AIX vs. Linux
Mike Hastings
subject, but most of those are over at least a year old. A lot of
things have changed since then, and my company has some major
decisions to make. So I come to the experts.
Basically, we're looking into replacing about 12 RS/6000's running AIX
(not all in one facility) with Linux on an x86 architecture. I have
quite a bit of experience with Linux (various distros), but I'm just
not sure if Linux is quite mature enough to employ in this situation.
We store quite a bit of (mission critical) data on these RS6K's, and
run a good size software package (which we've been told will run on
Linux).
It seems to me like Linux is good for web, mail, ftp servers, etc. but
it seems like AIX is better for handling large amounts of data. Is
this true? Why/why not? Can anyone think of big issues which AIX
handles better than Linux...if Linux handles them at all? I know I'll
sure miss SMIT.
The main reason we're looking into this is because of IBM's new
policies of requiring you to purchase both software maintenance and an
update subscription with purchase of a new RS6K.
Thoughts?
Thanks in advance,
Mike
ashe...@inlandkwpp.com
your boxes with AIX.
If you run linux and all of a sudden you are stricken with a kernel
panic on your console. Where do you turn to? This is probably would
be my main concern on moving mission critical data onto linux. Make
sure you purchase good support and a good disk array hardware. What
about installing linux on your RS6000's? Does IBM liscense that the
same way? Could save you some money?
-Adam
On 25 Apr 2003 12:40:22 -0700, mikeh...@hotmail.com (Mike Hastings)
wrote:
Bob Mariotti
wrote:
>Hi, I have read the majority of past threads which discuss this
We been developing, selling and supporting AIX on RS6K's since 1991.
Virtually all our apps are written to run on AIX. But, IBM is now
offering Linux as the OS on some of their boxes in lieu of AIX. Kind
of sends a signal.
I have four production AIX 5.1 RS6K boxes in my shop now. I've also
just installed a couple of AMD XP 2400+ boxes with RH 8.0
professional. My plan is to bring everything over to Linux, app by
app, and make them run. When I'm satisfied with their interaction the
Linux box will display the AIX boxes one by one. Then I will retire
all the AIX boxes.
I find that the Linux boxes on AMD's are as reliable as the RS6K's.
And, believe it or not, they outperform the AIX boxes and they are
very very inexpensive.
So this was my $0.02 for Linux as a replacement.
Bob
Mike Hastings
> What about installing linux on your RS6000's? Does IBM liscense that the
> same way? Could save you some money?
Well, I'm about knee deep in my research into all this right now...I
haven't checked IBM's licensing requirements regarding Linux, but I
*have* read a bit on their pSeries and iSeries which you can pre-order
with Linux on them. But I'm thinking if we go Linux, we'd probably go
with the x86 architecture, simply because they just go together - just
like RS6K and AIX.
I've also been researching SuSE's special distro which was developed
specifically for RS6K....but again, back to the x86 thing. I just
think Linux might still lack the device support that AIX has
(printers, etc.). That's also a big concern.
Thanks,
Mike
Bob Mariotti
wrote:
>ashe...@inlandkwpp.com wrote in message news:<qi4javk4e4ioduf8b...@4ax.com>...
Mike;
That depends on what kind of devices you're thinking of. We run
printers in two ways. 1) some printers are attached to PC's running
windows defined as "shared" printers and we print using "smbclient" on
the server which sends the print stream to the printer to print.
We also use Digi Board PortServer TS devices which are ethernet
connected serial port devices. The remote serial port looks and works
just as though it was a native serial port on the server. We use them
for both AIX and Linux (digi provides the drivers - not IBM).
What we have found in all our years doing this is that IBM will
readily DROP a device from supported drivers but the manufacturer (in
this case Digi) will keep them going and make updates available. IBM
has burned us TOO many times this way.
There certainly are sutle differences between the two OS's but they're
deminishing rapidly.
Also, we tried running Linux on several of our PPC RS6K's and the
performance couldn't match that of the same OS on the x86 (AMD) boxes
similarly configured.
Also, group benchmark testing (the Hartford Perl Mongers) ran several
types of perl / mysql programs on varying types of platforms. Here's
how they stacked up in the order of performance (slowest to fastest):
RS6K 43P-140 Linux 7.3
RS6K 43P-140 AIX 5.1
AMD X86 450 Mhz Linux 7.3
Apple Powerbook G3 OS-X 10.3
Apple Powerbook G4 OS-X 10.4
Intel P3 1.4 Mhz Linux 7.3
AMD X86 2.0Ghz Linux 8.0
And the difference from the lowest to the highest was SIGNIFICANT.
It was a REAL EYE OPENER. Don't be afraid of Linux and either RedHat
or SuSE offer excellent 24x7 support services.
Good luck.
Bob
Andy Van Royen
simple 43P-150 :)
"Mike Hastings" <mikeh...@hotmail.com> schreef in bericht
news:42f1a878.03042...@posting.google.com...
Karhu
The new p-series stuff supports LPAR (Logical Partitioning) so you can boot
AIX and/or Linux on various partitions. Do you need lots of processors? Do
you need to dynamically reassign processors between LPARS. Do you need a
proved filesystem that works with SSA, SCSI and various flavours of storage.
At the end of the day, AIX is a mature UNIX that supports a lot of the
p-series hardware to achieve maximum uptime. If you don't mind a few hours
downtime - go for Linux. I think IBM are saying, if you need maximum 99.999%
uptime on p-series hardware, go for AIX. If you want to run Linux, and your
app needs a couple of processors (how many does the Linux processor support
these days anyway??) go for Intel hardware and a version of Red Hat.
Karhu
Daniel Packman
>..... I think IBM are saying, if you need maximum 99.999%
>uptime on p-series hardware, go for AIX. If you want to run Linux, and your
>app needs a couple of processors (how many does the Linux processor support
>these days anyway??) go for Intel hardware and a version of Red Hat.
Perhaps a factor.
What about compilers? We have found that the compilers,
particularly for Fortran95, are not the same quality on linux.
--
Daniel Packman
NCAR/ACD
pa...@ucar.edu
Leigh Brown
IBM now provide XL Fortran for PPC/Linux:
http://www-3.ibm.com/software/awdtools/fortran/xlfortran/features/xlf-linux.html
Alternatively, you could try Absoft Pro Fortran for PPC/Linux:
http://www.absoft.com/newppcproductpage.html
If you prefer C/C++ over Fortran then you could try IBM VisualAge C++ 6.0
for PPC/Linux:
http://www-3.ibm.com/software/awdtools/vacpp/features/vacpp-linux.html
Or you could go the open source way and submit your patches to the GNU
compiler collection to improve performance on PPC ;-)
Cheers,
Leigh.
Daniel Packman
>> Fortran95, are not the same quality on linux.
>
>IBM now provide XL Fortran for PPC/Linux:
>
>http://www-3.ibm.com/software/awdtools/fortran/xlfortran/features/xlf-linux.html
I meant on x86 architecture. And particularly Itanium.
Leigh Brown
Sorry. Same logic applies though:
http://www.intel.com/software/products/compilers/flin/
Definitely offtopic now.
Michael W. Ryder
One thing to keep in mind is maintenance on the hardware, especially if
you are running 24 x 7. I like being able to call IBM support at 2 in
the morning on a Sunday and getting on-site help immediately, rather
than waiting till sometime Monday morning. If you move to an Intel
based server make sure that you can get maintenance when you need it,
not when it is convenient for the vendor.
Too many times I have had Intel based machines down for days until the
vendor could get someone to look at the machine, then order the
necessary parts, and then wait for them to be delivered and for him to
get back out and install them. With IBM Service the same problems are
resolved within hours.
> Thanks in advance,
> Mike
Daniel Packman
Leigh Brown <le...@solinno.co.uk> wrote:
>On Sun, 27 Apr 2003 18:04:18 +0000, Daniel Packman wrote:
>> ....
>>>> What about compilers? We have found that the compilers, particularly
>>>> for Fortran95, are not the same quality on linux.
>>>IBM now provide XL Fortran for PPC/Linux:
>>>http://www-3.ibm.com/software/awdtools/fortran/xlfortran/features/xlf-linux.html
>> ....
>> I meant on x86 architecture. And particularly Itanium.
>Sorry. Same logic applies though:
>http://www.intel.com/software/products/compilers/flin/
RIght, this is one of the alternative compilers that, IMHO,
is not yet at the level of the IBM aix compiler.
>Definitely offtopic now.
Really? I think availability and quality of compiler might
be a factor to decide operating systems.
Mike Hastings
>
> We been developing, selling and supporting AIX on RS6K's since 1991.
> Virtually all our apps are written to run on AIX. But, IBM is now
> offering Linux as the OS on some of their boxes in lieu of AIX. Kind
> of sends a signal.
>
> I have four production AIX 5.1 RS6K boxes in my shop now. I've also
> just installed a couple of AMD XP 2400+ boxes with RH 8.0
> professional. My plan is to bring everything over to Linux, app by
> app, and make them run. When I'm satisfied with their interaction the
> Linux box will display the AIX boxes one by one. Then I will retire
> all the AIX boxes.
>
> I find that the Linux boxes on AMD's are as reliable as the RS6K's.
> And, believe it or not, they outperform the AIX boxes and they are
> very very inexpensive.
>
> So this was my $0.02 for Linux as a replacement.
>
> Bob
Thanks so much for the benchmarks and the other great information,
Bob! Everyone has considerably helped me out as far as making a
decision. I think I'm going to take your approach and setup a test
machine and convert apps one by one for the ones that need it. We
also print using samba shared printers and digiboards, so it's good to
hear someone who has a similar setup reporting success with Linux. I
think the hardware support issue is pretty much what I have left to
think on now.
I think I'm going to setup Red Hat and Suse boxes for testing. It
should be pretty interesting to compare uptime, stability, etc.
between the two as compared to RS6K and AIX.
Thanks again to everyone!
Mike
Timothy J. Bogart
Bob Mariotti <R.Mar...@FinancialDataCorp.com> wrote:
>On 25 Apr 2003 12:40:22 -0700, mikeh...@hotmail.com (Mike Hastings)
>wrote:
>
>We been developing, selling and supporting AIX on RS6K's since 1991.
>Virtually all our apps are written to run on AIX. But, IBM is now
>offering Linux as the OS on some of their boxes in lieu of AIX. Kind
>of sends a signal.
Well, it is a signal, but so was the offering of NT on PPC a few years back.
The real trick it drawing the appropriate conclusion from the signal...
8-)
<snip>
--
"I'm a big fan of ignorance based techniques, because humans
have a lot of ignorance, and we want to play our strong suit."
Eric Lander New Scientist
Stewart Dean
Under the new support changes, you will not be able to get/buy 24x7 for
anything but sev1. sev2-3 will have to wait for prime shift. This is a
real PITA to me...many things that I have to do on a hot production
machine I want to do off-shift...and in the future I'll only be able to
call support if the machine busts in the process. No advice for 'is
this the beter way of that'
--
// Stewart Dean - Kingston, NY USA, sd...@ulster.net
Michael W. Ryder
> Amen. But....
> Under the new support changes, you will not be able to get/buy 24x7 for
> anything but sev1. sev2-3 will have to wait for prime shift. This is a
> real PITA to me...many things that I have to do on a hot production
> machine I want to do off-shift...and in the future I'll only be able to
> call support if the machine busts in the process. No advice for 'is
> this the beter way of that'
When was this change made or supposed to be made? I haven't heard
anything about it. Of course with the reliability of the IBM equipment
I rarely end up calling for service, but it has always been at an
inconvenient time.
Stewart Dean
AIX and the RS/6000 line are lovely, dependable products...but the IBM
monolith can be a real PITA to cope with. I found about this when a
blotchy Xerox IBM notice wafted onto my desk (been unable to find out
where it orginated...it just showed up), dated 1/28/2003 to the effect
that Supportline is being witdrawn and after your current Supportline
contract lapses (with all kinds of timeline juggling), it will be
replaced with Software Maintenance, that I should call my sales rep or
800-773-8091, option 2 for details. I have been trying for nearly two
months now to get some straight answers about how things will change.
I know two things:
1) there will be no non-sev1 support off shift; if the machine isn't
dead, don't call....no matter what you're willing to pay. *&^%$
2) they are rolling together software support with software
upgrade...so you don't get one without the other. This means that you
can't get support without also paying for upgrades to the latest level
of AIX. Nice, huh?
Or that's what I THINK they are saying.
And I've had a call in for a month now, asking for a report of
a) what we currently have on Supportline and what it costs
b) what things will cost in the future under Software Maintenance
Everybody is bobbing and weaving and I haven't got any answer yet.
I purely hope that the bean counters aren't going to &*^% something
that wasn't broken.....
If you've got a fax, I can fax you the Notice ot IBM Customers
Michael W. Ryder
I don't have software support so that may be why I didn't receive the
notice. I have only needed hardware support. They have been great
finding the necessary parts at any time of the day or night, something I
have never had any luck with with PC support companies.
Mike Hastings
> 2) they are rolling together software support with software
> upgrade...so you don't get one without the other. This means that you
> can't get support without also paying for upgrades to the latest level
> of AIX. Nice, huh?
> Or that's what I THINK they are saying.
That's my understanding as well.
> I purely hope that the bean counters aren't going to &*^% something
> that wasn't broken.....
> If you've got a fax, I can fax you the Notice ot IBM Customers
I'd be interested in seeing a copy of that if you don't mind. I'd
really appreciate it. I have a fax number I can give you through
private e-mail if your offer still stands. Feel free to contact me
via my e-mail address if you wish.
Mike