RICH TEER (he or anyone) done or working on a ZFS-INTERNALS book?

[David Combs]

His current Solaris book does not cover zfs, I believe.

Is he or anyone else working on one -- a zfs internals?

Thanks

David

[Paul Floyd]

On 3 Oct 2012 00:22:57 -0400, David Combs <dkc...@panix.com> wrote:
> His current Solaris book does not cover zfs, I believe.
>
> Is he or anyone else working on one -- a zfs internals?

I don't think that he works much in development any more. For ZFS
internals, there is Solaris Internals and the admin-oriented Solaris 10
ZFS Essentials. I rather doubt that there is much of a market for sch a
book now.

A bientot
Paul
--
Paul Floyd http://paulf.free.fr

[Rich Teer]

On Tue, 3 Oct 2012, David Combs wrote:

Hi David,

> His current Solaris book does not cover zfs, I believe.

Wow, it's been a while since I last saw my name in a newsgroup posting.
Very flattering! :-) You are correct that my book, Solaris Systems
Programming, doesn't cover ZFS, and there are no plans for an updated
edition. I've just checked my second edition of Solaris Internals (by
Richard McDougall and Jim Mauro): that doesn't contain a chapter on
ZFS either. The book's web site, www.solarisinternals.com, seems to
be suffering a technical outage currently, but it would be a good place
to check.

> Is he or anyone else working on one -- a zfs internals?

I'm not, and I'm not aware of anyone who is, unfortunately... :-(

--
Rich Teer, Publisher
Vinylphile Magazine

www.vinylphilemag.com

[Rich Teer]

On Wed, 3 Oct 2012, Paul Floyd wrote:

> On 3 Oct 2012 00:22:57 -0400, David Combs <dkc...@panix.com> wrote:
> > His current Solaris book does not cover zfs, I believe.
> >
> > Is he or anyone else working on one -- a zfs internals?
>
> I don't think that he works much in development any more. For ZFS

Alas, that is true. The interest is there, but my heart isn't in it
any more. :-(

I do have some programming idea whirling around in my head that I want
to try out, but I have no idea when I'll find the time! The magazine
(Vinylphile) and teaching UNIX systems administration take up most of
my time these days, but as you can see I like to at least keep in touch
with the [Open]Solaris community. Shame on Oracle for killing it.

[David Combs]

In article <alpine.OSX.2.02....@neon.rite-group.com>,
Rich Teer <rich...@rite-group.com> wrote:
...

>(Vinylphile) and teaching UNIX systems administration take up most of
>my time these days,
>

>--
>Rich Teer, Publisher
>Vinylphile Magazine
>
>www.vinylphilemag.com

What part of the USA do you hold your admin-classes?

Any in NYC?

What would you charge for an auditor?

David

[David Combs]

In article <alpine.OSX.2.02....@neon.rite-group.com>,
Rich Teer <rich...@rite-group.com> wrote:

>I'm not, and I'm not aware of anyone who is, unfortunately... :-(
>
>--
>Rich Teer, Publisher
>Vinylphile Magazine
>
>www.vinylphilemag.com

Unfortunately, indeed.

Especially your statement in your other post that there wasn't
much interest in it any more.

"Any more", I guess, since Mr. Sailboat Racer took over.

Which is really a surprise, actually. If he's selling
hardware with solaris, along with his Oracle, why wouldn't
there be, well, a LOT of interest in zfs?

Especially when companies use Oracle for applications which,'
if they failed, would maybe sink them.

----

And, aren't there others besides Oracle that are implementing
zfs? Wouldn't users of *those* systems value more doc on it?

David

[David Combs]

In article <alpine.OSX.2.02....@neon.rite-group.com>,
Rich Teer <rich...@rite-group.com> wrote:

Actually, you wouldn't have to wait for an entire new edition,
would you?

You could start work on a *chapter* on zfs, and keep your
work posted somewhere.

Then other people, also expert at zfs, could comment, suggest
new examples, or even actually enter (no royalties expected)
additional explanative text. It might end up being sort of
a joint effort.

Then, at some future date, you could use it in a new
edition of either of your books.

That way we out here would get the benefit of the doc
and tutorial explanations, as they grew, but it would
cost you not much time or effort -- whenever you felt
like it, you could then add some more, and answer what
questions your on-line readers had posed.

ANYTHING would be better than NOTHING ever written on it!


David

edition

[Ian Collins]

On 10/05/12 13:01, David Combs wrote:
>
> And, aren't there others besides Oracle that are implementing
> zfs? Wouldn't users of *those* systems value more doc on it?

If you take oracle's on line documentation, the zfs best practices guide
and the archives of the zfs-discuss mail list, there isn't much more to
be said.

--
Ian Collins

[cindy swearingen]

On Oct 4, 5:54 pm, dkco...@panix.com (David Combs) wrote:
> In article <alpine.OSX.2.02.1210030906310....@neon.rite-group.com>,

> Rich Teer  <rich.t...@rite-group.com> wrote:
> ...
>
> >(Vinylphile) and teaching UNIX systems administration take up most of
> >my time these days,
>
> >--
> >Rich Teer, Publisher
> >Vinylphile Magazine
>
> >www.vinylphilemag.com
>
> What part of the USA do you hold your admin-classes?
>
> Any in NYC?
>
> What would you charge for an auditor?
>
> David

David,

What specific questions do you have about ZFS internals?

The Oracle Solaris internals course covers some ZFS information.

You should check in with an Oracle sales office in NYC. Free admin
training is part of OTN's sysadmin days. We had one here in
Broomfield
in August and they rotate around the country.

Richard Elling generally does ZFS training as part of the LISA
conference.
Its in San Diego this year. He's not doing his day-long tutorial but
he
probably do a WIP or something similar.

Thanks,

Cindy

[Rich Teer]

On Thu, 4 Oct 2012, David Combs wrote:

> What part of the USA do you hold your admin-classes?

I'm not in the US--I'm in BC, Canada. :-)

> Any in NYC?
>
> What would you charge for an auditor?

I'm a part-time contract instructor at a local private college,
but if there's enough serious interest I could be persuaded to
do some short-term classes elsewhere, depending on the sibject
matter. :-)

[Rich Teer]

On Fri, 5 Oct 2012, David Combs wrote:

> Actually, you wouldn't have to wait for an entire new edition,
> would you?

True. The more I think about it, I think if I ever write another
book, I'll self-publish. True, it won't have the cachet of being
from a big-name publisher, but the royalty structure would be much
more in my favour! (I find book writing a VERY time consuming
process, and if I want to eat and pay my mortgage, it has to be a
financially viable proposition. I *could* do it for fun, but I
already have way too many projects on my "fun" pile!)

[...]

> ANYTHING would be better than NOTHING ever written on it!

Nice ideas, but like Tim said, there's a lot of ZFS stuff out there
already, much of it written by people much closer and more familiar
with it than I.

[Andrew Gabriel]

In article <3e5fcc98-a8d5-4eb3...@u19g2000yqo.googlegroups.com>,

cindy swearingen <cindy.sw...@gmail.com> writes:
> David,
> What specific questions do you have about ZFS internals?
> The Oracle Solaris internals course covers some ZFS information.
> You should check in with an Oracle sales office in NYC. Free admin
> training is part of OTN's sysadmin days. We had one here in
> Broomfield
> in August and they rotate around the country.

I'll be running a sysadmin day in the UK, probably end of this
year or beginning of next.

The next UK Solaris Tech day will be on Tue 27th November.
It's not yet advertised on the Oracle web site, but probably
will be in a couple of weeks time - I'll post again when
registration is opened.

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

[Cydrome Leader]

David Combs <dkc...@panix.com> wrote:
> In article <alpine.OSX.2.02....@neon.rite-group.com>,
> Rich Teer <rich...@rite-group.com> wrote:
>
>>I'm not, and I'm not aware of anyone who is, unfortunately... :-(
>>
>>--
>>Rich Teer, Publisher
>>Vinylphile Magazine
>>
>>www.vinylphilemag.com
>
> Unfortunately, indeed.
>
> Especially your statement in your other post that there wasn't
> much interest in it any more.
>
> "Any more", I guess, since Mr. Sailboat Racer took over.
>
> Which is really a surprise, actually. If he's selling
> hardware with solaris, along with his Oracle, why wouldn't

nobody is buying that stuff anymore. Sun is pulling an SGI.

[Gary R. Schmidt]

Nah, they're not even that smart - at SGI they at least kept the staff
going on the promise that, eventually, everything would be all ponies
and rainbows.

Two weeks after I left, Rackable bought them.

No real connection, but it amuses me.

Cheers,
Gary B-)

--
When men talk to their friends, they insult each other.
They don't really mean it.
When women talk to their friends, they compliment each other.
They don't mean it either.

[Winston]

dkc...@panix.com (David Combs) posted:

>>> Is he or anyone else working on one -- a zfs internals?

> Then other people, also expert at zfs, could comment, suggest
> new examples, or even actually enter (no royalties expected)
> additional explanative text. It might end up being sort of
> a joint effort.

Have you looked at Wikipedia's ZFS page (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ZFS)?
There are lots of references and links at the bottom of the page to
other ZFS documents, such as the on-disk format spec. and the best
practices guide.
-WBE

[David Combs]

In article <3e5fcc98-a8d5-4eb3...@u19g2000yqo.googlegroups.com>,

cindy swearingen <cindy.sw...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>David,
>
>What specific questions do you have about ZFS internals?

Nothing specific. Lots of stuff in the doc I do not understand;
I figure that if I know what's going on underneath, then it
will make more sense to me.

>
>The Oracle Solaris internals course covers some ZFS information.
>
>You should check in with an Oracle sales office in NYC. Free admin

FREE? Nice! What is "OTN"?

>training is part of OTN's sysadmin days. We had one here in
>Broomfield
>in August and they rotate around the country.

Well, I live 15 miles north of NYC, which is one HUGE metro
area. How about here -- LOTS of people could attend without
having to fly anywhere or stay in any hotel. So no out-of-pocket
money having to be begged from extremely tight corporate bosses.

>
>Richard Elling generally does ZFS training as part of the LISA
>conference.
>Its in San Diego this year. He's not doing his day-long tutorial but
>he
>probably do a WIP or something similar.
>

"WIP"? Does that mean via the internet? If not, then that
is something that could be done, in one of two ways:

1: live, with participants able to speak out questions that
got answered in real time.

2: recorded, to be played anytime by anybody.

3: or 1 *and* 2 -- those who watch live get to ask
questions, those didn't can watch the recording
(of other people's questions and their answers), etc.


Seems to me that the one thing Solaris has that no other
OS has (I think) is ZFS. And unlike general OS documentation
and textbooks, the ONLY doc on ZFS is from sun/oracle.

Since zfs can be marketed as something of huge advantage,
it should pay you to put LOTS of effort into documenting
it (zfs) from several levels. The outer surface, and
the interior structure.

For sure, I'd have the people who wrote zfs write the
documentation, so they could say WHY they created this
facility xyz but not abc, and WHY they implemented some
feature this way but not that way (because they tried
it and it didn't work so well), things like that.

And WHY they named the various facilities this and
not that.

Yeah, someone could edit it, but the engineers themselves
should write the first draft of everything.


Thanks!

David


>Cindy

[Winston]

dkc...@panix.com (David Combs) writes:
> Seems to me that the one thing Solaris has that no other
> OS has (I think) is ZFS.

FreeBSD has ZFS version 28 (i.e., up through the last open source
version, but not versions created after Oracle went back to closed
source). Others may include Debian GNU/kFreeBSD, OpenIndiana, Illumos,
and Nexenta(stor).
-WBE

[David Combs]

In article <k4ncov$obj$1...@dont-email.me>,

QUESTIONS:

. What is an OTN?

. WHEN are the "sysadmin days"?

I mean, certain months per year? Same period of time at each location?

. Will you be teaching a class in New York City anytime? Ideas when?

. When you do post such an announcement, perhaps the subj-line could
be ALL CAPS, so it *really* stands out.


And for those of us for whom the site over which we primarily read
newsgroups (for me, via a "shell account" on the ISP www.panix.com,
which I check-out only once every few days) isn't the primary site
we use 24/7, which might well be MS windows machine via some
windows-supporting ISP, email via Outlook.


[Thank god for cygwin and (nt)emacs (dired, eshell, ...) which
makes such machines actually POSSIBLE (for us) to use!]

For those of us who fit that pattern, any chance you could set up a
listserv, for which we could sign up here? Thus we'd get instant
notice of your announcements -- or anyone else's time-critical
announcements?

Thanks so very much!

David

[Doug McIntyre]

dkc...@panix.com (David Combs) writes:
>QUESTIONS:

>. What is an OTN?

OTN == Oracle Tech Network.

Where you can login to get any number of info about Oracle products.
Download evals, read documentation, technotes, etc. join the forums, etc.
Reached oddly enough by going to http://otn.oracle.com/

[Andrew Gabriel]

In article <k776rg$e11$1...@reader1.panix.com>,

dkc...@panix.com (David Combs) writes:
> In article <k4ncov$obj$1...@dont-email.me>,
> Andrew Gabriel <and...@cucumber.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>>I'll be running a sysadmin day in the UK, probably end of this
>>year or beginning of next.
>>
>>The next UK Solaris Tech day will be on Tue 27th November.
>>It's not yet advertised on the Oracle web site, but probably
>>will be in a couple of weeks time - I'll post again when
>>registration is opened.
>>
>>--
>>Andrew Gabriel
>>[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]
>
>
> QUESTIONS:
>
> . What is an OTN?

Oracle Technology Network.
Oracle's equivalent of the Sun Developer Network.

> . WHEN are the "sysadmin days"?
>
> I mean, certain months per year? Same period of time at each location?

Not regular, ad-hoc. UK one will not be this year as I've run
out of time to do it. Hopefully early next year.

> . Will you be teaching a class in New York City anytime? Ideas when?

I won't, but there might be one. There have been several in the
US already - Santa Clara and Broomfield, and at Oracle Open World
in San Francisco.

> . When you do post such an announcement, perhaps the subj-line could
> be ALL CAPS, so it *really* stands out.
>
>
> And for those of us for whom the site over which we primarily read
> newsgroups (for me, via a "shell account" on the ISP www.panix.com,
> which I check-out only once every few days) isn't the primary site
> we use 24/7, which might well be MS windows machine via some
> windows-supporting ISP, email via Outlook.
>
>
> [Thank god for cygwin and (nt)emacs (dired, eshell, ...) which
> makes such machines actually POSSIBLE (for us) to use!]
>
> For those of us who fit that pattern, any chance you could set up a
> listserv, for which we could sign up here? Thus we'd get instant
> notice of your announcements -- or anyone else's time-critical
> announcements?

Marketing keep a list which they mail out about the Tech Days and
sysadmin days. I'll see about getting you added.

You can now register for the tech day on 27th at:
http://www.oracle.com/goto/uk/solaristechday
I'll post this in another thread so it stands out.

[David Combs]

In article <alpine.OSX.2.02....@neon.rite-group.com>,
Rich Teer <rich...@rite-group.com> wrote:

Of course, with self-publishing, WE could help you edit it.

David

[David Combs]

In article <ydwqz3y...@UBEblock.psr.com>,

No, not in a long time. Will check it out for changes.

Thanks!

David

[ChrisQ]

Another source might be the FreeBSD docs, which has zfs in kernel now.
For the
really keen, the sources are available as well. At least part of the zfs
spec
was released by Sun as open source, but last time I looked, there were
still some
licensing issues to be resolved before it could be incorporated into
Linux at
kernel level.

Not all versions of Suns / Oracles ZFS are compatable though, are they ?...

Regards,

Chris

[Rich Teer]

On Sat, 24 Nov 2012, David Combs wrote:

> Of course, with self-publishing, WE could help you edit it.

True, but there's the pesky issue of rights for any subsequent edition of
SSP--which may (or may not, I'll have to check) rest with Prentice Hall... :-(

I think if I ever do write another book, self-publishing would likely
be the path I persue.

[adirtymindisajoyforever]

isn't this a good start:

http://www.google.be/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CCwQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fmaczfs.googlecode.com%2Ffiles%2FZFSOnDiskFormat.pdf&ei=xM3EUPuKNqK90QXv_IGICA&usg=AFQjCNGnXRIVQ5f3bLXNyGbNamRJOI-cBw&cad=rja


Op woensdag 3 oktober 2012 06:22:57 UTC+2 schreef David Combs het volgende:

[David Combs]

In article <60f4dca3-b034-4dc0...@googlegroups.com>,

Thanks for that!

Looks interesting.

QUESTION: I can't read that long google string so well:
it does look like you already knew what you were looking
for.

So I ask, how did you find out that it even existed?

Maybe other such things exist.


David

[cindy swearingen]

On Jan 4, 4:30 pm, dkco...@panix.com (David Combs) wrote:
> In article <60f4dca3-b034-4dc0...@googlegroups.com>,
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> adirtymindisajoyforever  <getridofthes...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> >isn't this a good start:
>

> >http://www.google.be/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CC...

>
> >Op woensdag 3 oktober 2012 06:22:57 UTC+2 schreef David Combs het volgende:
> >> His current Solaris book does not cover zfs, I believe.
>
> >> Is he or anyone else working on one -- a zfs internals?
>
> >> Thanks
>
> >> David
>
> Thanks for that!
>
> Looks interesting.
>
> QUESTION: I can't read that long google string so well:
> it does look like you already knew what you were looking
> for.
>
> So I ask, how did you find out that it even existed?
>
> Maybe other such things exist.
>
> David

The above link looks like the original ZFS on-disk format doc, which
is out-of-date now. You can find this doc and other older material
at the opensolaris/zfs page, here:

http://hub.opensolaris.org/bin/view/Community+Group+zfs/docs

For admin level issues, I would recommend the ZFS admin guide
or the zfs/zpool man pages.

If you have specific questions about ZFS internals, you might review
the Illumos code or ask questions on the ZFS discussion list.

Thanks, Cindy

[adirtymindisajoyforever]

Op zaterdag 5 januari 2013 00:30:06 UTC+1 schreef David Combs het volgende:

once I met this man:

http://mbruning.blogspot.fr/2009/12/zfs-data-recovery.html