Assistance with Jobs on C28

[mm]

Dear colleagues

After a prolonged period away from the boat with major health issues, she is coming out for antifouling next week, and I have several jobs I want to get done to tidy her up over the coming months.

1. Auto bilge pump - do I tap into the existing manual bilge pump system or do I get another fitting put into the boat, specifically for the new automatic pump?  Any preferred brands/models for the pump?  Routing tips for the wiring and hose?

2. Re-varnishing internal timber - what product would you recommend for re-varnishing the interior timber?

3. Re-finishing bilge cover boards - what product would you recommend for re-finishing the bilge cover boards with the goals of providing protection and maximising grip?

4. Stains on internal gelcoat - where I can't remove stains from internal gelcoat, should I paint or re-gelcoat?  Recommended products?

5. Windows - I did some research on replacing the windows before I fell ill and had settled on the use of the 3M tape rather than drilling and screwing new windows on.  Has anyone got any newer information on the best option for replacing the windows, which are in a poor state and leaking.

6. Dorados - looking for some ideas on design, construction and fitting of dorados to the current locations that have simple mushroom fittings.  I have a workshop at home with a good range of woodworking tools.

Thanks colleagues.  I look forward to your collective wisdom helping me avoid poor decisions going forward with these jobs.

Michael

0419 638 344

[Mando C29]

Hello Michael,

I may be able to assist you (or offer suggestions) with a few of your points.

1. I'm assuming that your current manual bilge pump (whaler) discharges water out through the transom.

Most probably not a bad idea to leave all that alone and fit a new discharge point along side.

A couple of questions: Do you normally ever get water in the boat? When would you likely get water in the boat

or this only in case you have a failure of a fitting etc? If a failure occurred and you were not there, is there any way 

some sort of an alarm would be heard by near-by boaties or residents?
The reason I'm asking this is my boat only ever had a manual bilge pump. Checking for water in the bilge was one of my pre start checks. If there was water in the bilge, I would want to know where it came from and why. If you did have a failure and you weren't there, an auto pump would only run until the battery went flat !

If you feel more comfortable having one, there are 2 options. One, seperate pump and switch-this allows you to mount the pump low as you can then mount the switch at a height that you best see fit. Option 2 is a combination 

switch and pump. The best brand is Rule (American). The pump must be readily accessible so that the filter can be cleaned on a regular basis. All connections in that area should be soldered joints with glue filled heat shrink over them. Wiring for the pump should by-pass the Master Isolator so that it is the only thing "alive" when you leave the boat. Therefore, make sure this wiring is Marine Grade 4mm twin in convoluting tube with lots of fixings so that is well and truly out of the road of ever being damaged!

I think I've banged on enough on this one, I can answer more of your questions if you like!

Regards,

Maurice.

[Maeling]

Thanks Maurice, always willing to take serious professional advice.  I must check Maeling for water in the low sump I have.  Sobering that a major leak could overcome the battery feeding the auto - pump - then it all goes to the bottom!!

Geoff

[mm]

Hi Maurice

Thank you for the thoughtful questions.  The boat has taken on water twice during periods of sustained illness and inability to get to the boat.  The first time we identified the primary source as the seal on the propeller shaft and had it replaced.

The second instance was recent, and I don't know if I can identify a single source for the water ingress. There are a number of sources that appear to have contributed to the ingress, windows, hatch seals, blocked scuppers in the cockpit.

Whilst I am now more mobile and keen to use the boat regularly and bring it up to a solid standard, addressing the potential water ingress points noted above, I was considering the value of having the extra capability of the automatic pump.

My manual pump feeds through the hull on the port side near the stern.

More food for thought.

Michael

[Mando C29]

Hello Michael,

Good on you for trying to bring the boat up to a reasonable standard (it's worth it) and fingers crossed for good luck 

with your health issues!!

If you are concerned that you may get a water leak (and not know about it) whilst sailing , the Rolls Royce job is to fit 2 bilge switches. One for the pump out and the second , slightly higher , that's wire to an alarm. 

I am happy to send you a schematic on how this should be wired and cable sizes etc. Those small electronic "beepers" make a huge racket and are not expensive.

Re the best materials for inside the boat, Geoff R would be the man for this (had lots of experience).

Re windows (bloody windows), there have been numerous threads over the past. The golden rule is "cheap is dear"

and if Geoff can dig those up, I'm sure you would get some good ideas.

Re the stains, there is a cleaning product call " Gumption" which comes in the form of a white paste. With a good dolop of elbow grease you may find that this will remove a lot of the stains. Re gel coating or re painting (in my opinion) would be a last resort as there is a lots that can go wrong!

Not sure what you mean by "Dorados"? Sounds like a Mexican Taco!! Maybe down south we call it something different.

See how you go,

Cheers,

Maurice.

[mm]

Hi Maurice

I would certainly appreciate the wiring diagram and specifications.  I may not decide to go ahead with it, but will be good to have the information on hand if I do.

Hopefully Geoff will chip in with the internal finishing recommendations as you suggest.

The 'Dorados' was a silly typo which I didn't pick up until I had posted the conversation and couldn't work out how to edit it.  What I meant was Dorades, the combination of a revolving entry device or vent mounted to a box with internal baffles and a shaft coming up from within the boat to stimulate airflow and prevent water from entering the cabin.  I've found a couple of basic examples online which I could adapt.  With the hatches closed and the two basic mushroom air vents closed, it quickly becomes a great environment for mold.

Thanks again for the support, it is very much appreciated.

Michael

[David Grigg]

Hi Michael,

My 10c worth;

Re bilge pumps, I have a manual set up much as you describe, and an electric pump with independent piping parallel with the manual system. There is just enough room to run one discharge pipe either side of the stern tube. The pipe for the electric system has an anti-siphon loop just before (separately) discharging through the hull on the port quarter. The electric pump has an internal float switch and a 2 way switch for auto or manual control. The pump is wired direct to the battery (with fuse) so it can be left on auto when the battery isolation switch is off. I was tempted to put in a non return valve after the pump to prevent water in the pipe running back into the bilge, but collective advice suggests not doing this. Less to go wrong/ get blocked I guess. 

Having said all this it rarely gets used now except when deliberately flooding the bilge to clean it. The biggest contributors to water in the bilge were a dripping propshaft seal, leaking stanchion bases and blocked forehatch drains, but i have fixed these now and the bilge stays dry, or only enough to get with a small sponge. I haven't had too much of an issue with windows. They do weep a bit though.

Re dorade vents I would be reluctant to add anything that will stick up on deck. More to foul the mainsheet or stub toes. I have a low profile solar vent in the centre of the coachhouse roof which is still going after 5 years. I never open the mushroom vents as they are begging to get broken off if left open. I found that my mould problems pretty much disappeared once I addressed the leaks anyway. 

Re interior varnish I've used a satin water-based polyurethane which is still looking good after a year in the tropics now. I didn't go gloss as this shows up all the imperfections more.

Regards

David

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[mm]

Hi David

Thank you.  Some great advice to help me make the decisions I need to make as quickly and decisively as possible.

I'm looking forward to finally getting the boat into a nice, clean, sharp-looking state.  I am concerned I have several points of ingress for water which are going to take some time to identify and eliminate.

Michael

[Maeling]

Where to start? The ventilation starts at the anchor locker, I have a 75mm cowl vent on the hatch lid. On the cabin roof, I have 2  x 75mm cowls (port and stbd) and aft on the cockpit surround, a 75mm Cowl.  I forgot the 75mm hole and a screw in bung between the forecabin and anchor locker.  My theory is, at anchor a draft comes in the cockpit cowl and through the two saloon vents with the anchor locker hatch vent. The boat is always sweet smelling  This hex pic is the cleaning hole in the forepeak to allow cleaning.  I keep this tank empty, for the day we go on a long cruise and don't want fibreglass tasting water.  The galley rack set up is from another C29 - apologies, I'm short on time to get the titles right. and doesn't use any power

[mm]

Hi Geoff

Thank you for taking the time to provide your advice.  You have certainly established a comprehensive approach to keeping fresh air flowing through the boat.

I will have the boat at the marina in Lake Macquarie for about a week after the antifouling to get as much done as I can.  I am aiming to put together the ideas shared here into a plan and make sure I have a clear workflow thought out for each job and all materials on hand so no time is wasted.

Thanks again to all who have provided their collective wisdom to the project.  It is very much appreciated.

Michael

[Maeling]

Good on you, what is your boat's name?

Geoff

[mm]

Hi Geoff

My C28 was named Bittersweet when I bought it, and although not loving the name, I decided to leave well enough alone.

Bittersweet is normally on a swing mooring in Cockle Bay, a quiet little bay, one across from Marmong Point, where Empire Marina is.

With maintenance and insurance costs rising pretty rapidly, and me stumbling into retirement, I'm not sure how long I will be able to keep the dream alive.  At least she will be in a better state than when I got her for the next owner, when that fateful day comes.

Michael

[mm]

Interesting that I was able to purchase three rolls of the 3M tape for the window replacement from the UK and have it delivered to my home in under a week.  Very hard to source in Australia without a long wait or having to buy a box of 10 rolls.

Can anyone suggest a practical workflow for removing the old aluminium/glass windows?

Michael

[mm]

The tape recommended in the videos I watched, and an article I found a few years ago online, is 3M VHB 5952F.  The edges of the new window are then sealed with Dow 795 sealant.  I was advised by one of the distributors of the 3M tape in Australia to try to keep a gap between the tape and the edge sealant as the two chemical structures may interact over time.

I purchased the polycarbonate sheet for the windows yesterday from Mulford Plastics in Mayfield for $350 and I'm going out to trace the existing windows onto plastic sheet this morning.  I will need to remove one of the windows to check the distance between the window cutout and the edge of the old frames to see if there is enough space for the tape and sealer or whether I need to make the windows a bit larger to allow enough room for both.

Michael

[mm]

Templates for the large and small windows on the C28 made from plastic purchased from Officeworks.  Stuck the plastic to the side of the boat and traced around the window frame as well as I could, kneeling on the marina, then tidied it up with my old geometry tools and added 10mm all round at home.

The team at Endeavour Marine, based at Empire Marina at Lake Macquarie use the same technique with the 3 VHB tape and Dow 795 sealer and one of the guys came down to the boat and talked me through their process.  They generously offered to sell me a few tubes of the Dow 795 sealer which took them 8 months to source from the US.  I couldn't find it anywhere in the Hunter region or beyond.  Very rare to see such thoughtfulness and generosity of spirit.

Start pulling the old windows out over the weekend.  Will probably put temporary covers on initially and fit the new windows one at a time.  You can't use the 3M tape over 25 degrees celsius so I will only be able to work early in the mornings.

Happy to share the templates if anyone else decides to have a go at their windows.

Michael

[mm]

Starboard side windows done.  Hopefully get the port side done before 28 December when I'm due to head back to the swing mooring.

I also need to correct an earlier error.  It was Josh and Murdoch at On Point Shipwright group that were extremely helpful with the window replacement strategy and taking the risk to sell me three tubes of Dow 795 out of stock, after waiting 8 months for it to arrive.

The windows make a significant difference to the look of the boat, as well as addressing some substantial leaks, and I'm pleased I decided to take it on.

I bought a full sheet of polycarbonate and have enough left to make another set of eight windows if anyone is interested.  If you have the same old windows that I had I'd be happy to cut them from the templates I made.

Michael

[MrSeaDragon]

Wow, Great job Michael !! Well done. I do find that its well worth doing a bit of research and doing things yourself !!

Just to clarify my understanding of your process, The 3M tape goes between the fiberglass and the overlap of the polycarbonate and its job is to hold the windows on, and the 795 "edge sealant" goes around the edge to stop the water coming in, and you've kept the 3M tape a bit in from the edge so they don't interact ?? And I guess you used the 795 specifically, because it is good with polycarbonate ?

Did you need to use a primer with either the tape or the sealant ??

I love seeing it when folks have a go at doing good work on their boats themselves. Congratulations !

Kind regards,

Greg.

C29 - SeaDragon