C29 CABIN WIRING SAFETY CONCERN

[XSD-POP]

To all Compass Yachties,

Last night I had smoke in the cabin but can’t identify the exact source.

The ‘V’ berth light quite often flickers & I noticed last night the toilet room light flickered. I ignored it but slightly concerned. Within 1/2hr there was smoke. The fire extinguisher was in my hands waiting.

I had always intended to replace the cabin lighting wiring but cannot find any space in the cabin roof to add a new wire. The current wires do not move a mm & it appears there is no recess for the wire.

However I am very sure, the problem is with this wiring, so last night I replaced the cabin wiring but is sitting in the cabin & ‘V’ berth until I can find a solution to hide them.

I have not checked Mr Sea Dragon notes but perhaps Greg or Geoff can offer some advice.

Attached are a couple of pickies – excuse the paper but this is a marine office & the sun is streaming in this morning.

 

Regards, Allan H. C29 OPHELIA

 

[Stewart]

Hi Allan,

I had a similar issue on our i33 in the head. I’m not too familiar with the V berth arrangement on the 29; however, in the main cabin you could probably run a new cable in between the roof liner and the deck. It might be worth exploring the cavity to see if you can insert a “mouse” in the vicinity of the right hand side of the LED fitting. The original cable used by Compass was just ordinary un-tinned figure of eight wire. 

You might be able to use a similar approach in the V-berth.

Good luck with it.

Cheers,

Stewart

i33 LyndenLee

[Phillip of ninoxyacht]

Perhaps removing a shoe from the wall in picture 2 might help. 

But seriously, you don't say where the smoke was coming from. At a minimum you need fuses for all the circuits, and ideally a main switch on the battery(ies) to disconnect everything. I'd say that your disconnection would be from movement and/or corrosion at either the switchboard or at the lamps and any joins along the way. Each connection should be soldered, or otherwise (not ideally) put into a screwed connector. I would think that there is corrosion or movement in one of these connectors or at the terminal at/in the lamps. Checking is the only answer. 

Replacement with new, tinned wire is the only permanent remedy, and can be done one circuit at a time. Using a multimeter will help determine problems in connections, unless it is a temporary disconnection due to movement and not easily replicated, and I'm not an expert in multimeters. 

Check each connection for corrosion or movement, and replace the wiring with new. 

 

[Phillip of ninoxyacht]

My V-berth and mast wiring passes into the main cabin underneath the side decks, i.e. behind the shelving. I have taken off all the panels to poke these wires behind the sink and then behind the shelf area and then up to the switchboard. And the same on the st'bd side, I have speaker wires that are hidden behind /under panels near the shelf. Or you could introduce an aesthetic conduit in any corner. 

 

[michael]

Hi Allan,

Agree with what Stewart wrote. Fortunately for me P.O. of Pisces had replaced all (that I can see) wiring. He had also left in place many mouse (mice?) lines for future needs. I found that a good idea is to use an old measuring tape, the metal pull out type, with the end removed, to push through the space between the liner and deck head. It is flexible but strong and thin. Tie a piece of VB cord on and use it as a mouse. Don't forget to always pull a mouse through with the last wire!! You may have to cut some small holes in the liner to get in there. Convert these into new lights or cover with fancy wood work. I remember dropping a screwdriver and it punched a neat round hole in the skin of an aircraft (unpressurised). Boss said "paint a red ring round it and mark it "VENT". Stayed that way for the rest of the deployment :-)

All the best.

Michael

Pisces I33

[Maeling]

Alan, The original wiring in the C29 was fig 8 copper lamp cord and not up to 40 years service in a salt atmosphere.  As I have written in Australian Yachtsman I couldn't find a way to run wiring forward on the port side. So my main buss, is on the stbd side and runs across to a sub buss on the port side. on the Stb you can run 3/4" elec conduit along under the cabin liner lip to the forward side of the main bulkhead to another buss above the wardrobe. I ran 1/2" through into the forecabin right to the anchor Bulkhead where there is a power outlet. The mast wiring comes from the masthead, continuous to the buss on the stbd bulkhead.  In the conduit going fwd from the main buss are the Pos and Neg, heavy enough tinned wire plus the switched positive wires for the masthead  and deck lights, Where possible most of the negatives' are common with the positives are switched.  I also have a main 25 amp fuse between the battery and first buss as a master safety fuse.  Each of the switches on my old Vetus panel is fused and with a red indicator light that gives the cabin sufficient light at night for moving around.

Geoff

On Monday, May 4, 2020 at 10:12:51 AM UTC+10, XSD-POP wrote:

[XSD-POP]

Thanks for the comments.

I could not see where the smoke was coming from – I suspect from the cabin roof & down the sides into the cabin past the cable runs. Certainly not from toilet area or V berth.

I have tried with a mouse horizontal & vertical above, below & beside the windows, but the gap is zero between outer & inner fibreglass, hence why the old cable does not move.

There is no gap on the horizontal corner below the windows either.

There is a gap between the two skins of the higher cabin ceiling & I am trying to find an exit point at the DB with a mouse. I am going to replace both cabin air vents shortly so will use this opportunity as well.

It would seem the lip on port & starboard sides of the C29 was not made for the amount of cables I have going forward – 2x10mmcomms  & 8xtwin core wires.

All the cabin lighting runs thru’ the black tube fuse (middle of picky) in the attached DB photo. As you see the DB is full.

[Maeling]

Yes, the windows clamp the inner and outer skins to zero clearance.  I did find a path back from the aft-most post back to the port cabin bulkhead but was still tricky.

Geoff

[pshaw]

When replacing the cabin windows on PollyJane2 I found that there was a variable gap between the cabin top and the cabin liner of around 3mm. This had been dealt with crudely, presumably during manufacture, by stuffing vb cord in the gap and then injecting silicon sealant. The vb cord was there to reduce the amount of sealant required. When replacing the windows I epoxied wooden shims in the gap. Also the cabin top is not quite symmetrical. the starboard side having considerably more curvature than the port. As a result I felt I could not use  3M VHB tape as intended and had to use screws to hold the windows.

[Maeling]

Yes I had the same problem when originally fitting the cabin windows in Maeling.  I ran out of blue asbestos after first doing the port-side. I stow my oars outboard of the cockpit carlines and that extra curvature to stbd makes it a bit harder.  Interesting you are the only other person I have heard has noticed it.

Geoff

[Maeling]

Just going back and looking at your pic; Coincidentally I too used one of those fuseholders off the battery master switch to feed the rest of the boat (nominally I chose a 25 amp fuse reckoning that it should more than handle all normal loads but be enough to cope with other than a dead short circuit.

[Djarraluda Too]

Just seeing Geoff's latest comment and for some reason a story from late 70's HK comes to mind. At that time, Taiwan was a rapidly upend coming boatbuilding nation, of excellent furniture makers. Some boat skills were a titch dubious and there was a few quality issues. This one relates to a Nantucket 33, which was very roomy and a couple of folk were living aboard them, this one in Causeway Bay typhoon shelter (think Noon Day Gun for non HK folk.) Un-tinned wiring actually glassed in to the hull and deck lay-ups, with the tails left free at the edges. When they fitted the hull to deck they twisted the wires together and glassed it all in to get a nice waterproof joint. Nice idea but... One day a Nantucket burnt out at her mooring and the report was it started at these glassed in joints, high resistance due to corrosion in the not so well sealed cavity. 

You could draw several morals here, but simply - don't risk it with dodgy wiring, congrats for persevering with the uncomfortable task of sorting it out!

Roger

[Maeling]

Those   Taiwanese motor cruisers of the Eighties gave my brother a lot of work especially through rot in the core of the fibreglass.  We were lucky that Compass were on the leading edge of those very fast moving developments.  Core material was very new and on  my C29 the deck used a thin closed cell foam sandwich. It has stood the test of time, I wonder how the balsa wood core material used by many builders has stood up after various owners have fitted new deck fittings and not sealed them well.

Maintainability is a core unto itself - it is so hard to think 20 - 40 years ahead, that you will still own the same boat and what shortcut will come back and bite you!

Compass were GOOD, overbuilt but very few design/production features,  built in for us to find now.

Geoff Raebel