Do you use a password manager?

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Unbreakable Disease

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Jul 12, 2021, 5:53:31 AMJul 12
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My 50-year old brain isn't capable of memorizing that many passwords
anymore, so I use KeePassXC. I keep basically everything here including
my financial passwords and credit card data, with the exception of
passwords that I would have to remember anyway (full-disk encryption,
login, primary e-mail passwords, etc.)

Overall, it's much easier to remember and much harder to forget 10
complicated passwords that you use everyday than 100+ simple passwords
you use every month or even less.

I can't speak about Windows version of KeePass, because with the
exception of playing games not available on Macintosh, I haven't used
one since Windows 95 days.
--
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Wade Garrett

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Jul 12, 2021, 7:37:38 AMJul 12
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On 7/12/21 5:53 AM, Unbreakable Disease wrote:
> My 50-year old brain isn't capable of memorizing that many passwords
> anymore, so I use KeePassXC. I keep basically everything here including
> my financial passwords and credit card data, with the exception of
> passwords that I would have to remember anyway (full-disk encryption,
> login, primary e-mail passwords, etc.)
>
> Overall, it's much easier to remember and much harder to forget 10
> complicated passwords that you use everyday than 100+ simple passwords
> you use every month or even less.
>
> I can't speak about Windows version of KeePass, because with the
> exception of playing games not available on Macintosh, I haven't used
> one since Windows 95 days.

I'd like to use a password manager but I'm not comfortable with that
data being on some server somewhere- allegedly encrypted or not.

If there's one that keeps the data just on the local machine, I'd be
interested.

I keep a spreadsheet with my PWs on my FileVault-encrypted iMac hard
drive and copy/paste to logins that need to stay secure- financial,
vendors, healthcare, etc.

I always log out before leaving the house.

nospam

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Jul 12, 2021, 7:41:20 AMJul 12
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In article <sch9i1$k05$1...@dont-email.me>, Wade Garrett <wa...@cooler.net>
wrote:

> I'd like to use a password manager but I'm not comfortable with that
> data being on some server somewhere- allegedly encrypted or not.
>
> If there's one that keeps the data just on the local machine, I'd be
> interested.

most do, but that means syncing between devices will be limited or
non-existent.

Andy K.

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Jul 12, 2021, 9:14:54 AMJul 12
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I'm using KeepassX which is purely local, and am very happy with it.

AndyK

Scott Alfter

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Jul 12, 2021, 11:17:44 AMJul 12
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In article <sch9i1$k05$1...@dont-email.me>, Wade Garrett <wa...@cooler.net> wrote:
>On 7/12/21 5:53 AM, Unbreakable Disease wrote:
>> My 50-year old brain isn't capable of memorizing that many passwords
>> anymore, so I use KeePassXC. I keep basically everything here including
>> my financial passwords and credit card data, with the exception of
>> passwords that I would have to remember anyway (full-disk encryption,
>> login, primary e-mail passwords, etc.)
>>
>> Overall, it's much easier to remember and much harder to forget 10
>> complicated passwords that you use everyday than 100+ simple passwords
>> you use every month or even less.
>>
>> I can't speak about Windows version of KeePass, because with the
>> exception of playing games not available on Macintosh, I haven't used
>> one since Windows 95 days.
>
>I'd like to use a password manager but I'm not comfortable with that
>data being on some server somewhere- allegedly encrypted or not.
>
>If there's one that keeps the data just on the local machine, I'd be
>interested.

KeePass stores its file wherever you tell it. It could be local storage,
storage on a server you control (as on a VPS or a dedicated server), or
whatever cloud storage is supported on the OS you're using. I use a WebDAV
share on a VPS. It's accessible to my phone and my computers, but not to
others. (I suppose Linode could grab the file, but without the password to
unlock it, it's useless to anybody else.)

_/_
/ v \ Scott Alfter (remove the obvious to send mail)
(IIGS( https://alfter.us/ Top-posting!
\_^_/ >What's the most annoying thing on Usenet?

Rich

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Jul 12, 2021, 11:40:39 AMJul 12
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In comp.misc Wade Garrett <wa...@cooler.net> wrote:
> On 7/12/21 5:53 AM, Unbreakable Disease wrote:
>> My 50-year old brain isn't capable of memorizing that many passwords
>> anymore, so I use KeePassXC. I keep basically everything here including
>> my financial passwords and credit card data, with the exception of
>> passwords that I would have to remember anyway (full-disk encryption,
>> login, primary e-mail passwords, etc.)
>>
>> Overall, it's much easier to remember and much harder to forget 10
>> complicated passwords that you use everyday than 100+ simple passwords
>> you use every month or even less.
>>
>> I can't speak about Windows version of KeePass, because with the
>> exception of playing games not available on Macintosh, I haven't used
>> one since Windows 95 days.
>
> I'd like to use a password manager but I'm not comfortable with that
> data being on some server somewhere- allegedly encrypted or not.
>
> If there's one that keeps the data just on the local machine, I'd be
> interested.

This one stores everything locally:
https://github.com/zdia/gorilla

There are probably others that do so as well.

Keith Thompson

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Jul 12, 2021, 2:52:40 PMJul 12
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[I don't know why the OP cross-posted to alt.atheism. I've dropped it]
I use PasswordSafe https://pwsafe.org/ .

It's a Windows application with clones available for Android, iOS, and Mac.

There's a Linux version, available as "passwordsafe" in the Ubuntu repos
(and presumably others), but I haven't gotten it to work.

password-gorilla is a Linux application that uses the same file format
and should be available in the package repos for most distributions.

Keeping the database synchronized across devices is left as an exercise.

--
Keith Thompson (The_Other_Keith) Keith.S.T...@gmail.com
Working, but not speaking, for Philips
void Void(void) { Void(); } /* The recursive call of the void */

Lewis

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Jul 12, 2021, 3:58:44 PMJul 12
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In message <874kcz5...@nosuchdomain.example.com> Keith Thompson <Keith.S.T...@gmail.com> wrote:
> [I don't know why the OP cross-posted to alt.atheism. I've dropped it]

> Wade Garrett <wa...@cooler.net> writes:
>> On 7/12/21 5:53 AM, Unbreakable Disease wrote:
>>> My 50-year old brain isn't capable of memorizing that many passwords
>>> anymore, so I use KeePassXC. I keep basically everything here
>>> including my financial passwords and credit card data, with the
>>> exception of passwords that I would have to remember anyway
>>> (full-disk encryption, login, primary e-mail passwords, etc.)
>>> Overall, it's much easier to remember and much harder to forget 10
>>> complicated passwords that you use everyday than 100+ simple
>>> passwords you use every month or even less.
>>> I can't speak about Windows version of KeePass, because with the
>>> exception of playing games not available on Macintosh, I haven't
>>> used one since Windows 95 days.
>>
>> I'd like to use a password manager but I'm not comfortable with that
>> data being on some server somewhere- allegedly encrypted or not.

There is no "allegedly" about the encryption with LastPass, 1password,
or BitWarden. I know all three of these have been certified and tested
by third parties.

Having them on a server makes it simple to sync them to multiple
devices. At least 1Password can be synced manaully, and I would not be
surprised if the others allowed this in some way as well.

>> I keep a spreadsheet with my PWs on my FileVault-encrypted iMac hard
>> drive and copy/paste to logins that need to stay secure- financial,
>> vendors, healthcare, etc.

That is a very inefficient system, but it is a lot better than what
some people do. It also encourages patterns of passwords. One of the
main advantages of a manager is truly random passwords.

> I use PasswordSafe https://pwsafe.org/ .

> It's a Windows application with clones available for Android, iOS, and Mac.

> There's a Linux version, available as "passwordsafe" in the Ubuntu repos
> (and presumably others), but I haven't gotten it to work.

> password-gorilla is a Linux application that uses the same file format
> and should be available in the package repos for most distributions.

> Keeping the database synchronized across devices is left as an exercise.

And that means you end up with not having the password you need unless
you limit your use of the Internet to a single machine.


--
Everything you say is so boring, I replace it with dubstep.

Keith Thompson

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Jul 12, 2021, 4:15:36 PMJul 12
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Lewis <g.k...@kreme.dont-email.me> writes:
> In message <874kcz5...@nosuchdomain.example.com> Keith Thompson <Keith.S.T...@gmail.com> wrote:
[...]
>> I use PasswordSafe https://pwsafe.org/ .
>
>> It's a Windows application with clones available for Android, iOS, and Mac.
>
>> There's a Linux version, available as "passwordsafe" in the Ubuntu repos
>> (and presumably others), but I haven't gotten it to work.
>
>> password-gorilla is a Linux application that uses the same file format
>> and should be available in the package repos for most distributions.
>
>> Keeping the database synchronized across devices is left as an exercise.
>
> And that means you end up with not having the password you need unless
> you limit your use of the Internet to a single machine.

Not if I replicate the encrypted database across the machines I use.
I understand that that could open a potential security hole if
I'm not sufficiently careful. But if I *am* sufficiently careful,
my database doesn't exist on anyone else's server.

nospam

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Jul 12, 2021, 4:27:06 PMJul 12
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In article <87zgur4...@nosuchdomain.example.com>, Keith Thompson
<Keith.S.T...@gmail.com> wrote:

> >> Keeping the database synchronized across devices is left as an exercise.
> >
> > And that means you end up with not having the password you need unless
> > you limit your use of the Internet to a single machine.
>
> Not if I replicate the encrypted database across the machines I use.
> I understand that that could open a potential security hole if
> I'm not sufficiently careful. But if I *am* sufficiently careful,
> my database doesn't exist on anyone else's server.

and if you forget to sync it, murphy's law states that you won't have
the password you need.

computers are there to do work *for* you.

Keith Thompson

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Jul 12, 2021, 4:48:19 PMJul 12
to
Of course. That happens now and then. The solution is to go back and
sync it.

> computers are there to do work *for* you.

I'm not going to go into too much detail about *how* I synchronize my
password database. I'm not confident that my method is sufficiently
secure. (Yes, I'm doing "security through obscurity", but only as a
layer on top of other methods.)

I'm comfortable with the amount of manual work my method requires.
Others won't be.

But what do you suggest?

nospam

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Jul 12, 2021, 5:14:32 PMJul 12
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In article <87v95f4...@nosuchdomain.example.com>, Keith Thompson
<Keith.S.T...@gmail.com> wrote:

> >> >> Keeping the database synchronized across devices is left as an exercise.
> >> >
> >> > And that means you end up with not having the password you need unless
> >> > you limit your use of the Internet to a single machine.
> >>
> >> Not if I replicate the encrypted database across the machines I use.
> >> I understand that that could open a potential security hole if
> >> I'm not sufficiently careful. But if I *am* sufficiently careful,
> >> my database doesn't exist on anyone else's server.
> >
> > and if you forget to sync it, murphy's law states that you won't have
> > the password you need.
>
> Of course. That happens now and then. The solution is to go back and
> sync it.

no, the solution is to have it automatically sync.

> > computers are there to do work *for* you.

^^this^^

> I'm not going to go into too much detail about *how* I synchronize my
> password database

you already said how: you manually sync it.

automatically syncing means a new or changed entry is available on
other devices within seconds, no additional effort required.

Keith Thompson

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Jul 12, 2021, 5:43:29 PMJul 12
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nospam <nos...@nospam.invalid> writes:
> In article <87v95f4...@nosuchdomain.example.com>, Keith Thompson
> <Keith.S.T...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >> >> Keeping the database synchronized across devices is left as an exercise.
>> >> >
>> >> > And that means you end up with not having the password you need unless
>> >> > you limit your use of the Internet to a single machine.
>> >>
>> >> Not if I replicate the encrypted database across the machines I use.
>> >> I understand that that could open a potential security hole if
>> >> I'm not sufficiently careful. But if I *am* sufficiently careful,
>> >> my database doesn't exist on anyone else's server.
>> >
>> > and if you forget to sync it, murphy's law states that you won't have
>> > the password you need.
>>
>> Of course. That happens now and then. The solution is to go back and
>> sync it.
>
> no, the solution is to have it automatically sync.

The solution *I use* is to go back and sync it. It works.

>> > computers are there to do work *for* you.
>
> ^^this^^
>
>> I'm not going to go into too much detail about *how* I synchronize my
>> password database
>
> you already said how: you manually sync it.

There's more to it than that.

> automatically syncing means a new or changed entry is available on
> other devices within seconds, no additional effort required.

I know what "automatically syncing" means. You haven't said anything
about how to do that. (I use Ubuntu, Windows, and Android.)

For my situation, I've decided (so far) that automation would be more
effort than it's worth *for me*. I'm willing to change my mind if
presented with new information. If you have none to offer, that's fine.

Unbreakable Disease

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Jul 12, 2021, 5:45:13 PMJul 12
to
I use KeePassXC which is a modernized version of KeepassX. Can be also
cloudified if you put the database on Dropbox (which I don't recommend)
or somewhere else.

Unbreakable Disease

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Jul 12, 2021, 5:46:28 PMJul 12
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On 12.07.2021 15:36, Lamey wrote:
> If it's out there than people can access it if they want.
> Hackers are looking out for easy targets, almost nobody is going to
chase Scott Alfter. Too much risk and unknown benefits.

Unbreakable Disease

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Jul 12, 2021, 5:51:04 PMJul 12
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On 12.07.2021 15:28, Jolly Roger wrote:
> On 2021-07-12, Unbreakable Disease <unbre...@secmail.pro> wrote:
>> My 50-year old brain isn't capable of memorizing that many passwords
>> anymore, so I use KeePassXC. I keep basically everything here
>> including my financial passwords and credit card data, with the
>> exception of passwords that I would have to remember anyway (full-disk
>> encryption, login, primary e-mail passwords, etc.)
>>
>> Overall, it's much easier to remember and much harder to forget 10
>> complicated passwords that you use everyday than 100+ simple passwords
>> you use every month or even less.
>>
>> I can't speak about Windows version of KeePass, because with the
>> exception of playing games not available on Macintosh, I haven't used
>> one since Windows 95 days.
>
> I don't see anything wrong with using Apple's built-in Keychain password
> manager. The only drawback it has is that it's Apple-only, and that has
> never been a reason not to use it for me. Most of my family uses it and
> is happy with it.
>
> The iCloud Keychain service is optional and seamlessly synchronizes your
> password database between all of your Apple devices. It is also highly
> encrypted using end-to-end encryption so that it cannot be accessed by
> anyone but you.
>
> Others here will recommend cross-platform solutions, but if you have no
> need for synchronizing your password database to other platforms,
> Apple's built-in Keychain is quite a secure and capable solution, and
> it's integrated with all of Apple's operating systems by default.
>
I need to use my database on both Mac OS and Linux, so I use KeePassXC.
And what if you are left with the Keychain file and Apple goes south?
How you will migrate to KeePassXC? Your file is going to be nothing more
than useless junk, so at least call Apple or e-mail Tim Cook directly at
tim...@apple.com to allow to export Keychain data to other password
managers. I doubt that Apple will listen to us, but trying is better
than simply giving up.

nospam

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Jul 12, 2021, 6:11:24 PMJul 12
to
In article <87r1g34...@nosuchdomain.example.com>, Keith Thompson
<Keith.S.T...@gmail.com> wrote:

> >> >> >> Keeping the database synchronized across devices is left as an
> >> >> >> exercise.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > And that means you end up with not having the password you need unless
> >> >> > you limit your use of the Internet to a single machine.
> >> >>
> >> >> Not if I replicate the encrypted database across the machines I use.
> >> >> I understand that that could open a potential security hole if
> >> >> I'm not sufficiently careful. But if I *am* sufficiently careful,
> >> >> my database doesn't exist on anyone else's server.
> >> >
> >> > and if you forget to sync it, murphy's law states that you won't have
> >> > the password you need.
> >>
> >> Of course. That happens now and then. The solution is to go back and
> >> sync it.
> >
> > no, the solution is to have it automatically sync.
>
> The solution *I use* is to go back and sync it. It works.

except when it doesn't, which you admit happens 'now and then'.

> >> > computers are there to do work *for* you.
> >
> > ^^this^^
> >
> >> I'm not going to go into too much detail about *how* I synchronize my
> >> password database
> >
> > you already said how: you manually sync it.
>
> There's more to it than that.

those details are irrelevant. the fact is that it's manual which means
it's a lot of extra work with the opportunity to screw it up.

i suspect whatever system you're using does not properly handle merges.

> > automatically syncing means a new or changed entry is available on
> > other devices within seconds, no additional effort required.
>
> I know what "automatically syncing" means.

then why not use it?

> You haven't said anything
> about how to do that. (I use Ubuntu, Windows, and Android.)

what's to know? choose a password manager that offers automatic sync.
done.

> For my situation, I've decided (so far) that automation would be more
> effort than it's worth *for me*. I'm willing to change my mind if
> presented with new information. If you have none to offer, that's fine.

what effort? download a new password manager app that offers syncing,
then export passwords from your existing password manager and import
them to the new one. it should take a minute or two.

Keith Thompson

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Jul 12, 2021, 6:52:23 PMJul 12
to
It does not, and I did run into a problem with that not too long ago.
It took some manual work to resolve it.

>> > automatically syncing means a new or changed entry is available on
>> > other devices within seconds, no additional effort required.
>>
>> I know what "automatically syncing" means.
>
> then why not use it?
>
>> You haven't said anything
>> about how to do that. (I use Ubuntu, Windows, and Android.)
>
> what's to know? choose a password manager that offers automatic sync.
> done.

I've spent *some* time looking into alternatives, but perhaps not
enough. The password manager I use uses a local file. Others I've
looked at store data "in the cloud", i.e., on someone else's computer.
I've decided *for myself* that I don't want to store my passwords in the
cloud, and that I'm willing to pay the price of more difficult local
updates.

>> For my situation, I've decided (so far) that automation would be more
>> effort than it's worth *for me*. I'm willing to change my mind if
>> presented with new information. If you have none to offer, that's fine.
>
> what effort? download a new password manager app that offers syncing,
> then export passwords from your existing password manager and import
> them to the new one. it should take a minute or two.

And install it on all my devices, and learn how to use it -- plus
convincing myself that it's sufficiently secure. Much more than
"a minute or two".

Is there a password manager that supports automatic sync among Linux,
Android, and Windows *without* storing any of my information in the
cloud (i.e., on someone else's computer)? (It's possible that I hadn't
made it clear enough that I don't want to use cloud storage.)

nospam

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Jul 12, 2021, 7:18:06 PMJul 12
to
In article <87mtqr4...@nosuchdomain.example.com>, Keith Thompson
some store it in the cloud, some store it on a local server. some do
either.

another option is set up a personal cloud hosted on your own hardware,
over which you have full control, which has many other benefits than
just password syncing.

in every case, it's encrypted, so even if someone did gain access to
the database, they won't get the actual passwords, at least not without
a shitload of effort trying to crack it (assuming you used a good
master passphrase).

keep in mind that any of your hardware is lost or stolen, someone will
have easy access to that database, no hacking of cloud servers
required.

nothing is 100% safe.

> >> For my situation, I've decided (so far) that automation would be more
> >> effort than it's worth *for me*. I'm willing to change my mind if
> >> presented with new information. If you have none to offer, that's fine.
> >
> > what effort? download a new password manager app that offers syncing,
> > then export passwords from your existing password manager and import
> > them to the new one. it should take a minute or two.
>
> And install it on all my devices, and learn how to use it -- plus
> convincing myself that it's sufficiently secure. Much more than
> "a minute or two".

true, but that's the easy part. download a bunch, try them out, put in
some random passwords and see which ones fit your workflow.

> Is there a password manager that supports automatic sync among Linux,
> Android, and Windows *without* storing any of my information in the
> cloud (i.e., on someone else's computer)? (It's possible that I hadn't
> made it clear enough that I don't want to use cloud storage.)

there are several, each with different mixes of features, some with
better integration than others, and only you can decide which one fits
your needs.

Keith Thompson

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Jul 12, 2021, 7:57:54 PMJul 12
to
nospam <nos...@nospam.invalid> writes:
> In article <87mtqr4...@nosuchdomain.example.com>, Keith Thompson
> <Keith.S.T...@gmail.com> wrote:
[...]
>> Is there a password manager that supports automatic sync among Linux,
>> Android, and Windows *without* storing any of my information in the
>> cloud (i.e., on someone else's computer)? (It's possible that I hadn't
>> made it clear enough that I don't want to use cloud storage.)
>
> there are several, each with different mixes of features, some with
> better integration than others, and only you can decide which one fits
> your needs.

Are you unwilling to give examples? Is there one that you use (or do
you use a cloud solution)?

I tried KeePass a while ago, and it doesn't do what I want. (One
feature of the Android version of PasswordSave that I like is that it
implements a virtual keyboard, so passwords don't have to go through the
system clipboard.) Someone here mentioned KeePassXC, which I might try,
but I don't see an Android version.

I just found a reference to something called Syncthing, which I'll also
look into; it's a continuous file synchronization program, not
specifically related to passwords.

nospam

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Jul 12, 2021, 8:25:43 PMJul 12
to
In article <87im1f3...@nosuchdomain.example.com>, Keith Thompson
<Keith.S.T...@gmail.com> wrote:

> >> Is there a password manager that supports automatic sync among Linux,
> >> Android, and Windows *without* storing any of my information in the
> >> cloud (i.e., on someone else's computer)? (It's possible that I hadn't
> >> made it clear enough that I don't want to use cloud storage.)
> >
> > there are several, each with different mixes of features, some with
> > better integration than others, and only you can decide which one fits
> > your needs.
>
> Are you unwilling to give examples? Is there one that you use (or do
> you use a cloud solution)?

i use 1password and keep everything on my devices, however, it does
sync via the cloud. there is (was) a way to sync locally but that had
some limitations and i'm not sure if that's even still an option.

they also offer a cloud version (their servers) but that's not required.

it does look like they now have linux support but i don't know how good
that is. that's relatively recent.

> I tried KeePass a while ago, and it doesn't do what I want. (One
> feature of the Android version of PasswordSave that I like is that it
> implements a virtual keyboard, so passwords don't have to go through the
> system clipboard.) Someone here mentioned KeePassXC, which I might try,
> but I don't see an Android version.

1password has a background process which directly communicates with
browser extension, skipping the clipboard entirely.

some use the system clipboard which is then auto-erased moments later.

> I just found a reference to something called Syncthing, which I'll also
> look into; it's a continuous file synchronization program, not
> specifically related to passwords.

syncthing is good. also check out nextcloud, which can be installed on
a variety of hardware as well as in a docker container or even a
raspberry pi (although that's not exactly fast).

Rich

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Jul 12, 2021, 9:08:27 PMJul 12
to
In comp.misc Keith Thompson <Keith.S.T...@gmail.com> wrote:
> nospam <nos...@nospam.invalid> writes:
>> In article <87mtqr4...@nosuchdomain.example.com>, Keith Thompson
>> <Keith.S.T...@gmail.com> wrote:
> [...]
>>> Is there a password manager that supports automatic sync among Linux,
>>> Android, and Windows *without* storing any of my information in the
>>> cloud (i.e., on someone else's computer)? (It's possible that I hadn't
>>> made it clear enough that I don't want to use cloud storage.)
>>
>> there are several, each with different mixes of features, some with
>> better integration than others, and only you can decide which one fits
>> your needs.
>
> Are you unwilling to give examples? Is there one that you use (or do
> you use a cloud solution)?
>
> I tried KeePass a while ago, and it doesn't do what I want. (One
> feature of the Android version of PasswordSave that I like is that it
> implements a virtual keyboard, so passwords don't have to go through the
> system clipboard.) Someone here mentioned KeePassXC, which I might try,
> but I don't see an Android version.
>
> I just found a reference to something called Syncthing, which I'll also
> look into; it's a continuous file synchronization program, not
> specifically related to passwords.

You mentioned password-gorilla in an earlier message. It contains a
"merge" feature that somewhat reduces the burden in manually
maintaining sync across devices.

Keith Thompson

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Jul 13, 2021, 12:42:07 AMJul 13
to
When I tried KeePass on Android, I didn't find a way to copy a password
or other text from KeePass to another arbitrary application. Possibly I
didn't spend enough time exploring it. Something that *only* uses a
browser extension would not be useful to me.

> some use the system clipboard which is then auto-erased moments later.
>
>> I just found a reference to something called Syncthing, which I'll also
>> look into; it's a continuous file synchronization program, not
>> specifically related to passwords.
>
> syncthing is good. also check out nextcloud, which can be installed on
> a variety of hardware as well as in a docker container or even a
> raspberry pi (although that's not exactly fast).

Yes, I have a NextCloud instance, but I'm not sure I want to store (even
encrypted) passwords on it.

Scott Alfter

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Jul 13, 2021, 10:43:39 AMJul 13
to
In article <87im1f3...@nosuchdomain.example.com>,
Keith Thompson <Keith.S.T...@gmail.com> wrote:
>I tried KeePass a while ago, and it doesn't do what I want. (One
>feature of the Android version of PasswordSave that I like is that it
>implements a virtual keyboard, so passwords don't have to go through the
>system clipboard.)

Keepass2Android does that. It interoperates just fine with KeePass, which I
run on Windows and Linux (it's a .NET binary, so it runs fine on both).

Lewis

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Jul 13, 2021, 11:48:14 AMJul 13
to
In message <87zgur4...@nosuchdomain.example.com> Keith Thompson <Keith.S.T...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Lewis <g.k...@kreme.dont-email.me> writes:
>> In message <874kcz5...@nosuchdomain.example.com> Keith Thompson <Keith.S.T...@gmail.com> wrote:
> [...]
>>> I use PasswordSafe https://pwsafe.org/ .
>>
>>> It's a Windows application with clones available for Android, iOS, and Mac.
>>
>>> There's a Linux version, available as "passwordsafe" in the Ubuntu repos
>>> (and presumably others), but I haven't gotten it to work.
>>
>>> password-gorilla is a Linux application that uses the same file format
>>> and should be available in the package repos for most distributions.
>>
>>> Keeping the database synchronized across devices is left as an exercise.
>>
>> And that means you end up with not having the password you need unless
>> you limit your use of the Internet to a single machine.

> Not if I replicate the encrypted database across the machines I use.

Yes, because you are perfect and will ALWAYS sync on EVERY change.

Not going to happen. You will forget and you will will be caught out
without some recent change or update because you are NOT perfect. Sorry,
but those are just facts.

> I understand that that could open a potential security hole if
> I'm not sufficiently careful. But if I *am* sufficiently careful,
> my database doesn't exist on anyone else's server.

Whopdie doo. That doesn’t make it more secure, you know, just more
obscure, more fragile, more prone to failure, and more likely that you
do not have the information you need when you need it.


--
'Now what?' it said. IT'S UP TO YOU. IT'S ALWAYS UP TO YOU.
--Maskerade

Lewis

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Jul 13, 2021, 11:59:01 AMJul 13
to
In message <87im1f3...@nosuchdomain.example.com> Keith Thompson <Keith.S.T...@gmail.com> wrote:
> nospam <nos...@nospam.invalid> writes:
>> In article <87mtqr4...@nosuchdomain.example.com>, Keith Thompson
>> <Keith.S.T...@gmail.com> wrote:
> [...]
>>> Is there a password manager that supports automatic sync among Linux,
>>> Android, and Windows *without* storing any of my information in the
>>> cloud (i.e., on someone else's computer)? (It's possible that I hadn't
>>> made it clear enough that I don't want to use cloud storage.)
>>
>> there are several, each with different mixes of features, some with
>> better integration than others, and only you can decide which one fits
>> your needs.

> Are you unwilling to give examples? Is there one that you use (or do
> you use a cloud solution)?

Examples have been given. You see to think that using a system that you
yourself admit is inferior and prone to failure is somehow a virtue, so
you are unlikely to care about other solutions and that holds up since
you have ignored the other solutions offered.

> I tried KeePass a while ago, and it doesn't do what I want.

Has anyone mentioned KeePass? I know I haven;ts since I have never used
it, and I don't recall anyone else mentioning it in this thread. I do
not recall that Keepass does syncing, you hae to sync the database
yourself.

> but I don't see an Android version.

If you are trusting Android to store your password files you should have
no issue with FAR more secure and tested cloud storage.

> I just found a reference to something called Syncthing, which I'll also
> look into; it's a continuous file synchronization program, not
> specifically related to passwords.

If it cannot manage merges, it is useless for password management.

--
Hello Diane, I'm Bucky Goldstein

Keith Thompson

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Jul 13, 2021, 4:55:22 PMJul 13
to
Lewis <g.k...@kreme.dont-email.me> writes:
> In message <87im1f3...@nosuchdomain.example.com> Keith Thompson <Keith.S.T...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> nospam <nos...@nospam.invalid> writes:
>>> In article <87mtqr4...@nosuchdomain.example.com>, Keith Thompson
>>> <Keith.S.T...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> [...]
>>>> Is there a password manager that supports automatic sync among Linux,
>>>> Android, and Windows *without* storing any of my information in the
>>>> cloud (i.e., on someone else's computer)? (It's possible that I hadn't
>>>> made it clear enough that I don't want to use cloud storage.)
>>>
>>> there are several, each with different mixes of features, some with
>>> better integration than others, and only you can decide which one fits
>>> your needs.
>
>> Are you unwilling to give examples? Is there one that you use (or do
>> you use a cloud solution)?
>
> Examples have been given. You see to think that using a system that you
> yourself admit is inferior and prone to failure is somehow a virtue, so
> you are unlikely to care about other solutions and that holds up since
> you have ignored the other solutions offered.

I don't believe anything I've written here could reasonably be read to
imply that I think the system I use is "somehow a virtue". It works for
me. I'm more than willing to consider better ideas.

I've had occasional problems with the setup I use. Those problems have
not included a loss of information and are not likely to.

>> I tried KeePass a while ago, and it doesn't do what I want.
>
> Has anyone mentioned KeePass? I know I haven;ts since I have never used
> it, and I don't recall anyone else mentioning it in this thread. I do
> not recall that Keepass does syncing, you hae to sync the database
> yourself.

Yes, I mentioned KeePass. Am I not allowed to mention something that
wasn't mentioned before?

>> but I don't see an Android version.
>
> If you are trusting Android to store your password files you should have
> no issue with FAR more secure and tested cloud storage.

Opinion noted.

"Cloud storage" is not a single thing that is "secure and tested". It's
likely that some of the cloud storage solutions are sufficiently secure,
but I haven't been using cloud storage and am hesitant to start, since,
as I've said several times, my current system works for me.

>> I just found a reference to something called Syncthing, which I'll also
>> look into; it's a continuous file synchronization program, not
>> specifically related to passwords.
>
> If it cannot manage merges, it is useless for password management.

I have not found that to be the case.

Perhaps you could offer advice rather than just shooting down ideas you
don't like.

Oregonian Haruspex

unread,
Jul 13, 2021, 9:29:32 PMJul 13
to
I use an old electronic organizer to store my passwords, and I keep a
printed hard copy locked in my safe. I don’t trust anything more
technological than that combination.

%

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Jul 13, 2021, 9:43:48 PMJul 13
to
i don't use anything i have no passwords

Unbreakable Disease

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Jul 14, 2021, 3:00:23 AMJul 14
to
Because you instead use your DNA to log in to your accounts.

Unbreakable Disease

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Jul 14, 2021, 3:04:48 AMJul 14
to
Well, the biggest security hole is most of the time an user itself.
You'd be better off syncing your password manager file through the cloud.

Unbreakable Disease

unread,
Jul 14, 2021, 3:10:56 AMJul 14
to
You can use Syncthing if you are paranoid. That would probably be the
best compromise between usability and security.

If you are even more paranoid, you can keep manually syncing, but keep
in mind that once you get malware or somebody takes a physical control
over your device, you are pwned anyway no matter how much security
measures you take.

Otto J. Makela

unread,
Jul 16, 2021, 9:34:12 AMJul 16
to
Wade Garrett <wa...@cooler.net> wrote:

> I'd like to use a password manager but I'm not comfortable with that
> data being on some server somewhere- allegedly encrypted or not.
>
> If there's one that keeps the data just on the local machine, I'd be
> interested.

I believe the classic "pass" (based on pgp) is available on various Unix
implementations, including MacOS.

https://www.passwordstore.org/
--
/* * * Otto J. Makela <o...@iki.fi> * * * * * * * * * */
/* Phone: +358 40 765 5772, ICBM: N 60 10' E 24 55' */
/* Mail: Mechelininkatu 26 B 27, FI-00100 Helsinki */
/* * * Computers Rule 01001111 01001011 * * * * * * */

Bob Eager

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Jul 16, 2021, 11:06:18 AMJul 16
to
On Fri, 16 Jul 2021 16:34:09 +0300, Otto J. Makela wrote:

> Wade Garrett <wa...@cooler.net> wrote:
>
>> I'd like to use a password manager but I'm not comfortable with that
>> data being on some server somewhere- allegedly encrypted or not.
>>
>> If there's one that keeps the data just on the local machine, I'd be
>> interested.
>
> I believe the classic "pass" (based on pgp) is available on various Unix
> implementations, including MacOS.
>
> https://www.passwordstore.org/

Indeed. I use it all the time. And it would be easy to do automatic
replication to anything that supported a shell.

--
Using UNIX since v6 (1975)...

Use the BIG mirror service in the UK:
http://www.mirrorservice.org

Wade Garrett

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Jul 16, 2021, 11:19:22 AMJul 16
to
On 7/16/21 9:34 AM, Otto J. Makela wrote:
> Wade Garrett <wa...@cooler.net> wrote:
>
>> I'd like to use a password manager but I'm not comfortable with that
>> data being on some server somewhere- allegedly encrypted or not.
>>
>> If there's one that keeps the data just on the local machine, I'd be
>> interested.
>
> I believe the classic "pass" (based on pgp) is available on various Unix
> implementations, including MacOS.
>
> https://www.passwordstore.org/
>
Thanks- but use/setup looks a bit above my pay grade :-)

Lewis

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Jul 16, 2021, 4:10:39 PMJul 16
to
In message <ildlj9...@mid.individual.net> Bob Eager <news...@eager.cx> wrote:
> On Fri, 16 Jul 2021 16:34:09 +0300, Otto J. Makela wrote:

>> Wade Garrett <wa...@cooler.net> wrote:
>>
>>> I'd like to use a password manager but I'm not comfortable with that
>>> data being on some server somewhere- allegedly encrypted or not.
>>>
>>> If there's one that keeps the data just on the local machine, I'd be
>>> interested.
>>
>> I believe the classic "pass" (based on pgp) is available on various Unix
>> implementations, including MacOS.
>>
>> https://www.passwordstore.org/

> Indeed. I use it all the time. And it would be easy to do automatic
> replication to anything that supported a shell.

I find this works well if I don't happen to have 1Password available
(like on a remote machine, for example)

uuidgen| sha256sum| cut -c -24

(or any number from 16 on up to 64, though i do not need a 64 hex digit
password, ever.)

But I add those passwords to my password manager immediately, of course.

--
Hey kids, shake it loose together the spotlight's hitting something
That's been known to change the weather we'll kill the fatted
calf tonight So stick around you're gonna hear electric music:
Solid walls of sound

Bob Eager

unread,
Jul 16, 2021, 5:51:55 PMJul 16
to
On Fri, 16 Jul 2021 20:10:38 +0000, Lewis wrote:

> In message <ildlj9...@mid.individual.net> Bob Eager
> <news...@eager.cx> wrote:
>> On Fri, 16 Jul 2021 16:34:09 +0300, Otto J. Makela wrote:
>
>>> Wade Garrett <wa...@cooler.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>> I'd like to use a password manager but I'm not comfortable with that
>>>> data being on some server somewhere- allegedly encrypted or not.
>>>>
>>>> If there's one that keeps the data just on the local machine, I'd be
>>>> interested.
>>>
>>> I believe the classic "pass" (based on pgp) is available on various
>>> Unix implementations, including MacOS.
>>>
>>> https://www.passwordstore.org/
>
>> Indeed. I use it all the time. And it would be easy to do automatic
>> replication to anything that supported a shell.
>
> I find this works well if I don't happen to have 1Password available
> (like on a remote machine, for example)
>
> uuidgen| sha256sum| cut -c -24
>
> (or any number from 16 on up to 64, though i do not need a 64 hex digit
> password, ever.)
>
> But I add those passwords to my password manager immediately, of course.

Mine, in that situation, is:

dd if=/dev/random count=1 bs=16 2>/dev/null | b64encode - | \
sed -e 's/=*$//' -e '/^begin/d' -e '/^$/d'

Lewis

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Jul 16, 2021, 6:05:45 PMJul 16
to
There's no "b64encode" on my macOS.


--
'They say that whoever pays the piper calls the tune.' 'But,
gentlemen,' said Mr Saveloy, 'whoever holds a knife to the
piper's throat writes the symphony.' --Interesting Times

Bob Eager

unread,
Jul 16, 2021, 6:19:15 PMJul 16
to
Sorry - it's a FreeBSD command, equivalent to uuencode -m (which you may
or may not have). I like the general idea of using /dev/random, though.

Alan Browne

unread,
Jul 19, 2021, 10:40:10 AMJul 19
to
On 2021-07-12 05:53, Unbreakable Disease wrote:
> My 50-year old brain isn't capable of memorizing that many passwords
> anymore, so I use KeePassXC. I keep basically everything here including
> my financial passwords and credit card data, with the exception of
> passwords that I would have to remember anyway (full-disk encryption,
> login, primary e-mail passwords, etc.)
>
> Overall, it's much easier to remember and much harder to forget 10
> complicated passwords that you use everyday than 100+ simple passwords
> you use every month or even less.
>
> I can't speak about Windows version of KeePass, because with the
> exception of playing games not available on Macintosh, I haven't used
> one since Windows 95 days.

I use 1Password. Be careful of the option you select. They are leaning
towards "rent" model which I despise.

You can keep the encrypted master file on iCloud or Dropbox so it's
available to all of your devices. Avoid the 'rent' model if possible.

--
"...there are many humorous things in this world; among them the white
man's notion that he is less savage than the other savages."
-Samuel Clemens

Alan Browne

unread,
Jul 19, 2021, 10:42:45 AMJul 19
to
On 2021-07-12 07:37, Wade Garrett wrote:
> On 7/12/21 5:53 AM, Unbreakable Disease wrote:
>> My 50-year old brain isn't capable of memorizing that many passwords
>> anymore, so I use KeePassXC. I keep basically everything here
>> including my financial passwords and credit card data, with the
>> exception of passwords that I would have to remember anyway (full-disk
>> encryption, login, primary e-mail passwords, etc.)
>>
>> Overall, it's much easier to remember and much harder to forget 10
>> complicated passwords that you use everyday than 100+ simple passwords
>> you use every month or even less.
>>
>> I can't speak about Windows version of KeePass, because with the
>> exception of playing games not available on Macintosh, I haven't used
>> one since Windows 95 days.
>
> I'd like to use a password manager but I'm not comfortable with that
> data being on some server somewhere- allegedly encrypted or not.

256 bit AES encryption not good enough for you?

>
> If there's one that keeps the data just on the local machine, I'd be
> interested.

1Password has that option as well as using a local server.

>
> I keep a spreadsheet with my PWs on my FileVault-encrypted iMac hard
> drive and copy/paste to logins that need to stay secure- financial,
> vendors, healthcare, etc.

Not very secure. Of course it's your house and that has some security.

But far better to use a manager - even if only on your machine.

>
> I always log out before leaving the house.

My computer does that for me ... well, might be a few minutes after I
leave...

Alan Browne

unread,
Jul 19, 2021, 10:43:42 AMJul 19
to
On 2021-07-12 11:36, Lamey wrote:
> On Mon, 12 Jul 2021 15:17:43 GMT, Scott Alfter
> <sc...@alfter.diespammersdie.us> wrote:
>
>> In article <sch9i1$k05$1...@dont-email.me>, Wade Garrett <wa...@cooler.net> wrote:
>>> On 7/12/21 5:53 AM, Unbreakable Disease wrote:
>>>> My 50-year old brain isn't capable of memorizing that many passwords
>>>> anymore, so I use KeePassXC. I keep basically everything here including
>>>> my financial passwords and credit card data, with the exception of
>>>> passwords that I would have to remember anyway (full-disk encryption,
>>>> login, primary e-mail passwords, etc.)
>>>>
>>>> Overall, it's much easier to remember and much harder to forget 10
>>>> complicated passwords that you use everyday than 100+ simple passwords
>>>> you use every month or even less.
>>>>
>>>> I can't speak about Windows version of KeePass, because with the
>>>> exception of playing games not available on Macintosh, I haven't used
>>>> one since Windows 95 days.
>>>
>>> I'd like to use a password manager but I'm not comfortable with that
>>> data being on some server somewhere- allegedly encrypted or not.
>>>
>>> If there's one that keeps the data just on the local machine, I'd be
>>> interested.
>>
>> KeePass stores its file wherever you tell it. It could be local storage,
>> storage on a server you control (as on a VPS or a dedicated server), or
>> whatever cloud storage is supported on the OS you're using. I use a WebDAV
>> share on a VPS. It's accessible to my phone and my computers, but not to
>> others. (I suppose Linode could grab the file, but without the password to
>> unlock it, it's useless to anybody else.)
>>
> If it's out there than people can access it if they want.

Access ≠ decryption.

Keith Thompson

unread,
Jul 19, 2021, 2:08:16 PMJul 19
to
Alan Browne <bitb...@blackhole.com> writes:
> On 2021-07-12 07:37, Wade Garrett wrote:
[...]
>> I'd like to use a password manager but I'm not comfortable with that
>> data being on some server somewhere- allegedly encrypted or not.
>
> 256 bit AES encryption not good enough for you?

The weak link is not the encryption algorithm, but the key used to
decrypt the data.

[...]

nospam

unread,
Jul 19, 2021, 2:12:48 PMJul 19
to
In article <87r1fu1...@nosuchdomain.example.com>, Keith Thompson
<Keith.S.T...@gmail.com> wrote:

> >> I'd like to use a password manager but I'm not comfortable with that
> >> data being on some server somewhere- allegedly encrypted or not.
> >
> > 256 bit AES encryption not good enough for you?
>
> The weak link is not the encryption algorithm, but the key used to
> decrypt the data.

that's up to you to choose something complex.

hint: don't use 'password123'

Lewis

unread,
Jul 19, 2021, 4:07:47 PMJul 19
to
In message <87r1fu1...@nosuchdomain.example.com> Keith Thompson <Keith.S.T...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Alan Browne <bitb...@blackhole.com> writes:
>> On 2021-07-12 07:37, Wade Garrett wrote:
> [...]
>>> I'd like to use a password manager but I'm not comfortable with that
>>> data being on some server somewhere- allegedly encrypted or not.
>>
>> 256 bit AES encryption not good enough for you?

> The weak link is not the encryption algorithm, but the key used to
> decrypt the data.

Which the user chooses.

Have you done any actual research into this or have you just read
know-nothing clickbait shit?

--
And the three men I admire most, the father son and the holly ghost
they caught the last train for the coast...

Keith Thompson

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Jul 19, 2021, 5:15:37 PMJul 19
to
Lewis <g.k...@kreme.dont-email.me> writes:
> In message <87r1fu1...@nosuchdomain.example.com> Keith Thompson <Keith.S.T...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Alan Browne <bitb...@blackhole.com> writes:
>>> On 2021-07-12 07:37, Wade Garrett wrote:
>> [...]
>>>> I'd like to use a password manager but I'm not comfortable with that
>>>> data being on some server somewhere- allegedly encrypted or not.
>>>
>>> 256 bit AES encryption not good enough for you?
>
>> The weak link is not the encryption algorithm, but the key used to
>> decrypt the data.
>
> Which the user chooses.

Yes, of course.

> Have you done any actual research into this or have you just read
> know-nothing clickbait shit?

Be less rude. If I'm wrong, say so and tell us what's right.

Richard Kettlewell

unread,
Jul 20, 2021, 4:15:46 AMJul 20
to
Keith Thompson <Keith.S.T...@gmail.com> writes:
> Alan Browne <bitb...@blackhole.com> writes:
>> On 2021-07-12 07:37, Wade Garrett wrote:
> [...]
>>> I'd like to use a password manager but I'm not comfortable with that
>>> data being on some server somewhere- allegedly encrypted or not.
>>
>> 256 bit AES encryption not good enough for you?
>
> The weak link is not the encryption algorithm, but the key used to
> decrypt the data.

There’s lots of possible weak links.

- The key may be stored insecurely.
- If the key is derived from a password then the user may choose a weak
password.
- It’s easy to make a bad choice of KDF.
- The choice of cipher mode matters.
- For some cipher modes, how you choose the parameters matters.
- Some ciphers (including AES) are prone to side channels.

How much each of these matters is situational, but “256 bit AES
encryption” is not a complete description and may indeed not be good
enough, depending on the missing details.

--
https://www.greenend.org.uk/rjk/

Lewis

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Jul 20, 2021, 4:13:11 PMJul 20
to
In message <8735s99...@LkoBDZeT.terraraq.uk> Richard Kettlewell <inv...@invalid.invalid> wrote:
> Keith Thompson <Keith.S.T...@gmail.com> writes:
>> Alan Browne <bitb...@blackhole.com> writes:
>>> On 2021-07-12 07:37, Wade Garrett wrote:
>> [...]
>>>> I'd like to use a password manager but I'm not comfortable with that
>>>> data being on some server somewhere- allegedly encrypted or not.
>>>
>>> 256 bit AES encryption not good enough for you?
>>
>> The weak link is not the encryption algorithm, but the key used to
>> decrypt the data.

> There’s lots of possible weak links.

> - The key may be stored insecurely.

The key is not stored at all. The key is the password that that the user
selects.

> - If the key is derived from a password then the user may choose a weak
> password.

Nothing anyone can do about that.

> - It’s easy to make a bad choice of KDF.
> - The choice of cipher mode matters.

Which is why these tools are audited by third parties and you should
only use tools that have been audited.

> - For some cipher modes, how you choose the parameters matters.

Ibid.

> - Some ciphers (including AES) are prone to side channels.

Ibid.

> How much each of these matters is situational, but “256 bit AES
> encryption” is not a complete description and may indeed not be good
> enough, depending on the missing details.

Ibid.


--
you cannot code around infinite implementations of OCD -John C Welch

Alan Browne

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Jul 20, 2021, 4:39:39 PMJul 20
to
On 2021-07-19 14:08, Keith Thompson wrote:
> Alan Browne <bitb...@blackhole.com> writes:
>> On 2021-07-12 07:37, Wade Garrett wrote:
> [...]
>>> I'd like to use a password manager but I'm not comfortable with that
>>> data being on some server somewhere- allegedly encrypted or not.
>>
>> 256 bit AES encryption not good enough for you?
>
> The weak link is not the encryption algorithm, but the key used to
> decrypt the data.

First off there is a difference between a "key" and a "password".

If the password is "a", the key will still be extremely strong at 256
bits and would look completely different to the key for password "b".
Of course that is not a recommendation.

As to passwords, it's trivial to make strong and easy to remember
passwords with a few misspelled words, mixed case, some symbols and digits.

Keith Thompson

unread,
Jul 20, 2021, 6:52:47 PMJul 20
to
Alan Browne <bitb...@blackhole.com> writes:
> On 2021-07-19 14:08, Keith Thompson wrote:
>> Alan Browne <bitb...@blackhole.com> writes:
>>> On 2021-07-12 07:37, Wade Garrett wrote:
>> [...]
>>>> I'd like to use a password manager but I'm not comfortable with that
>>>> data being on some server somewhere- allegedly encrypted or not.
>>>
>>> 256 bit AES encryption not good enough for you?
>> The weak link is not the encryption algorithm, but the key used to
>> decrypt the data.
>
> First off there is a difference between a "key" and a "password".

Sure (but sometimes they can be the same, right?).

> If the password is "a", the key will still be extremely strong at 256
> bits and would look completely different to the key for password "b".
> Of course that is not a recommendation.

Are you talking about a key being algorithmically derived from the
password? If the string "a" is all the information you need to unlock
an encrypted file, then an attacker is going to be able to unlock it,
whether it first has to be translated to a 256-bit key or not. (Or I'm
missing something.)

> As to passwords, it's trivial to make strong and easy to remember
> passwords with a few misspelled words, mixed case, some symbols and
> digits.

Sure. It's also easy for a password to leak in any of a number of ways.

Dreamer In Colore

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Jul 21, 2021, 1:29:06 PMJul 21
to
On Mon, 12 Jul 2021 09:53:00 +0000, Unbreakable Disease
<unbre...@secmail.pro> wrote:

>My 50-year old brain isn't capable of memorizing that many passwords
>anymore, so I use KeePassXC. I keep basically everything here including
>my financial passwords and credit card data, with the exception of
>passwords that I would have to remember anyway (full-disk encryption,
>login, primary e-mail passwords, etc.)
>
>Overall, it's much easier to remember and much harder to forget 10
>complicated passwords that you use everyday than 100+ simple passwords
>you use every month or even less.
>
>I can't speak about Windows version of KeePass, because with the
>exception of playing games not available on Macintosh, I haven't used
>one since Windows 95 days.

For what it's worth, I like LastPass. I'm not crazy about the fact
that I can't use it on multiple devices without having to pay for it,
but I can't begrudge the software developers over there the right to
earn a living.

The best strengths in current password technology are in passphrases:

https://useapassphrase.com

There's some great stats in there, such as the amount of time it takes
to crack common spatial word passwords such as "qwerty" or "aaaaaa"...
10 milliseconds.

Or how long it takes to crack a password that's a date like
"03261981"... 2.213 seconds.

However, if you use a sequence of four randomly chosen words like
"mergers decade labeled manager", it'll take 6 million centuries to
crack.

So.

I've converted all my passwords to sequences of four to six words; and
I have an email account at a provider that I've never used to send
email to anyone, or to use as the id for any website. There, I have a
draft of an email saved that holds the information.

I now only need to remember one password, and I can get to everything.
As for the remote chance that the email provider will cease to exist,
I made backup accounts with other major providers, because paranoia.

I don't use email apps to access my password storage account; and I
use Tor to get to it for the sake of anonymity. I'd be fairly
impressed if someone got through that level of security, and it's
probably overkill, but why take the risk?

While I'm at it... does everyone know about

https://haveibeenpwned.com

You can put your email address in there, and see if it's been involved
in any large-scale thefts. It's got records going back years, and I
was fairly shocked to see that my wife's account had been hacked years
ago.

--
Cheers,
Dreamer
AA 2306

"The fact that a believer is happier than a skeptic is no
more to the point than the fact that a drunken man is
happier than a sober one. The happiness of credulity is a
cheap and dangerous quality of happiness, and by no means
a necessity of life."

George Bernard Shaw
Androcles and the Lion

Keith Thompson

unread,
Jul 21, 2021, 3:31:18 PMJul 21
to
I use a couple of programs I wrote to generate random passwords and
passphrases:

https://github.com/Keith-S-Thompson/random-passwords

It's two Perl scripts. gen-password generates random passwords with
specified criteria, and gen-passphrase generates xkcd-style random word
sequences using the system dictionary or a specified one.

Bob Eager

unread,
Jul 21, 2021, 5:00:33 PMJul 21
to
On Wed, 21 Jul 2021 12:31:11 -0700, Keith Thompson wrote:

> I use a couple of programs I wrote to generate random passwords and
> passphrases:
>
> https://github.com/Keith-S-Thompson/random-passwords
>
> It's two Perl scripts. gen-password generates random passwords with
> specified criteria, and gen-passphrase generates xkcd-style random word
> sequences using the system dictionary or a specified one.

I use dicewords and a set of casino dice.

Ben Bacarisse

unread,
Jul 21, 2021, 8:23:55 PMJul 21
to
Bob Eager <news...@eager.cx> writes:

> On Wed, 21 Jul 2021 12:31:11 -0700, Keith Thompson wrote:
>
>> I use a couple of programs I wrote to generate random passwords and
>> passphrases:
>>
>> https://github.com/Keith-S-Thompson/random-passwords
>>
>> It's two Perl scripts. gen-password generates random passwords with
>> specified criteria, and gen-passphrase generates xkcd-style random word
>> sequences using the system dictionary or a specified one.
>
> I use dicewords and a set of casino dice.

What do you do when the password is restricted as is so often the case?

--
Ben.

Bob Eager

unread,
Jul 22, 2021, 4:46:20 AMJul 22
to
It provides a basis to which I add stuff.

Jitsi does similar when choosing a random 'room' name, although I haven't
looked at the code.

Unbreakable Disease

unread,
Jul 22, 2021, 4:52:28 AMJul 22
to
On 19.07.2021 14:40, Alan Browne wrote:
> On 2021-07-12 05:53, Unbreakable Disease wrote:
>> My 50-year old brain isn't capable of memorizing that many passwords
>> anymore, so I use KeePassXC. I keep basically everything here
>> including my financial passwords and credit card data, with the
>> exception of passwords that I would have to remember anyway (full-disk
>> encryption, login, primary e-mail passwords, etc.)
>>
>> Overall, it's much easier to remember and much harder to forget 10
>> complicated passwords that you use everyday than 100+ simple passwords
>> you use every month or even less.
>>
>> I can't speak about Windows version of KeePass, because with the
>> exception of playing games not available on Macintosh, I haven't used
>> one since Windows 95 days.
>
> I use 1Password.  Be careful of the option you select.  They are leaning
> towards "rent" model which I despise.
>
> You can keep the encrypted master file on iCloud or Dropbox so it's
> available to all of your devices.  Avoid the 'rent' model if possible.
>
You can use any FOSS password manager. For me, anything that is not FOSS
is automatically suspicious (including 1Password). I don't trust
proprietary software and try to reduce its usage to minimum.

Alan Browne

unread,
Jul 22, 2021, 9:52:53 AMJul 22
to
1Password has proven itself over time. I like companies that pay
employees to do things right when it's a critical component.

Free? You get what you pay for. So unless it's a wildly widespread and
popular package with many people maintaining it, it tends to crud.

The Gimp refers.

Unbreakable Disease

unread,
Jul 27, 2021, 7:27:33 AMJul 27
to
On 22.07.2021 13:52, Alan Browne wrote:
> On 2021-07-22 04:52, Unbreakable Disease wrote:
>> On 19.07.2021 14:40, Alan Browne wrote:
>
>>> You can keep the encrypted master file on iCloud or Dropbox so it's
>>> available to all of your devices.  Avoid the 'rent' model if possible.
>>>
>> You can use any FOSS password manager. For me, anything that is not
>> FOSS is automatically suspicious (including 1Password). I don't trust
>> proprietary software and try to reduce its usage to minimum.
>
> 1Password has proven itself over time.  I like companies that pay
> employees to do things right when it's a critical component.
>
> Free?  You get what you pay for.  So unless it's a wildly widespread and
> popular package with many people maintaining it, it tends to crud.
>
> The Gimp refers.
>
>
Well, I like free software. It's not always of the same quality as
commercial software, but at least its security can be tested by many
experts in the industry easily as anyone has access to the source code.
Anyone can read and edit it... understanding and making it work not so much.

--
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bitcoin:bc1qtwmjzywve5v7z6jzk4dkg7v6masw2erpahsn9f

Secmail.pro is down, please mail me at current address instead

rtr

unread,
Nov 27, 2021, 5:51:48 PM (9 days ago) Nov 27
to
On Mon, 12 Jul 2021 09:53:00 +0000
Unbreakable Disease <unbre...@secmail.pro> wrote:

> My 50-year old brain isn't capable of memorizing that many passwords
> anymore, so I use KeePassXC. I keep basically everything here
> including my financial passwords and credit card data, with the
> exception of passwords that I would have to remember anyway
> (full-disk encryption, login, primary e-mail passwords, etc.)
>
> Overall, it's much easier to remember and much harder to forget 10
> complicated passwords that you use everyday than 100+ simple
> passwords you use every month or even less.
>
> I can't speak about Windows version of KeePass, because with the
> exception of playing games not available on Macintosh, I haven't used
> one since Windows 95 days.

I use Pass, which is a command-line only password manager using git and
gpg. It's good and lightweight.

Bob Eager

unread,
Nov 27, 2021, 6:40:31 PM (9 days ago) Nov 27