mount USB flash drive on Unix

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jrefa...@hotmail.com

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Dec 31, 2004, 2:21:44 PM12/31/04
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How to mount USB on UNIX. For CD, we just type mount, and cd to the
device name. But I cannot do the same for USB flash drive.
please advise. thanks!!

General Protection Fault

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Dec 31, 2004, 2:35:08 PM12/31/04
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["Followup-To:" header set to comp.os.linux.advocacy.]

If your kernel has hotplug and automount it should Just Work. For instance,
on GNOME with Fedora Core 3 I plug it in and it appears on the desktop
instantaneously. The /var/log/messages shows that hotplug detected it,
assigned it to /dev/sda (using UFS) and then mounted /dev/sda1 onto
/media/usbdisk.


--
FreeBSD 4.8-RELEASE i386
1:30PM up 38 days, 18:52, 0 users, load averages: 0.00, 0.00, 0.00

Kenny McCormack

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Dec 31, 2004, 3:03:52 PM12/31/04
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In article <1104520904....@c13g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>,

Assuming that you *don't* have some fancy-dancy GUI thing running that makes
it Just Work, then the trick is to figure out what device (/dev/sd???) the
device is. If it is a simple, single unit device, then you can figure it
out by looking in one or more of the log files in /var/log (which one(s)
and where they are located is, of course, implementation/distribution
specific). Then, you should be able to just do: mount /dev/sd<whatever> /mnt.

If is a multi-unit device (such as a camera memory card reader), then you
have to make sure to boot with "max_scsi_luns=8" - after which, you can
follow the above instructions.

OB, off topic rant: I've noticed lately that postings have spaces between
the newsgroups in the "Newsgroups:" header line - my newsreader says this
is verboten - and makes me go back in an manually fix it. I'm guessing
that since the newest incarnation of Google recently went online, that that
is the culprit. Why, oh why, can't people use real newsreaders???

Conor

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Jan 1, 2005, 1:10:21 AM1/1/05
to
In article Kenny McCormack says...

> In article <1104520904....@c13g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>,
> <jrefa...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >How to mount USB on UNIX. For CD, we just type mount, and cd to the
> >device name. But I cannot do the same for USB flash drive.
> >please advise. thanks!!
>
> Assuming that you *don't* have some fancy-dancy GUI thing running that makes
> it Just Work, then the trick is to figure out what device (/dev/sd???) the
> device is. If it is a simple, single unit device, then you can figure it
> out by looking in one or more of the log files in /var/log (which one(s)
> and where they are located is, of course, implementation/distribution
> specific). Then, you should be able to just do: mount /dev/sd<whatever> /mnt.
>
Windows:

Plug in device, Windows sees it and it automagically appears straight
away.

Linux. Plug it in, hope it JUST WORKS. If it doesn't, take a wild stab
at what the device is or go wading through log files. And even then
you've not yet finished....


--
Conor

An imperfect plan executed violently is far superior to a perfect plan.
-- George Patton

genii

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Jan 1, 2005, 2:16:44 AM1/1/05
to
Kenny McCormack wrote:
> In article <1104520904....@c13g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>,
> <jrefa...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>>How to mount USB on UNIX. For CD, we just type mount, and cd to the
>>device name. But I cannot do the same for USB flash drive.
>>please advise. thanks!!
>

Google says:

http://www.ibiblio.org/pub/Linux/docs/HOWTO/other-formats/html_single/Flash-Memory-HOWTO.html

Br. genii

Mark Atherton

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Jan 1, 2005, 6:00:33 AM1/1/05
to
Conor wrote:
> In article Kenny McCormack says...
>
>>In article <1104520904....@c13g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>,
>> <jrefa...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>>How to mount USB on UNIX. For CD, we just type mount, and cd to the
>>>device name. But I cannot do the same for USB flash drive.
>>>please advise. thanks!!
>
> Windows:
>
> Plug in device, Windows sees it and it automagically appears straight
> away.

That's what you think. On one of the four XP machines I use regularly
this is exactly not what happens. It recognizes my CompactFlash reader
but fails to mount the card.

> Linux. Plug it in, hope it JUST WORKS. If it doesn't, take a wild stab
> at what the device is or go wading through log files. And even then
> you've not yet finished....

Conversely, since moving to Mandrake 10.1 with a 2.6 kernel, Linux "sees
it and it automagically appears straight away" on all my machines.

Mark Atherton

kier

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Jan 1, 2005, 6:33:03 AM1/1/05
to

What are you talking about? At most, it's a matter of creating a dir in
/mnt, then mounting it there. And in the latest distros, it should
automatically be mounted.

IME, such devices are usally sda1 or sda5. Hardly rocket science to work
out.

--
Kier

Joerg Schilling

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Jan 1, 2005, 8:01:01 AM1/1/05
to
In article <MPG.1c404f25d...@news.giganews.com>,
Conor <conor....@gmail.com> wrote:

>Windows:
>
>Plug in device, Windows sees it and it automagically appears straight
>away.
>
>Linux. Plug it in, hope it JUST WORKS. If it doesn't, take a wild stab
>at what the device is or go wading through log files. And even then
>you've not yet finished....

From what I have seen up to now, your claims for Linux are just wrong.
Try to do it without a GUI running... There are some insane additions
in Gnome or Kde (that make your claims partially true if you have luck),
but they unfortunately disturb the CD/DVD writing process.

On Solaris, even with the 3 year old Solaris 9 or with the even older
Solaris 8 + USB patched, you only stick the plug in and wait 3 seconds.
The apropriate feature (volume management) for automounting removable
media is in the basic Solaris system since 1992.

The memory stick appears mounted under /rmdisk/<label name>/

To unmount, call e.g. 'eject rmdisk'


....You need to boot once with the stick inserted or to call

/etc/init.d/volmgt stop
/etc/init.d/volmgt start

after you inserted the stick the first time.


--
EMail:jo...@schily.isdn.cs.tu-berlin.de (home) Jörg Schilling D-13353 Berlin
j...@cs.tu-berlin.de (uni) If you don't have iso-8859-1
schi...@fokus.fraunhofer.de (work) chars I am J"org Schilling
URL: http://www.fokus.fraunhofer.de/usr/schilling ftp://ftp.berlios.de/pub/schily

Stefaan A Eeckels

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Jan 1, 2005, 9:01:39 AM1/1/05
to
On Sat, 1 Jan 2005 06:10:21 -0000
Conor <conor....@gmail.com> wrote:

> Windows:
>
> Plug in device, Windows sees it and it automagically appears straight
> away.

That explains why I have USB keys that work on Linux
and Solaris but not on Windows, others that work on
Windows XP but not on Windows2000, Linux or Solaris,
and even one that refuses to work on all systems :-)

--
Stefaan
--
As complexity rises, precise statements lose meaning,
and meaningful statements lose precision. -- Lotfi Zadeh

Doug Mitton

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Jan 1, 2005, 9:32:49 AM1/1/05
to
Conor <conor....@gmail.com> wrote:

>Windows:
>
>Plug in device, Windows sees it and it automagically appears straight
>away.
>
>Linux. Plug it in, hope it JUST WORKS. If it doesn't, take a wild stab
>at what the device is or go wading through log files. And even then
>you've not yet finished....

I bought my kids (well, and one for me too) those low end RCA Lyra MP3
players. It worked on one of their Windows machines BUT not the
other. No error message, no log file, nothing! I just "assumed" it
didn't like the USB version in the Dell and did like the clone. It
worked PERFECTLY in Linux! :-)

As a work around I just "shared" the device on the one Windows machine
that worked and they access all their MP3 players from the single
location. Not what they were looking for BUT a nice solution anyway.

Windows isn't perfect either!
--
------------------------------------------------
http://www3.sympatico.ca/dmitton
SPAM Reduction: Remove "x." from my domain.
------------------------------------------------

Message has been deleted

Hamilcar Barca

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Jan 1, 2005, 1:11:42 PM1/1/05
to
In article <cr66ud$827$1...@news.cs.tu-berlin.de> (Sat, 01 Jan 2005 13:01:01
+0000), Joerg Schilling wrote:

> From what I have seen up to now, your claims for Linux are just wrong.

From what everyone has seen up to now, all your claims are just wrong.

> ....You need to boot once with the stick inserted or to call

Is this rebooting one of the innovations Sun licensed from Microsoft?

--
"A lot of code that you'll be seeing coming on in these copyright cases
is not going to be line-by-line code. It will be more along the lines
of nonliteral copying, which has more to do with infringement."
-- Darl McBride. CEO, The SCO Group.

Bruno Saverio Delbono

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Jan 1, 2005, 3:01:28 PM1/1/05
to
Hamilcar Barca wrote:

> Is this rebooting one of the innovations Sun licensed from Microsoft?

Stop trolling, idiot.

He didn't say rebooting. You can either restart vold or boot with stick
in, or run volcheck.


Conor

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Jan 1, 2005, 3:27:06 PM1/1/05
to
In article Joerg Schilling says...

> In article <MPG.1c404f25d...@news.giganews.com>,
> Conor <conor....@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >Windows:
> >
> >Plug in device, Windows sees it and it automagically appears straight
> >away.
> >
> >Linux. Plug it in, hope it JUST WORKS. If it doesn't, take a wild stab
> >at what the device is or go wading through log files. And even then
> >you've not yet finished....
>
> From what I have seen up to now, your claims for Linux are just wrong.
> Try to do it without a GUI running...

Why, so I can go backwards 12 years?

Lloyd Sumpter

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Jan 1, 2005, 7:24:20 PM1/1/05
to

MY experience with USB and Windows (Xp and 2000) vs Linux:
Windows: Plug it in and hope it works. If it doesn't...throw it away.
Linux: Plug it in and it works. If it doesn't, check logfiles, websites,
etc. and find the problem.
(Note that THERE'S NO SUCH THING AS LOGFILES IN WINDOWS! Good luck at
diagnosing anything. Try rebooting, sometimes that helps...)

Lloyd


Bruno Saverio Delbono

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Jan 1, 2005, 7:52:09 PM1/1/05
to
Lloyd Sumpter wrote:

> (Note that THERE'S NO SUCH THING AS LOGFILES IN WINDOWS! Good luck at
> diagnosing anything. Try rebooting, sometimes that helps...)

There is: Event Viewer. Hardware errors are usually logged. At least
don't spread FUD.

Joerg Schilling

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Jan 1, 2005, 8:41:36 PM1/1/05
to
In article <20050101131141.038$h...@news.newsreader.com>,

Hamilcar Barca <hami...@tld.always.invalid> wrote:
>In article <cr66ud$827$1...@news.cs.tu-berlin.de> (Sat, 01 Jan 2005 13:01:01
>+0000), Joerg Schilling wrote:
>
>> From what I have seen up to now, your claims for Linux are just wrong.
>
>From what everyone has seen up to now, all your claims are just wrong.
>
>> ....You need to boot once with the stick inserted or to call
>
>Is this rebooting one of the innovations Sun licensed from Microsoft?

Ah, a poor Linux moron is trying to reverse the sense of another posting
because he is in fear of the truth...

Do you have problems that you don't need to reboot Solaris?
It is because there are so many reasons where you have to reboot Linux
but Solaris could do the same taks without a reboot?

Joerg Schilling

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Jan 1, 2005, 8:44:44 PM1/1/05
to
In article <MPG.1c4117f25...@news.giganews.com>,
Conor <conor....@gmail.com> wrote:

>> >Linux. Plug it in, hope it JUST WORKS. If it doesn't, take a wild stab
>> >at what the device is or go wading through log files. And even then
>> >you've not yet finished....
>>
>> From what I have seen up to now, your claims for Linux are just wrong.
>> Try to do it without a GUI running...
>
>Why, so I can go backwards 12 years?

Linux does not have a volume management system like Solaris, so you are already
12 years in the past ;-)

Bob Hauck

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Jan 1, 2005, 8:27:16 PM1/1/05
to
["Followup-To:" header set to comp.os.linux.advocacy.]

Event Viewer tendss to contain much less detailed information than
/var/log/syslog, in my experience. It often has unhelpful nuggets like
"the XYZ service failed to start", with no indication as to why. Yes, I
know it failed to start, that's why I'm looking in the Event Log!

The messages in /var/log/syslog tend to be a bit more helpful, IME. For
one thing, there's more of them. Even routine events get logged, which
can be useful when you notice that they're missing.


--
-| Bob Hauck
-| To Whom You Are Speaking
-| http://www.haucks.org/

flatfish+++

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Jan 1, 2005, 9:16:53 PM1/1/05
to
On Sun, 02 Jan 2005 01:44:44 +0000, Joerg Schilling wrote:

> In article <MPG.1c4117f25...@news.giganews.com>,
> Conor <conor....@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>> >Linux. Plug it in, hope it JUST WORKS. If it doesn't, take a wild stab
>>> >at what the device is or go wading through log files. And even then
>>> >you've not yet finished....
>>>
>>> From what I have seen up to now, your claims for Linux are just wrong.
>>> Try to do it without a GUI running...
>>
>>Why, so I can go backwards 12 years?
>
> Linux does not have a volume management system like Solaris, so you are already
> 12 years in the past ;-)

Sadly you have stumbled into the cesspit of the internet,
comp.os.linux.advocacy

Roy Culley

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Jan 1, 2005, 9:20:48 PM1/1/05
to
begin <cr7jmc$mee$1...@news.cs.tu-berlin.de>,

j...@cs.tu-berlin.de (Joerg Schilling) writes:
> In article <MPG.1c4117f25...@news.giganews.com>,
> Conor <conor....@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>> >Linux. Plug it in, hope it JUST WORKS. If it doesn't, take a wild stab
>>> >at what the device is or go wading through log files. And even then
>>> >you've not yet finished....
>>>
>>> From what I have seen up to now, your claims for Linux are just wrong.
>>> Try to do it without a GUI running...
>>
>>Why, so I can go backwards 12 years?
>
> Linux does not have a volume management system like Solaris, so you
> are already 12 years in the past ;-)

You mean that daemon that automatically mounted CD's? Didn't work for
floppies if my I remember correctly. Also a lot of times eject didn't
work to get the CD out. Is that why Solaris added the force option to
umount? Much nicer than having to use a straightened paper clip to
eject a CD.

Linux does have 'volume management' if you are referring to mounting
CD's and floppies.

Message has been deleted

Hamilcar Barca

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Jan 1, 2005, 11:48:19 PM1/1/05
to
In article <cr7jmc$mee$1...@news.cs.tu-berlin.de> (Sun, 02 Jan 2005 01:44:44
+0000), Joerg Schilling wrote:

> [...] ;-)

Poor Joerg. Reduced through hatred to telling lies with smilies... and
major off-topic crossposting.

Jeff_Relf

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Jan 2, 2005, 4:37:26 AM1/2/05
to

Hi Huge, You quoted someone saying: <<
The road to Paradise is through Intercourse. >>

It's quite the opposite,
Intercourse is how I left paradise... believe me, I know.

Octopussy

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Jan 2, 2005, 4:52:27 AM1/2/05
to

Have you considered the Priesthood?

Here's a picture of Jeff having a drink at Pike Place Market:

http://home.earthlink.net/~jabailo/imgs/jr.pike.jpg


--
"You see, in this world there's two
kinds of people, my friend: Those
with loaded guns and those who dig.
You dig." C. Eastwood, G,B&U

Jeff_Relf

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Jan 2, 2005, 6:46:59 AM1/2/05
to

Hi Octopussy ( John ), Re: Your recent TV appearance, shown here:
http://home.earthlink.net/~jabailo/imgs/jr.pike.jpg

That's ok John, what between your bottomless quads,
countless bottles of Cisco and your continual overeating,
baldness should be the least of your worries.

On another note, I'm become really good at ripping CDs now.
I'm using Exact_Audio_Copy in Fast mode with automatic tag fetching.
Some of these CDs are so badly scratched that Secure mode takes an eternity.

The default settings really sucked,
it wasn't even set up to automatically fill in all the tag information.
I'm making 128 Kbps WMA files, one meg per minute.

The Ugly

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Jan 2, 2005, 7:01:38 AM1/2/05
to
Jeff_Relf wrote:


> The default settings really sucked,
> it wasn't even set up to automatically fill in all the tag information.
> I'm making 128 Kbps WMA files, one meg per minute.

Jeff,

We all know you were the one who paid the Olsen twins to get it on in
the subway:

http://home.earthlink.net/~jabailo/imgs/olsenmania.jpg

Admit it. ADMIT IT!!!

Roger Leigh

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Jan 2, 2005, 7:28:28 AM1/2/05
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-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

hu...@ukmisc.org.uk (Huge) writes:

> Nobody in their right minds puts a Unix file system on a floppy.

Why? A low-overhead filesystem like minixfs makes quite usable
floppies.


- --
Roger Leigh
Printing on GNU/Linux? http://gimp-print.sourceforge.net/
Debian GNU/Linux http://www.debian.org/
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Casper H.S. Dik

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Jan 2, 2005, 7:33:57 AM1/2/05
to
r...@nodomain.none (Roy Culley) writes:

>You mean that daemon that automatically mounted CD's? Didn't work for
>floppies if my I remember correctly. Also a lot of times eject didn't
>work to get the CD out. Is that why Solaris added the force option to
>umount? Much nicer than having to use a straightened paper clip to
>eject a CD.

It doesn't work for floppies (you have to type volcheck) because
floppy drives usually don't notify you when a disk is inserted.
(The once that can eject by themselves should be able to do so)

In Solaris 2.2 vold polled the floppy driver; but that caused
terrible wear and tear as most drives need to spin to detect media.

Casper
--
Expressed in this posting are my opinions. They are in no way related
to opinions held by my employer, Sun Microsystems.
Statements on Sun products included here are not gospel and may
be fiction rather than truth.

Message has been deleted

Rick

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Jan 2, 2005, 8:30:19 AM1/2/05
to
On Sun, 02 Jan 2005 09:52:27 +0000, Octopussy wrote:

> Jeff_Relf wrote:
>> Hi Huge, You quoted someone saying: <<
>> The road to Paradise is through Intercourse. >>
>>
>> It's quite the opposite,
>> Intercourse is how I left paradise... believe me, I know.
>>
>
> Have you considered the Priesthood?
>
> Here's a picture of Jeff having a drink at Pike Place Market:
>
> http://home.earthlink.net/~jabailo/imgs/jr.pike.jpg

That's an incredible insult to Rob Reiner.

--
Rick

Stefaan A Eeckels

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Jan 2, 2005, 9:20:15 AM1/2/05
to
On 2 Jan 2005 12:08:49 GMT
hu...@ukmisc.org.uk (Huge) wrote:

> You are, I assume, aware that they are both towns in Eastern PA?

Leading to the well-know Muppet disease Penntransitphobia,
or a dread fear of travelling through the state of Pennsylvania
(with thanks to Dr Bob).

Roy Culley

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Jan 2, 2005, 1:50:44 PM1/2/05
to
begin <cr7o0o$lp9$3...@anubis.demon.co.uk>,
hu...@ukmisc.org.uk (Huge) writes:

> r...@nodomain.none (Roy Culley) writes:
>>begin <cr7jmc$mee$1...@news.cs.tu-berlin.de>,
>> j...@cs.tu-berlin.de (Joerg Schilling) writes:
>>> In article <MPG.1c4117f25...@news.giganews.com>,
>>> Conor <conor....@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>>> >Linux. Plug it in, hope it JUST WORKS. If it doesn't, take a wild stab
>>>>> >at what the device is or go wading through log files. And even then
>>>>> >you've not yet finished....
>>>>>
>>>>> From what I have seen up to now, your claims for Linux are just wrong.
>>>>> Try to do it without a GUI running...
>>>>
>>>>Why, so I can go backwards 12 years?
>>>
>>> Linux does not have a volume management system like Solaris, so you
>>> are already 12 years in the past ;-)
>>
>>You mean that daemon that automatically mounted CD's? Didn't work for
>>floppies if my I remember correctly.
>
> Nobody in their right minds puts a Unix file system on a floppy.

It was for FAT or some other MS filesystem. You had to manually run
vol manager for it to mount it.

>> Also a lot of times eject didn't work to get the CD out.

> IME, this is completely untrue.

This was a good few years ago I must admit. All the admins I worked
with had a straightened paper clip handy for that very purpose.

GreyCloud

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Jan 2, 2005, 6:13:47 PM1/2/05
to
Joerg Schilling wrote:
>
> In article <MPG.1c4117f25...@news.giganews.com>,
> Conor <conor....@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >> >Linux. Plug it in, hope it JUST WORKS. If it doesn't, take a wild stab
> >> >at what the device is or go wading through log files. And even then
> >> >you've not yet finished....
> >>
> >> From what I have seen up to now, your claims for Linux are just wrong.
> >> Try to do it without a GUI running...
> >
> >Why, so I can go backwards 12 years?
>
> Linux does not have a volume management system like Solaris, so you are already
> 12 years in the past ;-)
>

Sometimes you have to shut down volume management to gain
access to micro-floppies.
I had to do it to copy the contents to my hard drive from
the book "CDE and Motif".

GreyCloud

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Jan 2, 2005, 6:16:16 PM1/2/05
to
Huge wrote:

>
> r...@nodomain.none (Roy Culley) writes:
> >begin <cr7jmc$mee$1...@news.cs.tu-berlin.de>,
> > j...@cs.tu-berlin.de (Joerg Schilling) writes:
> >> In article <MPG.1c4117f25...@news.giganews.com>,
> >> Conor <conor....@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>
> >>>> >Linux. Plug it in, hope it JUST WORKS. If it doesn't, take a wild stab
> >>>> >at what the device is or go wading through log files. And even then
> >>>> >you've not yet finished....
> >>>>
> >>>> From what I have seen up to now, your claims for Linux are just wrong.
> >>>> Try to do it without a GUI running...
> >>>
> >>>Why, so I can go backwards 12 years?
> >>
> >> Linux does not have a volume management system like Solaris, so you
> >> are already 12 years in the past ;-)
> >
> >You mean that daemon that automatically mounted CD's? Didn't work for
> >floppies if my I remember correctly.
>
> Nobody in their right minds puts a Unix file system on a floppy.
>

Oh? Buy the book "CDE and Motif" by Antonio N. Mione.
Inside is a diskette with a UNIX file system on it with all
the source code for the book.

Roy Culley

unread,
Jan 2, 2005, 11:51:56 PM1/2/05
to
begin <41D8802B...@mist.com>,

Yup, had to do that many times as well. I don't use Solaris volume
management at all these days as I only have Solaris servers where I
don't want it at all. As far as the desktop goes Linux is way more
advanced. I'm eagerly looking forward to Solaris 10 but can't see it
being a better desktop system than Linux.

Message has been deleted

GreyCloud

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Jan 3, 2005, 11:55:40 AM1/3/05
to
Huge wrote:
> Why would I want to? It would be better named "UIs that suck donkey dick."
>

Because it has been done and your assertions were totally
false, dicksmack.

GreyCloud

unread,
Jan 3, 2005, 11:58:16 AM1/3/05
to

Solaris 10 isn't all that it is cracked up to be. I'll be
shopping around for a new LCD monitor. I don't have a CD
burner so I'll probably go out and buy Fedora book with CDs.

Seeing that Sun and M$ are now somehow partnered, I'll go
elsewhere with my business.

JEDIDIAH

unread,
Jan 3, 2005, 11:56:22 AM1/3/05
to
["Followup-To:" header set to comp.os.linux.advocacy.]
On 2005-01-01, Conor <conor....@gmail.com> wrote:
> In article Kenny McCormack says...
>> In article <1104520904....@c13g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>,
>> <jrefa...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>> >How to mount USB on UNIX. For CD, we just type mount, and cd to the
>> >device name. But I cannot do the same for USB flash drive.
>> >please advise. thanks!!
>>
>> Assuming that you *don't* have some fancy-dancy GUI thing running that makes
>> it Just Work, then the trick is to figure out what device (/dev/sd???) the
>> device is. If it is a simple, single unit device, then you can figure it
>> out by looking in one or more of the log files in /var/log (which one(s)
>> and where they are located is, of course, implementation/distribution
>> specific). Then, you should be able to just do: mount /dev/sd<whatever> /mnt.
>>
> Windows:
>
> Plug in device, Windows sees it and it automagically appears straight
> away.

Not in my experience.

The last time I tried to attach a USB storage device to XP, I
ended up fleeing to the documentation to figure out what WinDOS wanted me
to do to make the damn thing visible.

>
> Linux. Plug it in, hope it JUST WORKS. If it doesn't, take a wild stab
> at what the device is or go wading through log files. And even then
> you've not yet finished....

This only works if you admit a bias in favor of Microsoft and
against Linux.

--

|||
/ | \


Message has been deleted

Mark Kent

unread,
Jan 3, 2005, 5:08:34 PM1/3/05
to
Michael Vilain <vil...@spamcop.net> espoused:
> In article <41D979A8...@mist.com>, GreyCloud <cum...@mist.com>
> wrote:
>
>>
>> Solaris 10 isn't all that it is cracked up to be. I'll be
>> shopping around for a new LCD monitor. I don't have a CD
>> burner so I'll probably go out and buy Fedora book with CDs.
>>
>> Seeing that Sun and M$ are now somehow partnered, I'll go
>> elsewhere with my business.
>
> Yawn. And Scott really cares, AS IF. Don't the door nob bang you butt
> on the way out...
>

I'd be shocked in any CEO were so cavalier about losing business.
Were I a shareholder, I'd have some serious questions for the next
AGM.

--
| Mark Kent -- mark at ellandroad dot demon dot co dot uk |
I THINK MAN INVENTED THE CAR by instinct.
-- Jack Handley, The New Mexican, 1988.

John D Groenveld

unread,
Jan 3, 2005, 8:08:57 PM1/3/05
to
In article <2pfcrc...@ellandroad.demon.co.uk>,

Mark Kent <mark...@demon.co.uk> wrote:
>I'd be shocked in any CEO were so cavalier about losing business.

Isn't Grey Cloud actually MikeCoxLinux's sock puppet?
If so, I don't think there's any business to be lost there.

John
groe...@acm.org

GreyCloud

unread,
Jan 3, 2005, 10:00:37 PM1/3/05
to
Michael Vilain wrote:
>
> In article <41D979A8...@mist.com>, GreyCloud <cum...@mist.com>
> wrote:
>
> Yawn. And Scott really cares, AS IF. Don't the door nob bang you butt
> on the way out...
>

Guffaw!! And Scott someday will wonder what that dagger is
doing in the middle of his back with the initials B.G. on
the handle.

GreyCloud

unread,
Jan 3, 2005, 10:01:49 PM1/3/05
to

No, I'm not that idiot. Remember SGI when they partnered
with M$??
Damn near ruined them. That's why I'm putting some distance
between me and Sun and M$.

Rich Teer

unread,
Jan 3, 2005, 10:14:32 PM1/3/05
to
On Mon, 3 Jan 2005, GreyCloud wrote:

> No, I'm not that idiot. Remember SGI when they partnered
> with M$??
> Damn near ruined them. That's why I'm putting some distance
> between me and Sun and M$.

The difference is that SGI decided to adopt NT on their workstations,
whereas Sun has decided that having stuff that works well with Windoze
probably isn't a bad idea for them or (a lot of) their customers.

--
Rich Teer, SCNA, SCSA, author of "Solaris Systems Programming"

. * * . * .* .
. * . .*
President, * . . /\ ( . . *
Rite Online Inc. . . / .\ . * .
.*. / * \ . .
. /* o \ .
Voice: +1 (250) 979-1638 * '''||''' .
URL: http://www.rite-online.net ******************

Casper H.S. Dik

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Jan 4, 2005, 4:48:33 AM1/4/05
to
GreyCloud <cum...@mist.com> writes:

The partnering between SGI and M$ was, I think, of a different
nature. There's a difference between "depend on M$ for the OS on your
workstations" and "make sure that Solaris and M$ software interoperate
better".

Joerg Schilling

unread,
Jan 4, 2005, 5:33:28 AM1/4/05
to
In article <41DA071D...@mist.com>, GreyCloud <cum...@mist.com> wrote:
>John D Groenveld wrote:

>No, I'm not that idiot. Remember SGI when they partnered
>with M$??
>Damn near ruined them. That's why I'm putting some distance
>between me and Sun and M$.

???

You did completely missunderstand the SGI problems....

SGI did have problems because they have been unable to manage their own
OS. So they decided to switch to NT which was the reason for their trouble.

Sun owns a sufficiently maintained OS and does not depend on M$.

In fact, Sun is the _only_ big company that does not depend on M$ in order
to survive!

You should rethink your relations to IBM, HP, ... and Sun.

--
EMail:jo...@schily.isdn.cs.tu-berlin.de (home) Jörg Schilling D-13353 Berlin
j...@cs.tu-berlin.de (uni) If you don't have iso-8859-1
schi...@fokus.fraunhofer.de (work) chars I am J"org Schilling
URL: http://www.fokus.fraunhofer.de/usr/schilling ftp://ftp.berlios.de/pub/schily

GreyCloud

unread,
Jan 4, 2005, 2:31:21 PM1/4/05
to
Rich Teer wrote:
>
> On Mon, 3 Jan 2005, GreyCloud wrote:
>
> > No, I'm not that idiot. Remember SGI when they partnered
> > with M$??
> > Damn near ruined them. That's why I'm putting some distance
> > between me and Sun and M$.
>
> The difference is that SGI decided to adopt NT on their workstations,
> whereas Sun has decided that having stuff that works well with Windoze
> probably isn't a bad idea for them or (a lot of) their customers.
>

It is more than that. Look at the past M$ partnerships with
other businesses. Most were either bought out or ruined.
Very few have survived with M$ as a partner. Usually, it is
M$ fishing for new ideas for innovation into their own
product line. I hope Sun survives this partnership.

General Protection Fault

unread,
Jan 4, 2005, 2:36:21 PM1/4/05
to
["Followup-To:" header set to comp.os.linux.advocacy.]
On Sat, 1 Jan 2005 06:10:21 -0000, Conor wrote:
> Windows:
>
> Plug in device, Windows sees it and it automagically appears straight
> away.

My PC, a very modern Dell, hangs for a few seconds when I insert the
device. Just like it does when starting a new track while creating an
audio CD.

> Linux. Plug it in, hope it JUST WORKS. If it doesn't, take a wild stab
> at what the device is or go wading through log files. And even then
> you've not yet finished....

Oh well, at least the best case is better.

--
FreeBSD 4.8-RELEASE i386
1:30PM up 42 days, 18:52, 1 user, load averages: 0.08, 0.05, 0.01

GreyCloud

unread,
Jan 4, 2005, 2:35:29 PM1/4/05
to
Joerg Schilling wrote:
>
> In article <41DA071D...@mist.com>, GreyCloud <cum...@mist.com> wrote:
> >John D Groenveld wrote:
>
> >No, I'm not that idiot. Remember SGI when they partnered
> >with M$??
> >Damn near ruined them. That's why I'm putting some distance
> >between me and Sun and M$.
>
> ???
>
> You did completely missunderstand the SGI problems....
>
> SGI did have problems because they have been unable to manage their own
> OS. So they decided to switch to NT which was the reason for their trouble.
>
> Sun owns a sufficiently maintained OS and does not depend on M$.
>
> In fact, Sun is the _only_ big company that does not depend on M$ in order
> to survive!
>
> You should rethink your relations to IBM, HP, ... and Sun.
>

IBM has sold their PC division to China, so they are now
out.
HP has ownership of OpenVMS, Tru64 UNIX, and HP-UX. Which
one of these will survive depends on HP and their marketing
prowess. I sure hope Sun will survive the partnership with
M$, as few partners have.
I really don't see any advantages to partnering with M$
anyways, other than their money. Solaris doesn't
mysteriously reboot, get viruses and malware like XP does.
So looking at M$ security track record isn't anything to
write home about. I've asked other Sun people why they have
partnered with M$, but got no real answer.

Rich Teer

unread,
Jan 4, 2005, 3:05:24 PM1/4/05
to
On Tue, 4 Jan 2005, GreyCloud wrote:

> It is more than that. Look at the past M$ partnerships with
> other businesses. Most were either bought out or ruined.
> Very few have survived with M$ as a partner. Usually, it is

I agree, but the key difference is I wouldn't describe Sun's
relationship with M$ as a "partnership".

Hamilcar Barca

unread,
Jan 4, 2005, 4:08:20 PM1/4/05
to
In article <41DAEF09...@mist.com> (Tue, 04 Jan 2005 12:31:21 -0700),
GreyCloud wrote:

> Rich Teer wrote:
>>
>> The difference is that SGI decided to adopt NT on their workstations,
>> whereas Sun has decided that having stuff that works well with Windoze
>> probably isn't a bad idea for them or (a lot of) their customers.
>
> It is more than that. Look at the past M$ partnerships with
> other businesses. Most were either bought out or ruined.

What do you call a partnership between Microsoft Corporation and Sun
Microsystems?

Microsoft.

--
"[W]hat [I] got drawn into [making unsubstantiated public claims about
IBM and Linux] was that IBM has a lot of agents that are out there day in
and day out that attack us."
-- Darl McBride. CEO, The SCO Group. 15 June 2004.

Richard B. Gilbert

unread,
Jan 4, 2005, 4:07:33 PM1/4/05
to
GreyCloud wrote:

>Joerg Schilling wrote:
>
>
>>In article <41DA071D...@mist.com>, GreyCloud <cum...@mist.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>John D Groenveld wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>No, I'm not that idiot. Remember SGI when they partnered
>>>with M$??
>>>Damn near ruined them. That's why I'm putting some distance
>>>between me and Sun and M$.
>>>
>>>
>>???
>>
>>You did completely missunderstand the SGI problems....
>>
>>SGI did have problems because they have been unable to manage their own
>>OS. So they decided to switch to NT which was the reason for their trouble.
>>
>>Sun owns a sufficiently maintained OS and does not depend on M$.
>>
>>In fact, Sun is the _only_ big company that does not depend on M$ in order
>>to survive!
>>
>>You should rethink your relations to IBM, HP, ... and Sun.
>>
>>
>>
>
>IBM has sold their PC division to China, so they are now
>out.
>HP has ownership of OpenVMS, Tru64 UNIX, and HP-UX. Which
>one of these will survive depends on HP and their marketing
>prowess.
>

Their what?????? DEC did not know the meaning of "marketing". Compaq
bought DEC and either did not know the meaning of "marketing" or
forgot. HP bought Compaq and . . . .

If HP didn't have their printer business with someone cluefull in
charge, they would have gone belly up already. They might still go
belly up. Carly hasn't a clue!

GreyCloud

unread,
Jan 4, 2005, 9:59:04 PM1/4/05
to
Rich Teer wrote:
>
> On Tue, 4 Jan 2005, GreyCloud wrote:
>
> > It is more than that. Look at the past M$ partnerships with
> > other businesses. Most were either bought out or ruined.
> > Very few have survived with M$ as a partner. Usually, it is
>
> I agree, but the key difference is I wouldn't describe Sun's
> relationship with M$ as a "partnership".
>

( Cool sig pic BTW )

I was asking about this before and no one really ventured
forth with a good explanation of what kind of an agreement
Sun and M$ got into. I did see Suns' website with McNeally
shaking hands with Gates. What kind of an agreement did
they enter into then?

GreyCloud

unread,
Jan 4, 2005, 10:03:09 PM1/4/05
to

I suspect that there is a big positive cash flow under the
desk from M$ to sink OpenVMS.
But then all M$ has to do is offer some money for it. They
did after all try to copy VMS into NT in the begginning.
DEC management at the time were still not aware of what the
PC industry could do to thier product line. By then it was
too late. Most of DEC was getting ready to retire from what
I remember, so to them it really didn't matter anymore.

Paul Gress

unread,
Jan 5, 2005, 12:13:52 AM1/5/05
to
GreyCloud wrote:

>
>
> It is more than that. Look at the past M$ partnerships with
> other businesses. Most were either bought out or ruined.
> Very few have survived with M$ as a partner. Usually, it is
> M$ fishing for new ideas for innovation into their own
> product line. I hope Sun survives this partnership.

Apple seemed to survive very well.

Paul Gress

unread,
Jan 5, 2005, 12:16:56 AM1/5/05
to
GreyCloud wrote:

> IBM has sold their PC division to China, so they are now
> out.
> HP has ownership of OpenVMS, Tru64 UNIX, and HP-UX. Which
> one of these will survive depends on HP and their marketing
> prowess. I sure hope Sun will survive the partnership with
> M$, as few partners have.
> I really don't see any advantages to partnering with M$
> anyways, other than their money. Solaris doesn't
> mysteriously reboot, get viruses and malware like XP does.
> So looking at M$ security track record isn't anything to
> write home about. I've asked other Sun people why they have
> partnered with M$, but got no real answer.

It was pointed out many times, Sun has only agreed to interoperate some
networking. Good for Microsoft and Sun customers, which are major
corporations.

General Protection Fault

unread,
Jan 5, 2005, 1:11:17 AM1/5/05
to
["Followup-To:" header set to comp.os.linux.advocacy.]

Yes, because of two reasons:
a) Office on the Mac is a cash cow, so Microsoft wants Macs around, and
b) Microsoft needs a "competitor" to look good for the DOJ.

--
FreeBSD 4.8-RELEASE i386
12:05AM up 43 days, 5:27, 1 user, load averages: 0.00, 0.02, 0.00

Casper H.S. Dik

unread,
Jan 5, 2005, 6:54:33 AM1/5/05
to
GreyCloud <cum...@mist.com> writes:

>I suspect that there is a big positive cash flow under the
>desk from M$ to sink OpenVMS.

In corporate America, you can't flow much cash under desks.
Accounting rules just don't permit that.

Since the only way to prevent OpenVMS from sinking is to either
boil or otherwise empty all the oceans, I don't think M$ needs
to contribute any cash.

(Or where you speaking in the past tense about M$ giving money
to Digital?)

Kadaitcha Man

unread,
Jan 5, 2005, 6:59:57 AM1/5/05
to
Casper H.S. Dik, <Caspe...@Sun.COM>, the dried-up, choleric gimmick, and
door keeper, gnawed:


> In corporate America, you can't flow much cash under desks.
> Accounting rules just don't permit that.

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!! You complete fucking nong. Just because you are
too fucking stupid to work out how to do it, does not mean everyone else is,
you stupid fuck.


--
The truth about comp.os.linux.advocacy:
"The _last_ thing I want is a bunch of Windummies begging for rescue
from their own stupid mistakes** all of the time. Let 'em stay with
what was created just for them: WinDoze." "Sinister Midget" in
comp.os.linux.advocacy (news:slrncth9jj....@home.harry.net)

John D Groenveld

unread,
Jan 5, 2005, 11:01:04 AM1/5/05
to
In article <Pine.SOL.4.58.0501041203070.27723@zaphod>,

Rich Teer <rich...@rite-group.com> wrote:
>I agree, but the key difference is I wouldn't describe Sun's
>relationship with M$ as a "partnership".

<URL:http://news.com.com/2100-1016_3-5510449.html>
Q Laura Rich
| Now that you've settled with Microsoft, how do you make sure that your
| collaboration with it won't lead to a blurring of the unique products
| and services of each company?
A Scott McNealy
| I always say that Sun and Microsoft shaking hands is a little like two
| boxers tapping gloves just before they beat the living daylights out
| of each other. And quite honestly, that really is where we are.

John
groe...@acm.org

GreyCloud

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Jan 5, 2005, 1:36:41 PM1/5/05
to

I wish he'd put this on the Sun site. It changes the whole
meaning of things now.

GreyCloud

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Jan 5, 2005, 1:39:17 PM1/5/05
to

Yes, they have indeed. I purchased a Mac for the wife and
it really works great.
I still like Solaris, but I feel there isn't enough research
done into acquiring more device drivers for the various
devices sold out there. I need to replace this old box with
a new one, and I'd much rather have an amd64 running
solaris.
Steve Jobs had to pull the dagger out of his back the first
time. Now he wears chain mail under that shirt. :-)

GreyCloud

unread,
Jan 5, 2005, 1:43:47 PM1/5/05
to
"Casper H.S. Dik" wrote:
>
> GreyCloud <cum...@mist.com> writes:
>
> >I suspect that there is a big positive cash flow under the
> >desk from M$ to sink OpenVMS.
>
> In corporate America, you can't flow much cash under desks.
> Accounting rules just don't permit that.
>

In normal upfront circumstances, you are correct. But then
that is what offshore banks are for.
Especially all of the banks in Panama. There are a lot of
tall bank buildings in Panama and I'm sure it isn't for
shoeshine boys to save their quarters there. Last time I
was there, it was one of the largest money laundering
services available.

> Since the only way to prevent OpenVMS from sinking is to either
> boil or otherwise empty all the oceans, I don't think M$ needs
> to contribute any cash.

Not contribute, but to buy it from HP. If HP can't market
VMS correctly, then they should sell it.

>
> (Or where you speaking in the past tense about M$ giving money
> to Digital?)

Back in the past, M$ did settle with DEC when M$ tried to
incorporate a lot of VMS code into NT.
Notice, tho, that the DCL was not part of NT.

GreyCloud

unread,
Jan 5, 2005, 1:45:35 PM1/5/05
to

I hope so. I've yet to see any good come of any M$
agreements.

Rich Teer

unread,
Jan 5, 2005, 1:47:49 PM1/5/05
to
On Wed, 5 Jan 2005, GreyCloud wrote:

> I still like Solaris, but I feel there isn't enough research
> done into acquiring more device drivers for the various
> devices sold out there. I need to replace this old box with
> a new one, and I'd much rather have an amd64 running
> solaris.

Sun and their pertners have made great leaps in this area.
Obviously it'll take time to support "everything", but S10
adds support for MANY more devices than previous releases.

> Steve Jobs had to pull the dagger out of his back the first
> time. Now he wears chain mail under that shirt. :-)

Indeed!

GreyCloud

unread,
Jan 5, 2005, 10:42:52 PM1/5/05
to
Rich Teer wrote:
>
> On Wed, 5 Jan 2005, GreyCloud wrote:
>
> > I still like Solaris, but I feel there isn't enough research
> > done into acquiring more device drivers for the various
> > devices sold out there. I need to replace this old box with
> > a new one, and I'd much rather have an amd64 running
> > solaris.
>
> Sun and their pertners have made great leaps in this area.
> Obviously it'll take time to support "everything", but S10
> adds support for MANY more devices than previous releases.
>

I'm curious as to how much of a difference there is between
Solaris 8 and 10.
Is there any advantage of moving to 10?
Also, is there a solaris version that takes full advantage
of the amd64?

Rich Teer

unread,
Jan 6, 2005, 12:07:20 AM1/6/05
to
On Wed, 5 Jan 2005, GreyCloud wrote:

> I'm curious as to how much of a difference there is between
> Solaris 8 and 10.

There's a H U G E difference between S8 and S10!

> Is there any advantage of moving to 10?

Assuming your HW and apps are supported, there's many reasons
to move to S10, and I can't think of many reasons not to.

> Also, is there a solaris version that takes full advantage
> of the amd64?

Yes; the latest build of Solaris Express, as well as S10 FCS
(when it ships) can run a 64-bit kernel on amd64. That 64-bit
kernel can run both 32-bit and 64-bit apps, just like on SPARC.

Earlier versions of Solaris should work on amd64, but only in
32-bit mode.

John D Groenveld

unread,
Jan 6, 2005, 12:34:30 AM1/6/05