How I compassionately communicate
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Richard Krzyzanowski
Jul 24, 2012, 12:05:34 AM7/24/12
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For those of you who were in the Beyond Self Sabotage tele-class, this will all be review for you. For those of you who weren't in that one, here is my situation.
I'm gay/bisexual/gender queer (whatever label works best for you, use that one, I don't really care which one. Bottom line, I play with boys and girls.). I was raped when I was five. These are two big things that I have been working on recently. I have also recently come out to my parents. I also told them I was raped. This happened on July 1. At this point, I am kind of regretting going any further than coming out them. This is due to many reasons; the most important/selfish being that they are fucking up my whole situation. I felt like I was doing really well up until I told them. Since I told them, I feel like I have not been progressing as well.
For the week following July 1, I was emailing and texting back and forth with both my mom and dad trying to get them into a place that was okay for them emotionally. I have basically been parenting my parents on top of dealing with my own emotional work. It has been trying to say the least.
On July 8, I was in my kitchen making coffee and my mom walks down and says, "Your father and I had dinner last night."
My response, "That's weird. You guys hate each other."
Mom, "No we don't. We tolerate each other."
ME, "Okay."
Mom, "What are JP's qualifications? Your father found somebody on the internet that deals with male sexual abuse and we want you to talk to him."
Me, "I'm really not comfortable with this. Can we stop?"
Mom, "Sure."
For the sake of fairness, this may not have been the actual conversation, verbatim. This is how I experienced it. Or rather, how five year old Rich experienced it.
So I was really, really, really upset over all of this because it felt to me that my parents were trying to hijack my healing process from me. I felt really violated. I had to leave almost immediately to go to a yoga studio where I work. On my way there, I drove as recklessly as I have driven since I quit drinking. I want to say I was angry, but I'm not sure I was angry. I felt really out of control and upset. Once I got to the studio, I checked in the class. After that, I have a lot of down time to read, look at funny pictures on the internet, or amuse myself in any myriad ways that I can think of. So I decided to send them an email titled, "So it has come to my attention that I need to set some boundaries." I (five year old Rich) spelled out how I (he) felt as best as I (he) could in my (his) upset state and I sent off the email. My mom responded an hour or two later. Her response made me feel even more violated than before. So I went and got a new tattoo. Right on my ankle bone. Because I needed some physical pain to latch onto in order to drown out the emotional pain I was experiencing. I spent the day hanging out with a friend, then I went to another friend's house for a bbq. Where I got accidentally drunk and slept on his couch. I woke up Sunday morning and drove myself home. I was completely consumed by my mom's email from the day before. I couldn't stop thinking about it for the entire length of my ride home. So I decided that I would respond to the email when I got home. I walked in the door and sat down at my computer. My mom was in the kitchen making herself some breakfast. I started writing. Then I just looked up and said, "I got a new tattoo yesterday because I needed to feel enough physical pain to cover the emotional pain I'm having because of what you said."
Mom, "You're just saying that to try to hurt me."
Me, "Fuck you, mom."
Mom, "Fuck you, too. Keep screaming."
Me, "You emotionally raped me yesterday. I very clearly stated that I felt violated and instead of proceeding with understanding, you just kept pushing." (BTW, this is the gist of what I said, I don't remember exactly what it was that I said. Five year old Rich took over and that little fucker was not happy.)
Mom, "but...."
Me, "Shut the fuck up! Don't you dare try to take this away from me!"
Mom, "Can I hug you?"
Me, "No. Don't touch me. Don't talk to me. Don't even look at me. If you care about me in the least bit, you will walk over there, sit the fuck down, and shut the fuck up." (Can you feel the compassion yet?) This is the point where I almost threw up. I was literally dry-heaving. It was horrible. I was crying, though. I count that as a good thing.
So then I wrote an email responding to my mom's email and outlined, in no uncertain terms, what was going to happen. I told them both that I am going to be in control of my process and that if their actions didn't fit with my plan for my process, they would both be removed from my process immediately and completely. At that point, my dad sent an email back that basically said, "When can we sit down to talk about your needs?"
So there is the situation. Here is my response as far as the homework is concerned (regarding my explosion at my mom).
1. Mom, I felt very violated when you told me that you and dad met to talk about me without my knowing about it. I also felt very violated and out of control of my process when you told me that you had decided to find someone else for me to talk to.
2. My experience of the situation is that you and dad are trying to hijack my healing process.
3. As you know, I was raped. This makes me very sensitive regarding control over myself and my life.
4. I would like it if you let me know when you and dad were going to meet to talk about me. I would also like it if you asked me what kind of help I need from you regarding my process.
5. If you and ad meet to talk about me, will you please let me know beforehand? Will you please come to me and ask me what my needs are regarding my healing process?
Peace and Love,
Rich
--
'Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming-----WOW---What a ride!!!'
I'm gay/bisexual/gender queer (whatever label works best for you, use that one, I don't really care which one. Bottom line, I play with boys and girls.). I was raped when I was five. These are two big things that I have been working on recently. I have also recently come out to my parents. I also told them I was raped. This happened on July 1. At this point, I am kind of regretting going any further than coming out them. This is due to many reasons; the most important/selfish being that they are fucking up my whole situation. I felt like I was doing really well up until I told them. Since I told them, I feel like I have not been progressing as well.
For the week following July 1, I was emailing and texting back and forth with both my mom and dad trying to get them into a place that was okay for them emotionally. I have basically been parenting my parents on top of dealing with my own emotional work. It has been trying to say the least.
On July 8, I was in my kitchen making coffee and my mom walks down and says, "Your father and I had dinner last night."
My response, "That's weird. You guys hate each other."
Mom, "No we don't. We tolerate each other."
ME, "Okay."
Mom, "What are JP's qualifications? Your father found somebody on the internet that deals with male sexual abuse and we want you to talk to him."
Me, "I'm really not comfortable with this. Can we stop?"
Mom, "Sure."
For the sake of fairness, this may not have been the actual conversation, verbatim. This is how I experienced it. Or rather, how five year old Rich experienced it.
So I was really, really, really upset over all of this because it felt to me that my parents were trying to hijack my healing process from me. I felt really violated. I had to leave almost immediately to go to a yoga studio where I work. On my way there, I drove as recklessly as I have driven since I quit drinking. I want to say I was angry, but I'm not sure I was angry. I felt really out of control and upset. Once I got to the studio, I checked in the class. After that, I have a lot of down time to read, look at funny pictures on the internet, or amuse myself in any myriad ways that I can think of. So I decided to send them an email titled, "So it has come to my attention that I need to set some boundaries." I (five year old Rich) spelled out how I (he) felt as best as I (he) could in my (his) upset state and I sent off the email. My mom responded an hour or two later. Her response made me feel even more violated than before. So I went and got a new tattoo. Right on my ankle bone. Because I needed some physical pain to latch onto in order to drown out the emotional pain I was experiencing. I spent the day hanging out with a friend, then I went to another friend's house for a bbq. Where I got accidentally drunk and slept on his couch. I woke up Sunday morning and drove myself home. I was completely consumed by my mom's email from the day before. I couldn't stop thinking about it for the entire length of my ride home. So I decided that I would respond to the email when I got home. I walked in the door and sat down at my computer. My mom was in the kitchen making herself some breakfast. I started writing. Then I just looked up and said, "I got a new tattoo yesterday because I needed to feel enough physical pain to cover the emotional pain I'm having because of what you said."
Mom, "You're just saying that to try to hurt me."
Me, "Fuck you, mom."
Mom, "Fuck you, too. Keep screaming."
Me, "You emotionally raped me yesterday. I very clearly stated that I felt violated and instead of proceeding with understanding, you just kept pushing." (BTW, this is the gist of what I said, I don't remember exactly what it was that I said. Five year old Rich took over and that little fucker was not happy.)
Mom, "but...."
Me, "Shut the fuck up! Don't you dare try to take this away from me!"
Mom, "Can I hug you?"
Me, "No. Don't touch me. Don't talk to me. Don't even look at me. If you care about me in the least bit, you will walk over there, sit the fuck down, and shut the fuck up." (Can you feel the compassion yet?) This is the point where I almost threw up. I was literally dry-heaving. It was horrible. I was crying, though. I count that as a good thing.
So then I wrote an email responding to my mom's email and outlined, in no uncertain terms, what was going to happen. I told them both that I am going to be in control of my process and that if their actions didn't fit with my plan for my process, they would both be removed from my process immediately and completely. At that point, my dad sent an email back that basically said, "When can we sit down to talk about your needs?"
So there is the situation. Here is my response as far as the homework is concerned (regarding my explosion at my mom).
1. Mom, I felt very violated when you told me that you and dad met to talk about me without my knowing about it. I also felt very violated and out of control of my process when you told me that you had decided to find someone else for me to talk to.
2. My experience of the situation is that you and dad are trying to hijack my healing process.
3. As you know, I was raped. This makes me very sensitive regarding control over myself and my life.
4. I would like it if you let me know when you and dad were going to meet to talk about me. I would also like it if you asked me what kind of help I need from you regarding my process.
5. If you and ad meet to talk about me, will you please let me know beforehand? Will you please come to me and ask me what my needs are regarding my healing process?
Peace and Love,
Rich
--
'Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming-----WOW---What a ride!!!'
Shelley Quinn
Jul 24, 2012, 7:58:03 AM7/24/12
to compassionate...@googlegroups.com
Hi Rich,
This is Shelley. I just wanted to respond to your homework. At the moment I feel a bit reckless and I'm trying to numb out by diving into your homework entry.
Before I forget, did you do part 2 of the homework, because I don't see it?
Anyways, ya, whoa, dude, ya, um...
So you live with your parents or just your mom? and you were writing emails to them while they were there?
And wow, do your parents typically tip toe around you?
If I even cussed at my mom, she'd let loose her evil twin. I remember getting soap and even tobasco sauce when I spoke up for myself, esp towards my mother, and it would be my stepdad punishing me (probably prooving some respect towrds her). I guess I am feeling jealous. Jealous that they want to still take care of you (and I understand the dynamic sucks right now)
I think when my parents talk privately about me, I feel a little special, and a little like "whatever!" Hehe, I did manage to teach them how stubborn I can be, probably my main defense.
I understand feeling responsible for getting them emotionally settled. When I told my mother about my sexual abuse, that really tipped her over psychologically- I never knew till then how many traumatic issues she had...and from them on, it was about her, nevermind me, I was just a tendril off her vine of issues. And she keeps trying to hide my trauma from herself, and I think I would too, if I was her. How horrible to think my son ever being raped. I think i'd track and kill. I think my mother actually did track my nasty babysitter down, and he was already in some kind of prison.
I actually feel a little angry now towards your rapist.
My feeling towards my molester was finalized when I figured out that their was suffering in him too. I was never angry, just puzzled and hurt.
Do you know how you feel yet towards that bad man (or boy)? It's an interesting question I think.
There, I feel a little more exhausted, and can sleep better.
I didn't want to go to sleep after reading your letter, without dealing with it first.
Do you feel violated? I was just thinking that I might be violating you in some way... very fragile subject. Ya, boundaries...and permissions...
Please permit me to ask you these above questions and to permit me to share these above stories about me?
You're the star of my show this nite.
May you find peace in your writings! So passionate! Gets my heart goin'!
Shelley
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Sonya C Anderson
Jul 24, 2012, 8:17:03 AM7/24/12
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Wow! In my opinion, well done!
Sonya
Richard Krzyzanowski
Jul 24, 2012, 12:44:30 PM7/24/12
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Sonya,
Thanks!
Shelley,
I am going to try to get to your questions as they came in your email. To make things easier, I will copy and paste them before I respond.
"Before I forget, did you do part 2 of the homework, because I don't see it?"
I didn't do it. I got done writing my email and about 30 seconds after I sent it, I realized that I had forgotten that part. So I said, "Meh, fuck it. I will do it later." That will be below. BTW, five year old Rich wants to thank Shelley's Mother Ego for double checking his homework (Just teasing ;).
How I think my mom would have responded to my outburst if I had let her.
Rich, you're scaring me. I already feel guilty that I couldn't protect you from being raped when you were a child. Your words are hurting me. I love you and I want to help you to ease your pain.
1. Rich I'm scared.
2. My experience is that you are very angry at me and I don't understand why.
3. Learning that you were raped has opened up wounds form my past. It makes me think about times that I have been taken advantage of.
4. I want to help you.
5. Will you please let me help you?
"So you live with your parents or just your mom? and you were writing emails to them while they were there?"
I live with my mom. My parents are divorced. My dad lives a few minutes away. I wrote the email to them both while my mom was sitting a few feet away from me. I feel like writing is a better medium for me than talking, most of the time. It has just always seemed like when I write, I can express myself in the most constructive manner (as evidenced by my screaming fit).
"And wow, do your parents typically tip toe around you?"
By this, do you mean, "do they have meetings to talk about me and my brother and sister without our knowledge?" If not, could you clarify, please? If so, then yes. They have never been super open with us. To this day, I have very little idea why they divorced. I can tell you that I have some speculations as to the cause of it, but I have nothing solid from either one of them. They divorced 18 years ago.
"Hehe, I did manage to teach them how stubborn I can be, probably my main defense."
I'm good at this one, too!
"And she keeps trying to hide my trauma from herself, and I think I would too, if I was her."
My mom is trying to project her own issues onto me. I think that maybe she thinks that I can get over her issues for her.
"Do you know how you feel yet towards that bad man (or boy)?"
The short answer is yes. The long answer is I feel like I want to help him. Warning: I'm about to describe my rape pretty graphically.
I was raped by another five year old boy. We were playing at his house one day. It was suggested (I believe by him) that we tie each other up. At the time I felt this was a completely innocent and playful thing to do. So I agreed. Next, I found myself face-down on his couch. He was on top of me, pushing his knee into my lower back to hold me down (I still get pain in that spot from time to time when I am really stressed out/hurt) while he bound my hands behind me. Then, he grabbed something. A toy? I'm not sure what. It had a long handle on it. He stuck it down the back of my pants and started to penetrate me with it. I have no idea how long this lasted. The next thing I remember is that his mom walked in and started yelling at him to get off of me. I'm not sure if she had any idea what was going on or if she was just in denial of it. I don't remember if she even asked me if I was okay. My memory of the situation is that she was kind of flippant. It was more like, "What are you doing? Stop that." Rather than, "WHAT ARE DOING???!?!?!?!?!?! STOP THAT!!!!!!!!!" I don't remember what happened next.
But back to your question; the only reason one five year old boy does that to another five year old boy is because an adult taught him that it was okay to do. So, in my mind, the boy who raped me was raped himself. Another warning: my distaste for religion is about to rear its head. We attended a Catholic school. He was an altar boy. My best guess is that he was raped by a priest. Obviously, this is just a speculation and could be way off the mark. My apologies to anyone who is Catholic. I hope you can understand where I'm coming from.
Again, back to your question; I sincerely hope that he has found someone to help him and he is not acting out like this anymore. We are actually connected via facebook, but I'm really scared to send him a message saying, "Hey dude, remember when we were five and you shoved that thing in my ass? I was just wondering if you have gotten some help in dealing with your issues surrounding that whole experience. If not, I know a guy named JP that could help you out." It seems like a really tough conversation that I don't want to have. I have convinced myself that he isn't raping others. Probably just so that I can get to sleep at night believing that I'm a good person.
"Do you feel violated? I was just thinking that I might be violating you in some way... very fragile subject. Ya, boundaries...and permissions..."
I don't feel violated by you at all. I put my story into an open forum. That in itself is an act of asking for your questions, comments, and help. And I thank you for taking the time to respond and to make me think and feel about this situation at greater depth.
Anyway, I'm glad I could help you numb out a little bit. I'm currently numbing myself out with chocolate bars. I ate two of them while composing this email!
Also, Shelley, I hope that one day I get to meet you and give you a big hug! :)
Peace and Love,
Rich
Thanks!
Shelley,
I am going to try to get to your questions as they came in your email. To make things easier, I will copy and paste them before I respond.
"Before I forget, did you do part 2 of the homework, because I don't see it?"
How I think my mom would have responded to my outburst if I had let her.
Rich, you're scaring me. I already feel guilty that I couldn't protect you from being raped when you were a child. Your words are hurting me. I love you and I want to help you to ease your pain.
1. Rich I'm scared.
2. My experience is that you are very angry at me and I don't understand why.
3. Learning that you were raped has opened up wounds form my past. It makes me think about times that I have been taken advantage of.
4. I want to help you.
5. Will you please let me help you?
"So you live with your parents or just your mom? and you were writing emails to them while they were there?"
"And wow, do your parents typically tip toe around you?"
"Hehe, I did manage to teach them how stubborn I can be, probably my main defense."
"And she keeps trying to hide my trauma from herself, and I think I would too, if I was her."
"Do you know how you feel yet towards that bad man (or boy)?"
I was raped by another five year old boy. We were playing at his house one day. It was suggested (I believe by him) that we tie each other up. At the time I felt this was a completely innocent and playful thing to do. So I agreed. Next, I found myself face-down on his couch. He was on top of me, pushing his knee into my lower back to hold me down (I still get pain in that spot from time to time when I am really stressed out/hurt) while he bound my hands behind me. Then, he grabbed something. A toy? I'm not sure what. It had a long handle on it. He stuck it down the back of my pants and started to penetrate me with it. I have no idea how long this lasted. The next thing I remember is that his mom walked in and started yelling at him to get off of me. I'm not sure if she had any idea what was going on or if she was just in denial of it. I don't remember if she even asked me if I was okay. My memory of the situation is that she was kind of flippant. It was more like, "What are you doing? Stop that." Rather than, "WHAT ARE DOING???!?!?!?!?!?! STOP THAT!!!!!!!!!" I don't remember what happened next.
But back to your question; the only reason one five year old boy does that to another five year old boy is because an adult taught him that it was okay to do. So, in my mind, the boy who raped me was raped himself. Another warning: my distaste for religion is about to rear its head. We attended a Catholic school. He was an altar boy. My best guess is that he was raped by a priest. Obviously, this is just a speculation and could be way off the mark. My apologies to anyone who is Catholic. I hope you can understand where I'm coming from.
Again, back to your question; I sincerely hope that he has found someone to help him and he is not acting out like this anymore. We are actually connected via facebook, but I'm really scared to send him a message saying, "Hey dude, remember when we were five and you shoved that thing in my ass? I was just wondering if you have gotten some help in dealing with your issues surrounding that whole experience. If not, I know a guy named JP that could help you out." It seems like a really tough conversation that I don't want to have. I have convinced myself that he isn't raping others. Probably just so that I can get to sleep at night believing that I'm a good person.
"Do you feel violated? I was just thinking that I might be violating you in some way... very fragile subject. Ya, boundaries...and permissions..."
Anyway, I'm glad I could help you numb out a little bit. I'm currently numbing myself out with chocolate bars. I ate two of them while composing this email!
Also, Shelley, I hope that one day I get to meet you and give you a big hug! :)
Peace and Love,
Rich
Sarah Faye Pierce
Jul 24, 2012, 7:04:41 PM7/24/12
to compassionate...@googlegroups.com
Good Evening All (I'm on the East Coast and its dinner time) -
Late to the party but better late than never....
Here is my homework:
Exercise 1
1. My brother, his wife, and my nephew are planning a 5-day visit to see me and the sights of Washington D.C. They live in Hawaii and on average I'll visit with them once a year if lucky. They plan to stay with me at my condo in Alexandria, VA. First, my bro booked their flights (back in Jan) w/o getting in touch with me - irked me bc I travel quite a bit and could have possibly had plans to be out of town while they were planning to be here in the DC metro area. I literally just found out the first week of July the actual dates they would be visiting, and OH SURPRISE my parents, who live in Kansas, would be coming out too. I find all of this information out third hand through my Mom who informs me that she and my Dad were invited to my house to visit by my bro! So in my head I am thinking - why hasn't anyone discussed any of this with me and THIS is going to be a logistical nightmare. Cars/Condos/Hotels - expensive and tricky to find a hotel near my condo when the parents are on a tight budget. BUT before I get into this any further - you get the gist - big issue here is that this visit was being planned w/o any consultation with the host, me, and there are just a lot of things to consider from a planning perspective.
2. My reaction was anger/frustration/that i didnt want my parents coming to visit as well bc it would be too comlicated
3. a. Part of me feels out of control, another part of me feels like my input is not valued by my brother or my mom
3. b. My experience is that my brother and mother do not care what input i have to offer regarding planning their visit and are being inconsiderate of my input.
3. c. When I was a kid, I felt like I was ignored by my parents and that my opinion and feelings on certain topics didnt matter
Late to the party but better late than never....
Here is my homework:
Exercise 1
1. My brother, his wife, and my nephew are planning a 5-day visit to see me and the sights of Washington D.C. They live in Hawaii and on average I'll visit with them once a year if lucky. They plan to stay with me at my condo in Alexandria, VA. First, my bro booked their flights (back in Jan) w/o getting in touch with me - irked me bc I travel quite a bit and could have possibly had plans to be out of town while they were planning to be here in the DC metro area. I literally just found out the first week of July the actual dates they would be visiting, and OH SURPRISE my parents, who live in Kansas, would be coming out too. I find all of this information out third hand through my Mom who informs me that she and my Dad were invited to my house to visit by my bro! So in my head I am thinking - why hasn't anyone discussed any of this with me and THIS is going to be a logistical nightmare. Cars/Condos/Hotels - expensive and tricky to find a hotel near my condo when the parents are on a tight budget. BUT before I get into this any further - you get the gist - big issue here is that this visit was being planned w/o any consultation with the host, me, and there are just a lot of things to consider from a planning perspective.
2. My reaction was anger/frustration/that i didnt want my parents coming to visit as well bc it would be too comlicated
3. a. Part of me feels out of control, another part of me feels like my input is not valued by my brother or my mom
3. b. My experience is that my brother and mother do not care what input i have to offer regarding planning their visit and are being inconsiderate of my input.
3. c. When I was a kid, I felt like I was ignored by my parents and that my opinion and feelings on certain topics didnt matter
3. d. I would like to be included in discussions that have to do with planning a family vacation here in DC
3. e. Are you both willing to share with me your thoughts and ideas about planning a trip to visit?
Exercise 2 -
3. e. Are you both willing to share with me your thoughts and ideas about planning a trip to visit?
Exercise 2 -
1. Sarah's brother
2. Ryan's reaction was to 'almost' apologize - he came up short. He made certain assumptions about my conversations with my Mom that hadn't taken place and therefore was not communicating directly with me.
3. a. Sar I didn't realize that you were feeling that way. I thought Mom had shared the pertinent information
3. b. I didn't invite Mom and Dad to your place, Mom told me they were coming out, and nothing has been finalized.
3. c. Let's not get into our past issues - we disagree that Mom and Dad favored me over you and paid more attention to me
3. d. Going forward, I'll include you in all conversations regarding our plans and what we'd like to do when we are all together as a family.
Talk to y'all tomorrow! Sarah
Sarah Faye Pierce
fourLIFEfitness, LLC
Certified Personal Trainer
Certified Tae Bo® Fitness Instructor
Certified Metabolic Effect Group Trainer
Certified Lifestyle & Wellness CoachBe the Change YOU want to See in the World
--Mahatma Gandhi
Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2012 11:44:30 -0500
Subject: Re: {Compassionate Communication}13 How I compassionately communicate
From: chyky...@gmail.com
To: compassionate...@googlegroups.com
JP Sears
Jul 24, 2012, 10:32:09 PM7/24/12
to compassionate...@googlegroups.com
Hey Sarah,
Thanks for sharing how you distilled lots of emotions and perceptions into the streamline of your homework exercise!
Your brother invited me to stay with you as well...See you soon!
JP
PS This is deflecting with attempted humor, which is pretty crappy communication in all seriousness! A model of what not to do from JP :)
JP Sears
Jul 24, 2012, 10:42:39 PM7/24/12
to compassionate...@googlegroups.com
Hey Rich,
If I can ask a question or two, keep reading. If not, throw your computer out of the window now!
If you were imagining the perfect mother for you that would be able to respect and nurture you appropriately in the moment after you let her know that you felt violated that her and your dad talked about you without your knowledge and requested that they let you know first next time, how would you have wanted her to respond to you?
As for the mother that you do have. When she was reacting to you, not able to hear you, and yelling in return, how old would you guess the inner child was that became dominant in your mother in that moment? Beneath her emotional charge, what would you guess her real message was about herself that she didn't know how to say to you?
It is great to commune with you my friend,
JP
Richard Krzyzanowski
Jul 25, 2012, 9:52:40 PM7/25/12
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My ideal mother's response would go something like, "Wow, I'm sorry you feel that way. I didn't realize that my actions would affect you like that. Your father and I just want you be happy and we thought that we could help. I understand that you need to feel in control of this situation. In the future, I will ask you what you feel is best before I take any sort of actions. Also, I understand that it makes you uncomfortable when your dad and I talk about you and your healing process without your knowledge. We will make sure to let you know beforehand next time."
I would guess my mom's inner child that became dominant to be about 5 or 6 years old when we were yelling at each other.
I would guess her real message would go something like, "I've often felt like I've been taken advantage of, too. In many different ways. Your story has made me have to take a look at my past. And that scares me because I have been running away from it for so long."
Peace and Love,
Rich
Shelley Quinn
Jul 27, 2012, 4:45:11 AM7/27/12
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Thankyou for your openness and vulnerability. Wow.
I just wanted to add another piece of my relationship story here, as it concerns male rape.
My first longterm boyfriend during our final days together of our 6 year relationship, opened up to me in telling me that he was raped by his uncle. I was already hurt by him, and felt he was still manipulating me to stay, but i did believe him, and I did feel empathy, I'm not a psychopath, ok?
My husband now, only last year, after close to 9 years of being together opened up that one of his boyhood friends (who was also a bully) attempted to rape him, but he escaped after kicking him in the nuts. Crazy! When he told me this, my instinct that he had been keeping something from me was validated, I felt betrayed. (I know he has more stories, but whether he is numbing them out, I don't know.) I was suspicious that he was also trying to manipulate me, but again, I fear it was too late, because my heart was already broken. This time I felt angry at this little boy who tried to rape Jason, and angry at society in general. I am dumfounded at the number of sexual abuse stories that I encounter! Shocking!
In both cases I felt betrayed because I had opened up so quickly and early on in the relationship. And in both cases I failed to see or was in denial of the disconnection.
Please excuse my Charlie Brown drama: What's wrong with me? I'll never find that childhood sweetheart that I've always dreamed about!! Poor me! I'm doomed! hehe
Unbelievable that you are connected to this boy through facebook. How creepy for me to think about. I couldn't let that sit. I would totally call him out on it in the effort to confront this. Not that you should, but that's my uneducated instinct, as I usually deal with the consequences after the decision.
In tiptoe-ing, I mean that your parents seem to be careful around you? So as not to ruffle your feathers? Do you think that they are scared by your outbursts? Or don't you normally get angry at them? I have no clue, and I don't want any responsibility in hurting your feelings, or getting you angry at me, hehe! I'm just feeling your story out.
I wonder what your mother's issues could be.
Recently I opened up to my sister about some of my abuses and upbringing. She is 5 years younger, pregnant with her 3rd child, in her 3rd marriage, and gets alot of crap from my parents, especially my mother. I explained that even our mother wasn't as perfect as she professes. By opening up this way, I am hoping to help clear up her psych issues, as she's going through her birth journey. She is still emotionally affected by our controlling parents.
I always felt my sister was very spoiled, yet she developed a drug problem during her teenage years, and created a hard life for herself, including a rape experience. She never new of the hard life I lived, I had protected her from that. I was and probably still am very jealous of the love of her father (my step dad) and angry with my mother for not showing her affection. I feel I kept myself out of the way so that she could get all that attention that I actually wanted.
Dammit! Emotions are like cats!
Goodnight and Goodmorning,
Shelley
Richard Krzyzanowski
Jul 29, 2012, 10:53:21 AM7/29/12
to compassionate...@googlegroups.com
"I'm not a psychopath, ok? "
Who are you trying to convince?You mentioned that you felt manipulated by both of your significant others who came to you to tell you that they had been sexually abused/there was an attempt to sexually abuse them. Do you often feel manipulated by your significant other? Or do you feel that you were/are becoming detached from the relationships and that led you to feel manipulated because your partners felt that you were also becoming detached and therefore were trying some last-ditch bit of intimacy to try and reel you back in?
"Please excuse my Charlie Brown drama: What's wrong with me? I'll never find that childhood sweetheart that I've always dreamed about!! Poor me! I'm doomed! hehe"
"In tiptoe-ing, I mean that your parents seem to be careful around you? So as not to ruffle your feathers? Do you think that they are scared by your outbursts? Or don't you normally get angry at them? I have no clue, and I don't want any responsibility in hurting your feelings, or getting you angry at me, hehe! I'm just feeling your story out.
I wonder what your mother's issues could be."
My mom was definitely scared by my outburst. I don't usually do that, though. More often than not in my life I have just swallowed my anger when I have felt it towards my parents. Maybe that has caused me to have an outburst like I did. Maybe all of the pent up rage that I never vented before came out in that outburst. Maybe, for the first time in my life, I allowed my mom to see the place in me that hurts. And maybe that scared the shit out of her because her perception was that a place like that didn't exist in me. Maybe she figured out that even though she says that her actions are motivated by love, that they can still be hurtful and violating. And maybe that scared the shit out of her just as much as or more than my outburst.
Don't worry about hurting my feelings or getting me angry at you. Like I said before, I've opened my life into an open forum. Please keep asking your questions and feeling my story out. That helps me more than you know. And I am very grateful for that.
I'm curious as to what my mother's issues could be, as well, but I'm not very interested in doing that kind of work with someone that 1) doesn't want to do that kind of work and 2) is that closely connected to me, emotionally.
"I always felt my sister was very spoiled, yet she developed a drug problem during her teenage years, and created a hard life for herself, including a rape experience. "
"I am dumfounded at the number of sexual abuse stories that I encounter! Shocking!"
Peace and Love,
Rich
Shelley Quinn
Jul 30, 2012, 10:35:58 PM7/30/12
to compassionate...@googlegroups.com
Hello all you Kind Eyes,
First an update.
I had a conversation with my husband on Skype yesterday. He's off on a conference, so we were not interrupted by our child hehe. We talked about some pretty heavy things for me. I was given the opportunity to use the Comp Comm Model.
He answered my questions.
I had to grab my notes, because I couldn't think what to say.
It was so hard for me. I was crying. I noticed a few pixilated tears from him too, and to see that at all was amazing for me.
I felt vulnerable. I felt vulnerable to see his vulnerableness.
Yuck. Really uncomfortable!
So was he. He told me about a tightness in his chest...I started digging...
A Good thing was he was able to see a connection between his dog's death and his dad's accident (and his dad taking perkisett and craziness in his family, he was 12)
Another Good thing, even though I had heard these stories before it was the first time that I could look deeper into them and him and me.
Afterwards I felt terrible. I felt like a fish out of water? Uncomfortable, oh, I said that already. In disbelief. I wanted to run away from myself. I don't like to see myself in a strong position. A little excited, a little in shock. Still now am unclear of all my emotions.
A story comes to mind:
I was in a car accident once with a boyfriend in high school. He was messed up and had to get a brace put on his jaw. I stayed his girlfriend until he was fully recovered, then I broke up with him. (I told myself that I was scared to stay with someone who could put us in harm, I trusted him to drive, we were drunk and I was stupid)
I was so touched by Jason's story.
Yet, I am finally looking at our financial divorce papers and all the practical stuff around dealing with that.
Jason and my son are in the US for 4 months. This is the first time I've been away so long from my husband and certainly from my son. I am really taking this opportunity to work on things. This time for me to focus and be quiet with myself is precious.
I want bad to do the right thing.
I don't want to put myself in a difficult life. I have it so easy right now, but there is a calm voice inside me that says jump.
Some replies below...
Hmm, that's a neat way to look at it. I see the more openly detached I become, the more effort he tries to connect. Not sure how true that is, but that's what I'm calling it. Yes, I feel vulnerable and suspicious.
Before my sexual abuse I remember being a "flirty" little girl. And was horrified by my abusers actions. Not sure if there's a connection, it just popped into my head.
hehe! that's refreshing! Evidence of the ornery old man you're becoming.
Cool! Ain't it funny how it can work like that? The attention, the response, and wow, the consideration in the reflections. These JP Forums Rock! Lovely.
Maybe. Yet it is her experience that she wasn't given enough attention. Wild, huh?
Many thanks Rich (I want to call you Richie Rich, hehe, from all that t.v. from my childhood?)
Happy fermentation of your sensations! (not sure why I wrote this either, just a creative spark to bring me out of the clouds down to earth or launch me into the freedom of space?)
Blah!
Shelley
First an update.
I had a conversation with my husband on Skype yesterday. He's off on a conference, so we were not interrupted by our child hehe. We talked about some pretty heavy things for me. I was given the opportunity to use the Comp Comm Model.
He answered my questions.
I had to grab my notes, because I couldn't think what to say.
It was so hard for me. I was crying. I noticed a few pixilated tears from him too, and to see that at all was amazing for me.
I felt vulnerable. I felt vulnerable to see his vulnerableness.
Yuck. Really uncomfortable!
So was he. He told me about a tightness in his chest...I started digging...
A Good thing was he was able to see a connection between his dog's death and his dad's accident (and his dad taking perkisett and craziness in his family, he was 12)
Another Good thing, even though I had heard these stories before it was the first time that I could look deeper into them and him and me.
Afterwards I felt terrible. I felt like a fish out of water? Uncomfortable, oh, I said that already. In disbelief. I wanted to run away from myself. I don't like to see myself in a strong position. A little excited, a little in shock. Still now am unclear of all my emotions.
A story comes to mind:
I was in a car accident once with a boyfriend in high school. He was messed up and had to get a brace put on his jaw. I stayed his girlfriend until he was fully recovered, then I broke up with him. (I told myself that I was scared to stay with someone who could put us in harm, I trusted him to drive, we were drunk and I was stupid)
I was so touched by Jason's story.
Yet, I am finally looking at our financial divorce papers and all the practical stuff around dealing with that.
Jason and my son are in the US for 4 months. This is the first time I've been away so long from my husband and certainly from my son. I am really taking this opportunity to work on things. This time for me to focus and be quiet with myself is precious.
I want bad to do the right thing.
I don't want to put myself in a difficult life. I have it so easy right now, but there is a calm voice inside me that says jump.
Some replies below...
On Mon, Jul 30, 2012 at 2:53 AM, Richard Krzyzanowski <chyky...@gmail.com> wrote:
"I'm not a psychopath, ok? "
Who are you trying to convince?
You mentioned that you felt manipulated by both of your significant others who came to you to tell you that they had been sexually abused/there was an attempt to sexually abuse them. Do you often feel manipulated by your significant other? Or do you feel that you were/are becoming detached from the relationships and that led you to feel manipulated because your partners felt that you were also becoming detached and therefore were trying some last-ditch bit of intimacy to try and reel you back in?
Hmm, that's a neat way to look at it. I see the more openly detached I become, the more effort he tries to connect. Not sure how true that is, but that's what I'm calling it. Yes, I feel vulnerable and suspicious.
Before my sexual abuse I remember being a "flirty" little girl. And was horrified by my abusers actions. Not sure if there's a connection, it just popped into my head.
"Please excuse my Charlie Brown drama: What's wrong with me? I'll never find that childhood sweetheart that I've always dreamed about!! Poor me! I'm doomed! hehe"
What isn't wrong with you? Or any human for that matter? We're all totally fucked and that's okay! Once in a while I like to tell myself, "Everything is fucked, man. And that's cool."
hehe! that's refreshing! Evidence of the ornery old man you're becoming.
"In tiptoe-ing, I mean that your parents seem to be careful around you? So as not to ruffle your feathers? Do you think that they are scared by your outbursts? Or don't you normally get angry at them? I have no clue, and I don't want any responsibility in hurting your feelings, or getting you angry at me, hehe! I'm just feeling your story out.
I wonder what your mother's issues could be."
I don't feel like they are very careful around me. I actually feel that they are pretty blunt with me. Maybe they do tip-toe. I feel like they have never understood me or what I need and want. That is probably my fault for not being able/having enough self esteem to tell them. Maybe it's their fault for not ever listening to me when I tried to speak up as a child. Maybe the fault is shared like it is in every situation involving human interaction. Now that I'm thinking about it, I feel like my mom tip-toes around me. But I think her tip-toeing actually makes me more uncomfortable than if she were more blunt. I feel like maybe she gets nervous about having tough conversations and then has to "force" herself to say things and they come out in a way that can be interpreted differently than how she meant for them to be interpreted.
My mom was definitely scared by my outburst. I don't usually do that, though. More often than not in my life I have just swallowed my anger when I have felt it towards my parents. Maybe that has caused me to have an outburst like I did. Maybe all of the pent up rage that I never vented before came out in that outburst. Maybe, for the first time in my life, I allowed my mom to see the place in me that hurts. And maybe that scared the shit out of her because her perception was that a place like that didn't exist in me. Maybe she figured out that even though she says that her actions are motivated by love, that they can still be hurtful and violating. And maybe that scared the shit out of her just as much as or more than my outburst.
Don't worry about hurting my feelings or getting me angry at you. Like I said before, I've opened my life into an open forum. Please keep asking your questions and feeling my story out. That helps me more than you know. And I am very grateful for that.
Cool! Ain't it funny how it can work like that? The attention, the response, and wow, the consideration in the reflections. These JP Forums Rock! Lovely.
I'm curious as to what my mother's issues could be, as well, but I'm not very interested in doing that kind of work with someone that 1) doesn't want to do that kind of work and 2) is that closely connected to me, emotionally.
"I always felt my sister was very spoiled, yet she developed a drug problem during her teenage years, and created a hard life for herself, including a rape experience. "
Do you think that maybe you could reword this to say, "I always felt my sister was very spoiled. And because of that, she developed a drug problem during her teenage years, and created a hard life for herself, including a rape experience."?
Maybe. Yet it is her experience that she wasn't given enough attention. Wild, huh?
"I am dumfounded at the number of sexual abuse stories that I encounter! Shocking!"
I was surprised by this at first, but as I become more open about my rape, more people become more open with me about their own experiences. It seems to me that in beginning to own that, we draw those that need help with similar situations to ourselves. For example, I thought about this not too long ago, every woman that I have had any kind of extended relationship with has been raped. Also, I am the product of a divorce. I am drawing a lot of divorces in progress to myself and have done so pretty regularly even before I decided that I wanted to help people on an emotional level.
Peace and Love,
Rich
Many thanks Rich (I want to call you Richie Rich, hehe, from all that t.v. from my childhood?)
Happy fermentation of your sensations! (not sure why I wrote this either, just a creative spark to bring me out of the clouds down to earth or launch me into the freedom of space?)
Blah!
Shelley
Richard Krzyzanowski
Jul 31, 2012, 2:39:37 PM7/31/12
to compassionate...@googlegroups.com
Shelly,
Congrats on your conversation with Jason and on feeling uncomfortable and on making him feel uncomfortable! It sounds like it was a moving and productive conversation.
"A Good thing was he was able to see a connection between his dog's death and his dad's accident (and his dad taking perkisett and craziness in his family, he was 12) "
Would you mind expanding on this a little bit, please? Could you give us some back story and maybe draw out the connection for us? Just curious.
"Afterwards I felt terrible. I felt like a fish out of water? Uncomfortable, oh, I said that already. In disbelief. I wanted to run away from myself. I don't like to see myself in a strong position. A little excited, a little in shock. Still now am unclear of all my emotions."
Did you run away from it/you? How did that play out?
"A story comes to mind:
I was in a car accident once with a boyfriend in high school. He was messed up and had to get a brace put on his jaw. I stayed his girlfriend until he was fully recovered, then I broke up with him. (I told myself that I was scared to stay with someone who could put us in harm, I trusted him to drive, we were drunk and I was stupid)"
Can you walk us through the cognitive leaps you took to get from "unclear of all of my emotions" to "A story came to mind"? Again, just curious, but it seems to me that maybe there were a couple steps between the two that I can't see.
"I was so touched by Jason's story.
Yet, I am finally looking at our financial divorce papers and all the practical stuff around dealing with that.
Jason and my son are in the US for 4 months. This is the first time I've been away so long from my husband and certainly from my son. I am really taking this opportunity to work on things. This time for me to focus and be quiet with myself is precious.
I want bad to do the right thing.
I don't want to put myself in a difficult life. I have it so easy right now, but there is a calm voice inside me that says jump."
Is it possible that allowing yourself to divorce would be an act of compassion towards both you and Jason? Do you think that maybe his touching story allowed you the space to be compassionate to both of you? Is it possible that the right thing is whatever thing you do? Do you truly have it easy right now? If you jump, do you think that you will figure out how to use your wings before you hit the ground?
"hehe! that's refreshing! Evidence of the ornery old man you're becoming."
So I just turned thirty a couple of weeks ago. Which I guess is a big milestone for some. I feel better than I ever have. The one thing that is fucking with me, though, is the nose hair. I'm not at all joking. I get these nose hairs that are like an inch or two long and they wrap the inside of my nostrils. They drive me fucking bonkers! So I grab a pair of tweezers and rip them out. That'll teach me! How's that for ornery old man?
"Maybe. Yet it is her experience that she wasn't given enough attention. Wild, huh?"
I actually see this as completely normal. Parents, grandparents, whomever spoiled your sister. I'm guessing with objects. Toys, trinkets, other what-have-you's. In some people's eyes, she was getting a lot of attention. Maybe in her eyes she wasn't getting any attention. What if she needed meaningful attention? What if she just wanted a hug? What if she just wanted to curl up on a couch with mommy or daddy and have them read to her? What if that never happened and all she ever got was someone's afterthought? "Oh shit, I forgot to read to Shelley's sister (I don't know her name) today! Oh, well, I will just go spend a couple bucks on a toy to shut her up." I am certainly not implying that this is what your parents etc. were thinking, but do you think that in her child-like mind, this could have been your sister's perception?
I hope your travels through space are/were safe ones!
Peace and Love,
Richie Rich
Congrats on your conversation with Jason and on feeling uncomfortable and on making him feel uncomfortable! It sounds like it was a moving and productive conversation.
"A Good thing was he was able to see a connection between his dog's death and his dad's accident (and his dad taking perkisett and craziness in his family, he was 12) "
"Afterwards I felt terrible. I felt like a fish out of water? Uncomfortable, oh, I said that already. In disbelief. I wanted to run away from myself. I don't like to see myself in a strong position. A little excited, a little in shock. Still now am unclear of all my emotions."
"A story comes to mind:
I was in a car accident once with a boyfriend in high school. He was messed up and had to get a brace put on his jaw. I stayed his girlfriend until he was fully recovered, then I broke up with him. (I told myself that I was scared to stay with someone who could put us in harm, I trusted him to drive, we were drunk and I was stupid)"
"I was so touched by Jason's story.
Yet, I am finally looking at our financial divorce papers and all the practical stuff around dealing with that.
Jason and my son are in the US for 4 months. This is the first time I've been away so long from my husband and certainly from my son. I am really taking this opportunity to work on things. This time for me to focus and be quiet with myself is precious.
I want bad to do the right thing.
I don't want to put myself in a difficult life. I have it so easy right now, but there is a calm voice inside me that says jump."
"hehe! that's refreshing! Evidence of the ornery old man you're becoming."
"Maybe. Yet it is her experience that she wasn't given enough attention. Wild, huh?"
I hope your travels through space are/were safe ones!
Peace and Love,
Richie Rich
On Mon, Jul 30, 2012 at 9:35 PM, Shelley Quinn <shelley...@gmail.com> wrote:
Hello all you Kind Eyes,
First an update.
I had a conversation with my husband on Skype yesterday. He's off on a conference, so we were not interrupted by our child hehe. We talked about some pretty heavy things for me. I was given the opportunity to use the Comp Comm Model.
He answered my questions.
I had to grab my notes, because I couldn't think what to say.
It was so hard for me. I was crying. I noticed a few pixilated tears from him too, and to see that at all was amazing for me.
I felt vulnerable. I felt vulnerable to see his vulnerableness.
Yuck. Really uncomfortable!
So was he. He told me about a tightness in his chest...I started digging...
Gabrielle Adam
Aug 1, 2012, 11:43:05 AM8/1/12
to compassionate...@googlegroups.com
Hi Shelley,
I appreciate you sharing your story and a part of me perceives you sharing your vulnerability as very courageous. In reading your story, a part of me asks a question that is definitely on my mind...what is right and wrong, is there really a right and wrong decision or can it be that for part of me a choice could be perceived as right and for another it could be perceived as wrong and then another part of me pipes up what if the key is that it's a choice and not simply a reaction, what if the purpose of any decision we ever make is to see within us where different parts of us stand and in acknowledging them we accept them and therefore connect with ourselves. If I'm hearing myself correctly I think a part of me is saying what if every choice is simply an opportunity to connect with ourselves and in so doing can connect with others.
Just what's going on in my head after reading your story. A part of me appreciates you initiating this chain of events!
Gaby
Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2012 14:35:58 +1200
Subject: Re: {Compassionate Communication}25 How I compassionately communicate
From: shelley...@gmail.com
To: compassionate...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: {Compassionate Communication}25 How I compassionately communicate
From: shelley...@gmail.com
To: compassionate...@googlegroups.com
Shelley Quinn
Aug 3, 2012, 11:54:51 PM8/3/12
to compassionate...@googlegroups.com
Lots for me to process still. I am having a hard time writing a response, but will try to anyways...
So Jason's tightness in his chest came after talking about separation stuff, I think. I honestly am having a difficult time recalling the facts, but am remembering feelings. I think I must have asked him how he was feeling because he looked ill.
So from there I asked him more questions to find out what his sensations represented to him.
I guess when he was around 12 his dog/best friend died. He had to bury his dog himself. His dog was a part of the family that brought balance to the environment. Around this same time, his father was in an accident (as a policeman and to note he is an ex vietnam vet) and hurt his back, so was put on pain killers...I think his father must have been abusing his prescription for he became aggressive. This caused even more craziness in the house. I think Jason has felt like an adult from the age of 12.
So after our chat on skype, I just turned off the computer. I felt weird, and am still settling from that connection with him.
I think I have this feeling of being betrayed by everyone around me. Not sure where this is coming from, although my mother did tell me a story of herself when she was a single mom--she could not trust anyone, not even her own family...
I am also seeing that even when I am trying to connect with a person, I still have a wall in place... maybe it's a boundary? No clue. Just a sort of protection because I think the other person has the responsibility to care for themselves, it's not my place, and I feel frustrated with myself to even consider feeling sorry for the other person, but also mad at myself for not being vulnerable enough to go on a healing journey in their presence. Perhaps I feel it's a private matter? Instead I turn neutral or blank void of emotions, then I want to run away to my room for an escape.
So leaping to breaking up with an old beau. I think that's exactly what I do, I just leap over steps, not knowing what I missed. A part of me is ready to break from Jason in a tender and loving way. Another part is looking to see if there is something I am not seeing before I make that break, so as to preserve the good angel in me. My angel is never wrong. Another part is panicking that I am sabotaging myself, to punish myself for having a better life than my mother had, or really than alot of people are having in the world. Am I a spoiled princess? Should I just stick-out my self tortures to see what comes out on the other side? I look at Jason and I see myself, and I see alot of yucky parts, yet I'm sure I am benefiting, or why else would I be taking these classes searching for answers? I've always been a soul searcher, and a part of me is ashamed of that. A part of me makes big decisions with my heart without fear, at least that's what I'm told. I tell myself to fear or be prepared to be shocked. I'll stop this train of thought because I am feeling sorry for myself again, and don't want to further expose the whiney child in me. (My great aunt Tchutchy Blanch used to make fun of me for whining, I so hated that, and seeing her ego part in me makes me pissed)
Actually, I feel my sister was spoiled by attention, not my stuff so much. We were poor middle class. She could be so dramatic and clingy, and go for hugs and kisses all the time, and I was jealous of that. I had a fear of my mother and stepdad from early on, and was dumbfounded at what behaviors my sister could get away with. She was with her blood parents, so she could feel both of their connections. She claims her affections were turned down from mom and dad and me and my brother. She wanted to be noticed all the time! So to me, who only wanted to be noticed sometimes, her call for attention was ridiculous at times, and took away from the little bit I wanted. Now as adults, my sister and I agree, as a commonground, that our parents didn't honor our voices, nor encourage us to speak up for ourselves, at least to our perceptions.
Even now, I have a difficult time socializing with Jason because he calls for alot of attention from everyone in the room (nevermind from me when at home). So I have to almost fight for the floor sometimes, which makes me stressed and sad. I love hanging out with a bunch of sensitive people, because there is time for everyone to say their piece and not have to compete too much. I thinks that's why I like writing emails so much, I can take all the time I want to, and respond how it suits me in the moment. Kinda indulgent of me, huh?
Yeah, I've been going on a few space shots since being in these courses. But a year before taking these classes I was on a Cosmic adventure for sure!
So actually going forward, in learning and using these tools etc that JP's taught, teaching, and will be teaching, makes me feel alot more grounded than I ever was. Life's still a frightening ride, but at least now I feel that upon my death I will have been gifted with a little extra fairy dust to be composted with. We come from stars you know? A sperm star that impregnated the earth? I know this via my rocket scientist husband ( yes a real rocket engineer) Pretty cool to think about though. Oops, I leaped again.
Nose hairs? You what? Ouch!! That's so bad. How about scissors? (I do have memories of my Gramps' bathroom habits. He was a smoker, and I swear lung was coming out of his nose. LOL!)
Thanks again dearest Rich! I don't always like what you trigger, but it does help to clear some space.
Happy Full Moon Everyone,
Shelley
So Jason's tightness in his chest came after talking about separation stuff, I think. I honestly am having a difficult time recalling the facts, but am remembering feelings. I think I must have asked him how he was feeling because he looked ill.
So from there I asked him more questions to find out what his sensations represented to him.
I guess when he was around 12 his dog/best friend died. He had to bury his dog himself. His dog was a part of the family that brought balance to the environment. Around this same time, his father was in an accident (as a policeman and to note he is an ex vietnam vet) and hurt his back, so was put on pain killers...I think his father must have been abusing his prescription for he became aggressive. This caused even more craziness in the house. I think Jason has felt like an adult from the age of 12.
So after our chat on skype, I just turned off the computer. I felt weird, and am still settling from that connection with him.
I think I have this feeling of being betrayed by everyone around me. Not sure where this is coming from, although my mother did tell me a story of herself when she was a single mom--she could not trust anyone, not even her own family...
I am also seeing that even when I am trying to connect with a person, I still have a wall in place... maybe it's a boundary? No clue. Just a sort of protection because I think the other person has the responsibility to care for themselves, it's not my place, and I feel frustrated with myself to even consider feeling sorry for the other person, but also mad at myself for not being vulnerable enough to go on a healing journey in their presence. Perhaps I feel it's a private matter? Instead I turn neutral or blank void of emotions, then I want to run away to my room for an escape.
So leaping to breaking up with an old beau. I think that's exactly what I do, I just leap over steps, not knowing what I missed. A part of me is ready to break from Jason in a tender and loving way. Another part is looking to see if there is something I am not seeing before I make that break, so as to preserve the good angel in me. My angel is never wrong. Another part is panicking that I am sabotaging myself, to punish myself for having a better life than my mother had, or really than alot of people are having in the world. Am I a spoiled princess? Should I just stick-out my self tortures to see what comes out on the other side? I look at Jason and I see myself, and I see alot of yucky parts, yet I'm sure I am benefiting, or why else would I be taking these classes searching for answers? I've always been a soul searcher, and a part of me is ashamed of that. A part of me makes big decisions with my heart without fear, at least that's what I'm told. I tell myself to fear or be prepared to be shocked. I'll stop this train of thought because I am feeling sorry for myself again, and don't want to further expose the whiney child in me. (My great aunt Tchutchy Blanch used to make fun of me for whining, I so hated that, and seeing her ego part in me makes me pissed)
Actually, I feel my sister was spoiled by attention, not my stuff so much. We were poor middle class. She could be so dramatic and clingy, and go for hugs and kisses all the time, and I was jealous of that. I had a fear of my mother and stepdad from early on, and was dumbfounded at what behaviors my sister could get away with. She was with her blood parents, so she could feel both of their connections. She claims her affections were turned down from mom and dad and me and my brother. She wanted to be noticed all the time! So to me, who only wanted to be noticed sometimes, her call for attention was ridiculous at times, and took away from the little bit I wanted. Now as adults, my sister and I agree, as a commonground, that our parents didn't honor our voices, nor encourage us to speak up for ourselves, at least to our perceptions.
Even now, I have a difficult time socializing with Jason because he calls for alot of attention from everyone in the room (nevermind from me when at home). So I have to almost fight for the floor sometimes, which makes me stressed and sad. I love hanging out with a bunch of sensitive people, because there is time for everyone to say their piece and not have to compete too much. I thinks that's why I like writing emails so much, I can take all the time I want to, and respond how it suits me in the moment. Kinda indulgent of me, huh?
Yeah, I've been going on a few space shots since being in these courses. But a year before taking these classes I was on a Cosmic adventure for sure!
So actually going forward, in learning and using these tools etc that JP's taught, teaching, and will be teaching, makes me feel alot more grounded than I ever was. Life's still a frightening ride, but at least now I feel that upon my death I will have been gifted with a little extra fairy dust to be composted with. We come from stars you know? A sperm star that impregnated the earth? I know this via my rocket scientist husband ( yes a real rocket engineer) Pretty cool to think about though. Oops, I leaped again.
Nose hairs? You what? Ouch!! That's so bad. How about scissors? (I do have memories of my Gramps' bathroom habits. He was a smoker, and I swear lung was coming out of his nose. LOL!)
Thanks again dearest Rich! I don't always like what you trigger, but it does help to clear some space.
Happy Full Moon Everyone,
Shelley
Richard Krzyzanowski
Aug 7, 2012, 5:02:40 PM8/7/12
to compassionate...@googlegroups.com
Shelley,
So I have probably read your email about ten times. Every time I do, it hurts so bad that I want to puke. Thanks for sharing yourself. My responses to your thoughts are going to be short as I have something on my mind, which I will get into after some questions for you.
"I think I have this feeling of being betrayed by everyone around me. Not sure where this is coming from, although my mother did tell me a story of herself when she was a single mom--she could not trust anyone, not even her own family..."
Do you think that this may stem from sexual abuse? For both you and your mom?
"I am also seeing that even when I am trying to connect with a person, I still have a wall in place... maybe it's a boundary? No clue. Just a sort of protection because I think the other person has the responsibility to care for themselves, it's not my place, and I feel frustrated with myself to even consider feeling sorry for the other person, but also mad at myself for not being vulnerable enough to go on a healing journey in their presence. Perhaps I feel it's a private matter? Instead I turn neutral or blank void of emotions, then I want to run away to my room for an escape."
I have walls in place for some people at some times. I never really thought of it as a boundary. I always just thought that I was closed off to those people and didn't really know why. Maybe it is a boundary. I feel myself getting more closed off with people that I don't particularly like. And my mom. And people who violate me. Maybe I don't particularly like my mom because she violates me.
Do you think that maybe healing journeys are really intimate affairs? I feel like they are. I feel like it would be very difficult to take that trip in the presence of someone who I didn't particularly like or had set up a wall/boundary towards. I just feel uncomfortable opening myself to some people. Maybe I'm arrogant, or I perceive myself as arrogant, because of this. Do you think you can go on a healing journey by yourself? If so, maybe run off to your room and let yourself escape for a few minutes. Maybe let yourself take the trip you need to take and then come back to life/your situation when you are ready to come back it. Just be mindful of the fact that you are on "vacation" when you are and be mindful of being present when you are back to real life.
"So leaping to breaking up with an old beau. I think that's exactly what I do, I just leap over steps, not knowing what I missed. A part of me is ready to break from Jason in a tender and loving way. Another part is looking to see if there is something I am not seeing before I make that break, so as to preserve the good angel in me."
If you are human, and I am assuming you are, there is something that you will overlook.
Why is your angel so special to you? How old is she/he? Does she/he have a name?
" My angel is never wrong."
What would happen if she/he was wrong?
"Another part is panicking that I am sabotaging myself"
Do you think the part that is panicking is the part that is being sabotaged?
"I'll stop this train of thought because I am feeling sorry for myself again, and don't want to further expose the whiney child in me. (My great aunt Tchutchy Blanch used to make fun of me for whining, I so hated that, and seeing her ego part in me makes me pissed)"
Why stop the train of thought? Why not just let it run and see where it goes? Why not let Tchutchy Blanch come out to play? Maybe she just needs one last hurrah before she goes away? Why not expose your whiny child? I promise you that I will not make fun of you for whining. I would venture to guess that no one on this forum would do that either. Why does seeing Tchutchy Blanch in yourself make you angry?
"Actually, I feel my sister was spoiled by attention, not my stuff so much"
"I thinks that's why I like writing emails so much, I can take all the time I want to, and respond how it suits me in the moment. Kinda indulgent of me, huh?"
That is why I like writing emails, too. I can look over my words and see them from different perspectives. I can also take my time and feel out what it is that I have to give/say. It is very indulgent, but indulge away!
" We come from stars you know?"
HELL YEAH WE DO!!!
"A sperm star that impregnated the earth?"
A quick look into Rich's perversions: Every time I read the above line, I picture a cartoon star wearing sun glasses fucking the Earth from behind. The star and the Earth are both smiling and enjoying themselves. The star kind of runs one hand through his hair as he grabs the Earth's hip with the other hand. It's not romantic, just fucking.
"How about scissors?"
I'm so freaked out about putting scissors up my nose. Every time I have to pluck a nose hair, I end up sneezing a lot. And so I feel like if I were to shove some scissors up there, I would sneeze and jam the scissors right up into my brain. More perversions from Rich!
Now, My Stuff!
My parents violate me. It sucks. Even when I spell things out for them, they keep doing what they're doing. I had a talk with them last night regarding our email exchange and my explosion towards my mother. I had to explain to them what it felt like for me to be violated. Two or three times. Here is a sample exchange from last night. BTW, as a little bit of back story, the first thing that I asked for from them in my emails was that they let me know when they were going to meet to discuss me. The verbatim words I used are, "If you two are going to meet to talk about me, I would be much more comfortable knowing about it beforehand." My dad told me that I used some very strong language in that statement. I had to ask if he was kidding.
Me: "I was violated on a very deep and intimate level when I was a child. When I say that I feel violated now, what that means is that I feel emotionally and physically similar to how I did when I was raped as a child."
Mom and Dad: "........"
Me: "And I wish I could describe to you what it's like for me, but I don't really have words to properly teach you about the emotional upset and the physical pain that I experience when I feel violated."
Dad: "So what if we met and just kept it a secret?"
Me, holding back puke: "Dad, do you understand how violating that question is?"
Dad: "No."
And so I got back to trying to teach them what it's like to be me without injuring their emotions too much more than I did with the admission that I had been raped.
So I have probably read your email about ten times. Every time I do, it hurts so bad that I want to puke. Thanks for sharing yourself. My responses to your thoughts are going to be short as I have something on my mind, which I will get into after some questions for you.
"I think I have this feeling of being betrayed by everyone around me. Not sure where this is coming from, although my mother did tell me a story of herself when she was a single mom--she could not trust anyone, not even her own family..."
"I am also seeing that even when I am trying to connect with a person, I still have a wall in place... maybe it's a boundary? No clue. Just a sort of protection because I think the other person has the responsibility to care for themselves, it's not my place, and I feel frustrated with myself to even consider feeling sorry for the other person, but also mad at myself for not being vulnerable enough to go on a healing journey in their presence. Perhaps I feel it's a private matter? Instead I turn neutral or blank void of emotions, then I want to run away to my room for an escape."
Do you think that maybe healing journeys are really intimate affairs? I feel like they are. I feel like it would be very difficult to take that trip in the presence of someone who I didn't particularly like or had set up a wall/boundary towards. I just feel uncomfortable opening myself to some people. Maybe I'm arrogant, or I perceive myself as arrogant, because of this. Do you think you can go on a healing journey by yourself? If so, maybe run off to your room and let yourself escape for a few minutes. Maybe let yourself take the trip you need to take and then come back to life/your situation when you are ready to come back it. Just be mindful of the fact that you are on "vacation" when you are and be mindful of being present when you are back to real life.
"So leaping to breaking up with an old beau. I think that's exactly what I do, I just leap over steps, not knowing what I missed. A part of me is ready to break from Jason in a tender and loving way. Another part is looking to see if there is something I am not seeing before I make that break, so as to preserve the good angel in me."
Why is your angel so special to you? How old is she/he? Does she/he have a name?
" My angel is never wrong."
"Another part is panicking that I am sabotaging myself"
"I'll stop this train of thought because I am feeling sorry for myself again, and don't want to further expose the whiney child in me. (My great aunt Tchutchy Blanch used to make fun of me for whining, I so hated that, and seeing her ego part in me makes me pissed)"
"Actually, I feel my sister was spoiled by attention, not my stuff so much"
" She claims her affections were turned down from mom and dad and me and my brother. She wanted to be noticed all the time! So to me, who only wanted to be noticed sometimes, her call for
attention was ridiculous at times, and took away from the little bit I
wanted. Now as adults, my sister and I agree, as a commonground, that
our parents didn't honor our voices, nor encourage us to speak up for
ourselves, at least to our perceptions."
"Even now, I have a difficult time socializing with Jason because he calls for alot of attention from everyone in the room (nevermind from me when at home). So I have to almost fight for the floor sometimes, which makes me stressed and sad."
I just wanted to connect the three quotes above because I feel like they are connected. "Even now, I have a difficult time socializing with Jason because he calls for alot of attention from everyone in the room (nevermind from me when at home). So I have to almost fight for the floor sometimes, which makes me stressed and sad."
"I thinks that's why I like writing emails so much, I can take all the time I want to, and respond how it suits me in the moment. Kinda indulgent of me, huh?"
" We come from stars you know?"
"A sperm star that impregnated the earth?"
"How about scissors?"
I'm so freaked out about putting scissors up my nose. Every time I have to pluck a nose hair, I end up sneezing a lot. And so I feel like if I were to shove some scissors up there, I would sneeze and jam the scissors right up into my brain. More perversions from Rich!
Now, My Stuff!
My parents violate me. It sucks. Even when I spell things out for them, they keep doing what they're doing. I had a talk with them last night regarding our email exchange and my explosion towards my mother. I had to explain to them what it felt like for me to be violated. Two or three times. Here is a sample exchange from last night. BTW, as a little bit of back story, the first thing that I asked for from them in my emails was that they let me know when they were going to meet to discuss me. The verbatim words I used are, "If you two are going to meet to talk about me, I would be much more comfortable knowing about it beforehand." My dad told me that I used some very strong language in that statement. I had to ask if he was kidding.
Me: "I was violated on a very deep and intimate level when I was a child. When I say that I feel violated now, what that means is that I feel emotionally and physically similar to how I did when I was raped as a child."
Mom and Dad: "........"
Me: "And I wish I could describe to you what it's like for me, but I don't really have words to properly teach you about the emotional upset and the physical pain that I experience when I feel violated."
Dad: "So what if we met and just kept it a secret?"
Me, holding back puke: "Dad, do you understand how violating that question is?"
Dad: "No."
And so I got back to trying to teach them what it's like to be me without injuring their emotions too much more than I did with the admission that I had been raped.
Richard Krzyzanowski
Aug 7, 2012, 5:05:17 PM8/7/12
to compassionate...@googlegroups.com
Shelley Quinn
Aug 7, 2012, 10:48:17 PM8/7/12
to compassionate...@googlegroups.com
Dear Gaby,
I read this email, and feel like I read it a year ago. ha! But it was only days. So today I'll bounce it back.
I love this thought of yours:
"what if the purpose of any decision we ever make is to see within us where different parts of us stand and in acknowledging them we accept them and therefore connect with ourselves"
Parfait!
I want to bring up the idea of environment again. I think this word irked me in Art of Coaching.
...our communities, families, our upbringing, and our modern society, or whatever society we live that influences our choices. Our inner environment. Our outer environment. What our "eyes" perceive.
Our attempt to connect the two (or the myriad) in a natural way.
What makes a choice right or wrong? Why is it wrong in one environment, but not in another? Peculiar for me to think about.
I think I have a difficult time accepting myself. Sometimes I acknowledge parts of myself, or ignore them...and I do believe that acknowledging parts of me help me to accept pieces of me, and this does make me feel more connected between the inner and the outer. I also feel a little more confident in my world, which is a nice change. A little more comfortable in and out of my own skin.
But for balance, the purpose of ignoring parts of me...to feel connected also? like to myself and the community? Like a reflection? Not sure what I'm saying...like acknowledging "the numbness" by being numb, or the ignorance by ignoring it.... (I'm looking off to the right with my eyes going "we'll just keep that thought over there, thankyou, yes, under the grapefruit tree next to the back door")
"An opportunity to connect with ourselves" is a lovely, and perhaps, I feel could be sometimes, a bittersweet way to look at choices.
I love feeling that I am connected to myself, even in knowing that I am vaguely connected to myself. If I know, I don't know, and if I don't know, I don't know, isn't that the saying?
I go to visit a lawyer about my financial separation tomorrow.
My sister gave birth earlier than expected. Sweet Victoria was born yesterday.
There's a cold gentle rain starting to come down and letting up all within the writing of this sentence!
Shelley
Gabrielle Adam
Sep 2, 2012, 6:14:44 PM9/2/12
to compassionate...@googlegroups.com
Hi Shelley,
I was reading what you'd written again and wondered about the question you ask about what makes a choice right or wrong and so a part of me is wondering, could a choice be perceived as right or wrong based on a part of us' expected outcome?
For me, I categorize every event either as right/wrong, good/bad, white/black but a part of me wonders what about all the other colours of the universe....I guess what I'm saying is if things aren't as they seem then is there maybe a reason for a part of us making a choice beyond the outcome?
Gaby
Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2012 14:48:17 +1200
Subject: Re: {Compassionate Communication}36 How I compassionately communicate
From: shelley...@gmail.com
To: compassionate...@googlegroups.com
Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2012 14:48:17 +1200
Subject: Re: {Compassionate Communication}36 How I compassionately communicate
From: shelley...@gmail.com
To: compassionate...@googlegroups.com
shelley.a.quinn
Oct 7, 2012, 10:02:30 PM10/7/12
to compassionate...@googlegroups.com
Hey everyone!
I just happened to google across a website on sex education and feminist stuff by Betty Dodson and Carlin Ross. I have found it really really enlightening, and it definitely makes me question my own ideas on the right and wrong in well, all sorts of relationships!
Wow! I really enjoy the podcasts and videos and thought to share them here in this thread. Rich, maybe this could go along with your original topic?
"Betty Dodson and Carlin Ross are two intergenerational, sex-positive feminists whose dialogue on sexuality and feminism entertains and educates while delving into the Politics of Women’s Sexuality"
http://dodsonandross.com
I recommend watching "Hot Monogamy"
From my eyes, their ideas/appoaches seem to be pretty healthy and nurturing. Seems to tie into the self communication as well... ;-)
Sweet!
Shelley
I just happened to google across a website on sex education and feminist stuff by Betty Dodson and Carlin Ross. I have found it really really enlightening, and it definitely makes me question my own ideas on the right and wrong in well, all sorts of relationships!
Wow! I really enjoy the podcasts and videos and thought to share them here in this thread. Rich, maybe this could go along with your original topic?
"Betty Dodson and Carlin Ross are two intergenerational, sex-positive feminists whose dialogue on sexuality and feminism entertains and educates while delving into the Politics of Women’s Sexuality"
http://dodsonandross.com
I recommend watching "Hot Monogamy"
From my eyes, their ideas/appoaches seem to be pretty healthy and nurturing. Seems to tie into the self communication as well... ;-)
Sweet!
Shelley
Gaby
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