Duncanson 29 how do they compare with the C28/29

[banjo]

Hello everyone,

 I’m new to the forum and Compass yachts.

 I was wondering whether any of you have sailed a Duncanson 29 and would be in a position to comment on their relative merits compared to the Compass 28/29 for off shore/coastal work. Especially in relation to hull design with the Duncanson’s swept back fin keel and skeg hung rudder, versus the more traditional cruising keel of the Compass 28/29. I’m also interested in how well they perform with heavy following seas, hove to, lying ahull, etc.

[Kyeemah]

I have not been on a Duncanson but have read they are a modified and
extended C28 hull. changes to the design increased hull speed.

[Tardis29]

I'm aware of a couple of significant ocean-going cruises done in a Duncanson.� There was a couple who wrote regularly for Cruising Helmsman around 10 years ago. They were originally based in Kangaroo Island but cruised around the world in theirs. Also, Nigel Wridgway, another CH writer, wrote a book about his trans Indian Ocean crossing. "Lotus II". (now out of print). So based on these two examples for a start, I'm sure that offshore cruising in a Duncanson is possible. As for a Compass 29, while they are very sound & seaworthy vessels, I personally think that the Compass 29, with it's weather-helm and limited windward abilities, would be a bit of a liability at sea in stormy conditions. The Compass 28 is less prone to these problems so would probably be more suitable to offshore cruising.

Just my 5c worth anyway.

Regards,
Paul

On 11/05/12 12:21 PM, banjo wrote:

Hello everyone,

�I�m new to the forum and Compass yachts.

�I was wondering whether any of you have sailed a Duncanson 29 and would be in a position to comment on their relative merits compared to the Compass 28/29 for off shore/coastal work. Especially in relation to hull design with the Duncanson�s swept back fin keel and skeg hung rudder, versus the more traditional cruising keel of the Compass 28/29. I�m also interested in how well they perform with heavy following seas, hove to, lying ahull, etc.

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[michael]

I know of some friends who began their cruising in a C28. Went from
Sydney to Tasmania, N.Z., Pacific Islands and back to Sydney.They said
the C28 was up to the task but just too slow. They have since
completed 2 circumnavigations in 45 and 55 foot vessels and have in
the past 12 month bought a 65 footer for their next trip.
So the answer is the vessels (as long as ti is well found) can do it;
but can we!!! The C28 was named Interlude, and I notice there is a C28
of that name on the register - same boat???
Cheers
Michael

[ColH]

Sorry for getting a little off topic, but a question for Michael... Was the C28 Interlude owned by the same person as Interlude III and IV of Jervis Bay? If so I might need to have a chat next time I have a checkup!

Col

[michael]

Yep.
Keep smiling lol
Michael

[Les Fairwind]

Hi

I have owned my Duncanson 29 for about 15 years, lived aboard for the
last 7, cruised the Queensland coast single-handed from Brisbane to
Townsville, am now bound again for Cooktown, cyclones permitting. I
have also done a fair bit of ocean racing, including the Brisbane to
Gladstone Race 3 times. While always the smallest and slowest boat in
the fleet, we always finished, unlike some other more expensive and
much bigger toys. My max speed to date is 15.2 knots, admittedly
goosewinged downwind with #2 and reefed main in 35 knots gusting 48.
Every year I reset my max speed in my chartplotter, last year was my
worst ever with only 9.6 knots as my fastest for the year. A couple
of days ago (Hexham to Percy Islands) I got 10.5, best this year so
far. So I can advise that the Duncanson 29 is an excellent sea boat,
maybe not so fast but very stable. Only got the cockpit filled with
water twice in my time, both during the race in which I clocked the 15
knots downwind.

Last year I installed a furler, and used the #2 headsail, the #1 genoa
was too big for the foil. To reduce weatherhelm, I cut the main down
to the cunningham to balance the headsail, instead of having a reef in
all the time. This is on my old cruising sails, 10 years old I
suppose, and still able to clock 10 knots. I also installed an
electric anchor winch and all-chain rode, and 2 x 65 watt solar
panels, so she is a bit heavier and has more windage, and with all my
live-aboard stuff, she still clocks 10 knots in 25 knots of breeze.

The Dunco 29 is based on the Compass Easterly, not the C28, but they
are similar. John Duncanson added a foot of waterline in the middle,
some bustle aft to reduce the stern digging in under motor, and gave
it a three-quarter keel and skeg-hung rudder for less wetted surface
area and less drag. I also understand that the Dunco 29 was one of
the first boats intended for the charter market way back when, so she
had about 4 feet cut off her rig to make her more user-friendly for
novice charterers. She is still a masthead rig with sheeting points
outside the capstays, and so does not point as high as some fractional
riggers, but she flies in heavy weather and if you get her on track,
will scoot along nicely in drifters once you get her momentum headed
in the right direction.

People ask me why I don't get a bigger boat, if I want to live aboard
and cruise the Qld coast, I tell them I am more than happy with what I
have. Easy to sail singlehanded, cheap in marinas, cheap to replace
gear, plenty of storage, really solid build. Couldn't ask for more.

Much more good things to say about her, if you want to chat, but rule
of thumb - a fair bit faster than a C28, a lot faster than a C29, with
about the same accommodation etc.

Regards
Les Brown
Fairwind

[Maeling]

Les, not sure on your comparison the the Easterly. I have photos of the C28 and D29 side by side. Given that Dunc was building C28s when he went down and appears to have put out a few C28 and a half" C28 with no liners and a D29 anchor hatch, I believe the origin was a C28.
The D29 snout was drawn forward 6" and narrowed. The ass was drawn out and given a retrousse stern, 29' so far.  The big change was the vertical rudder shaft into the skeg. About this time people had figured out the angled rudder shaft/rudder really screwed the boat up into the wind. I keep hoping at the Regattas to have a Compass/Duncanson grudge race - I think, the man on the tiller will be the winner. Lotus D29 did really well esp with a solo Durban-Perth but I know of one C28 that had done 2 circumnavigations. C29s have more internal volume for stuff like food and water, so can keep going longer than C28's!  I feel a battle brewing!!
Actually I think the Northerner 28 got its genesis from the Holman & Pye Twister 28 from the UK at about the same time (early 60's)

My 2 BOB'S worth

Geoff Raebel

[feebz]

There will be no battle the C28's rule :)

[Les Fairwind]

You are probably right. I don't recall who told me about the
Easterly, I might have read it in an old article somewhere. I though
it might have been Don Lees, he has surveyed my boat a couple of times
and I thought he might have mentioned it. My sailmaker is Colin Quin,
son of the bloke who bought the molds when Duncanson had his clearance
sale, and he told me some of the history too.

The only thing I am really positive about is that Duncos are much
faster than Compasses . . . :~) I think its all about reduced
wetted surface area and quicker tacking ability. But I have read on
this website before about Compass owners being quite pleased about
getting up to 6 knots. If I was getting 6 knots on a good day, I
would be looking for the crab pot tangled around my prop . . .

[navychief]

Not sure I understand how a Duncanson29 can be that much faster? (not saying it isn't faster then a compass29)  The LWL would have to be similar to the compass29 (22.6ft) which only gives you a theroretical boat speed (displacment) of 6.39 kts.  So without the assistance of current/swell/tide, I can't see how a boat that size will have a cruising speed in excess of 7kts?

 

Maximum Hull Speed = 1.34 * LWL^1/2

 

 

Am I missing something?

 

Shane

[spikec28]

I think that the hull speed formula is really more a guide as to the
speed a vessel can do rather than a set-in-stone limit. I have read
also that the multiplier (1.34 is commonly used) can be as little as
1.25 for a bulbous or otherwise inefficient hull and as high as 1.5
for a sleek racer. I reckon the D29 might be a bit sleeker than a C28.

On top of that, vessels can exceed their displacement speed if enough
power is applied eg. speed boats, modern racing yachts etc. In strong
winds around Christmas, I was definitely exceeding 6.39kn! ....
probably doing closer to 7kn for many minutes at a time on a reach...
great fun, the fastest the boat has gone with me onboard. The D29,
with less wetted area would probably be quicker again.

Cheers,
Dave.

[Les Fairwind]

Hi,

Yes, your formula is a bit out, its not half the waterline, its the
square root of the waterline in feet x roughly 1.3 = theoretical hull
speen in knots in flat water. But like all formulae, yacht designers
have been mucking about for years, trying to get extra speed or
outsmart a rating system handicap.

Some boats are definetly slow, I accompanied a 38 foot steel ketch
north from Brisbane to Lady Musgrave Island. It had to motor sail to
keep up with me, while I had to reef down the main to allow him to
catch up. Today I sailed from Butterfly Bay on Hook Island,
Whitsunday Group, to Abbot Point north of Bowen. Crossing the ditch,
I had the tide on the beam so no advantage, forecast was 20-25 knots
going to 30 during the day. I did the leg from Hayman Island to
Gloucester Head in less than 3 hours, its 24.8 nm, and didn't get over
10.7 knots. So its not just catching the odd wave, Dunco's can
consistently exceed their "theoretical" hull speed, as I suspect most
boats do.

Then again, maybe its just the sunshine up here, making her
lighter . . . :~)

Regards
Les

[Les Fairwind]

Hi Dave, thanks for joining in.

The calculator doesn't actually change, its a set figure at 1.3 to
about a dozen decimal places. It has to do with wave theory, sound
waves, radio waves, etc. Where it applies to boats is that the faster
any wave goes, the further apart its peaks are. When a boat moves
through flat water, it puts out a bow, mid and stern wave. The mid
and stern waves eventually join together, but as you reach your
"optimum hull speed", where your bow rides on your bow wave and your
stern sits on your stern wave, you will be going at a certain speed.
If you go faster, the peaks of the waves become further apart and your
bow still sits on your bow wave but your stern slips forward from the
stern wave and begins to ride in the trough. To all intents, the boat
is then going "uphill", and like a car, the more power you apply you
can go faster, but as it is uphill, the more power, less extra speed.

It only applies to boats under motor, as the theory only applies in
flat water. Under sail, to move at all we need wind, which makes
surface waves of its own and usually with some swell, so the "theory"
starts to fall apart with all the competition.

Anyhow, its a nice little theory, a nice talking point

Regards
Les

[Soulfullspirit]

Hey Les that comment about being faster than a compass 28 lets give it a go when i catch up with you up there Nightingale is fast will be interesting if your up for it William

On Friday, May 11, 2012 12:21:11 PM UTC+10, Banjo wrote:

[Soulfullspirit]

The bottom line is you could put a rocket under your boat and if it is a displacement boat it will not go any faster than her displacement speed if it does you have a planing hull that has left its wave behind the extra speed we get is the surfing down waves

[Damien]

I have a N28 and to date my top speed have been 6.9kts where I fell Off the front of a wave. In 20kts reaching I would maybe sit on 5.5-6 when it starts going over 6 it's normally because I have to much sail up.

Damien
S/V Lightly Salted

[saltair]

Saltair C28 got 12.2Knots a few years ago on the GPS

I was "one up" and full sail from Pittwater to Sydney and the noreaster just kept freshening

Wasnt game to stop and reef so just hung on.

Got plenty of 10s and 11s.

Fastest I.ve been was 26 knots in 12 knots of breeze a couple of months ago.

Boat was called Banque Populaire

[Les Fairwind]

No worries, William, sounds like a plan.  When will you be here ?  I am at Yorkey's Knob, just north of Cairns, heading for Cooktown shortly.  Where abouts are you now ?  Last I heard you were dodging the wind in Gary's Anchorage.

 

Regards

Les

[Kyeemah]

I think this should be a 'televised' event. We need a third party with a video and some running commentary...in a fast speed boat... with several bikini clad women for added context.
Ian

[Soulfullspirit]

Hi Les are you cominmg back down south at the end of  the year? i have a mate up there in Cook Town will tell him to keep his eye out for you he is on a Mottle 33 Garrick cant think of the name of his boat i am in Bundy still weather not the best you seem to be doing ok William

On Friday, May 11, 2012 12:21:11 PM UTC+10, Banjo wrote: