Tru64 UNIX Technology Enthusiast
dpj...@gmail.com
Hi,
Is it still possible to get a copy of the Non-Commercial Tru64 UNIX
Technology Enthusiast edition ?
thanks,
Pascal.
Michael Kraemer
>
> Hi,
>
> Is it still possible to get a copy of the Non-Commercial Tru64 UNIX
> Technology Enthusiast edition ?
Not from HP AFAIK. They think you should be enthusiastic
about HP-UX on itanic, rather than DEC legacy stuff.
dpj...@gmail.com
On 1 sep, 22:32, Michael Kraemer <M.Krae...@gsi.de> wrote:
>
> Not from HP AFAIK. They think you should be enthusiastic
> about HP-UX on itanic, rather than DEC legacy stuff.
Well, HP-UX quite ok, I already have it on HP-PA, but itanium hum hum
hum ...
If they wanted to leave the HP-PA, then they should have continued the
Alpha.
Anyway, i am looking for Tru64 for fun, not for my work. I want to
restore an old alphastation.
At work, for Unix servers we are a Linux and Sparc/Solaris shop.
Pascal.
Michael Kraemer
> Well, HP-UX quite ok, I already have it on HP-PA, but itanium hum hum
> hum ...
OK, I should have applied a generous amount of smileys ...
> If they wanted to leave the HP-PA, then they should have continued the
> Alpha.
At first; NIH.
At second: the PA ecosystem most probably has/had a significantly higher
market share than alpha.
> Anyway, i am looking for Tru64 for fun, not for my work. I want to
> restore an old alphastation.
You would need both, Tru64 media plus the appropriate PAK to run the
box in a decent manner (i.e. not doing everything under root).
Uusimäki
Unfortunately, it seems that HP has ended even this:
http://forums1.itrc.hp.com/service/forums/questionanswer.do?threadId=1149384
Regards,
Kari
Michael Kraemer
> Unfortunately, it seems that HP has ended even this
> http://forums1.itrc.hp.com/service/forums/questionanswer.do?threadId=1149384
well, somehow one could have expected this.
There's not much reason for HP to provide a hobbyist program
for a declared dead OS.
In this case you can only hope some kind soul is willing
to share his stuff.
dpj...@gmail.com
Well,
First, thanks to all for your answers.
> Unfortunately, it seems that HP has ended even this
Yes it seems !
>> There's not much reason for HP to provide a hobbyist program
Well, look here :
http://wikis.sun.com/display/FOSSdocs/Home
There is always a good reason to provide an hobbyist program.
It's mainly a question of how people see you, and it could be a very
important subject.
Having hobbyist praising you is quite often more useful than any
advertising campaign.
it is a lesson that todays PR team have forgotten.
Anyway, I have installed OpenBSD on the machine.
Thanks,
Pascal
Michael Kraemer
> There is always a good reason to provide an hobbyist program.
From a hobbyist's point of view, sure, but
from a company's POV it means more work and potential
licensing issues (at least that's the usual lame excuse),
with uncertain return on investment.
Moreover, for HP Tru64 is an unwanted step child
of DEC heritage. Most probably they hope to turn its
users over to HP-UX and hence do not want to prolong
its life span by any means.
> Well, look here :
> http://wikis.sun.com/display/FOSSdocs/Home
That's Sun, not HP, and it's about hardware,
not software and licensing.
> It's mainly a question of how people see you, and it could be a very
> important subject.
That's Sun's obvious strategy, they cultivate their ecosystem
and their image to be the "good guys" for techies.
HP since Fiorina has given up on that one.
> Having hobbyist praising you is quite often more useful than any
> advertising campaign.
> it is a lesson that todays PR team have forgotten.
Well, maybe most PR teams think it is unimportant to appeal
to the low rank tech guys. It's more important to present
a company to upper management as being mainstream, in sync with
"the R&D power of Intel and Microsoft" \cite{Ms Fiorina}
Uusimäki
Well, I would share my hobbyist kit (5.1) and the licenses also. I'm not
sure how the licensing should be understood now. If HP has ended the
hobbyist program and is not enforcing hobbyists to adopt HP-UX instead
of Tru64, can it be a license violation to share hobbyist licenses with
a fellow hobbyist? At least I cannot see that it would cause any loss of
revenue or customers.
I would like to help any other hobbyists with their hobby, if possible,
but I wouldn't like to get trouble from HP.
Maybe I should contact the Tru64 product management...
Btw. I have been wondering why HP doesn't provide any hobbyist program
for HP-UX, like Sun does with Solaris and DEC/Compaq used to do with
Tru64 (and of course [HP] still does with OpenVMS). Seems that they want
hobbyists to stick to Linux.
Regards,
Kari
Michael Kraemer
<uusimaki@withouthis_exdecfinland.org> writes:
>
> Well, I would share my hobbyist kit (5.1) and the licenses also. I'm not
> sure how the licensing should be understood now. If HP has ended the
> hobbyist program and is not enforcing hobbyists to adopt HP-UX instead
> of Tru64, can it be a license violation to share hobbyist licenses with
> a fellow hobbyist? At least I cannot see that it would cause any loss of
> revenue or customers.
From the legal point of view this may be a mine field.
From the "ethical" point of view you are certainly right,
you don't steal anybody's business.
> I would like to help any other hobbyists with their hobby, if possible,
> but I wouldn't like to get trouble from HP.
The best way to avoid this is to refrain from public announcements
like this, just respond by private email.
> Maybe I should contact the Tru64 product management...
Of course not, don't give them ideas ...
(Provided a Tru64 management still exists)
> Btw. I have been wondering why HP doesn't provide any hobbyist program
> for HP-UX, like Sun does with Solaris and DEC/Compaq used to do with
> Tru64 (and of course [HP] still does with OpenVMS). Seems that they want
> hobbyists to stick to Linux.
Well, they simply don't care about hobbyists since their main targets
are big corporations. It's similar to IBM.
Once you get hold of the OS media (happens every now and then at eBay),
you can install it on workstations (legal license is bound to the machine).
In effect, it's like a hobbyist program, and you don't need dongles
like those infamous PAKs. Unfortunately native compilers are not available
this way.
Andy
Michael Kraemer
well, a true enthusiast will always want original software
for his original hardware. As much as open source efforts
like linux or bsd are appreciated, they often lack full
support for the hardware, e.g. gfx cards. And how about
older models, like e.g. those with Turbochannel ?
Uusimäki
Unfortunately, the Tru64 engineering dropped the Turbochannel support
from the newest versions of Tru64 ( > 5.0A) also. :-(
Steven Hirsch
> Btw. I have been wondering why HP doesn't provide any hobbyist program
> for HP-UX, like Sun does with Solaris and DEC/Compaq used to do with
> Tru64 (and of course [HP] still does with OpenVMS). Seems that they want
> hobbyists to stick to Linux.
?? I obtained a 100% free-of-charge copy of HP-UX 11i for PA-Risc. All I had
to do was fill out a web form. The distribution even included fully
functional copies of the C and C++ (aCC) compilers.
Not sure if that was a limited time offer, but it wouldn't hurt to poke around
their web site.
Michael Kraemer
> Not sure if that was a limited time offer, but it wouldn't hurt to poke
> around their web site.
AFAIK this was a limited time offer, and an accidental one, so I have heard.
By the time I tried it the respective page had a "Kiosk login"
which required user/password.
Michael Kraemer
> Unfortunately, the Tru64 engineering dropped the Turbochannel support
> from the newest versions of Tru64 ( > 5.0A) also. :-(
ISTR some early 5.1 release still runs on Turbochannel.
One doesn't always need the very latest OS release to revive old hardware.
It's more important that the underlying hardware
is fully supported and one can obtain enough freeware.
4.0G is also a reasonable choice, you still get freeware for it.
Steven Hirsch
No kidding! I thought it was a bit too good to be true <shrug>. At any rate,
I ended up with a complete, fully licensed production environment on my B2000
Visualize box. They even sent a bunch of Linux porting stuff on request.
My order was sparked by a tip on the Classic Computer mailing list. Given the
sheer amount of stuff I received (FedEx shipped, btw, at their expense) I'm
not surprised the offer was pulled. Their loss, my gain...
Steve
Uusimäki
Yes, you are quite right. V4.0G is probably the best choice for the
DEC3000 series.
I was just mentioning it so that nobody tries to install V5.1 in vain.
Unfortunately, the Tru64 hobbyist license didn't officially cover the
V4.0x, although I imagine that the licenses will work with V4.0x also. I
haven't tried. Maybe I should and then tell the result.
AFAIK the OS medias can be copied legally, if needed. Therefore it is
fairly easy to get them.
It is sad, that many nice pieces of software (freeware) is not ported to
Tru64 anymore. Especially nowadays, when Alphas are cheap and widely
available, many hobbyists would be happy to run them with the native OS
and all the nice freeware on it. Tru64 is still supported although the
development has ended.
Maybe you know that almost all Alphas and VAXen are still supported with
OpenVMS. So for those who haven't had the opportunity to get Tru64
licenses, can get OpenVMS licenses (for free,
http://www.openvmshobbyist.net/ ) instead and run the other native OS on
Alpha. It _is_ different, of course, but not too difficult to learn.
There is lots of freeware for VMS also.
Michael Kraemer
> Yes, you are quite right. V4.0G is probably the best choice for the
> DEC3000 series.
> I was just mentioning it so that nobody tries to install V5.1 in vain.
> Unfortunately, the Tru64 hobbyist license didn't officially cover the
> V4.0x, although I imagine that the licenses will work with V4.0x also. I
> haven't tried. Maybe I should and then tell the result.
The non-commercial license I know of works from V3.0 to V5.1-B at least.
> AFAIK the OS medias can be copied legally, if needed. Therefore it is
> fairly easy to get them.
>
> It is sad, that many nice pieces of software (freeware) is not ported to
> Tru64 anymore. Especially nowadays, when Alphas are cheap and widely
> available, many hobbyists would be happy to run them with the native OS
> and all the nice freeware on it. Tru64 is still supported although the
> development has ended.
well, a dead OS on a dead hardware doesn't attract developers in droves,
you know. But there are still several archives of freeware in existance.
What I can't find there, I try to compile myself.
> Maybe you know that almost all Alphas and VAXen are still supported with
> OpenVMS. So for those who haven't had the opportunity to get Tru64
> licenses, can get OpenVMS licenses (for free,
> http://www.openvmshobbyist.net/ ) instead and run the other native OS on
> Alpha. It _is_ different, of course, but not too difficult to learn.
> There is lots of freeware for VMS also.
I think you can be sure that lovers of old DEC hardware know about VMS.
However, the support of alpha workstation gfx is better under T64 than
under VMS, quite a few cards don't work out of the box or aren't
supported at all. The annual renewal of VMS hobbyist licenses is annoying,
as are the couple of PAKs you need to run a decent system.