Nanni 2.14 starter wiring

[Kyeemah]

I'm still here!
I've finally got the Nanni 2.14 back in the boat. But...Its been so long I cant remember the starter wiring. I recall some people had Nanni 2.14s.
What looks to me like a solenoid, Nanni call the starter on the port side (installed) of the engine.
What's the start battery wiring setup? There's one large gauge wire from the alternator connected to one of two large terminals on the back of the starter. Is it battery positive to that terminal and battery negative to engine earth? Which makes me wonder what the other terminal is for.
I take it the wire from the alternator to the starter is the alternator positive out?
Ian

[Maeling]

Ian, we've only got 4 Nanni's in the Group.  1 I can't contact, 1 I wouldn't trust with more than a shackle spanner (he probably agrees) plus the others.  I am hoping another chap is listening.  I believe all modern engines are negative earth.  I think positive earth went out with British stuff in the 1950's. But can understand your caution, have you tried Mrs Google.

Geoff Raebel

[Dave - C28 "Ginsyl"]

Geoff, I had a 1968 Mini with positive earth. Really annoying for a teenager wanting LOUD music. Ended up using blocks of timber to isolate hardware from the chassis. No fires!

Cooee!
Dave

[Kyeemah]

Thanks Geoff. Negative earth. "1 I wouldn't trust with more than a shackle spanner". I'm sure he's probably good looking. I was going to say wiring up the engine was the last piece of the puzzle, but then I got thinking...

[Kyeemah]

PS. Yes did the google thing. No luck. I have the original manuals but not a mention, and not a picture of it installed. I did download a bunch of photos of a Nanni fit out (C29?) but nothing showing the starter. It's only the battery wires from the start battery I need to connect. Everything else is wired up.

[Kyeemah]

Well of course, as I should have done, I rang Nanni. Negative to engine block, positive to starter. I did not get a clear answer on which starter terminal: "the most obvious one", but I'm going for the one with the lead from the alternator...obviously.

[Maeling]

Bluidy Mr Lucas ! - he did the same on my MG

[Maeling]

I google "Nann1 2.1 wiring diagram" and pulled this up from Seabreeze there were several others there two including one for you sub-woofer.  On top of the starter is a small round cylinder, the starter relay - the big positive cable connects to this.  The Start switch uses a small current (on the thin grey wire) to activate the relay (yellow T) in closing a heavy-duty switch for the starter motor to pull a heavy current through the orange wire. (Not sure what colours you will see on the engine).  The stop switch to the Injector Pump solenoid works the same way. 

Geoff Raebel

Geoff Raebel

[Kyeemah]

Thanks Geoff. I tried it today. Nothing! Its getting frustrating. I managed to ask the diesel mechanic who did previous work on it regarding the wiring and it is as above. However, it wont turn over. All the instrument panel lights, oil pressure alarm etc come as they are supposed to but pushing the start button produces nothing. Pulled, cleaned and reattached loom connectors etc. Occasionally when pushing start, the injector pre-heat light comes on and there is a click from a relay attached to the wiring loom, but not always. Nothing from the starter relay; no clicks like you get on a flat battery. 13.4 volts at the starter. Power everywhere else. I have two new 100amp batteries installed so power is there.
The mechanic has taken off to the gulf for work so he's out for now. , I'll search through seabreeze. Nanni is really poor on detailed information.

[Kyeemah]

I found a Nanni workshop manual. Other than a dud starter or something wrong with the wiring somewhere, I am wondering if it is something to do with the engine stop solenoid. The engine was out of the boat for a while an had some serious work done to it.
Manual and other diagrams were at: http://extranet.nannidiesel.com:8081/Joomla/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=291%3Amanuels-datelier-n214&catid=72%3Amanuels-datelier&Itemid=97&lang=en

[Nick]

Gday ian ive got the same engine . Its currently out of the boat while im doing some major repairs on the hard stand. But all the wiring is still in place. Ill be going up to work on her at the end of the week so ill have a look and see if i can help . All the best nick

[Kyeemah]

Thanks Nick. I'm interested in the starter relay (solenoid) wiring and where I should take power from the regulator. At the moment I am assuming regulator + to charge the battery is the manufacturers wire from the back of the alternator to the relay (terminal B in the manual), which is where battery positive should go to. The workshop manual has been handy and leads me to think either the relay or starter is gone or something has gone amiss with the  engine stop solenoid (picture above) after the engine was pulled from the boat.
PS did you put an anti siphon on the raw water cooling pipe? One last question...C28 or C29?

[Nick]

Gday ian my raw water inlet goes from the through hull up to the strainer 40cm then back down to the engine. The exhaust does have an antisiphon which is simply a loop in the hose which goes up to the underside of the deck. Whenever i leave the boat i shut off the inlet valve and run the engine for 15 seconds to pump out the water from the engine exhaust box and hose.
Re the witing the big red wire from the alternator goes down to the outer most terminal of the starter solenoid.the positive cable from the battery is attached to the same terminal on the starter solenoid. Hope this helps . I can send you pics if you want my number is 0412582254

[Kyeemah]

Thanks Nick. Nanni recommend an anti-siphon in the raw water line after the impeller. I have installed a fancy vetus water lock in the exhaust. Pricey but good and just fits above the prop shaft. for the raw water anti-siphonI have read about a simple 'pee' hose which consists of a T piece in the raw water hose just after the radiator type cap on top of the engine. The up part is a narrow hose which pushes out a little bit of water into the cockpit/overboard.

John McKeown has told me the stop solenoid only stops fuel. Damn. Back to the starter.

I like the idea of running the engine dry for 15 secs to pump out water.

[Maeling]

Ian, Not sure what you are like on electrics but you need to be sure that the thin wire from the starter switch to the solenoid is getting power.  With a multimeter on 12V DC, disconnect the wire ground the black multimeter lead (I slip on a crocodile clip) and put the red lead to the thin wire taken off the solenoid.  Fingers clear and flick the starter - does the multimeter pick up the voltage?  Then between the two heavy wires on the solenoid, with it just sitting there with the battery isolation switch on, you should be able to measure 12V between the two.  That should tell you that you have power coming from the starter switch and you have power up to the starter.

The stop solenoid works on the same principle but has much less pulling power but is getting its power from behind the instrument panel

Keep on having fun!

Geoff Raebel

[Kyeemah]

"Not sure what you are like on electrics" I was an 'early adopter' at Dick Smiths but more likely to pay someone now. Yes! I found a great youtube instructable on you advice. I am going down tomorrow, armed with the multimeter. "Keep on having fun!". Grrrr (the sound that Lurch of the Adams Family made).

[Maeling]

Had a concerned call from a professional yesterday. "tell him to be careful, He's got 200 amps in that battery trying to get out.  Wiring things wrongly he could blow a regulator or putting a strong current down a thin wire, start a fire. He suggested that if there is more than one wire on the terminal of the solenoid, disconnect all except the one from the battery (apparently some people use that terminal as a LIVE bus) Then do your trouble shooting so you reduce the chances of complications.

Geoff Raebel

[Kyeemah]

I appreciate the concern and advice. Will do as he said... and have the extinguisher and fire blanket handy just in case.

[Kyeemah]

Got the engine started...
Turned out to be the start button. Bit of wasp mud in there. It ran nicely for 15 minutes then stopped of its own accord. Would then start, run a few seconds and stop. I figured that one to be fuel. I will review my current setup and simplify. The troubling bit was I finally got it to run but it would not shut down. Turning the off key just turned off the ignition lights and the engine kept running. After that, it would not turn over. Just a click from a relay and the injector preheating lamp came on. There was a low voltage warning (11.8 to 12v) so i'm not sure if that was the no start reason. Oh well, went well while it ran.

[Maeling]

It's a diesel! All it needs is fuel, air and compression heat and it will run forever until it seizes.

You'll need to track further.  Firstly, there's a second solenoid on the injector for the fuel shut off.  I expect there is a little lever on or near the solenoid that will be a manual fuel shut off.  Secondly you need to disconnect the wire off the solenoid and check it is getting 12v when you press the stop button.  Unless catastrophic, problems are usually simple, don't overanalyse expecting the worst.  On starting, I don't know how you stopped it.  I was once ordered to cut a fuel like on a Bukh10 - they run for 10 mins after!  Yours sound like a fuel delivery problem or air.

Geoff Raebel

[Maeling]

Re reading, I take back what I said about fuel, if it won't turn over - back to the switch, solenoid or battery

Geoff Raebel

[Kyeemah]

Yes there might be a couple of problems. The start button may have reverted, though the 'response' was different than before: relay click, preheat light and low battery warning. I checked the starter (good), start solenoid trigger wire (no volts) previously which led me back to the start button. Engine off is via the ignition key. Perhaps that's a bit junky as well or the stop solenoid has a problem. New battery (100amp deep cycle) but turned over so many times I guess. Pretty sure there is also some fuel delivery bottlenecks. Everything has been sitting around unused for 2 years. Yes it is possible to shut down the engine manually with the stop solenoid. Anyway, there was 15 minutes of joy while it ran!

[Maeling]

I doubt the solenoid will give any trouble.  I don't have a Nanni but typically the starter solenoid wire will come off the ignition.  The stop solenoid wire is normally connected to a momentary switch under a squishy rubber button on the panel and needs to be held down until the engine actually runs out of fuel and dies.  Check that you haven't crossed these wires and don't (Accidentally) start the engine with anyone's hands in the way.  

Geoff Raebel

[Kyeemah]

The Nanni shuts down via the ignition key. The button is only for starting: Ignition key on, press start button. Ignition key off, engine off. So the stop solenoid might be energised to open the fuel and de-energised which turns off the fuel...I'm guessing.

[john.skid]

Hi if I may put in my fiew words. We have a Nanni 3.9 in ourC30Sabra2 it runs like a dream
From the makers hand book "under no circumstances should the key switch be turned off whilst the engine is running"
Dooingthis open circuits the regulator and could burn it out
To stop the engine in an emergency you can over ride the throttle control on the injection pump beyond the idle position
Some pumps also have a seperate cut off lever with a solenoid attached our engine has the solenoid disconnected and a manual pull to stop Bowden cable installed giving positive manual control.
With regard to the engine shutting its self down my gues is an almost blocked fuel filter or fuel supply line. over time the fuel system down stream of the partial blockage will fill up , when the engine starts it uses this fuel,due to the blockage insufficient fuel will be able to flow to sustain normal operation.
Fix replace all the filters in the fuel system blow back the fuel lines to the tank this includes the return to tank spill line from the injection pump when this is complete bleed the system.
Hope this will fix the problem. If not give me a call and I will talk you thru a trouble shoot kind regards Skid

[Kyeemah]

Thanks Skid. I may take you up on that offer. I'll see how I go. RE: "under no circumstances should the key switch be turned off whilst the engine is running". The 2.14 does not have a stop button/cable etc. Mind you, my tractor has a stop cable and I frequently forget to turn the ignition off after stopping and flatten the battery (I now feel like I should go down to the shed and check). The 2.14 is switched off via the key (as per the operators manual) which triggers the stop solenoid as it sounds like yours was?. For some reason the solenoid did not work. There is a stop trip lever on the solenoid though. Everything's been sitting in a shed for a couple of years. Plus the boat and fuel system on the water. I will have to give it a good go over. Though I am happy the motor runs. I might take a look at the Bowden cable option.

[Kyeemah]

Got my engine running...I had forgotten to bleed the pre-filter... It is gravity fed but I put in a small fuel pump courtesy of Supercheap to make it  easier to bleed the fuel lines.
The stop solenoid still does not work. Either the relay or the solenoid is stuffed I think. I still have to check voltages. I was just happy to have the engine going reliably.
Ian