"New" labaki node is up!

[Loosely Rigorous]

Yello!

I figure this is somewhat newsworthy, just to give a sense we’ve

accomplished something. :P

In the day of the meeting we had decided to move the uocradio node

to labaki “jurisdiction”. It can now officially be found at 10.176.8.0/24,

a subnet graciously provided by aliendna51!

Ok, I may be lying, it was akin to a hostile takeover, but I think (hopefully)

he won’t mind too much.

- looselyrigorous
PGP: 5E98 CBF2 4498 1991 4A41  5252 E63A 5B38 3165 BD72

[Μανούσος Πουλινάκης]

Shouldn't we also change the node name & ssid from *.uocradio.node.her.wn to something relevant?

--
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[Loosely Rigorous]

The FQDN would be somewhere along the lines of:

wifi-manoussos.fk.labaki.node.her.wn

I took out “to” from “tolabaki” because these fdqn’s are unwieldy

as it is, and I just added a subdomain there.

- looselyrigorous
PGP: 5E98 CBF2 4498 1991 4A41  5252 E63A 5B38 3165 BD72

Για να απεγγραφείτε απ' αυτή την ομάδα και να σταματήσετε να λαμβάνετε μηνύματα ηλεκτρονικού ταχυδρομείου απ' αυτή, στείλτε ένα μήνυμα ηλεκτρονικού ταχυδρομείου στη διεύθυνση connect-herakl...@googlegroups.com.

[George Kaklamanos]

The hackerspace's name is "τοLabάκι". So there is "tolabaki.gr", "tolabaki.her.wn", but "fk.labaki.node.her.wn"? I think removing it doesn't make any significant difference and is just inconsistent 🤔. If we have a problem with the length we should discuss it in a meeting to find a more generic and appropriate way to deal with it than finding smaller usernames :P

Also, we agreed that using ".node.her.wn" has a specific purpose and it's ok to be large, do you guys think we need to change it? If we need to find smaller names we could use something like ".n.her.wn" and cut parts of the node's name, i.e. "manoussos" instead of "wifi-manoussos", since it's obvious that it's a wifi access point :P (I'm not sure about the naming scheme other nodes have, from what I remember not everyone name their antennae the same way?)

🤔

On Wed, 2018-02-14 at 09:33 +0200, Loosely Rigorous wrote:

The FQDN would be somewhere along the lines of:

wifi-manoussos.fk.labaki.node.her.wn

I took out “to” from “tolabaki” because these fdqn’s are unwieldy

as it is, and I just added a subdomain there.

-- 

gkaklas

[Kostis Anagnostopoulos]

Δεν ξέρω αν τίναξε το σωστό ρετ, αλλά χτες που πήγα να αλλάξω το NSs για το hwm.org στον ns0 τουλαμπάκι, μου είπε πως τα org DNs χρειαζονται 2 ΝS τουλάχιστον. 

Γεια Χαρά,

  Κωστής 

--

thumbs on glass

[Μανούσος Πουλινάκης]

Yeah, I'm also not fond of wifi-manoussos ap-manoussos and the like. Let's review the moments of the previous meetings and come up with ideas regarding naming schemes for routers antennas etc. 

--

[i...@danmilon.me]

Agree about tolabaki and consistency.

--
Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.

[George Kiagiadakis]

Just trick it and enter the same one twice. You can name the second one
ns1.tolabaki.gr and use the same IP. It will work, don't worry.

(We don't have a f***ing data center to host multiple DNSs...)

Thanks!

On 02/18/2018 11:05 AM, Kostis Anagnostopoulos wrote:
> Δεν ξέρω αν τίναξε το σωστό ρετ, αλλά χτες που πήγα να αλλάξω το NSs για

> το hwm.org <http://hwm.org> στον ns0 τουλαμπάκι, μου είπε πως τα org DNs

[George Kiagiadakis]

Oh not this discussion again :P
I remember this specific topic was very heated once upon a time...
But bring it on... 😈😈

On 02/18/2018 11:08 AM, Μανούσος Πουλινάκης wrote:
> Yeah, I'm also not fond of wifi-manoussos ap-manoussos and the like.
> Let's review the moments of the previous meetings and come up with ideas
> regarding naming schemes for routers antennas etc. 
>
> 2018-02-18 10:09 GMT+02:00 George Kaklamanos <gka...@tolabaki.gr

> <mailto:gka...@tolabaki.gr>>:

>
> The hackerspace's name is "τοLabάκι". So there is "tolabaki.gr

> <http://tolabaki.gr>", "tolabaki.her.wn", but

[Kostis Anagnostopoulos]

I got it working with `ns1.tolabaki.gr` as you write in the - strangely, i cannot query this DN. 

But i found it here: https://awebfactory.online/tolabaki.gr.html

Anyhow, the domain in on you now.

Best,

  Kostis

[George Kaklamanos]

Personally I don't have a problem with the ".node.her.wn" domains, as they are there specifically to express the network's/node's hierarchy, not to be easily remembered or typed frequently by a user, but especially for tolabaki I don't think cutting two letters from the name really helps :P

I think that the wifi-* and ap-* cleanup thing would be nice though :) What about the direction suffix (e.g. "-se"), is it used by everyone? Would we like it to be used by everyone or as long as the nodes' admins know the names it doesn't matter? We should probably discuss this in a meeting though (and BTW document it in the wiki?)

On Sun, 2018-02-18 at 12:12 +0200, George Kiagiadakis wrote:

Oh not this discussion again :P
I remember this specific topic was very heated once upon a time...
But bring it on... 😈😈

-- 

gkaklas

[George Kiagiadakis]

Wait, what do you mean you found it there?
The IP address there is wrong. It's from our previous server.
The new IP is:

ns0.tolabaki.gr. 86400 IN A 185.45.113.20

Now, ns1.tolabaki.gr doesn't exist, but it doesn't matter anyway because
the upper level DNS uses the IP address to get to the server hosting the
lower level DNS, so it will happily ignore the non-existent hostname.
I'll add it though, just for the sake of making things clear in the future.

On 02/18/2018 12:33 PM, Kostis Anagnostopoulos wrote:
> I got it working with `ns1.tolabaki.gr <http://ns1.tolabaki.gr>` as you

> write in the - strangely, i cannot query this DN. 
> But i found it here: https://awebfactory.online/tolabaki.gr.html
>
> Anyhow, the domain in on you now.
>
> Best,
>   Kostis
>
> On 18 February 2018 at 12:12, George Kiagiadakis <gki...@tolabaki.gr

> <mailto:gki...@tolabaki.gr>> wrote:
>
> Oh not this discussion again :P
> I remember this specific topic was very heated once upon a time...
> But bring it on... 😈😈
>
> On 02/18/2018 11:08 AM, Μανούσος Πουλινάκης wrote:
> > Yeah, I'm also not fond of wifi-manoussos ap-manoussos and the like.
> > Let's review the moments of the previous meetings and come up with ideas
> > regarding naming schemes for routers antennas etc. 
> >
> > 2018-02-18 10:09 GMT+02:00 George Kaklamanos <gka...@tolabaki.gr <mailto:gka...@tolabaki.gr>

> > <mailto:gka...@tolabaki.gr <mailto:gka...@tolabaki.gr>>>:

> connect-herakl...@googlegroups.com
> <mailto:connect-heraklion%2Bunsu...@googlegroups.com>.

> Για περισσότερες επιλογές, επισκεφτείτε τη διεύθυνση

> https://groups.google.com/d/optout <https://groups.google.com/d/optout>.

>
>
> --
> Λάβατε αυτό το μήνυμα επειδή έχετε εγγραφεί στην ομάδα "Heraklion
> Wireless Metropolitan Network" των Ομάδων Google.
> Για να απεγγραφείτε απ' αυτή την ομάδα και να σταματήσετε να λαμβάνετε
> μηνύματα ηλεκτρονικού ταχυδρομείου απ' αυτή, στείλτε ένα μήνυμα
> ηλεκτρονικού ταχυδρομείου στη διεύθυνση

> connect-herakl...@googlegroups.com
> <mailto:connect-herakl...@googlegroups.com>.

[z)]

+1 for long, consistent FQDNs.

(No strong opinion, just my personal preference: I almost never have to type the FQDNs. So I don't mind if they are long. But I often need to read them for debugging. So explicitness helps me. Sometimes I'd like to DNS query to find an IP, so consistency is key. But because we don't have very good FQDN consistency [.node. or not / wifi- or ap- or none], I usually end up to use nMap to find the IPs - or my bookmarks... ;-) )

z)

PS: Maybe shorter FQDNs for "public" services could be provided upon request to people willing to maintain such sites. [Eg. search.her.wn or games.her.wn ]

[Orfeas Kalipolitis]

That sounds like a really good solution!

[Loosely Rigorous]

Hmm, I guess I will concede the point about “tolabaki”, the consistency argument

is more appealing than saving a few characters (although I would ask that the

importance of needing to type less stuff to do more things not be discounted!!!)

(Also canonically following the fk.tolabaki.node.her.wn it should be expected that

the CSD node will end up being csd.tolabaki.node.her.wn. tolabaki.her.wn may be

used as a service specific domain, in a similar way as Jann suggested)

In most cases for me as well, I don’t have to actually type the whole FQDN,

(hail {zsh,browser} history). Now as for the domain hierarchy situation, at the

risk of sounding redundant, I will say that whatever our decisions end up being,

we have to be consistent in implementing them.

As for the whole {wifi,ap}- situation. Ughhhhhhh. Let’s talk about it I guess. It doesn’t

seem to me like there is a good solution to this problem. Using NSWE notation is just

not intuitive even though it’s more accurate, and using the connection’s other end as a

name is also somewhat mistaken considering many people can connect to one antenna.

- looselyrigorous
PGP: 5E98 CBF2 4498 1991 4A41  5252 E63A 5B38 3165 BD72

[Μανούσος Πουλινάκης]

OCD FTW!

Personally I'm good with the *.node.her.wn concept, as well as (service).her.wn. 
I also like the *.fk.tolabaki.her.wn and *.csd.tolabaki.her.wn. 

I am not fond of the 'wifi' & 'antenna' names because:

• wifi is generic (access point, client, laptop, mobile device, everything is wifi)
  
• an antenna is a passive thing. it doesn't have logic.
  some of ours have logic physically attached to them, and some don't. but none the less it's a seperate block in the chain.

The way I see it, we have the following cases on a per node basis:

1. Point to point connection (one access point connected to one wireless station and vice versa)
   
2. Access point (expected to have more than one clients, no DHCP running)
   
3. Access point (as above, with DHCP running - clients being subnets of the node)
4. Client
5. Combination of the above
   
6. Multiple combinations of the above (ie more than one P2P connections and/or more than one ap available - for example my node)
   

With these in mind, I suggest the following:

case 1:

link.(yournamehere).node.her.wn
link.(othernamehere).node.her.wn

break;

case 2:

ap.(yournamehere).node.her.wn
break;

case 3:

hotspot.(yournamehere).node.her.wn

break;

case 4:

ws.(yournamehere).node.her.wn

//ws stands for wireless station

break;

case 5:

link.(yournamehere).node.her.wn

ap.(yournamehere).node.her.wn

hotspot.(yournamehere).node.her.wn

ws.(yournamehere).node.her.wn

break;

case 6:

link[-(othernamehere)].(yournamehere).node.her.wn

ap[-{N|NE|E|SE|S|SW|W|NW}].(yournamehere).node.her.wn

hotspot[-{N|NE|E|SE|S|SW|W|NW}].(yournamehere).node.her.wn
ws[-(othernamehere)].(yournamehere).node.her.wn

break;

If link is annoying you (because it has 2 more characters) we can go with wl (wireless link) instead.
Same goes for hs (hotspot). Hotspot is open for debate, as it implies internet access. Redundant? Alt: Coldspot?

Regarding routers:

• Since they can be multifunctional (ie running public services), I guess we can be creative.
  
  
• If they are plainly doing what they are supposed to do, and for lack of creativity
  router.(yournamehere).node.her.wn is the obvious choice.
  
  
• In case routing is implemented on the wireless device: 
• Create a CNAME record so that it responds to both
  router.(yournamehere).her.wn and ws.(yournamehere).her.wn
  with router being the A record, and ws the CNAME record.
• Append a r to the device name (ie wsr.(yournamehere).node.her.wn).
• None of the above.
  I think this all comes down to what we decide has the most value for us: forward dns lookup or traceroute?

PS. wl was an afterthought and I'm begining to like more than link
PS2. As z) said, no strong opinion (just OCD).

PS3. I feel like I just re-invented the wheel. If  you think I'm stating the obvious, disregard my message, or keep it as reference/summary. I've spent 4 hours thinking of this and now I will click send because if I don't I WILL COME UP WITH MORE DAMN IT.

Για να απεγγραφείτε απ' αυτή την ομάδα και να σταματήσετε να λαμβάνετε μηνύματα ηλεκτρονικού ταχυδρομείου απ' αυτή, στείλτε ένα μήνυμα ηλεκτρονικού ταχυδρομείου στη διεύθυνση connect-heraklion+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.

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--
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