Compass Farr 1104

[Kris]

Although built by Compass for a few years the Farr 1104 is not really discussed here. Yes, it may not be a true compass design, but Farr 1104's were built by compass till the end. Any reason not to chat about Farr Compasses here? Besides being good racers, could these yacht be considered good cruisers as well?

[Reverie C29]

Can't argue as we have a Farr 1104 Cruiser now. It was one of three (or four?) converted internally for cruising comfort. We can attest to that, as we just spent 5 months sailing to the Whitsundays and back over 2,500 NM.

[Kris]

So, how much of a change is it going from a C29 to the 1104? Does the deeper keel and exposed rudder worries you more? Just curious, since the Farr design is a huge departure from the other compasses.

[Maeling]

Kris, you're right the Farr 1104 was a bit too radical at the time for Compass' customer base. Boatbuilders/designers, look at radical ideas for inspiration and Bruce Farr and Don Lees both being New Zealanders, you can see the natural link.

They bought the rights to the 1104 but it was an immature design. Don asked Bruce, "Where's the drawing for the keel matrix to bond the keel into the structure of the boat?"

"Haven't got to that yet, you'll have to work it out for yourself!" replied Bruce  And so it was.

It's a big cruising boat and in it's day, Piccolo won the Sydney to Hobart on Handicap.  I think the lack of a skeg both to protect the rudder and keep the boat straight were major concerns.  Later when Don adapted the hull into the Innovator 33 he added the skeg, increasing the surface area and drag but adding to the confidence.  I have a friend locally with a Compass Farr 1104, it was a big step from a C29 but he loves his fast cruiser.  Draft is a big issue and he needs good tides and accurate navigation, I would imagine they would be be very twitchy running downwind in a big sea, perhaps better to broad reach.

Geoff Raebel 

[Djarraluda Too]

For me, cruising in the 1104 would be hard work, especially with the running backstays etc as well.  I looked but soon looked sideways and went for the Farr 1020, mine was one which had been converted to wheel steering and I must also admit to preferring the transom on mine to the large reverse counter on the 1104.

Roger

[Kris]

Interestingly, when one looks at the Farr website, the 1104 design is not listed and I wonder if it is due to the facts you've mentioned, a half-baked design. 

I've also read somewhere that the original mast design was rubbish (single sreader) and few broke in half before few ozzies upgraded to the 2 spreader design and that is actually what made it successful. Think a few 1104's ave been built by Compass ( I do not know the actual numbers) but has to be certainly more than the Innovator. So out of curiousity, how was the keel bonding issue resolved? I have not heard one 1104 loosing it's keel yet, but there were some rumors of lost rudders.

[brett.stapleton88]

Here is the detail of the design.

It's design 51

http://www.farrdesign.com/51.html

[Maeling]

Thanks Brett, I've bookmarked for next time I get an enquiry.

On the keel matrix, I can't comment. Nor the rudder without a skeg, Probably, saved on wetted surface area and turbulance. Getting a bit extreme for me, like moveable water ballast and swinging keels, Great while it works in good conditions.

Geoff Raebel 

[Kris]

Interesting, you cannot find it on the website when you browse/look for it "design by number" or "design by length" and it is not even on the concept pages.

You'd think, that for such an important design it would be listed. Anyhow, thanks.

There is also a bit of contradiction:

Design No. 51 also represents the final stage in the development of the safe, efficient, easily handled fractional rig without running backstays which is now a feature of most of Farr's modern fast cruising yachts, and which has been successfully copied by many other cruising and One Design Racing boats.

and from the tuning guide:

USE OF BACK STAY The backstay is used for both bending the mast to flatten the mainsail and also to tension the forestay and reduce forestay sag, thereby flattening the headsail. 

go figure

[Maeling]

Not so many around today who grew up with running backstays "Hands up those that have tacked, forgetting to release the new leeward backstay!  Or even tighten the windward one.

Geoff Raebel

[colinevans1]

Loved the discussion on the 1104 hulls!

Our I33 "DayDream" is based on one & the rig & mast,(with single backswept spreader) have been changed at some point in the boat's history with a running backstay but we confess to never having adjusted it either way.....

The boat sails upwind very well, downwind the helm needs to concentrate on what they are doing! We spend approximately 6 weeks a year cruising the tassie coastlines in all winds & weathers and have never felt anything but comfortable and safe. Great boat, great build. 

[brett.stapleton88]

I found it sorting by date. 

I've seen 1104's on Pittwater both with in-line spreaders/runners/jumper struts and also the way less busy sweptback spreader rig, so I think it really is luck of the draw. 

I note the design has 3 iterations so maybe that's it.

I love that the tuning guide covering sail selections for sailing to windward goes up to 70 knots!!!!

Everything has moved on now though I guess and most new boats coming out seem to be plumb stems, hard chines down the back with maximum beam nearly at the stern and two rudder blades to keep the whole show on the road.

http://www.farrdesign.com/pdfs/051tuning_guide.pdf

On Friday, January 3, 2020 at 6:05:13 PM UTC+11, Kris wrote:

[Kris]

Thanks Geoff. Since you are in touch with Don, on this forum there is a thread where it is discussed that Compass has built 18 Farr 1104's. By any chance, would it be possible to get a bit more info from Don on these boats? How theye were built, what is the core, etc. I suppose the Compass built yachts were well built, still any extra info or even a few drawings wold be great.

[Djarraluda Too]

Mea Culpa!

Replacement boom for a 37ft Nicholson was not cheap.  Luckily the mast survived.

Done it often on a Dragon as well, but they bounce quite easily

Roger

[Maeling]

Colin you are Boat 370 and in the draw for a $50 Chandlery Voucher at the Regatta Dinner on 14 February - Good Luck.  The voucher is for being on the Register and not able to attend the dinner (AND we have contact details) - pretty simple rules for everyone.

Geoff Raebel

[Maeling]

I doubt the irony is lost on our Patron - Don Lees, who had trouble selling modern designs to his old C28 and C29 base.  Now seeing how many modern owners have moved up to 1104 & derivatives.  Yes we can talk about boats on this site, just leave out the religion, politics and sex.

See you at the Regatta - Don Lees will be there and I'll have to start putting up a registration page - just having some difficulties getting the site working

Geoff Raebel