C28 Rudder Bearing

[lockie]

My rudder has developed some movement in the top bearing.
Is it possible to remove the top bush with the rudder in place, or is
this a slip job like the lower one?

lockie

[brett]

I did Ginsyl about 6 years ago.
It's a big job.
Rudder off, but before you do that you need to remove the prop shaft.
Because the prop shaft was stuck in the coupling and the coupling set
screws were sheared of we cut the shaft in half to get it out ($300
for a new shaft)
Removed rudder but you need a slip with a "rudder pit" as the rudder
needs to move straight down about 3 feet to clear the hull. Put rudder
to one side and let drain for a week (of course it's full of water!!)
Took the lower pintle off the back of the keel, replaced the two bolts
there with 316 bolts and nylocs,
Replace lower rudder bearing in hull with novasteen bearing material,
(original bearing was a bit of delrin tube forced into the rudder tube
which is a bit of 1 1/2 copper tube glassed into the hull) ground the
fibreglass cover off the cockpit floor, exposed top bearing which was
set in rudder tube with copius amounts of asbestos bog, very carefully
ground that out!! Then finally removed worn out bearing and replaced
with Novasteen and glassed it all back together.

As the shaft was out replaced cutless bearing and installed dripless
seal.

Put it all back together and never heard the rudder rattling again
plus the water stopped coming out of the rudder head and pouring over
the cockpit floor when motoring.

Hope this helps.

Brett

[Dave - C28 "Ginsyl"]

Brett,

I am sure your experience will benefit Lockie - it has certainly
helped me!

Cooee!
Dave
C28 "Ginsyl"

[graeme lock]

Yikes! I was hoping I could pop the upper bearing out and slip a new
one in, then do the lower one some other time.

lockie

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[brett]

Sorry Lockie, but that's what's involved, plus there was a surprising
amount of wear on the lower bearing just above the rudder blade. I
just don't think there's a quick and dirty way out of it. How bad is
the top bearing? Maybe you don't need to worry about it for a while.
I could move Ginsyl's tiller head forward nearly 1/4 inch (apologies
to Dave here, as she's his boat now and I probably shouldn't be
talking about her!!) Once it was all done though I was very confident
about the condition of the copper stern tube and rudder tube plus got
rid of the terrible grease packed stern gland and knew the rudder was
not going to be a problem again this lifetime.

On Jan 23, 8:48 am, graeme lock <graemel...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Yikes! I was hoping I could pop the upper bearing out and slip a new
> one in, then do the lower one some other time.
>
> lockie
>

[graeme lock]

It's no too bad - only a couple of mm movement. In the too-hard-basket for now.

[Djarraluda]

Had a couple of mm play for over 10 years now, so can guarantee there
is no worries.

Roger

On Jan 24, 8:55 am, graeme lock <graemel...@gmail.com> wrote:
> It's no too bad - only a couple of mm movement. In the too-hard-basket for now.
>

> >http://groups.google.com/group/compass-yacht-group?hl=en-GB?hl=en-GB- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

[Phillip of ninoxyacht]

On Monday, January 23, 2012 at 9:33:58 PM UTC+11, brett wrote:

.....Once it was all done though I was very confident

about the condition of the copper stern tube and rudder tube plus got
rid of the terrible grease packed stern gland and knew the rudder was
not going to be a problem again this lifetime.
>

Brett,

I know this posting is years later, but could you please elaborate on the part about removing the stern gland and its grease.

I am in the process this week of (the yard) doing the rudder bearings, the top and middle ones oval-shaped through wear, and the bottom one is OK but has stainless steel corrosion in the gudgeon.

I use an outboard motor, but until now have kept the old prop shaft to plug the hole in the stern gland. Today I can feel that the end of it is a plastic bush like the rudder bushes/bearings, and then inside of this is grease. Did you clean out the bearing and all the grease to do what: plug it with something else (for an outboard) or fit another type of bearings for the propeller shaft?

I don't think I will do anything more this week in plugging the prop shaft area, but would like to know for when I do get around to it next haul-out time.

Thanks

PS I have kept the bog shaped thing in the cockpit floor. The yard started at 7.30 and I got there at 8, and in that time they removed the top bearing (cockpit) and were working on the middle bearing with a drift of 1 inch rod and a collar of steel to be a percussion rammer. I only had to withdraw the prop shaft to not protrude as the drift had to line up inside the post/tube b/n the top of rudder & cockpit floor.

Phill

[Phillip of ninoxyacht]

Rudder bearings all done now.

Yard charged me 5 hours of labour, plus probably an extra half or one hour on the travel lift (lifting the stern higher to get the rudder on and off), plus about $60 of the materials, Novasteen bearing and misc bolts, welding the gudgeon, et cetera.

So not very expensive, nor difficult for qualified and experienced tradesmen at the yard.

The rudder doesn't wobble and hit the side of the cockpit with every wave. It is firm to steer.

Still interested in an answer from my prior post  

[Maeling]

Phill, not sure if you are still looking for what to do with the prop shaft.  In your case I would take off the propeller and if the gland is not causing problems just put a clamp (perhaps 1" anode outside and inside to prevent fore or aft movement and leave it in case the next owner wants to put an inboard back in.  Don't want a 1" hole leaking nor a rudder jammed by the shaft.  The gland won't be wearing so it should not come to any harm.

Geoff Raebel

[Phillip of ninoxyacht]

Thanks Geoff.

Autumn of last year I spent some afternoons holding my breath and swam under the boat and took off the propeller, nut and key. I needed to get a 3 pronged brake puller thing to get the prop off, and then I put on a shaft anode just in case. The water was warm then.

At the inboard end, I have the shaft and metal flange, no rubber part of the flange. I tied it off with VB cord to prevent the shaft dropping backwards (interfering with rudder) or forwards (protrusion of shaft into 'shed', also to plug the shaft 'hole'). I put a 1" hose clamp on the inside to also prevent the shaft moving backwards and out of the boat.

I measured a 0.3 knot increase in speed by taking off the propeller.

For the moment I am using an outboard out the back on a bracket. The shaft remains for the future or another owner. I was toying with the idea of building an OB well, but think it too much work, especially at the yard I was at it was too expensive to sit there a few days doing extra jobs. Other yards are cheaper per day, but have less skilled people or are more a DIY approach.

I was thinking on plugging the propeller shaft hole, but will delay that. Or not do it. I asked the forum for the anatomy of it, but got no response. I think it is much like the rudder shaft in that there is a bearing at the outer end, then a space where grease is pumped, and then fore of that is the shaft seal and grease nipple area. The whole shaft seal was replaced by the yard in Marks Point in the days after buying the boat 3 years ago, on the advice/insistence of the surveyor.   ......after that the diesel died....

So no problems. Prop shaft remains in the boat, and where the engine was is loads of storage space. The rudder shaft was done in April last month, and I'm happy that that is done and is a problem solved for yonks. Next I move on to other boat jobs...

[Maeling]

All good Phillip you're doing the right thing using the shaft as a plug.  The shaft log is probably a 14" copper pipe fibreglassed into the sternpost and I imagine a short bit of hose to an 80mm long bronze stuffing box with a grease nipple in the side.  Whenever you are in there, just check the pipe clamps are all in place and it is not leaking.
Geoff Raebel