Sailing my new C28 from Sydney to Melbourne

[Matt]

I'm the new owner of "Magpie", a C28 currently located in Church Point, Sydney.

I live in Melbourne and the plan is/was to have her brought to Melbourne by Truck.

But i can't help wondering if in fact it is possible for me to sail her to Melbourne. I'd be very interested in the opinions of this group as to how doable this is.

I'm graduating up from trailer sailering, so the only offshore sailing experience i have is in other peoples' boats, as crew.

One idea was to hire a delivery skipper for the first few days to show me the ropes, then i would carry on by myself.

The boat is well equipped for day sailing with good sails, furler, reefing lines and anchor. I know i'll need a storm jib, but what other gear would i need to take her offshore? I had a survey done and the motor is in good nick, all standing and running rigging replaced two years ago, no osmosis, and the through hulls have been checked and given the thumbs up. Two new-ish batteries charged from the engine, no solar panels.

What do you reckon, is sailing her to Melbourne madness? I have the time next month, and it would save me about $4k, which is what the trucking/slipping/de-rigging etc. will cost.

Thanks, Matt

[CraigH]

Hi Matt,

Personally I would advise against doing it single handed, unless you have enough time to do it with the ability to pick your weather windows. If you had the time and have done your planning well you could very well do a slow cruise down, but even this can be dangerous by yourself on a vessel you are not familiar with.

I recently picked up Mudlark, our C28 from Mackay and sailed her single handed to Townsville, and would never attempt it again in the time I had. It was an experience I could only describe as hours of boredom punctuated by moments of sheer terror.

If you need a list of recommended equipment I could provide you one that I obtained from a delivery skipper when I was considering that option.

Best of luck.

Craig

[michael]

No reason it can not be done. The only thing is wether you feel capable. If the vessel is seaworthy then these vessels have done this type of trip many times. This trip to Melbourne can be broken into "day trips: for most of the way down the coast if you want.

A good auto pilot is a must, just for comfort if nothing else. A good supply of fuel so if the wind runs out you can keep going, water, food snacks and warm/dry clothing. Along with the obvious safety/nav equipment.

Go for it, and have the experiance and memories. You can always stop off and take a rest as you go - assuming you have the time to spare.

Cheers

Michael

N28

On Tuesday, July 16, 2013 9:42:01 AM UTC+10, Matt wrote:

[Matt]

Thanks for the replies - please keep 'em coming.

I have a period of three weeks next month when I could make the trip. I'm wondering if that's enough time to do some sails around Pittwater to test that everything works, then sail to Melbourne with day hops, waiting out bad weather in various harbours?

I just bought Alan Lucas's book on cruising the NSW coast.

The autopilot is a hardly-used Autohelm 800. Ultimately I'd love a wind-vane, i like the Norvane best, but I've got to take care to not spend up a storm.

I'd buy a storm jib and practice with it. What's best? One that goes around the furled headsail, like the "Galesail", or one on it's own inner stay?

I hadn't thought of buying a drogue. Again, ultimately I'd love one, a ready-made Jordan series drogue from Ace sail-makers in the UK is $1,200.

Yes please Craig, I'd love to see the equipment list that your delivery skipper mentioned.

Ultimately I plan to sail far and wide in Magpie, so equipment I should get to sail Syd to Melb would be equipment I should eventually own anyway, it's just that I'd like to hand over cash bit by bit over coming years, rather than go on a spending spree straight after buying the boat.

Cheers,
Matt

[graeme lock]

Matt;

 

Your boat is more than capable of this trip if in good nick and properly equipped.

 

Unfortunately I have to say you are the weaker link, and would be pushing your luck without some significant coastal/offshore experience. This should include plenty of night sailing and lengthy solo-ing, to experience the fatigue issue. Experienced crew would make all the diference, and/or doing it at a better time (which is obviously not possible).

 

Sorry to be a party-pooper, but I'd advise you to spend the $4K, then enjoy learning your stuff in PPB for a few months and then head out for King Island, Wilson's Prom etc.

 

Whichever way you decide to go, best of luck, and enjoy your boat.

 

Cheers, Graeme

 

 

 

 

 

Matt

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[CraigH]

Hi again Matt,

Just to point out that I was not suggesting that it cannot be done, its just that you mentioned your sailing experience was "crewing on other peoples boats", this could mean you have either been fully engaged and learning over years of crewing through to you have sat on someones boat once a week for nigh on a fortnight now.

My suggestion was merely that caution should prevail over encouraged bravado given the lack of detail as to your sailing experience, given it is your life and money on the line.  The vessel is, when in good order, capable of the trip, though you seem unfamiliar with it, perhaps I am wrong, but that was part of my reason for caution.

Cheers

Craig

On Tuesday, July 16, 2013 9:42:01 AM UTC+10, Matt wrote:

[Matt]

Thanks Craig, i appreciate the advice.

To clarify my experience, Magpie will be boat number 5 for me, my last boat being a 28 foot fin-keeled steel boat i sailed around Devonport.
The 3 boats i owned before that were trailer sailers, and i made some long and hairy trips on one of those, but mostly in protected waters, and the semi-protection of the Whitsundays.

Just about all my sailing has been solo, but I also spent three weeks cruising from Melb to Bermagui aboard a friend's Adams 31. Just the owner, one other crew and me.

So the only overnight sails I've done were on watch on the Adams through Bass Strait. And that night sailing alone in the cockpit, the others asleep, is so far the highlight of my sailing 'career'.

I am concerned about the fatigue issue, but i figure that because my future plans are to sail far and wide solo, i might as well start sooner rather than later.

"Experience" seems to work that way - seems the only way to get experience is to have...experiences.

But like I say, I'm in two minds. Maybe it is the better option to have her brought down by truck, and I should cut my teeth in PPB, working my way up to it.

[Tardis]

Hi Matt,

I'd say that three weeks in August is probably not be enough time.  Cruising sailors should always aim to be sailing downhill which ideally means NorthEasterly winds which are more plentiful in Summer than Winter. If you get very lucky with weather you might be ok, but I'd not be so sure that I'd be counting on good weather in August. Cold, strong Westerlies are pretty common. You could easily find yourself sitting in a harbour somewhere for a week at a time waiting for a weather window, running short of time, then making rash decisions to set sail in risky conditions. I'd also be nervous about tackling the stretch from Gabo Island to Melbourne in anything other than a NE breeze.

If you have limited time & can't possibly extend the duration if required, I'd be thinking about paying someone to skipper it for you. Otherwise wait until Spring / Summer.

Regards,

Paul

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[Maeling]

Matt, you've had some good advice from a lot of people who know your type of boat and the trip ahead.  I concur with all that has been said, and I think none of us would suggest you should take a new boat solo on that trip under time limit pressure. We lost a C29 about 5 years ago mid-strait. They took a lot more than a week to get to Eden, due weather.  After a further wait, the professional delivery skipper set out solo and unauthorised.  60 hours later he was lucky to have been pulled off by a fishing boat, The C29 was lost/uninsured. 

Experience you can pick up along the way given your background, it is the time that is your enemy and could well push you into a rash decision. Think of the next 10 years of enjoying C28 "Magpie"

Best Wishes

Geoff Raebel

[Colin from Moonlight Lady]

Matt,

You seem to have a good deal of experience and this is obviously a big adventure for you. If it was me I'd do it. Mark Twain said something about casting off the bow lines... You will always regret missing your opportunity.

As notede, YOU are the weak link. Probably not the yacht. But it IS a new yacht to you and you don't know the weak spots if there are any. You'd need to check very carefully to ensure it's in top condition and up to the task.

You'd need to check your weather windows carefully AND ensure that you have plenty of "bail-out holes" like Eden where you could stop if needed and maybe even leave the yacht and go home. Thats aid I don't think there are many "bailout holes" between Eden and Port Philip Bay. I have never sailed down there.

We have sailed up as far as Port Macquarrie and it was nice sailing - although much of it head wind. We will always remember that.

At the end of the day it's your decision of course. But we can be too pampered and never follow our dreams.

If you could install a vane I think you would love that. We have a Fleming (Aussie made in Melbourne) and it is great. Draws no power, easy to use - once you learn how... But of course if the wind changes it changes your course! But makes a long trip much easier.

If it was me my greatest "fear" would be going into Bass Straight and around the Prom. But people do it...

I am jealous :-)

Colin

[Jim]

G'day Matt

As stated previoulsy you've had some very good advise and yes the boat is more than capable of the trip. You mentioned hiring a delivery skipper for a couple of days, I would recommend hiring someone for the whole trip as the experience you will gain will far outweight the cost. My father brought his boat from Bunderberg to Pittwater and we hired a skipper for the whole trip and to this day every time I think about that trip I smile, it was a fantastic adventure and something I could not recommend more highly to anyone. Having said all that if you plan on taking the trip you'll need to allow for at least double the time planned or to leave the boat somewhere in case of weather. You also noted that the surveyor said the engine was in good nick, is the surveyor a mechanic or a shipwright and he perform a compression test and sample the oil. I had my boat surveyed in Port Stephens and was told the engine was in good nick and when I brought her back to Pittwater I had to make two trips with a one week stop over in Newcastle due to weather and motoring all the way, once in Pittwater I made two twenty minute trips and then the motor over heated and seized. So before under taking asuch a trip with a new boat I would having the engine inspected by a mechanic. Are you in Sydney at the moment?

Cheers
Jim

[graeme lock]

Oh dear, it all sounds like bad vibes and envy from the rest of us doesn't it? But it's not - I am speaking from experience and genuine concern, as are the other contributors.

 

Re the engine, whatever its condition good or bad, as a minimum you must know how to replace the water pump impeller and fuel filters, and bleed the fuel system almost blindfold (think engine failure in 40 knots). This means you'll have to have done each of these things several times, and have spares and all tools.

Cheers, Graeme

 

[Matt]

Hmm, well if this was a democracy i'd have to admit that the "nays" have it.

It could be a wonderful adventure, but i don't really have the time to:
Sea trials around Pittwater.
Check everything and replace suspect items.
Practice the engine work mentioned in a post.
Buy & install heavy weather gear.
Day-sail down the coast, waiting out weather in harbours along the way.

Probably better to graduate from newbie to advanced by taking baby steps in PPB.

Still, i can dream!
Thanks for the advice from those in the know.

Regarding the survey and the motor; the surveyor didn't like the look of one oil hose and recommended replacement. The mechanic replaced the hose and looked over the engine. But no, there was no oil sampling or compression testing. It's a Yanmar 2GM20, with no hour counter installed.

[Maeling]

Well she's got plenty of power and the engine less than 10 years old.  I don't take anything back, I've done some very dumb things but I can't suggest anyone follow suit, I've just been lucky. Had a friend with kids on board nearly lose a 35 footer on the Swansea Bar 18 months ago, he was lucky too. We only get one chance at this life - enjoy it! And build on it.

Geoff Raebel

[Matt]

Hey Colin,

You wrote: "If you could install a vane I think you would love that. We have a Fleming (Aussie made in Melbourne) and it is great."

I just looked them up and they do indeed look like a nice piece of kit.

But $5k! Whoa!

The USA-made Norvane comes in at under $2k. Is the Fleming THAT much better?

I want to support local businesses, but struth.

Matt

[Admin]

Hi Matt,

 

WOW! They have certainly increased in price! I paid around $3,000 a few years back. I bought it from Kevin Fleming himself but he’s since retired and gone driving (not sailing!) around Aussie.  He sold out to the Melbourne crowd.

 

I can’t really compare or comment on the differences. It would need to be a lot to make up for the difference in price.

 

It IS a nice bit of gear and is what Jessica Watson used when she circumnavigated. Although she probably got it as a sponsorship J

 

Hope this helps a little?

 

Colin

[Dave - C28 "Ginsyl"]

There's a used "Monitor" vane on Ebay starting at $2500.  Item 111122912552. Never heard of them but looks sturdy. Comes with many spares it seems.

Cooee!
Dave

On Tuesday, July 16, 2013 9:42:01 AM UTC+10, Matt wrote:

[Nathan Wheat]

Matt,

Congrats on the purchase, I wish I was in a position to do such a trip as well. But I have neither the time nor the confidence to skipper on the high seas yet. I am in Melbourne and haven't yet ventured Elastic Sky through the heads. One day, one day.

By the way - do you know Mark Pieters? I'm certain he mentioned that a friend of his was buying a Compass out of Sydney, having had a steel boat...

[Matt]

Nathan,
Thanks mate.
Mark Pieters; the name rings a bell, but I'm terrible with names...
Can't quite place him just at the minute.
Where's your boat moored?
I'm mooring Magpie in Williamstown when she gets here. Expensive but convenient for a few months anyway, until I find something cheaper.
Matt

[Les Fairwind]

Hi Matt

 

Count me in with the YAYS !  Go for it, but the biggest amount of time should be spent on planning.

 

The idea is to head out to the 200 metre line and take the Great East Aussie Current south.  It will give you up to 3 knots advantage.  I recently delivered a yacht from Tin Can Bay (Queensland) to Westernport Bay, took 5 days from TCB to Twofold Bay, then 2 days round to Yaringa in Westernport.  Sat two days in Twofold for a southerly to blow out, but was a pleasant trip with just the owner and myself aboard.  But for long trips, an autopilot is your best friend.  Almost an essential friend.  Keep south of the Bass Strait Oilfields, you don't want to make the Vic coast a lee shore if you can avoid it.

 

You should have a liferaft, and an EPIRB is a legal requirement.  Both can be hired from various places, one I know of is in Sydney.  Usually around the $300 for first week, less for each successive week.

 

Amongst other things, I am a delivery skipper myself, and if you want to talk about passagemaking down to Victoria, or elsewhere, feel free to email or ring.  My phone is 0412 029 286.

 

Regards

Les Fairwind

[Matt]

Thanks Les,
I'm 80% sure i'll go the deliver-by-truck route, but just out of curiosity, what would your fee be to deliver the C28, with me as crew, from Pittwater to Williamstown, and how much time would need to be set aside?
Matt

[Nathan Wheat]

Matt,

I'm moored in Williamstown, off Ferguson pier. Based out of HBYC.

[graeme lock]

Matt and Nathan;

 

More power to C28's in PPB! I have Felissity on a swing mooring at Sandringham.

Might be time for an armada of C28's for a trip out the Heads.........

 

If you really want to learn about the Heads, the ORCV's "Rip Tour" is highly recommended. It's a guided tour of the area on a large motor boat - Google ORCV. 

 

cheers, graeme 

 

 

On 20 July 2013 22:03, Nathan Wheat <nat...@wheat.id.au> wrote:

Matt,

I'm moored in Williamstown, off Ferguson pier.  Based out of HBYC.

[Les Fairwind]

Hi Matt

 

Send me an email, mine is les....@hotmail.com.au , better not choke up this Group string as a chat line.  Or ring me if you prefer, 0412 029 286.  I'll do some calcs, but I am sure it will be less than the $4000 you have been quoted for the trucking, and you wouldn't have to de-rig and re-rig before and after.

 

Catch you soon,

Les

[Matt]

Avast!
The PPB C28 Armada on the prowl - the scourge of fish and chip shop owners the length and breadth of this inland sea...

[Maeling]

Good one - be pleased to hear more on where this goes beside PPB

G

[Soulfullspirit]

Hi Mat the best advice that has been said here is about the prevailing Winds in August the chance of being hit by storm force Westerly winds at this time of year are astronomical, not only that it is winter, if you want some idea of how miserable, cold, and frightening it can be, without the thought of even being in Bass straight  stand down on the fore shore of PFB in the next Westerly blow then get back in your car with the heater on full bore and enjoy the reality check.
This trip is very doable in a compass 28, i know of it being done in 2 open boats one was a 30ft diamond also an Endeavor 24, so my suggestion to you is save  the $4000 (it will still cost you as you will have to buy gear for the trip plus food any breakages, fuel,one or two marinas ,maybe a tow in by VMR if the life saving engine does what it always does and wont start when you really need it) wait until summer when the prevailing winds come round to the north, then run down the slippery dip as  gentleman do, maybe watch the Sydney Hobart race start, take your shirt off look around and think to yourself how lucky you are to be enjoying this life experience.
August my friend is the month you look at the Giant and have not got a hope in hell, Lakes Entrance and Port Phillip bay entrance are the entrances from hell and you will be heading to them hoping for refuge. stand by the shore in a storm and feel the fear, a fully professional grew would only be able to ride out a storm in August after you turn the corner you are trying to go the wrong way, as a matter  fact i wouldnt even want to be running in that kind of weather IMHO

[Nathan Wheat]

Matt,

More than happy to put together a fleet of C28s and C29s in the bay - raiding the fish n chips all around.  And I did hear about the ORCV tour this year, but wasn't able to take the opportunity this time.  Will look to it next time.

No rush mate - don't go getting into trouble in your haste to bring the girl down here.  Much better to enjoy the trip and do a proper job of it.  Seamanship is much more about avoiding disaster than it is about dealing with it.

Nathan.

[Matt]

Thanks Soulfullspirit.
I've mentioned above that all the gear I'd need to buy to sail down is gear on the long term shopping list anyhow.
Even so, I've decided to have her brought to PPB by truck, as mentioned above.
I can't leave her where she is, so unless someone can find me a free Sydney mooring for 5 months, then waiting until summer to sail her back won't work either, would cost more than the trucking.
Nathan - see you on the water!

[Matt]

The Magpie has landed!
Robert Honey delivered her yesterday to the Royal YC in Williamstown, she was plonked in the water by the travel lift, and a rigger raised the mast and connected all the strings.
After jump-staring the motor (flat batteries) we motored her over to the Anchorage Marina, where I've paid for one month's mooring.
Next steps are giving her a good scrub, doing an inventory of all her stuff, prepare her for life on a swing mooring.
Matt

[graeme lock]

Congratulations Matt, good luck with it all.

 

Must convene the PPB Compass Armada, and pillage faraway exotic ports like Queenscliff.........

 

Graeme

 

 

 

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