UNIX - Who, What, Where?
StressedOut
RHL machine. I see many suggestions that I should obtain Linux (or another
variant) because it's free, it's easy, etc., etc., etc. I just came across
another article saying, "Linux is great because its free and it uses similar
command and directory structures as other flavors ...". Similar to what,
exactly?
I am wondering what the heck "UNIX" is. I mean _real_, unadulterated,
up-to-date, commercial grade, UNIX - THE Operating System.
Is there any advantage to using UNIX vs Linux?
How much is it on average, and how and where might one "get" it?
What machines will it run on?
Can I get an x86 version?
Thanks.
Alexander Viro
StressedOut <jsp...@juno.com> wrote:
>I have been reading about UNIX and Linux recently and have set up a practice
>RHL machine. I see many suggestions that I should obtain Linux (or another
>variant) because it's free, it's easy, etc., etc., etc. I just came across
>another article saying, "Linux is great because its free and it uses similar
>command and directory structures as other flavors ...". Similar to what,
>exactly?
>I am wondering what the heck "UNIX" is. I mean _real_, unadulterated,
>up-to-date, commercial grade, UNIX - THE Operating System.
count stepchildren a-la Linux). As for most, erm, successful commercial
ones now - well, Solaris, HP/UX, SGI, DG/UX, SCO. Plus there are other free
Unices ({Free,Open,Net}BSD). Plus there is a monster called AIX (IBM ;-<).
Plus many, many other.
>Is there any advantage to using UNIX vs Linux?
WHICH UNIX? Linux is one of them. Name your tasks, name the kind of
UNIX you are going to use - then we may be able to compare.
>How much is it on average, and how and where might one "get" it?
>
>What machines will it run on?
Probably anything not too braindead.
>Can I get an x86 version?
Of what? For *BSD - visit their webpages (www.freebsd.org, etc.)
For SCO and x86 Solaris - SCO and Sun. Look in news.answers for UNIX FAQ
- it should contain what you need.
--
There are no "civil aviation for dummies" books out there and most of
you would probably be scared and spend a lot of your time looking up
if there was one. :-) Jordan Hubbard in c.u.b.f.m
Gary Momarison
> I have been reading about UNIX and Linux recently and have set up a practice
> RHL machine. I see many suggestions that I should obtain Linux (or another
> variant) because it's free, it's easy, etc., etc., etc. I just came across
> another article saying, "Linux is great because its free and it uses similar
> command and directory structures as other flavors ...". Similar to what,
> exactly?
>
> I am wondering what the heck "UNIX" is. I mean _real_, unadulterated,
> up-to-date, commercial grade, UNIX - THE Operating System.
A company owns "UNIX", but AFAIK only sells specifications and licences
to use the UNIX brand. Two OSes can be very different and still meet
the spec.
>
> Is there any advantage to using UNIX vs Linux?
UNIX, in practice, comes well integrated with HW & SW systems which
tend to have their bugs and weak-points worked out better. More
"polished" some have said. But Linux has advantages too.
>
> How much is it on average, and how and where might one "get" it?
Don't know. Sorta comes with expensive HW. HP, SGI, Sun, others?
> What machines will it run on?
HP, SGI, Sun, others?
>
> Can I get an x86 version?
Not that I'm aware.
More info: http://www.aa.net/~swear/pedia/unix-like.html
--
Look for Linux info at http://www.dejanews.com/home_ps.shtml and in
Gary's Encyclopedia at http://www.aa.net/~swear/pedia/index.html
Ted Staberow
You may be unclear on Unix but you don't seem to have a problem with
cross-posting! In the future you may want to curb that a bit; it is rather bad
form. Your questions were.......
> I have been reading about UNIX and Linux recently and have set up a practice
> RHL machine. I see many suggestions that I should obtain Linux (or another
> variant) because it's free, it's easy, etc., etc., etc. I just came across
> another article saying, "Linux is great because its free and it uses similar
> command and directory structures as other flavors ...". Similar to what,
> exactly?
The only thing that can be called Linux is the kernel and its module's. The
rest of the OS is based on sources that may well be used in commercial Unix.
Unix was developed by Bell Labs in the 1970s to be used as a general purpose
operating system. I guess it was used to run large telephony switches and R&D
systems initially. AT&T could not market Unix by law because of their monopoly
status so they gave it away to universities (mostly as a tax write off) for
further development. That is how BSD came to be. U.C. Berkeley created a
variant of Unix based on some early source code. Current BSD products (Like
FreeBSD) are no longer based on any original AT&T code. All current Unix
variants are very similar though not identical. Because of these
similarities, good Unix administrators can learn to administer unfamiliar
systems fairly quickly. Linux is similar enough to Unix to be considered a
Unix (in manner of use) but does not carry any legal markings to that effect.
>
> I am wondering what the heck "UNIX" is. I mean _real_, unadulterated,
> up-to-date, commercial grade, UNIX - THE Operating System.
>
There is no 'The Unix OS' . Officially, Unix is a trademark used by a family
of OSs from different vendors that contain varying degrees of AT&T source
code. The cost of licensing this name and source code is rather high and
vendors usually bundle the OS with pricey hardware. These bundles are
typically very robust and stable.
> Is there any advantage to using UNIX vs Linux?
>
This depends entirely on the application. I can't see spending $50,000 on a
Sparc Station just to do word processing and web browsing. Likewise I can't
see trying to setup a Linux box to handle 2000 local and dial up users who need
to access an enterprise wide database. This will be possible some day, but not
just yet.
>
> How much is it on average, and how and where might one "get" it?
Generally speaking you can't just buy Unix. Vendors tend to sell complete
systems.
> What machines will it run on?
Unix and it's clones have been ported to run on systems from Apples to Dec
Vaxes. There is even a Linux port that runs on the 8086.
>
> Can I get an x86 version?
Of Unix? Yes, Sun and SCO are two that come to mind. Once Intel's Merced
chip is released Unix will run on the same systems that Windows runs on. Bill
is not looking forward to that :-)
>
Ted Staberow
Prairie Networking, Inc.
Hans van Zijst
> I have been reading about UNIX and Linux recently and have set up a practice
> RHL machine. I see many suggestions that I should obtain Linux (or another
> variant) because it's free, it's easy, etc., etc., etc. I just came across
> another article saying, "Linux is great because its free and it uses similar
> command and directory structures as other flavors ...". Similar to what,
> exactly?
Well, there are quite some flavors around. HP-UX, Irix, Xenix, Solaris,
SunOS, BSD and so forth. The similarity is like the one in the different
DOSses (M$-DOS, PC-DOS, DR-DOS and so) and BASICs: some difference, but
globally the same idea.
> I am wondering what the heck "UNIX" is. I mean _real_, unadulterated,
> up-to-date, commercial grade, UNIX - THE Operating System.
See above. There is no such thing as "The UNIX" (some will probably want
to flame me about this), UNIX is more a huge collection of similar
operating systems. The most "pure" UNIX is probably BSD, for as far as I
know, Berkely Software Distribution was the first one.
> Is there any advantage to using UNIX vs Linux?
Linux is just one of the UNICes, but it happens to be a free one where the
other ones tend to cost a fortune. FreeBSD is also free, BTW. But there
are more advantages: Linux is ver popular and growing more popular every
day, so there are more and more companies making software for it. Not to
mention the awful lot of hobbyists who produce all kinds of programs and
patches. Don't think you'll have a bug in your kernel fixed in a few days
when you use a commercial UNIX.
> How much is it on average, and how and where might one "get" it?
On average? If you have to pay for your Internet connection, it can become
rather expensive to download it all by yourself. I'd advise to get
yourself a decent CD-ROM. Check www.redhat.com for one of the most popular
distributions. Another option would be to buy the Developers Resource
Toolkit, a set of 6 CD's with several distributions on it and some extra
software (saves the searching and downloading). You can find this on
www.infomagic.com (most decent bookstores sell it too, though).
> What machines will it run on?
Hmm, on what machines doesn't it run...? :)
> Can I get an x86 version?
Sure. The x86 version is -for obvious reasons- the most popular one. If
I'm not mistaken, Red Hat ships with an Alpha release as well. Versions
for other platforms can also be downloaded, but since I've never looked
for it, I don't know where. Probably on the CD's I mentioned earlier BTW.
> Thanks.
You're welcome.
--
Hans "Woefdram" van Zijst
woef...@svi.ptf.hro.nl
ICQ#: 14212495
brian moore
Ted Staberow <tst...@ibm.net> wrote:
>
> The only thing that can be called Linux is the kernel and its module's. The
> rest of the OS is based on sources that may well be used in commercial Unix.
> Unix was developed by Bell Labs in the 1970s to be used as a general purpose
> operating system. I guess it was used to run large telephony switches and R&D
> systems initially.
Actually, as I recall, the major use of Unix in the early days was for
things like word processing. (Yep, using 'ed' and 'roff'.) AT&T was
using it to write patent applications. As it commercialized with the
breakup of AT&T, it started getting used to run expensive
phototypesetters in the 'real world' (though vi and nroff/troff
existed by that point).
Most book publishers use Unix extensively in the production of final
proofs. (ORA even notes it, with many of their books being written in
nroff format by the author.)
> > Is there any advantage to using UNIX vs Linux?
> >
>
> This depends entirely on the application. I can't see spending $50,000 on a
> Sparc Station just to do word processing and web browsing. Likewise I can't
> see trying to setup a Linux box to handle 2000 local and dial up users who need
> to access an enterprise wide database. This will be possible some day, but not
> just yet.
(Although in that case, my major concern wouldn't be Linux, but would be
the abuse that Sun machines take so well, while PC hardware chokes.)
> > Can I get an x86 version?
>
> Of Unix? Yes, Sun and SCO are two that come to mind. Once Intel's Merced
> chip is released Unix will run on the same systems that Windows runs on. Bill
> is not looking forward to that :-)
Well, Unix does run on the same systems now (and I doubt Merced will
kill things like Alpha and SPARC). What'll kill Bill is when he loses
compatiblity with the Windows installed base. Notice the flops of
various NT ports to non-Intel hardware.... Mainly caused by the lack of
existing applications compiled for the CPU.
Linux is not likely to have that problem, since proper programs will
just need to be recompiled and source is readily available to virtually
all of them. Add in that some of the porting problems have already been
worked out (due to making applications written on Linux run on other
CPU's under other flavors of *nix) and it should be a breeze.
--
Brian Moore | "The Zen nature of a spammer resembles
Sysadmin, C/Perl Hacker | a cockroach, except that the cockroach
Usenet Vandal | is higher up on the evolutionary chain."
Netscum, Bane of Elves. Peter Olson, Delphi Postmaster
Gregory J Smith
StressedOut wrote:
> Similar to what,exactly? the basic Unix command line and utilities
command line -- csh, ksh, sh
utilities -- awk, grep, sed, vi, emacs and so many too numerous to list
GUI -- X11
>
>
> I am wondering what the heck "UNIX" is. I mean _real_, unadulterated,
> up-to-date, commercial grade, UNIX - THE Operating System.
UNIX "all" caps was originally an AT&T developed OS, sold to USL , then SCO????
or was it Novell??? runs on AT&T proprietary hardware (68xxx --right?)
then there is the variants
AIX--IBM, IRIX--SGI, OSF and ?? DEC, Solaris-- SUN, HP-UX -- HP NCR -- MP-RAS
and lots of others, these are licensed Unix's with vendor added stuff
>
>
> Is there any advantage to using UNIX vs Linux? Yes and no advantage is ports
> of expensive software CAD, Databases(not so true anymore) and vendor supplied
> support for their hardware and software (this is in the advantage/disadvantage
> column COST's money.
>
> How much is it on average, and how and where might one "get" it? single user
> licenses for SUN and IRIX I believe are over $6000 U.S. dollars (I could be
> wrong however I worked at a smaller proprietary/Unix vendor and our RTU
> (Real-Time UNIX oxymoron) cost more than that. Where to get it --- www.sun.com
>
> What machines will it run on? mostly proprietary hardware SUN, IBM, SGI and HP
> all have proprietary hardware systems. (SUN does have an x86 port but it is
> not supported as well)
>
> Can I get an x86 version? SUN and NCR yes
>
> Thanks.