Turn an old PC into an epic router

[AnonymousChen]

Hey there

Here is something that I would like to share that I found on Youtube

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=Q0JFfpG4BWI

[Andy Gelme]

hi Richard,

On 2013-05-9 17:58 , AnonymousChen wrote:
> Here is something that I would like to share that I found on Youtube
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=Q0JFfpG4BWI

Using a PC provides you with a pretty powerful router/firewall (in terms
of CPU grunt, large memory and flexibility).

A while ago (1997), when old 486 PCs started to being dumped as junk ...
many hackers started using them as a router/firewall, by striping them
down (removing all extraneous stuff including power consuming spinning
hard drives). These PCs booted Linux off a floppy drive and ran
entirely in RAM. A running Linux system on a 1.44 Mb floppy !

This was known as the Linux Router Project (LRP) ...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linux_Router_Project

However, there are some disadvantages ...

- Consumes relatively lots of power
- Eventually you'll have a failure and you need to keep a second large
replacement PC ready

Anything using a spinning hard disk is also likely to fail more often.

These days, cheap (around $50) off-the-shelf routers running OpenWRT (or
similar) have become popular because they overcome most of the
limitations experienced running a complete operating system and bulky
hardware ... just for a router / firewall (unless you are running much
more than a consumer / home network). An OpenWRT router is quite small,
consumes less power, has no moving parts ... and is easy to keep a few
spares lying around. They may also include 4 Ethernet ports and
wireless (which is less common on an old PC) ... and are easily
expandable via USB (add printer, USB disk, 3G modem, etc).

Not that I want to discourage you playing with Unix systems (especially
BSD based), learning about networking, routing and firewalls (that's all
good). Just pointing out that the typical solution these days using
purpose-built (off-the-shelf) routers running OpenWRT is also a good
place to start.

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[Dave Chanter]

I never got around to it but for the longest time I was going to get an old PC and install Smoothwall on it. Not sure how they stack up.

http://www.smoothwall.org/

http://www.pfsense.org/

[Greg Nash]

pfsense is great, I've done a few of these for clients.

 

If you want something a little less technical with a nicer web interface I recommend taking a look at the Astaro (now owned by Sophos) "unified threat management gateway".. this also gets an award for its cool name.

 

but if you want the best then go with pfsense because BSD :)

[AnonymousChen]

Hey Andy

Just letting you know I have been fiddling with OpenWRT router but some of us want more performance and better firewall, you know. I do understand that it does consume lots of power that's why maybe getting  something like an old or Chinese no brand hacked smart phones or a Raspberry Pi and run Pfsense

[Joshua Mesilane]

If you want a cheap and powerful firewall, get yourself a RouterBoard/Mikrotik. If you want a server then get a server. Anything that tries to be both will ultimately fail to serve the purpose in the long run.

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0416 039 082

http://www.zindello.com.au/

jo...@zindello.com.au

On 11/05/2013, at 21:09, AnonymousChen <iownu...@gmail.com> wrote:

Hey Andy

Just letting you know I have been fiddling with OpenWRT router but some of us want more performance and better firewall, you know. I do understand that it does consume lots of power that's why maybe getting  something like an old or Chinese no brand hacked smart phones or a Raspberry Pi and run Pfsense

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[Lemming]

HP actually make a series of x86 based thin clients that are awesome for making routers out of.

The one I have is a t5730, it's based around an AMD sempron 2100+.

1GHz passively cooled cpu running a whole 9W.

You can put upto 2GB of RAM in it, it comes with a 1GB PATA Disk on Module (basically a slow SSD)

It has onboard gigglebit network, a Mini PCIe slot that can be loaded with a WiFi card and if you get the "expansion chassis"  you can add a PCI or PCIe 1x slot to it.

The t5730 runs off 12v, the adaptor it comes with is rated for 50W, but I have measured mine running PFSense using a whopping 12W.

Completely passive, no moving parts so no noise and MTBF should be pretty huge.

See here for more details about the various models http://www.parkytowers.me.uk/thin/hp/index.shtml

We currently have a t5740 working as our router for home, because it has a SATA port that you can run a hard drive off of, which we are using for caching and logging.

Both these are fairly readily available from ebay, I've seen t5730's with the expansion chassis and PSU go for less than $100

On Thursday, 9 May 2013 17:58:02 UTC+10, AnonymousChen wrote:

[Ben Lyall]

On Saturday, May 11, 2013 9:09:32 PM UTC+10, AnonymousChen wrote:

Hey Andy

Just letting you know I have been fiddling with OpenWRT router but some of us want more performance and better firewall, you know. I do understand that it does consume lots of power that's why maybe getting  something like an old or Chinese no brand hacked smart phones or a Raspberry Pi and run Pfsense

If you're after more performance and a better firewall, there is no way you'd use a hacked smart phone or a Raspberry Pi.  For a router or firewall, you want something to run at wire level type speeds, and both of those platforms are as close to useless for that type of task.  For a start you really need two interfaces, and I'm not sure on which smart phone that is possible, unless you plan on sending all your data over 3G/LTE?  On a Raspberry Pi, the network interface uses USB, and any additional interface that you'd also need, would have to use USB as well.  Not ideal for a router type setup.

If you're thinking a mobile router that you can take with you, sure, why not, but certainly not as something that has more power than an actual router running OpenWRT or similar.

Ben. 

[Toby Corkindale]

On 9 May 2013 19:03, Andy Gelme <an...@geekscape.org> wrote:
[snip]

> However, there are some disadvantages ...
> - Consumes relatively lots of power

Do not underestimate just how much power an older desktop-class PC
will use over the course of a year.. it will be several hundred
dollars of electricity. As such, it's worth spending money on a
higher-efficiency power supply and components. They'll be higher
quality and last longer, and save money in the long run.

I've also found that Australian summers can really knacker machines
that are left running at home on hot days, especially if they're full
of hot disks and the case fans have become clogged with dust.
Low-power devices are better because less power = less heat.

-T

--
Turning and turning in the widening gyre
The falcon cannot hear the falconer
Things fall apart; the center cannot hold
Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world

[Jacob Gillies]

Slight tangent but relevant for the power cost factor...

I just moved my file server from an E8400 based old desktop rig into a HP N40L on special for $199

Some rough calculation has me paying for the N40L in about a year just on the power savings alone (based on 24/7 on, 25% heavy use), 

let alone the fact that its a piece of hardware that works so much better as a file server than my custom rig (quieter, dosen't bsod), saving me alot of time.

For anyone interested im running it with the stock 2 gig ram, a 3tb raid 1 setup and OpenMediaVault installed on the included 250G HDD.

Has been a dream to setup, really good piece of kit.

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[Jacob Gillies]

Just to be clear, i love the idea of re-purposing old hardware whenever possible and the above is a great exercise/project... need to count all costs to for a permanent install though

[Clifford Heath]

I'm just in the process of replacing my desktop (which also functions
as file server, print server, non-production web server) with a mini-ITX
PC - a Zotac AD06 Z-box. It will have 8GB Ram and 64GB SD, with
all non-system storage on a USB3 dual-3.5" drive dock.
I'll let you know how it goes.

If you want a router that does more than is feasible with re-purposed
WiFi units, one of these mini-ITX PCs would be a good option. They're
low-power and have a full range of connectors. Many are also fanless,
especially the Atom-based ones. They've easily got enough grunt to
serve as media stations too.

Clifford Heath.

[Greg Nash]

+1 to this... I run an N40L as a homeserver which is perfect thanks to the 4xHDD bay RAID options and they have an iLO option too (and so cheap!) but a little light on CPU if you want to play with virtualisation... Megabuy usually runs special on them, the current model is the N54L (HP proliant Microserver). You could make it into a pretty awesome firewall but best suited to a NAS type device.

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