomorrow would be a good opportunity - it's open from 9AM.*
* Open from 9:15 am, but I'd aim for 9:30 am ... just to be sure :)
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On 2013-05-3 10:19 , Robert Powers wrote:
> Tomorrow would be a good opportunity - it's open from 9AM.*
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AJ
May 2, 2013, 10:44:04 PM5/2/13
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it strikes me as odd that there is no financial gain to be had, the
project is about charity/goodwill yet giving some details seems to be
an issue?
Why? if your motive is to see it get done, for the benefit of
society; why are you so precise about the idea.
> However I want to kick the idea around with a bunch of people
> who know what they're talking about at a hands on day-to-day
> level. More importantly, people who would also like to use
> their mad scientist skills for good and not evil.
>
> Good, you're on the right track.
>
> * If no one wants to be involved, that's okay - I can hire
> who know what they're talking about at a hands on day-to-day
> level. More importantly, people who would also like to use
> their mad scientist skills for good and not evil.
>
> Good, you're on the right track.
>
> people/delay the project/look further afield/etc but thought
> it would be good to offer - and I would hate to hear someone
> from the space say "I wish I had known, I would have loved to
> been involved with that!"
>
> * I have said there is no money involved with this. There is no
> it would be good to offer - and I would hate to hear someone
> from the space say "I wish I had known, I would have loved to
> been involved with that!"
>
> people. I'm not wanting to make a start up company.
> * I AM a Technical person. I have a long grounded history in
> coding and these days spend most of my time making sure that
> developers are keeping the big picture in mind, rather than
> using object based blinkers.
> * I could learn the code myself and the electronics side of the
> developers are keeping the big picture in mind, rather than
> using object based blinkers.
> project. And in a decade or so, I could make the project
> happen without help. However, I want to do this now as the
> timing is great.
> * The article says to hire an external team. I could do that.
> happen without help. However, I want to do this now as the
> timing is great.
> However I want to kick the idea around with a bunch of people
> who know what they're talking about at a hands on day-to-day
> level. More importantly, people who would also like to use
> their mad scientist skills for good and not evil.
> * If no one wants to be involved, that's okay - I can hire
> who know what they're talking about at a hands on day-to-day
> level. More importantly, people who would also like to use
> their mad scientist skills for good and not evil.
> people/delay the project/look further afield/etc but thought
> it would be good to offer - and I would hate to hear someone
> from the space say "I wish I had known, I would have loved to
> been involved with that!"
> * I have said there is no money involved with this. There is no
> it would be good to offer - and I would hate to hear someone
> from the space say "I wish I had known, I would have loved to
> been involved with that!"
> promise of glory, money or equity. If this thing all works
> out, all I can guarantee is a nice warm fuzzy feeling of doing
> something nice for someone.
> * No NDAs, no secrets. I will be happy to disclose everything to
> out, all I can guarantee is a nice warm fuzzy feeling of doing
> something nice for someone.
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Jacob Gillies
May 2, 2013, 10:58:03 PM5/2/13
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+1 for "OUT WITH IT"... Your killing us here!
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Darren Freeman
May 2, 2013, 11:18:40 PM5/2/13
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On Fri, 2013-05-03 at 12:13 +1000, Robert Powers wrote:
> You say you've been lurking on this mailing list? Then you know vague
> ideas is 98% of what is talked about. There's an ongoing 40+-email
> chain about a garage door opener and how that might be screwing up a
> 3d-printer. No one has complained that every email gets further and
> further down the garden path of the most obscure sources of RF
> interference and the most convoluted ways of diagnosing and preventing
> them with tin foil. Literally. Tin foil. Your automated flying
> wheelchair isn't noise, it's the signal.
>
I'm just wondering what you've got against DIY Faraday cages.. :)
> You say you've been lurking on this mailing list? Then you know vague
> ideas is 98% of what is talked about. There's an ongoing 40+-email
> chain about a garage door opener and how that might be screwing up a
> 3d-printer. No one has complained that every email gets further and
> further down the garden path of the most obscure sources of RF
> interference and the most convoluted ways of diagnosing and preventing
> them with tin foil. Literally. Tin foil. Your automated flying
> wheelchair isn't noise, it's the signal.
>
I'd like to caution everyone, including Keith, that at this point he is
showing a lot of red flags as being a crackpot.
Sadly, I have experience in this. I was once asked to help out on a
project to benefit humanity. I was asked to make a huge investment in a
treatment for the sick and dying. Unfortunately, he turned out not only
to be a complete lunatic, but also thoroughly dishonest and dangerous to
the public. It took years out of my productive life, including the time
it took to stop him from hurting people and to bring him to justice, and
it left me heavily in debt. It might have been better for everyone, had
I not helped him..
http://www.ntnews.com.au/article/2011/11/05/270831_ntnews.html
So, please, out with your great idea that's going to benefit humanity at
no profit to yourself, or I'll happily assume that you're also a
crackpot. I expect that most of the people lurking on the list are
forming that opinion already, since you've now spent more time
justifying why you can't tell us than it would have taken to tell us.
Have fun,
Darren
Andy Gelme
May 2, 2013, 11:28:22 PM5/2/13
to connected-commu...@googlegroups.com, Darren Freeman
hi All,
On 2013-05-3 13:18 , Darren Freeman wrote:
> I'd like to caution everyone, including Keith, that at this point he
> is showing a lot of red flags as being a crackpot.
Let's keep it nice and on topic here ... and not go around calling
people names. That's not how we roll.
Everyone has made it clear to Keith that "announcements without details"
... are unlikely to fly. He now knows what he needs to do next, if he
wishes to engage people.
Yes, we all need to be careful of our time and avoid getting roped into
projects that can be disappointing or worse. When people don't know
each other, then don't commit 100% without due diligence. If it appears
interesting, contribute just a little bit, i.e nothing more than you can
spare ... and judge from that.
Typically, projects at the CCHS are open, because it is difficult to
discuss otherwise. Putting all project artifacts into repositories,
such as GitHub, with an appropriate license ... right from the start
ensures that everyone may benefit from community based efforts. That's
how we roll.
On 2013-05-3 13:18 , Darren Freeman wrote:
> I'd like to caution everyone, including Keith, that at this point he
> is showing a lot of red flags as being a crackpot.
people names. That's not how we roll.
Everyone has made it clear to Keith that "announcements without details"
... are unlikely to fly. He now knows what he needs to do next, if he
wishes to engage people.
Yes, we all need to be careful of our time and avoid getting roped into
projects that can be disappointing or worse. When people don't know
each other, then don't commit 100% without due diligence. If it appears
interesting, contribute just a little bit, i.e nothing more than you can
spare ... and judge from that.
Typically, projects at the CCHS are open, because it is difficult to
discuss otherwise. Putting all project artifacts into repositories,
such as GitHub, with an appropriate license ... right from the start
ensures that everyone may benefit from community based efforts. That's
how we roll.
Darren Freeman
May 2, 2013, 11:41:53 PM5/2/13
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On Fri, 2013-05-03 at 13:28 +1000, Andy Gelme wrote:
> hi All,
>
> On 2013-05-3 13:18 , Darren Freeman wrote:
> > I'd like to caution everyone, including Keith, that at this point he
> > is showing a lot of red flags as being a crackpot.
>
> Let's keep it nice and on topic here ... and not go around calling
> people names. That's not how we roll.
I'm not calling anyone anything.
> hi All,
>
> On 2013-05-3 13:18 , Darren Freeman wrote:
> > I'd like to caution everyone, including Keith, that at this point he
> > is showing a lot of red flags as being a crackpot.
>
> Let's keep it nice and on topic here ... and not go around calling
> people names. That's not how we roll.
I'm merely pointing out that a certain style of communication may give
an undesirable impression. Although I'm the first to mention it, I find
it doubtful that I'm the only one thinking it. It is in Keith's
interests to know that this is how a fraction of readers are taking his
rather vague and secretive requests for assistance to develop the Next
Big Thing.
If he is legitimate then I hope it will be taken as constructive
criticism. I merely add my name to the handful of other people who have
already asked for the idea to be openly stated.
Have fun,
Darren
David Lyon
May 2, 2013, 11:43:21 PM5/2/13
to connected-commu...@googlegroups.com
I knew Keith when he was here in Sydney. I helped him work on an
LED project at the Sydney Hackerspace.
My experience was that he wasn't dishonest and wasn't chasing undue gains.
I'd suggest that his project is perhaps substantially modest.
I suggest you reverse noose-him, he's a competent Salesperson into some sort
of helpful role.
LED project at the Sydney Hackerspace.
My experience was that he wasn't dishonest and wasn't chasing undue gains.
I'd suggest that his project is perhaps substantially modest.
I suggest you reverse noose-him, he's a competent Salesperson into some sort
of helpful role.
Keith Franks
May 3, 2013, 12:12:11 AM5/3/13
to connected-commu...@googlegroups.com
Okay, fair call to all.
So, I'm not a crackpot (although, that's exactly what a crackpot would say).
The issue I have is that this is a very open mail list. Any can read it.
Add to that the majority of people who do read this email list are capable of carrying out most projects that would be suggested.
I don't want to be secretive. And my reasons are altruistic. I have come up with a very simple idea that anyone could do. But, the difference between success and failure of a project is not whether it works, but how well it is marketed. Case in point: iPhone, BETA video, McDonalds, etc.
I would hate to see a good idea go down and spoilt for the future because it has been executed poorly.
On top of all that, as mentioned in this thread, there are people out there who take advantage of people. I don't want the people I'm trying to help suffer for something that may not have been executed properly.
I ask for no money, I offer no money. All I'm asking is that if there is anyone out there would be interested in being a part of this, to have some initial chats.
I'm sorry if I've given people the wrong idea or rubbed anyone the wrong way - I'm used to doing pitches in corporate board rooms, not hack spaces. And this was never meant to be a pitch - just wondering if anyone was interested.
I feel like the guy who asked if anyone was going to the bar and ended up shouting everyone... ; )
Keith
Darren Freeman
May 3, 2013, 12:31:36 AM5/3/13
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On Fri, 2013-05-03 at 14:12 +1000, Keith Franks wrote:
> The issue I have is that this is a very open mail list. Any can read
> it.
Then you'd best be turning up and talking to people in confidence. At
> The issue I have is that this is a very open mail list. Any can read
> it.
least the people who turn up have shown some level of free time :)
> I would hate to see a good idea go down and spoilt for the future
> because it has been executed poorly.
> On top of all that, as mentioned in this thread, there are people out
> there who take advantage of people. I don't want the people I'm trying
> to help suffer for something that may not have been executed properly.
certain level of confidentiality in order to make a sensible business
case. But then don't tell us that you have no interest in starting a
business. If you're just kicking the dirt, you'll be disappointed in how
little traction you get. My time is valuable, even if I choose to give
it away. At the very least I could be earning $100k p/a and giving half
of it to Medecins Sans Frontieres. There's no risk in that, people
actually get helped.
You could, at this point, seek protection for your IP and make it
property of the business that you will invariably have to found to see
this through. Then you could actually give us a high-level description
of what you're doing and offer a stake in the business to people who
commit their time. Although you say profit is not a motive, not going
broke and being homeless (been there) should be your highest priority,
both for yourself and your generous partners. Ignoring that is not only
counterproductive, it is just plain foolish. If you don't want to give a
stake to the people who believe in you and put their time in for free,
then those people ought to be asking questions about what you're really
up to.
I hope you won't be discouraged by my comments. But you need to give us
more than this if you want us to put aside other projects in favour of
yours. You might have noticed that we have more things to do than time
will ever allow :)
I highly recommend this book if you are serious about being a social
change-maker: "The Power of Unreasonable People", by John Elkington and
Pamela Hartigan.
http://www.amazon.com/Power-Unreasonable-People-Entrepreneurs-Markets/dp/1422104060
Have fun,
Darren
Robert Powers
May 3, 2013, 12:32:26 AM5/3/13
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Hi Keith,
Ok, although I honestly cannot understand your logic in with-holding a simple idea anyone can do that somehow involves machine learning and might be ruined by poor marketing and could potentially be used maliciously, please, send me privately whatever it is we're talking about. I don't know if I'll make the Hackerspace tomorrow morning, but if you want to take a punt, I might be there sometime after 10AM.
BTW, I have a background in all of the skills you're seeking (programming, electronics, yadda-yadda), so don't be surprised if I stop you after about 30 seconds and tell you it's been done 10 different ways already, is stupendously difficult to impossible, and/or is complete bloody ridiculousness. I think you can tell from my demeanor that this would not be personal, however, given what I've heard so far, one or more of those is probably very likely.
If you genuinely have something, I can help and I know plenty of other people who could too.
Cheers,
Bob Powers
Clifford Heath
May 3, 2013, 12:40:01 AM5/3/13
to connected-commu...@googlegroups.com
Robert,
This is the same offer I made privately to Keith just after 9AM.
No response, just the public yada yada.
One wonders what he does expect, actually, but if he shows no
more responsiveness than this, I'll be sure to ignore any future
postings he makes requesting anything.
Clifford Heath.
This is the same offer I made privately to Keith just after 9AM.
No response, just the public yada yada.
One wonders what he does expect, actually, but if he shows no
more responsiveness than this, I'll be sure to ignore any future
postings he makes requesting anything.
Clifford Heath.
Luke Weston
May 3, 2013, 4:11:31 AM5/3/13
to connected-commu...@googlegroups.com
Suppose that you've got some great idea for a website or a software system of some kind (not hardware) that has some great social justice benefit, and you've got no funding, but you persuade some technically skilled people that this is really worth doing, and they agree to invest the amount of time needed to do the R&D on an unpaid volunteer basis. With volunteer technically skilled labor - as long as enough person-hours are volunteered, with an appropriate technical skillset - you can deliver a software system with very little need to spend any money.
But with hardware, it's different. Even if you've got skilled engineers working as unpaid volunteers, eventually you need to have a bit of funding or you'll end up stuck.
You might come up with a first-draft prototype design ready to be manufactured, but you can't manufacture it without any money. For a hardware product, you need to think about *some* funding. Significantly less funding than you would need if you were paying employees, sure, but it still needs to be non-zero.
Also, if you're expecting people to volunteer for free, I think you'll really have to keep everything entirely open and transparent and open-source. I don't think you'll have any luck at all trying to get people to help as unpaid volunteers if everything is wrapped in closedness, opacity and secrecy. If you think that you must have secrecy and NDAs and what-not to protect your ideas that you believe are so commercially valuable that they'll be stolen, then it's time to take those valuable ideas and go out and get VC the old fashioned way. (Or the not-so-old-fashioned way, namely crowdfunding, which might be a good fit for what you want to do.)
But with hardware, it's different. Even if you've got skilled engineers working as unpaid volunteers, eventually you need to have a bit of funding or you'll end up stuck.
You might come up with a first-draft prototype design ready to be manufactured, but you can't manufacture it without any money. For a hardware product, you need to think about *some* funding. Significantly less funding than you would need if you were paying employees, sure, but it still needs to be non-zero.
Also, if you're expecting people to volunteer for free, I think you'll really have to keep everything entirely open and transparent and open-source. I don't think you'll have any luck at all trying to get people to help as unpaid volunteers if everything is wrapped in closedness, opacity and secrecy. If you think that you must have secrecy and NDAs and what-not to protect your ideas that you believe are so commercially valuable that they'll be stolen, then it's time to take those valuable ideas and go out and get VC the old fashioned way. (Or the not-so-old-fashioned way, namely crowdfunding, which might be a good fit for what you want to do.)
This email is intended only for the personal and confidential use of the human(s) named above. If intercepted by an extraterrestrial civilization, all opinions expressed in this email are my own and do not necessarily reflect the opinion of mankind as a whole.
Darren Freeman
May 3, 2013, 4:39:44 AM5/3/13
to connected-commu...@googlegroups.com
On Fri, 2013-05-03 at 18:11 +1000, Luke Weston wrote:
> that they'll be stolen, then it's time to take those valuable ideas
> and go out and get VC the old fashioned way. (Or the
> not-so-old-fashioned way, namely crowdfunding, which might be a good
> fit for what you want to do.)
I agree with everything Luke said, apart from the VC bit.
> that they'll be stolen, then it's time to take those valuable ideas
> and go out and get VC the old fashioned way. (Or the
> not-so-old-fashioned way, namely crowdfunding, which might be a good
> fit for what you want to do.)
You should aim to bootstrap as far as you can get, before going to an
angel or VC. VCs expect some form of business that is basically ready to
scale up with an established market. Angels will invest in a rough
concept, but they expect so much equity that they work out vastly more
expensive than most other forms of finance.
And, neither will invest in anything that is meant to help people
without making a competitive return on their investment. With risk there
must be reward. If 95% of ventures fail, then the one that succeeds must
make back 20x the investment just for them to break-even. And in
reality, they aim to make more than parking their money in the share
market, so that's 10-20% p.a. for a very low risk investment and >>20x
over five years for a blue sky project. How much they make depends on
the exit value of the business, so it had better be high-growth. I doubt
that servicing the disability market is going to be tempting enough.
Finally, angels and VCs will universally require that the company be
made public at the end so that they can exit, which means if you are
genuinely paranoid about how the technology will be used, well you'll be
locked into being a shareholder alongside whoever wants to buy in and
potentially take control of the company in a few years.
To justify my statements regarding bootstrapping, check out the book,
"Bootstrap to Billions" by Dileep Rao:
http://www.amazon.com/Bootstrap-Billions-Entrepreneurs-Companies-Scratch/dp/0980047722
And for the bit about people not investing in anything other than
profit, read the book I already recommended, "The Power of Unreasonable
People". It is possible to find social venture capital, but not in the
usual places. But it sounds like you are starting a social venture and
should read this excellent book before agreeing with everyone on here
that you need to think of this as a business even if it's not one that
is motivated by profit. It should at least be motivated by still
existing in ten years!
Have fun,
Darren
Andy Gelme
May 3, 2013, 4:52:40 AM5/3/13
to connected-commu...@googlegroups.com
hi All,
On 2013-05-3 18:11 , Luke Weston wrote:
> you can deliver a software system with very little need to spend any
> money.
Only if you have figured out how to run software without any underlying
hardware and no communications / administrative / operational costs to
keep it going.
Yes, I know you can deploy a standalone Android App for no charge (as
one example), but that is one specific type of software deployment
(albeit a potentially lucrative one). There are many other types of
software deployment / systems solutions that require real money to pull
off successfully. Proper web sites with real traffic and significant
amounts of data ... do cost.
You need to know what the problem is, as well as the proposed solution,
before generalizations like "software costs little to deploy" can be
applied to a specific case.
On 2013-05-3 18:11 , Luke Weston wrote:
> you can deliver a software system with very little need to spend any
> money.
hardware and no communications / administrative / operational costs to
keep it going.
Yes, I know you can deploy a standalone Android App for no charge (as
one example), but that is one specific type of software deployment
(albeit a potentially lucrative one). There are many other types of
software deployment / systems solutions that require real money to pull
off successfully. Proper web sites with real traffic and significant
amounts of data ... do cost.
You need to know what the problem is, as well as the proposed solution,
before generalizations like "software costs little to deploy" can be
applied to a specific case.
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