Destiny ( Unix SVR4.2 ) launch
Paul van der Zwan
it on the net. Does anybody have more info about the launch and the
product ????
Raymond Shwake
Actually, yes. Just came back from today's presentation held in the DC
area. I'm also working on a beta release (but not at the moment).
The so-called Destiny Desktop (also known as System V r4.2 ES) is a
highly modular implementation of SVR4 designed to run across a range
of platforms, from 386 laptops to high-end minis and servers. The
Foundation Set provides a graphic interface (X11r5 supporting *both*
Motif and Open Look) and a two-user license. To that, one can add
software development, networking, management, security, multiuser
extensions, etc.
One can clearly view this as an alternative to SCO UNIX or Solaris,
but it's also targeted as an alternative to Microsoft's NT offerings.
Expect it to appear commercially within the next few months, to cost
less than either SCO or Solaris, and to run on smaller platforms.
--
uunet!ub-gate!ka3ovk!raysnec!shwake shwake@rsxtech
Peter da Silva
> The so-called Destiny Desktop (also known as System V r4.2 ES) is a
So... "how big is it"? Can you run applications under X in 4MB on a 386SX/SL*
with a 40MB disk (typical mid-range laptop) or do you need a battery eating
DX and 8 or MB of RAM and a 100 MB drive?
--
Peter da Silva `-_-'
$ EDIT/TECO LOVE 'U`
%TECO-W-OLDJOKE Not war? Have you hugged your wolf today?
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ryerson.schwark
>So... "how big is it"? Can you run applications under X in 4MB on a 386SX/SL*
>with a 40MB disk (typical mid-range laptop) or do you need a battery eating
>DX and 8 or MB of RAM and a 100 MB drive?
4MB and a 60MB disk. We demoed it extensively on a 386sx-20 where it runs
fine.
Ry Schwark
r...@usl.com
Brandon S. Allbery KF8NH
+---------------
| In article <1...@nearside.UUCP> shw...@nearside.UUCP (Raymond Shwake) writes:
| > The so-called Destiny Desktop (also known as System V r4.2 ES) is a
| > highly modular implementation of SVR4 [...]
|
| So... "how big is it"? Can you run applications under X in 4MB on a 386SX/SL*
| with a 40MB disk (typical mid-range laptop) or do you need a battery eating
| DX and 8 or MB of RAM and a 100 MB drive?
Not even USL can cure X bloat.
++Brandon
--
Brandon S. Allbery, KF8NH [44.70.4.88]: all...@NCoast.ORG, b...@telotech.com
Senior Programmer, Telotech, Inc. (if I may call myself that...)
Neil Corlett
and what are the distibution channels going to be? ie how can we get hold of
the beast in the UK, for example.
Thanks
Neil
--
Martin Tomes
Janet: mt...@uk.co.eurotherm | Eurotherm Limited, Faraday Close,
Internet: mt...@eurotherm.co.uk | Durrington, Worthing, W.Sussex, England.
Rick Kelly
If you were running X, I bet it was kind of cramped on that 60 mb drive,
and I bet you were doing a lot of paging with 4 mb ram.
--
Rick Kelly r...@rmkhome.UUCP unixland!rmkhome!rmk r...@frog.UUCP
ryerson.schwark
>What are the advantages of SVR4.2 over Solaris 2.0 (other than possible price)
>and what are the distibution channels going to be? ie how can we get hold of
>the beast in the UK, for example.
SVR4.2 is going to be distributed by many of our customers, including
Univel which will be working with Novell's distribution channels.
Gillian Mogg Smith of our London office probably has a better idea on
what the specifics are of the UK, she's gi...@uel.co.uk
SVR4.2 will play well in the low-end client-server world, and as a
server on local area networks. We've designed it to scale well, so
you can start from the minimal base and add packages until you have
a fully loaded system. If you drop an email message to Gillian, she
can send you some more information.
Ry Schwark
r...@usl.com
Steve Nuchia
>Not even USL can cure X bloat.
Fighting fire with fire, huh?
--
Steve Nuchia South Coast Computing Services, Inc. (713) 661-3301
Robert E. Laughlin
Does any one know what the cost of upgrading SCO 3.2 v 2 to Destiny is? I would
also like to know, approximately, when and up grade will be availble and who
to contact.
bel
--
Robert E. Laughlin Naval Ocean Systems Center (NOSC)
email b...@nosc.mil
Neil Corlett
>Martin Tomes
>Janet: mt...@uk.co.eurotherm | Eurotherm Limited, Faraday Close,
>Internet: mt...@eurotherm.co.uk | Durrington, Worthing, W.Sussex, England.
Oops, the wrong signature (above) got into my last posting on this thread.
Comes of using a different machine to post from! A more correct one will
follow this!
Neil
--
Janet: nc...@uk.co.eurotherm | Eurotherm Limited, Faraday Close,
Internet: nc...@eurotherm.co.uk | Durrington, Worthing, W.Sussex, England.
UUCP: {ukc,uunet}!etherm!nc00 | Phone: +44 903 68500 Fax: +44 903 65982
Peter da Silva
> >So... "how big is it"?
> 4MB and a 60MB disk.
Impressive. How much does it take to bring it up multiuser sans X?
Steven P. Mazurek
>4MB and a 60MB disk. We demoed it extensively on a 386sx-20 where it runs
>fine.
>Ry Schwark
>r...@usl.com
Could Destiny be used for a two user environment with a X-terminal
without a lot of "phutzing" ?
--
Steven P. Mazurek | Email : {...,uunet,bcr,ohumc}!ameris!smazu
Ameritech Services | sm...@ameris.center.il.ameritech.com
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ryerson.schwark
>> >So... "how big is it"?
>
>> 4MB and a 60MB disk.
>
>Impressive. How much does it take to bring it up multiuser sans X?
Well, I went back and asked a couple of our engineers and was basically
told. It will run with all the graphics in 4MB, but not well, you probably
want 6-8. If you aren't running graphics, 4MB should be fine for a
normal system says they.
We've worked hard on the graphics, but as others have mention, well, its
still X. About half a meg ram for the server, a meg from the libraries,
and a couple of hundred K per client.
Ry Schwark
r...@usl.com
Raymond Shwake
>In article <1...@nearside.UUCP> shw...@nearside.UUCP (Raymond Shwake) writes:
>> The so-called Destiny Desktop (also known as System V r4.2 ES) is a
>> highly modular implementation of SVR4 [...]
>So... "how big is it"? Can you run applications under X in 4MB on a 386SX/SL*
>with a 40MB disk (typical mid-range laptop) or do you need a battery eating
>DX and 8 or MB of RAM and a 100 MB drive?
I can only speak of our own test platform: a NEC 386/25, 8 MB RAM, 80 MB hard
disk. USL is now specifying a minimum platform of 4-6 MB, but that assumes a
bit more optimization for the commercial release. At last weeks DC intro,
they were using a Gateway 386/33, 8 MB RAM, 120 MB disk, but they were also
supporting multimedia (a VCR playing a slick graphic movie through a desktop
window). Right now I'm running the Desktop (Open Look over X11r5 server; OL
strikes me as more aesthetically pleasing than the Motif desktop, also
provided), Xclock, Xterm, a second Xterm running cu to this platform) plus
my System_Setup window. Yes, I'm working off some of my swap memory, but
there's no thrashing as I move between windows.
They're specifying a minimum 60 MB hard disk, which is still tight. Loading
the full Foundation Set on our 80 MB system left about 25 MB free. We've
added most of the Admin set plus a few other packages and have roughly 15 MB
still free. Believe it or not, I still have room for the base development
set, though it's not currently installed.
Performance would be better yet if I weren't tied to this old MFM drive, but
I wanted to see how "low" I could go.
--
Question: If the brain's a computer, what's the operating system?
uunet!ub-gate!ka3ovk!raysnec!shwake shwake@rsxtech
Andrew Josey
An overview of SVR4.2 including supported hardware is available from
our infoserver. Email tc-...@uel.co.uk with the subject line: svr4.2
Hope that helps.
---
Andrew Josey, postm...@uel.co.uk
Rick Kelly
>In article <1992Jun30.1...@cbnewsl.cb.att.com> r...@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (ryerson.schwark) writes:
>> In article <id.BE...@ferranti.com> pe...@ferranti.com (Peter da Silva) writes:
>> >So... "how big is it"?
>
>> 4MB and a 60MB disk.
>
>Impressive. How much does it take to bring it up multiuser sans X?
This 4 and 60 crap is the same line that all the SVR4 vendors have been
using.
Evan Leibovitch
r...@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (ryerson.schwark) writes:
>SVR4.2 is going to be distributed by many of our customers,
Good, I thought Univel was going to be the only reseller.
>including Univel which will be working with Novell's distribution channels.
This may be a bug rather than a feature:
1) Many of the distributors who carry Novell (eg, Merisel, Ingram, Tech
Data) also sell SCO. As I heard, SCO's distribution agreements are
usually exclusives, meaning that the distributor can't carry a
competing UNIX. This could cause some royal fun when the "Novell
distribution channels" have to decide whether to go Univel or SCO,
or whether SCO will relax its insistence on exclusivity.
If SCO sticks to its guns and the distributors won't pick up Univel,
than the idea of "Novell's distribution channels" is a washout.
2) Novell sees UNIX as just another platform for Netware. While the
availability of Netware may be an advantage to some, I wouldn't want
to pay extra (in money or software bloat) for it being standard equipment.
3) Will "Novell's distribution channels" require the same cantankerous
levels of certification as they presently do for Netware? Novell's
requirements for what it calls "Platinum" vendors make SCO's ODT
qualifications look like a cakewalk. At least SCO only wants your
cash and time. I think Novell wants blood.
I was told by Novell that it's standard dealers aren't allowed to
sell such "specialized" products as NFS-for-Netware -- that's only
for the advanced guys. There's only so much of this crap I (and many
UNIX dealers and users I know) would tolerate.
4) New UNIX, or UNIX Lite, or 4.2, or Destiny, or whatever it's
called, is still a very different beast from DOS. Merely making the
product available to hundreds of new dealers who don't have a clue
about it, may hurt rather than help in the long run. If the answer
to this is training the new dealers, who's going to pay for that? The
dealers? HAH!
>SVR4.2 will play well in the low-end client-server world, and as a
>server on local area networks.
It's also going to have to be able to cope well on peer-to-peer networks
(ie, Lantastic) if it really wants to break into that world.
--
Evan Leibovitch, Sound Software Ltd., located in beautiful Brampton, Ontario
ev...@telly.on.ca / uunet!utzoo!telly!evan / (416) 452-0504
Said Captain Jean-Luc Picard to the tailor at his machine: "Make it sew!"
Bill Campbell
:In article <id.ZD...@ferranti.com> pe...@ferranti.com (Peter da Silva) writes:
:>In article <1992Jun30.1...@cbnewsl.cb.att.com> r...@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (ryerson.schwark) writes:
:>> In article <id.BE...@ferranti.com> pe...@ferranti.com (Peter da Silva) writes:
:>> >So... "how big is it"?
:>
:>> 4MB and a 60MB disk.
:>
:>Impressive. How much does it take to bring it up multiuser sans X?
:This 4 and 60 crap is the same line that all the SVR4 vendors have been
:using.
Lots of things are possible -- even intercourse in a hammock standing up.
Bill
--
INTERNET: bi...@Celestial.COM Bill Campbell; Celestial Software
UUCP: ...!thebes!camco!bill 6641 East Mercer Way
uunet!camco!bill Mercer Island, WA 98040; (206) 947-5591
SPEED COSTS MONEY -- HOW FAST DO YOU WANT TO GO?
ryerson.schwark
>In article <1992Jul1.1...@cbnewsl.cb.att.com>
> r...@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (ryerson.schwark) writes:
>
>>SVR4.2 is going to be distributed by many of our customers,
>Good, I thought Univel was going to be the only reseller.
By no means.
>4) New UNIX, or UNIX Lite, or 4.2, or Destiny, or whatever it's
> called, is still a very different beast from DOS. Merely making the
> product available to hundreds of new dealers who don't have a clue
> about it, may hurt rather than help in the long run. If the answer
> to this is training the new dealers, who's going to pay for that? The
> dealers? HAH!
Univel is well aware of the challenges of training people to use/sell
SVR4.2, and you're right, SVR4.2 is a very different beast from DOS.
I can't speak for Univel, though I can say they're working on this.
Ry Schwark
r...@usl.com
ryerson.schwark
>Could Destiny be used for a two user environment with a X-terminal
>without a lot of "phutzing" ?
I asked someone in here who was doing exactly that, and they said it was
simple, they just installed the x terminal over ethernet, it came up
asked them if wanted to boot the remote desktop, you say yes, and that's
it. Mileage may vary, but the answer is yes.
Ry Schwark
r...@usl.com
Neil Corlett
OK, here's the nasty one. If I am using an x-terminal, will ATM work?
Lets see two cases, an x-terminal with X11r4, and an x-terminal with
X11r5 that supports font servers.
I have no idea how ATM is implemented, but I have built stock X11r5
servers and font servers with the contributed Type 1 font support. If
ATM is a font server, fine, if it is built into the x-server only,
no-so-fine. If it is a font server _and_ a run time process that notices when
things need rescaling, great :-), it'll work with x11r5 x-terminals.
edward.benyukhis
Can someony on the net, please, enlighten me on the "Destiny"
product i.e. cost, availability, functionality.
Thank you,
Ed
ryerson.schwark
> OK, here's the nasty one. If I am using an x-terminal, will ATM work?
> Lets see two cases, an x-terminal with X11r4, and an x-terminal with
> X11r5 that supports font servers.
No, ATM will work only on the console display running the X server that
is part of SVR4.2. It will not work on X terminals.
> I have no idea how ATM is implemented, but I have built stock X11r5
> servers and font servers with the contributed Type 1 font support. If
> ATM is a font server, fine, if it is built into the x-server only,
> no-so-fine.
It is hooked into the X server through the SVR4 dynamic shared library
mechanism. The Font Server of X11R5 is not part of SVR4.2 Version 1;
it will most likely be in the the first updated version of SVR4.2,
however, allowing ATM-rendered fonts to be used on X terminals.
> If it is a font server _and_ a run time process that notices when
> things need rescaling, great :-), it'll work with x11r5 x-terminals.
I'm not sure what you mean by a "run time process that notices that
things need rescaling". If you can clarify, I will answer.
(note this is from a key ATM engineer here, I can forward more questions
to him if you have them.)
Ry Schwark
r...@usl.com