轉載：Mozilla Suite（SeaMonkey）首次非官方會議全文
R
Suite（開發代號：SeaMonkey）的官方開發，改為集中研發
Firefox（內地訳名：火狐）瀏覽器。然而，不少 Mozilla
Suite 的支持者並不同意 The Mozilla Foundation
的觀點，這些「死硬派」決定擔負起延續 Mozilla Suite
的不死身的使命，以社區非官方的形式，繼續
Mozilla（SeaMonkey）的開發。
以下是昨天首次 SeaMonkey 非官方會議全文，會議主席為
Alex "WeirdAl" Vincent。
Mar 16 03:00:25 <WeirdAl> Ladies and gentlemen, could I have a few
minutes of silence please?
Mar 16 03:01:05 <WeirdAl> Welcome, everyone, to our first official
Mozilla Application Suite Supporters meeting.
Mar 16 03:02:01 <WeirdAl> This meeting is about helping us figure out
manpower issues more than anything else going forward with the Suite
release that we will eventually do.
Mar 16 03:02:43 <WeirdAl> A couple ground rules: (1) There are a lot
of people here, so let's keep the comments respectful. With about a
dozen half-ops and ops, this channel is moderated.
Mar 16 03:03:10 --> Nord0 (chat...@02-203.150.popsite.net) has joined
#seamonkey
Mar 16 03:03:29 <WeirdAl> (2) As I stated in the original post calling
for this meeting, suggestions towards name and version number of our
product will not be tolerated.
Mar 16 03:03:51 <Asa> Call it FoopyFish!!!
Mar 16 03:03:59 --- biesi is now known as biesi-away
Mar 16 03:03:59 <WeirdAl> Asa: I'm serious.
Mar 16 03:04:05 <Asa> :-)
Mar 16 03:04:05 --- doronHome is now known as doron
Mar 16 03:04:31 <KaiRo> Asa: no parrot talk ;-)
Mar 16 03:04:32 <WeirdAl> That said, I'd like to nominate thebot as our
secretary for this meeting
Mar 16 03:04:37 <doron> I thought we agreed on "god"
Mar 16 03:05:03 <WeirdAl> ... and Hendikins has graciously volunteered
to summarize this meeting for us at some later point.
Mar 16 03:05:38 <WeirdAl> So, allow me please to introduce Chris
Thomas, one of the members of our new "drivers" team for the Suite.
CTho?
Mar 16 03:05:56 <CTho> Hi
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Mar 16 03:06:26 <CTho> Our other drivers are Neil, biesi, IanN, and
KaiRo
Mar 16 03:06:51 <WeirdAl> :) If anyone has a beef, the buck stops
there :)
Mar 16 03:06:53 <KaiRo> see
http://wiki.mozilla.org/wiki/SeaMonkey:Project_Organization for the
list of drivers
Mar 16 03:06:58 * Asa doesn't like the label, "drivers".
Mar 16 03:07:06 <CTho> Asa: "Suite Drivers"
Mar 16 03:07:23 <doron> call them "racers"
Mar 16 03:07:25 <Asa> all other "drivers" labels are official Mozilla
titles.
Mar 16 03:07:29 <KaiRo> Asa: we can change the label at some time, it's
the project and release management team
Mar 16 03:07:35 <Asa> OK.
Mar 16 03:07:35 <WeirdAl> Asa: a rose, by any other name. As has
already been established, we haven't been doing this very long. Give
us time to adopt new names. :)
Mar 16 03:07:58 <WeirdAl> All right -- thanks CTho.
Mar 16 03:08:26 <KaiRo> Asa: we haven't found a better name yet... I'd
be glad to have one
Mar 16 03:08:32 <WeirdAl> Now that we've gotten that out of the way,
I'd like to open up the floor/channel to general discussion.
Mar 16 03:08:50 <Asa> I'll take that as my "to-do" item -- to give you
all a great name.
Mar 16 03:09:08 <JustinArthur> If no one has an immediate topic, I
would like to introduce a few bugzilla-related items to the discussion.
Mar 16 03:09:13 <rkaa> swimmers?
Mar 16 03:09:15 <Asa> So you all want a brief outline of how I think
things should proceed?
Mar 16 03:09:17 <woo> WeirdAl: I thought from the agenda that
determining drivers would happen hear.
Mar 16 03:09:24 <Asa> rkaa: yeah, I was thinking aquatic theme too
Mar 16 03:09:24 <woo> .. here.
Mar 16 03:09:53 <rkaa> and bug-reporters could be called "drowners"..
;)
Mar 16 03:09:54 <stefan_h> JustinArthur: that seems like a good topic
Mar 16 03:09:58 <WeirdAl> woo: a slight miscommunication on my part
(and yes, I know it looks bad). The decision on drivers was made
without my knowledge (I was away all weekend)
Mar 16 03:10:02 <Asa> rkaa "divers" ;-)
Mar 16 03:10:04 <WeirdAl> JustinArthur: you have the floor
Mar 16 03:10:11 <rkaa> divers... of course!
Mar 16 03:10:42 <FUBAr> flyers...
Mar 16 03:10:42 <JustinArthur> Alright, thanks. The Mozilla Foundation
has been nice enough to allow us to continue to use their BugZilla to
drive our bug and requirement reporting and resolution capabilities.
Mar 16 03:10:53 <KaiRo> Asa: an outline of what you think how we should
proceed would efinately be nice
Mar 16 03:11:11 <Asa> JustinArthur: yes :)
Mar 16 03:11:13 <Asa> we love you.
Mar 16 03:11:30 <Asa> KaiRo: after justin
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Mar 16 03:12:09 <WeirdAl> Justin: ... :)
Mar 16 03:12:14 <JustinArthur> To support the ongoing development of
[SeaMonkey], we will need to look at the current "Mozilla Application
Suite" product infrastructure in BugZilla and adapt it to whatever new
development scheme we choose to take on. For the moment, since this
meeting is about manpower, we need to discuss a few people things.
Mar 16 03:12:35 <gandalf> do we have any long-term goals summerized?
What's a target of Suite? Kids? Companies? ISPs? Geeks?
Mar 16 03:12:45 <WeirdAl> gandalf: we're not at that stage yet :)
Mar 16 03:12:49 <Asa> gandalf: let's let justin finish firs
Mar 16 03:12:57 <-- biesi-win has quit (Ping timeout)
Mar 16 03:13:02 * gandalf hides ashamed
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1.0.1/20050223])
Mar 16 03:13:33 <JustinArthur> The first thing is the assignments and
QA. Everyone interested should take a gander here -
https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/describecomponents.cgi?product=Mozilla%20Application%20Suite
Mar 16 03:13:35 <Asa> irc meetings are hard. don't be ashamed
Mar 16 03:13:55 * Callek raises his hand politely.
Mar 16 03:13:55 <-- toni (chat...@pD9511379.dip.t-dialin.net) has
left #seamonkey
Mar 16 03:14:04 * WeirdAl grins @ Callek and recognizes him
Mar 16 03:14:04 <JustinArthur> Go ahead, Callek.
Mar 16 03:14:09 <Asa> JustinArthur: mind if I break in? I think you all
should drastically reduce the number of components.
Mar 16 03:14:17 <WeirdAl> Asa: hold that thought please
Mar 16 03:14:34 <JustinArthur> Asa, that's definetely something to be
brought up. Just a minute though.
Mar 16 03:14:39 <Callek> JustinArthur, /me chuckles and echoe's Asa's
though, with a note that we may want to cover the actual components
prior to assigning owners
Mar 16 03:14:49 <Callek> s/though/thought/
Mar 16 03:15:01 <Asa> I also think we should move on Gerv's plan to
close bugs that we've determined by statisitcal analysis to likely be
unhelpful.
Mar 16 03:15:13 <mvl> shouldn't owners tkae the general for of assigned
to nobody, qa to a general address
Mar 16 03:15:13 <JustinArthur> Yes, I agree. I do not want for us to
turn the discussion into an assignment party. I'm just going to give a
quick update.
Mar 16 03:15:21 <Asa> cool.
Mar 16 03:15:21 <mvl> ?
Mar 16 03:16:27 <WeirdAl> Justin: you still have the floor :)
Mar 16 03:16:31 <JustinArthur> All of the current SeaMonkey-related
component owners have been emailed asking whether or not they still
have an active interestin in their component and the SeaMonkey project
and have been told that their component will be re-assigned to either a
group-watchable email address or a particularily interested member of
the SeaMonkey community.
Mar 16 03:16:47 * WeirdAl cringes
Mar 16 03:16:49 <JustinArthur> s/interestin/interest\ in/
Mar 16 03:16:55 <anne> I think it would be better if both QA and
default assignee were fake adddresses. People interested in doing QA
for that componenet can set their settings to follow that particular
component. That way components are not bound to people.
Mar 16 03:16:59 <WeirdAl> um, excuse me?
Mar 16 03:17:12 <WeirdAl> WILL be reassigned?
Mar 16 03:17:21 <JustinArthur> Sorry, will be re-assigned at their
request.
Mar 16 03:17:41 <WeirdAl> okay, so they still have the option of being
module owners?
Mar 16 03:17:47 <JustinArthur> Of course.
Mar 16 03:17:53 <WeirdAl> ok :)
Mar 16 03:18:08 <doron> most of those components will go away when we
merge with toolkit anyways
Mar 16 03:18:11 <mvl> module owner != default assignee
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Mar 16 03:18:43 <WeirdAl> doron: something that will probably happen
after our initial release, so we'll keep it on the table for now :)
Mar 16 03:18:54 <KaiRo> JustinArthur: 1) who did write out that mail?
2) were they told to report back in any timeframe?
Mar 16 03:19:03 <FUBAr> new toolkit = bye bye old componentts
Mar 16 03:19:28 <KaiRo> FUBAr, doron: that's not clear, and we'll
address that when the time has come
Mar 16 03:19:36 <JustinArthur> Chase Phillips, who some of you may
remember as the SeaMonkey build config czar has re-assigned Build
Config's QA to a general group and requests "If you know of people in
the SeaMonkey community that are interested in working on build config
bugs, can you help the Mozilla project by getting them to join the
build-...@core.bugs watcher group?"
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joined #seamonkey
Mar 16 03:20:11 <JustinArthur> KaiRo, I sent out the email (you were
CC'ed IIRC), they were not given a time frame I'm afriad.
Mar 16 03:20:40 <KaiRo> JustinArthur: thanks. I just wanted to know :)
Mar 16 03:20:41 <stefan_h> JustinArthur: Did you also asked the QA
contacts?
Mar 16 03:21:02 --- mcsmurf is now known as IRCMonkey9544582
Mar 16 03:21:21 --- IRCMonkey9544582 is now known as mcsmurf_
Mar 16 03:21:43 <Asa> if you all decide to use "fake" accounts for
either owner or QA, please see me about setting those up. We have a
procedure and a format that I'd like to stick to.
Mar 16 03:22:03 <WeirdAl> Asa: that's fair :)
Mar 16 03:22:09 --- mcsmurf_ is now known as mcsmurf
Mar 16 03:22:18 <WeirdAl> JustinArthur: anything else?
Mar 16 03:22:24 <JustinArthur> Callek has just pointed out to me that I
should clarify Chase's perspective in that Chase was referring to ALL
of the build config's not just SeaMonkey's given that buld configs
typically effect more than one project.
Mar 16 03:22:30 <JustinArthur> WeirdAl, yes.
Mar 16 03:22:36 <WeirdAl> the floor is still yours
Mar 16 03:22:39 <-- sp3k has quit (Client exited)
Mar 16 03:23:02 <WeirdAl> Anyone with topics for this meeting, please
/msg me a quick summary
Mar 16 03:23:04 <JustinArthur> Seth Spitzer has requested that all of
his components be re-assigned.
Mar 16 03:23:16 <Asa> (mailnews)
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joined #seamonkey
Mar 16 03:23:29 <FUBAr> rss
Mar 16 03:23:48 <mcsmurf> WeirdAl: heh, i thought the meeting already
started ;)
Mar 16 03:23:52 * Callek quietly scribes
https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/describecomponents.cgi?product=Mozilla%20Application%20Suite
Mar 16 03:24:06 <WeirdAl> mcsmurf: it has, but I want to have a list of
things to cover in the next 30 minutes
Mar 16 03:24:25 <JustinArthur> Neil Rashbrook requests that his
component be re-assigned (specifically requested a group watcher dummy
email address).
Mar 16 03:25:11 <JustinArthur> And that's all I have so far. On the
topic of BugZilla, we should also discuss Triage, but I am not prepared
to lead that discussion myself. Thanks for letting me have the floor.
Mar 16 03:25:27 <WeirdAl> Okay, thanks Justin.
Mar 16 03:25:53 <WeirdAl> on triage, I think that's a subject Asa is
intimately familiar with. Asa, do you have any quick suggestions?
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Mar 16 03:27:31 <Asa> WeirdAl: yes.
Mar 16 03:27:34 <aebrahim> One comment on triage is that you may find
it useful to have a group of Mac users who commit to spending at least
some time triaging Mac bugs.
Mar 16 03:27:41 <aebrahim> Otherwise Mac-only bugs tend to be left
alone.
Mar 16 03:27:47 <Asa> First, Gerv and I have been working on a plan to
clean out bugs that probably aren't worth anyone's time
Mar 16 03:28:07 <Asa> we're doing statistical analysis to determine
which bugs are likely to result in positive action and which ones arent
Mar 16 03:28:19 <Asa> then we'll robo-resolve the ones that aren't
Mar 16 03:28:26 <KaiRo> Asa: nice, cleanup is good for sure
Mar 16 03:28:37 <Asa> that should clean out a lot of the cruft so we
can focus on the ones that are likely to be the most value.
Mar 16 03:28:37 <smontagu> Asa: in one cut, or with warning?
Mar 16 03:28:53 <Asa> smontagu: with a comment (reporters can always
reopen if they disagree)
Mar 16 03:29:27 <jmdesp> asa, while trying to do triaging recently, I
thought of something that would be useful
Mar 16 03:29:27 * smontagu doesn't want a repetition of the recent mass
wontfixing in his component
Mar 16 03:29:34 <Asa> so, that's a good start. The next thing I'd do is
to try to drive remaining Unconfirmed to zero or near zero
Mar 16 03:29:38 <-- Nord0 has quit (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.61 [Mozilla
rv:1.7.5/20041217])
Mar 16 03:29:57 <Asa> that can be tackled in weekly bugday like
activities.
Mar 16 03:30:14 <timelyx> smontagu: you didn't enjoy that flood?
Mar 16 03:30:27 <Asa> I'd also have each of your component teams
watching a query of all incoming bugs each day to knock off the
important and bogus ones.
Mar 16 03:30:28 * timelyx finally recovered from bugmail and is just
above 2000 unread
Mar 16 03:30:42 <WeirdAl> Asa: um, we don't have any component teams
yet ;)
Mar 16 03:30:43 <Asa> finally, I'd work to get real severities and
keywords on all of the confirmed bugs.
Mar 16 03:30:44 * Callek raises his hand politely.
Mar 16 03:30:58 * Callek can wait until asa is done.
Mar 16 03:31:06 * Asa doesn't mind interruptions.
Mar 16 03:31:11 <WeirdAl> Callek?
Mar 16 03:31:16 <timelyx> Asa: should we start enabling whines?
Mar 16 03:31:34 <Asa> timelyx: I think that should be up to you guys.
Mar 16 03:31:39 <Callek> Just wanted to say, with Asa's "Watching a
query" thought, there is whine support enabled in bugzilla.mozilla.org,
currently you need to get a permission to do it.
Mar 16 03:31:55 <CTho> what is "whine"?
Mar 16 03:31:56 * Callek chuckles as he wonders why people blurt out
stuff before him ;-)
Mar 16 03:31:56 <-- paepse has quit (Ping timeout)
Mar 16 03:32:11 <Callek> CTho, whine is when you define a saved query
and Bugzilla will send you an e-mail with its results
Mar 16 03:32:19 <WeirdAl> Anyone have subjects for this meeting, drop
me a /msg
Mar 16 03:32:34 <Callek> CTho, I can send you a copy of one if you
like, (I use it for recently reported bugs)
Mar 16 03:32:36 <biesi_> timelyx, is that 2000 to read, or 2000 "to-do"
ones? ;)
Mar 16 03:32:45 <Asa> OK. so on triage...
Mar 16 03:32:46 <CTho> Callek: no thanks
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Mar 16 03:32:54 * WeirdAl hands the floor back to Asa
Mar 16 03:33:05 <timelyx> biesi-away: that includes at least 1000 to-do
ones
Mar 16 03:33:08 <Asa> the next thing I'd do is to get a nomination
system set up that matches more closely with your plans
Mar 16 03:33:13 <timelyx> beyond that, i'm not sure
Mar 16 03:33:16 <WeirdAl> Asa: please keep it short, we need to start
nominating lead volunteers soon :)
Mar 16 03:33:22 <Asa> and really utilize that to float the most
important bugs to the top.
Mar 16 03:33:40 <Asa> you might also comb the most frequently reported
bugs report regularly for high-profile problems.
Mar 16 03:33:55 <Asa> WeirdAl: sure. I can stop any time.
Mar 16 03:33:58 * Asa is done.
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Mar 16 03:34:11 <CTho> Asa: a voting system like Firefox uses?
Mar 16 03:34:25 <WeirdAl> Asa: I'm sorry to cut you off -- if you need
to expounge, write a blog entry, we'll read it :)
Mar 16 03:34:35 * Callek assumed it was nomination flags ;-)
Mar 16 03:34:45 <Asa> CTho: I don't think that votes are particularly
useful except to guage interest. They tend to aggregate around features
rather than bugs which makes them less useful than you'd hope.
Mar 16 03:35:09 <Asa> Callek: nomination flags are good. you'll want
ones that match your roadmap.
Mar 16 03:35:25 * Asa is done.
Mar 16 03:35:27 <WeirdAl> Okay, if I could have the floor back for a
moment
Mar 16 03:35:33 <gandalf> what about flags? Will we keep same ones?
Mar 16 03:35:40 <WeirdAl> gandalf: too early to tell
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Mar 16 03:35:53 <KaiRo> Asa: we definately want to have a few
good-to-use flags, but we don't know yet for sure which ones. we'll
come back to you when we know
Mar 16 03:35:59 <Asa> gandalf: that's the nomination system. I suspect
you'll want ones that more closely match the roadmap that you've yet to
define.
Mar 16 03:36:19 <WeirdAl> We have 25 minutes left, tops, to wrap up
personnel issues, and we haven't really said anything except who the
drivers are :)
Mar 16 03:36:23 <gandalf> Asa, I'm not talking about flags for bugs,
but for patches
Mar 16 03:36:37 <Asa> gandalf: that will depend on your review process.
Mar 16 03:37:08 <WeirdAl> So, in the next ten minutes, I'd like to
openly hear suggestions for the types of leadership roles you think we
should have.
Mar 16 03:37:35 <Hendikins> Documentation czar required? (No, I'm not
volunteering)
Mar 16 03:38:05 * WeirdAl grins at Hendikins: that's the kind of role
I like to have ;)
Mar 16 03:38:12 <Asa> documentation shouldn't be a primary concern
right now.
Mar 16 03:38:22 <Hendikins> Not yet, but eventually.
Mar 16 03:38:26 <WeirdAl> Asa: I want to hear ideas, not criticisms :)
Mar 16 03:38:28 <Asa> bugs, bug fixers, and release management are your
immediate concerns.
Mar 16 03:38:32 <Asa> WeirdAl: there.
Mar 16 03:38:38 <Hendikins> Not that documentation has ever been a
concern...
Mar 16 03:38:43 * Hendikins hides
Mar 16 03:38:44 <Asa> heh.
Mar 16 03:38:53 <KaiRo> for one thing, we already have a project and
release management team in place (we currently call it "drivers" for
the lack of a better name), see
http://wiki.mozilla.org/wiki/SeaMonkey:Project_Organization
Mar 16 03:38:59 <sven423> A security team is important imho. at least
there should be one after the first release
Mar 16 03:39:06 <gandalf> Some strong leadership on UI
Mar 16 03:39:26 <mcsmurf> sven423: i don't think there will be big
securiy issues?
Mar 16 03:39:30 * WeirdAl would suggest we really do need a QA czar,
and probably a liaison with the Mozilla Foundation
Mar 16 03:39:36 <mconnor> gandalf: isn't that going to continue to be
Neil?
Mar 16 03:39:41 <mcsmurf> sven423: since we don't rewrite everything
Mar 16 03:39:47 <WeirdAl> mcsmurf: no one thought bug 259708 was going
to happen, either... we should consider it
Mar 16 03:39:53 <thebot> WeirdAl: Bug
http://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=259708 cri, --, ---,
bu...@bengoodger.com, RESO FIXED, Trying to save file from data:
protocol wipes every file in target directory not marked read-only
Mar 16 03:40:18 <KaiRo> well, we have an image that we need leadership
on some key areas. what we need to know is who would volunteer for
those "positions"?
Mar 16 03:40:24 <sven423> mcsmurf: there are always security bugs
Mar 16 03:40:25 <gandalf> mconnor: I don't know. I'm just asking for
it. Seamonkey need UI review imho
Mar 16 03:40:29 <mcsmurf> well yes
Mar 16 03:40:39 <mcsmurf> but security bugs are managed by sg group
mostly
Mar 16 03:40:51 * Callek nudges politely.
Mar 16 03:40:51 <mcsmurf> do we need a specific team just for SM code?
Mar 16 03:41:32 <sven423> at least we need someone who is responsible
that the security fixes/updates are delivered to the users
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Mar 16 03:42:14 <ajschult> Kairo: which positions, specifically?
Mar 16 03:42:15 <WeirdAl> sven423: we might. Depending on drivers'
decision, we may (or may not) decide to do security releases. It's too
early to tell, I think.
Mar 16 03:42:34 * WeirdAl hopes no one takes that as an official
position
Mar 16 03:42:42 <Asa> Clearly, Neil is your Module Owner and very
likely the UI czar for Seamonkey. You need some kind of QA leader to
organize triage. You will probably also want to get someone from your
"divers@seamonkey" group to be the primary release coordinator.
Mar 16 03:43:07 <Asa> those are the big three areas that are most
important at this stage.
Mar 16 03:43:41 <WeirdAl> Asa: for once, I utterly agree with you :)
Mar 16 03:43:43 <KaiRo> ajschult: well, I'd be interested if there are
people who have specific areas in mind that they want to lead. when we
have that list, and a list of areas, we'll be able to see the empty
spots
Mar 16 03:43:59 <Asa> Fill those spots first, figure out the rest
later.
Mar 16 03:44:24 <Asa> organization will be forced on you. Don't make it
up where it doesn't need to exist. Start simple.
Mar 16 03:44:25 <WeirdAl> Okay, we're wrapping up this particular part
and moving on to volunteers to fill these positions...
Mar 16 03:44:27 <prometeo> SO who's gonna be the QA leader?
Mar 16 03:44:56 <ajschult> I'll throw my name in for QA
Mar 16 03:44:56 <gandalf> I want to help around l12y issue
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Mar 16 03:45:07 <KaiRo> that is, who would like to be?
Mar 16 03:45:47 <Asa> note, I've already volunteered to be the MoFo
liason to Project Seamonkey. I'd like to have a primary contact point
on your end. That won't require a lot of effort on that person's part
but it would save me having to wonder who to talk with every time
something needs communicating. I've made "who to talk with" for you
guys pretty easy -- me.
Mar 16 03:45:53 <stefan_h> I can help with help/help doc, doing QA
Mar 16 03:46:15 <WeirdAl> Asa: I'd volunteer for our end :)
Mar 16 03:46:25 <prometeo> Before QA, Neil, are you going to accept UI
czar role?
Mar 16 03:46:31 <WeirdAl> ... if drivers approve
Mar 16 03:46:54 <Tomcat> i also can help /help docs and QA on Windows
Mar 16 03:47:10 <Asa> WeirdAl: yeah. that's for you all to figure out,
and it doesn't have to happen immediately. just wanted to bring it up.
Mar 16 03:47:22 <Neil> prometeo: sure
Mar 16 03:47:36 <prometeo> so we have a role filled
Mar 16 03:47:38 <FUBAr> i can take lead under UI design end concep dev
Mar 16 03:47:38 --- [Neil] (ne...@moz-8A2C3F43.adsl.newnet.co.uk) : Neil
Rashbrook
Mar 16 03:47:38 --- [Neil] is a registered nick
Mar 16 03:47:38 --- [Neil] @#seamonkey @#nt3.51 #developers #mozilla
Mar 16 03:47:38 --- [Neil] mecha.mozilla.org :Silicon Valley California
Mar 16 03:47:38 --- [Neil] idle 00:00:17, signon: Tue Mar 15 19:46:07
Mar 16 03:47:38 --- [Neil] End of WHOIS list.
Mar 16 03:47:38 <prometeo> :)
Mar 16 03:47:43 <mcsmurf> didn't Neil do UI for ages already ;) :) ?
Mar 16 03:47:47 <mvl> Tomcat, stefan_h: does your offer include doing
regular smoketests?
Mar 16 03:47:54 <CTho> mcsmurf: yes, and he's a good person to keep for
that :)
Mar 16 03:47:58 <sp3k> somehow I think it's not who can "do QA" but "be
QA" at this stage
Mar 16 03:48:01 <WeirdAl> Ladies and gentlemen, we need a Quality
Assurance Lead
Mar 16 03:48:08 <sp3k> ^
Mar 16 03:48:08 <opi> Isn't Neil a UI self? ;-)
Mar 16 03:48:10 <Tomcat> mvl: sure
Mar 16 03:48:18 <prometeo> opi: :)
Mar 16 03:48:30 <doron> neil should be the UI person
Mar 16 03:48:32 * WeirdAl notes that the lead might not do much QA, but
really needs to be able to supervise volunteers for QA
Mar 16 03:48:44 * KaiRo wants to take his role in UI and L10n areas as
well... but being a "driver", I guess I'll do quite some project
management stuff
Mar 16 03:48:50 <Asa> We've already got smoketests written out and a
tool for recording results. I'd recommend doing smoktests at least
every other day on every platform you support.
Mar 16 03:48:54 <mcsmurf> a QA lead?
Mar 16 03:48:58 <clfenwi> ajschult volunteered to be QA lead... /me
seconds and asks if there are objections...
Mar 16 03:49:00 >rkaa< Interested in QA Lead?
Mar 16 03:49:05 <stefan_h> mvl: might be able to do it occasionally
Mar 16 03:49:05 * mcsmurf wonders if something like that is really
needed
Mar 16 03:49:07 <WeirdAl> oh, I missed that, sorry :)
Mar 16 03:49:07 <mcsmurf> but ok
Mar 16 03:49:27 <WeirdAl> ajschult: willing to run massive BugDay
efforts jointly with Asa? ;)
Mar 16 03:49:40 <ajschult> sure.
Mar 16 03:49:47 * FUBAr can take lead under User Interface concep and
design dev
Mar 16 03:49:57 <CTho> FUBAr: have you worked on seamonkey in the past?
Mar 16 03:50:02 --- [ajschult]
(ajsc...@pool-129-44-249-215.buff.east.verizon.net) : Andrew Schultz
Mar 16 03:50:02 --- [ajschult] #seamonkey #developers
Mar 16 03:50:02 --- [ajschult] mecha.mozilla.org :Silicon Valley
California
Mar 16 03:50:02 --- [ajschult] idle 00:00:23, signon: Wed Mar 16
01:25:32
Mar 16 03:50:02 --- [ajschult] End of WHOIS list.
Mar 16 03:50:04 <WeirdAl> Okay, the last role Asa recommends is a
release manager -- one of the drivers
Mar 16 03:50:12 <FUBAr> bugzilling
Mar 16 03:50:19 <KaiRo> we don't have to finally decide all positions
here, btw. but we want to have volunteers
Mar 16 03:50:27 <CTho> WeirdAl: Asa: is that not something the drivers
can manage jointly?
Mar 16 03:50:38 <FUBAr> trunc testing
Mar 16 03:50:38 <WeirdAl> CTho: you tell me :)
Mar 16 03:50:58 <CTho> WeirdAl: Asa is the one who knows if the
required tasks are things that *can* be done by multiple people
Mar 16 03:51:03 <Asa> the release manager is the guy that makes sure
everyone is hard at work during the final days of the cycle. s/he will
spend lots of time watching the final bugs on the list, coordinating
with the build folks, making sure release docs are posted, etc.
Mar 16 03:51:04 <KaiRo> CTho: I don't think all drivers will do
smoketests daily
Mar 16 03:51:14 * sp3k guesstimates that someone needs to own
releasing, even if it's group coordinated
Mar 16 03:51:15 <Asa> drivers can't manage it jointly
Mar 16 03:51:30 <Asa> in groups, there is a "he's got it covered"
mentality and it will go undone.
Mar 16 03:51:37 <CTho> ok
Mar 16 03:51:43 <Asa> you'll spend a lot more time in those final steps
without a release manager
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Mar 16 03:51:57 <KaiRo> I think this should be one of drivers
Mar 16 03:52:00 <smontagu> don't underestimate importance of smoketests
(if anybody was)
Mar 16 03:52:04 <CTho> i think that'dbe ok
Mar 16 03:52:17 <Asa> you want someone pulling it all together. if you
have a couple, or even a few, great, but you must hvae one where the
buck stops in case the others aren't active
Mar 16 03:52:29 <CTho> i'd be interested
Mar 16 03:52:42 <big_surfer> quit
Mar 16 03:52:44 <Asa> smontagu: yes. agreed.
Mar 16 03:52:46 <WeirdAl> CTho: you up to it?
Mar 16 03:52:51 --- [CTho] (Ch...@CTHO.RES.cmu.edu) : gaim
Mar 16 03:52:51 --- [CTho] is a registered nick
Mar 16 03:52:51 --- [CTho] %#seamonkey @#nt3.51 #bmo #developers @#umo
#mozilla
Mar 16 03:52:51 --- [CTho] mecha.mozilla.org :Silicon Valley California
Mar 16 03:52:51 --- [CTho] idle 00:00:23, signon: Wed Mar 16 02:20:49
Mar 16 03:52:51 --- [CTho] End of WHOIS list.
Mar 16 03:53:05 --> wariat (war...@pa167.smochowice.sdi.tpnet.pl) has
joined #seamonkey
Mar 16 03:53:09 <CTho> WeirdAl: I can't know for sureyet
Mar 16 03:53:15 <-- big_surfer (chat...@1Cust105.vr1.dtm1.alter.net)
has left #seamonkey
Mar 16 03:53:16 <CTho> gotta run, back in 15 minutes
Mar 16 03:53:16 * KaiRo would like to help in release management but is
happy if someone else of drivers will take the lead there
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has joined #seamonkey
Mar 16 03:53:19 --- CTho is now known as CTho|away
Mar 16 03:53:27 <WeirdAl> KaiRo: Neil's busy ;)
Mar 16 03:53:28 * smontagu doubts if the concept of a "smoketest
blocker" is practicable these days, but it saved our collective ass
many times in the past
Mar 16 03:53:43 <KaiRo> WeirdAl: I know
Mar 16 03:54:23 <KaiRo> OK, but we don't have to stop at that topic
here, as we surley want some driver to di it, and us five can discuss
that further
Mar 16 03:54:31 --- Paper is now known as PaperAway
Mar 16 03:54:50 <KaiRo> it seems that CTho is interested anyways
Mar 16 03:55:02 <Asa> smontagu: it is practical. If it's shared code,
for sure.
Mar 16 03:55:16 <smontagu> Asa: including closing the tree until it's
fixed?
Mar 16 03:55:36 <WeirdAl> KaiRo: can we have a decision on that within
the next couple days?
Mar 16 03:55:43 <Asa> smontagu: if it's shared code then other apps
will be busted too, so yes, closing the tree should happen.
Mar 16 03:55:49 * WeirdAl has one last topic for the meeting
Mar 16 03:56:12 <Asa> smontagu: but not pre-emptive closing. only after
the bug is found and only if it's recent, hence the importance of
regular smoketesting.
Mar 16 03:56:23 <KaiRo> just to state that in here, Mnyromyr has
volunteered for "mail/news, sidebar/searching, chromereg", and MReimer
for maintaining modern theme (we'll see how those ares fit in our
plans)
Mar 16 03:56:34 <KaiRo> WeirdAl: we'll decide on that soon
Mar 16 03:56:45 <WeirdAl> All right, may I have the floor please?
Mar 16 03:57:02 <WeirdAl> Our meeting is almost out of time, so we need
to schedule the next one.
Mar 16 03:57:14 --- CTho|away is now known as CTho
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Mar 16 03:57:33 <WeirdAl> I'm entertaining suggestions
Mar 16 03:57:42 --> RHaase_ (chat...@p50817A03.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
has joined #seamonkey
Mar 16 03:57:42 <MReimer> KaiRo: Thanks!
Mar 16 03:57:43 <Asa> same bat time, same bat channel.
Mar 16 03:57:45 <CTho> (i'm back, went to a different room than i had
planned)
Mar 16 03:57:48 <Asa> next week?
Mar 16 03:57:51 <mcsmurf> same place, same time, next week?
Mar 16 03:57:59 * MReimer didn't know when the right time is to say
that.
Mar 16 03:58:02 <smontagu> how would an hour later suit people?
Mar 16 03:58:05 <-- RHaase_ has quit (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.67 [Mozilla
rv:1.8b/20050305])
Mar 16 03:58:05 <KaiRo> OK with me
Mar 16 03:58:06 <-- RHaase has quit (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.67 [Mozilla
rv:1.8b/20050305])
Mar 16 03:58:09 <CTho> better forme
Mar 16 03:58:17 <prometeo> fine by me
Mar 16 03:58:18 <JustinArthur> A lot of people in the Americas are in
classes at this hour.
Mar 16 03:58:20 <doron> please announce it on planet with a better
title next time, most people have no idea what MASS is
Mar 16 03:58:23 <WeirdAl> smontagu: that might inconvenience me a
touch, but not seriously
Mar 16 03:58:27 <stefan_h> fine with me
Mar 16 03:58:33 <WeirdAl> doron: :D hey, I'm not perfect
Mar 16 03:58:34 <MReimer> A screenshot of a slightly modified modern
skin done by me can be found here:
http://web262.server2.dce4u.de/data/slimmodernshot.png
Mar 16 03:58:38 <mcsmurf> i still don't know what MASS is ;)
Mar 16 03:58:48 * Callek is normally in class from this time until 3
hours after the meeting currently starts
Mar 16 03:58:56 <woo> mcsmurf: it's when you pray!
Mar 16 03:58:58 <Callek> 11am EST to 2pm EST
Mar 16 03:59:03 <Asa> I'd like to propose a couple of names for the
seamonkey "drivers
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#seamonkey
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Mar 16 03:59:10 * Callek was lucky to get spring break now.
Mar 16 03:59:12 <WeirdAl> All right, so the consensus is March 22,
17:00 UTC.
Mar 16 03:59:13 <Asa> how about "divers" or "frogmen"
Mar 16 03:59:13 <mcsmurf> ah that mass ;)
Mar 16 03:59:23 <-- tor_ (t...@pixpat.austin.ibm.com) has left
#seamonkey (Leaving)
Mar 16 03:59:24 <FUBAr> pilots
Mar 16 03:59:24 <WeirdAl> Last call, last call to suggest a new time
Mar 16 03:59:32 <gandalf> tankers
Mar 16 03:59:35 <prometeo> seawolves
Mar 16 03:59:37 <JustinArthur> Asa, I dig those.
Mar 16 03:59:44 <rkaa> pilots is better perhaps.. the diver thingie
might get a little suffocating
Mar 16 03:59:45 <FUBAr> headhunters
Mar 16 03:59:51 <KaiRo> Asa: heh, those sound funny
Mar 16 03:59:54 <Callek> WeirdAl, 00:00 UTC ;-)
Mar 16 04:00:12 * KaiRo beats Callek
Mar 16 04:00:13 <Callek> WeirdAl, seeing how my classes are mid-day I
have no clue a better time for "everyone" ;-)
Mar 16 04:00:14 <WeirdAl> This meeting is CLOSED -- next meeting
scheduled for Tuesday, March 22, 17:00 UTC
Mar 16 04:00:23 <WeirdAl> Thank you everyone for coming!