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What font is good for master thesis?

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Sebastian Szwarc

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Mar 18, 2010, 8:35:27 AM3/18/10
to
Hello,
perhaps this is trivial question but
could you advice me what font to choose as basic font for master thesis,
that is elegant and nice-to-read with good math support.
I work on macosx so maybe some mac fonts or adobe pro like garamond?

Regards
sebastian

pluton

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Mar 18, 2010, 8:44:44 AM3/18/10
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Hi,

kpfont maybe which is very flexible and consistent.


Bob Tennent

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Mar 18, 2010, 8:56:11 AM3/18/10
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On Thu, 18 Mar 2010 13:35:27 +0100, Sebastian Szwarc wrote:

> could you advice me what font to choose as basic font for master thesis,
> that is elegant and nice-to-read with good math support.
> I work on macosx so maybe some mac fonts or adobe pro like garamond?

If you like Garamond (and don't want to pay anything), I suggest URW Garamond:

http://mirror.its.dal.ca/ctan/fonts/urw/garamond/README.garamond

These are free for non-commercial use.

Math support is available from MathDesign:

http://www.ctan.org/tex-archive/fonts/mathdesign/

For other possibilities, see

http://www.tex.ac.uk/cgi-bin/texfaq2html?label=psfchoice
http://www.tug.dk/FontCatalogue/
http://www.ctan.org/tex-archive/info/Free_Math_Font_Survey/

Bob T.

Joris

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Mar 18, 2010, 9:30:53 AM3/18/10
to

I like both mathpazo (Palatino) and mathptmx (Times). Both have good
math support.

Martin Berggren

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Mar 18, 2010, 9:32:48 AM3/18/10
to

Personally, I am not so crazy about Adobe Garamond when there's a lot
of math. To my taste, the italics are a little to wilde to use as math
variables. Among the free readily available fonts with math support, I
like the fourier package, which uses Adobe Utopia.

Enrico Gregorio

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Mar 18, 2010, 9:34:44 AM3/18/10
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Joris <pin...@gmail.com> wrote:

I wouldn't recommend mathptmx for a "serious" work; it's only useful
if you want to minimize the final size of the PDF file, but the math
symbols are ugly.

Ciao
Enrico

Benoit RIVET

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Mar 18, 2010, 10:39:49 AM3/18/10
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Martin Berggren <o.martin...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Among the free readily available fonts with math support, I
> like the fourier package, which uses Adobe Utopia.

+1 for Michel Bovani's fourier fonts or his variant fouriernc (by
Michael Zedler) which substitutes New Century Schoolbook for Utopia,
using the math symbols of fourier.

Tariq

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Mar 18, 2010, 10:52:10 AM3/18/10
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On Mar 18, 10:39 am, benoit.ri...@libre.fr.invalid (Benoit RIVET)
wrote:

As is pointed out already, palatino (availavle as text font by
mathpazo package) is a nice typeface. However, I prefer to use this
typeface with eulervm package to get the nice caligraphic look of math
variables and other symbols. Use of eulervm allows for digits and math
operators (log, sin etc) to be taken from the text font, so there is a
nice integration of math and text.

I use it as:

\usepackage[T1]{fontenc}
\usepackage{mathpazo}
\usepackage{eulervm}


Goo luck with the thesis. Regards,

Tariq

Hooman

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Mar 18, 2010, 11:12:25 AM3/18/10
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I used Minion Pro as the main font for my thesis. Since you are on Mac
OS X, you already have this font and the math support is provided
through the MnSymbols package and the MinionPro package.

You can achieve the same look by using xelatex instead of pdflatex and
using the system fonts directly. For heading and sectioning commands,
Myriad Pro goes very well with the Minion.

Good luck.

Hooman

Ulrich M. Schwarz

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Mar 18, 2010, 12:04:48 PM3/18/10
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On Thu, 18 Mar 2010 13:35:27 +0100, Sebastian Szwarc <beyo...@tlen.pl>
wrote:

Personally, I like Bitstream Charter. You get math support through
mathdesign, and it's nice as long as you don't need \rho. (I find the \rho
looks a little out-of-place. Of course, you taste may be different.)

So, gee, four people, four, no five, different opinions. Take your pick! :)

Ulrich

Tariq

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Mar 18, 2010, 12:19:17 PM3/18/10
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On Mar 18, 12:04 pm, "Ulrich M. Schwarz" <brother...@gmx.net> wrote:

> Personally, I like Bitstream Charter. You get math support through  
> mathdesign, and it's nice as long as you don't need \rho. (I find the \rho  
> looks a little out-of-place. Of course, you taste may be different.)


I have already responded to this thread. However, since the topic is
still being discussed, I feel that perhaps I can add my opinion when
it comes to personal taste. I have always admired the look of garamond
typeface and was very happy when I saw that it was available with math
support through mathdesign package. However, I have been disappointed
with just one thing: the digit "0" (zero) in this font just gets me
every time I use it! Not only does it not fit well into the rest of
the otherwise elegant typeface, it just does not look good at all.
This is probably just personal taste but I have not been able to get
over this. In fact, this is the only reason that keeps me from using
(and recommending) garamond. I wish there was a way to just swap this
ugly "0" with another one.

Tariq

Sebastian Szwarc

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Mar 18, 2010, 3:44:04 PM3/18/10
to
pluton pisze:

> Hi,
>
> kpfont maybe which is very flexible and consistent.
>
>
Hm...but as far as I know these font doesn't have polish letters or any
CE script.

Sebastian

pluton

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Mar 18, 2010, 4:02:26 PM3/18/10
to
well, I missed the polish letter request.....

Sebastian Szwarc

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Mar 18, 2010, 4:12:59 PM3/18/10
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pluton pisze:

> well, I missed the polish letter request.....

Unforutnately,otherwise kpfonts could be nice choice:)

Seba

Sebastian Szwarc

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Mar 18, 2010, 4:44:45 PM3/18/10
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Thanks for your advice.
I am not devoted to Garamond family, it was only my suggestion.
Adobe has plenty of nice fonts so the choice was always difficult and
needs lot of analyze what to correspond nicely with another.

regards
Sebastian

JohnF

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Mar 18, 2010, 6:15:38 PM3/18/10
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Sebastian Szwarc <beyo...@tlen.pl> wrote:
> could you advice me what font to choose as basic font for master thesis,
> that is elegant and nice-to-read with good math support.

Have you taken a look at TLC2 Section 8.8.3, pages 513-523,
"A collection of math font set-ups"? It contains illustrations
of and instructions for 16 different cpmbinations. (A ctan document
like that would be nice (does one already exist?), both source
and ps/pdf for people without all the fonts. The comprehensive
symbol list is very useful, so I imagine a similar font document
would be useful.)
--
John Forkosh ( mailto: j...@f.com where j=john and f=forkosh )

Danie

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Mar 19, 2010, 1:28:17 AM3/19/10
to

Keep in mind that besides printing, most universities nowadays also
publish theses electronicaly in pdf format. In this regard is it also
important that the font displays good on "low" resolution computer
screens. The two fonts that were designed for low resolution screens
and or printing, and that are in general available for Latex with math
support, are Utopia (fourier package) and Charter (with mathdesign).
If you are willing to make a good investment and buy some fonts then
lucida is also in this class.

I have bought the Bitstream Charter math and extended fonts to
typesetting my PhD. I used Myrad for the sansserif font and Bera Mono
as typewriter font.

Danie Els

Message has been deleted

Martin Berggren

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Mar 19, 2010, 5:49:28 AM3/19/10
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On Mar 19, 6:28 am, Danie <dnj...@netscape.net> wrote:
>
> Keep in mind that besides printing, most universities nowadays also
> publish theses electronicaly in pdf format. In this regard is it also
> important that the font displays good on "low" resolution computer
> screens. The two fonts that were designed for low resolution screens
> and or printing, and that are in general available for Latex with math
> support, are Utopia (fourier package) and Charter (with mathdesign).
> If you are willing to make a good investment and buy some fonts then
> lucida is also in this class.
>

That's a good point! I have noticed that office printing can be an
issue! I have purchased the mathtime pro fonts to get good quality
math Times font (For math heavy texts, Times is not so bad, I think,
but I do not like the free Times alternatives for math). However, I
have noticed that the Adobe Utopia fonts (when using fourier) looks
significantly better on our office Laser printer than the Nimbus Roman
that is used in my setup when using mathtime pro. The Nimbus Roman
looks slightly unsharp when printed, although it looks fine on screen.
When using high resolution professional printing, this will not be an
issue, though! Hmm, maybe I should try another Times alternative...

Sebastian Szwarc

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Mar 19, 2010, 6:30:57 AM3/19/10
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Hooman pisze:

> I used Minion Pro as the main font for my thesis. Since you are on Mac
> OS X, you already have this font and the math support is provided
> through the MnSymbols package and the MinionPro package.
>
> You can achieve the same look by using xelatex instead of pdflatex and
> using the system fonts directly. For heading and sectioning commands,
> Myriad Pro goes very well with the Minion.
>
> Good luck.

Maybe silly question , but how do you set up different font for Headings
and sectioning, and different for the rest of document????

Sebastian

Lars Madsen

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Mar 19, 2010, 6:46:46 AM3/19/10
to

example:

documentclass[a4paper]{memoir}
\usepackage[T1]{fontenc}
\usepackage{lipsum}

\renewcommand\chaptitlefont{\huge\fontfamily{ppl}\bfseries}

\begin{document}


\chapter{test}

\lipsum

\end{document}

--

/daleif (remove RTFSIGNATURE from email address)

LaTeX FAQ: http://www.tex.ac.uk/faq
LaTeX book: http://www.imf.au.dk/system/latex/bog/ (in Danish)
Remember to post minimal examples, see URL below
http://www.tex.ac.uk/cgi-bin/texfaq2html?label=minxampl
http://www.minimalbeispiel.de/mini-en.html

Sebastian Szwarc

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Mar 19, 2010, 7:02:45 AM3/19/10
to

> documentclass[a4paper]{memoir}
> \usepackage[T1]{fontenc}
> \usepackage{lipsum}
>
> \renewcommand\chaptitlefont{\huge\fontfamily{ppl}\bfseries}
>
> \begin{document}
>
>
> \chapter{test}
>
> \lipsum
>
> \end{document}
>
>
>

Thanks for answer.I wasnt aware of \chaptitlefont macro. I hope I can
use this in XeTeX too?

Sebastian

Lars Madsen

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Mar 19, 2010, 7:18:01 AM3/19/10
to

no idea, I don't use it.

note, \chaptitlefont is only relevant for the memoir class

Benoit RIVET

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Mar 19, 2010, 7:49:29 AM3/19/10
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Martin Berggren <o.martin...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Hmm, maybe I should try another Times alternative...

Did you try and use Mathematica fonts ?

The fonts are available on
<http://support.wolfram.com/technotes/latestfonts.en.html> (please note
the licensing conditions), with LaTex support available on
<http://phong.informatik.uni-leipzig.de/~kuska/>, and specifically
<http://phong.informatik.uni-leipzig.de/~kuska/wri_texmf_4.2.zip>.

Hendrik van Hees

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Mar 19, 2010, 7:57:29 AM3/19/10
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Well, but you should also know which main font for the text to use.
Together with CM as in the documentation to Kuska's package it doesn't
look so nice to me. I still vote for mathdesign and the rennaissance
antiqua Garamond :-).

Benoit RIVET wrote:

> Martin Berggren <o.martin...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Hmm, maybe I should try another Times alternative...
>
> Did you try and use Mathematica fonts ?

--
Hendrik van Hees
Institut für Theoretische Physik
Justus-Liebig-Universität Gießen
http://theorie.physik.uni-giessen.de/~hees/

Benoit RIVET

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Mar 19, 2010, 10:07:56 AM3/19/10
to
Hendrik van Hees <Hendrik...@physik.uni-giessen.de> wrote:

> Well, but you should also know which main font for the text to use.
> Together with CM as in the documentation to Kuska's package it doesn't
> look so nice to me. I still vote for mathdesign and the rennaissance
> antiqua Garamond :-).

Mathematica Fonts are intended to be used with Times. As an example, you
can find on <http://benoit.rivet.free.fr/tex/testmath_wf.pdf> the ams
torture test as compiled using the wrisym package with a default texlive
installation and Mathematica fonts installed (the fonts themselves maybe
different from the current fonts available on
<http://support.wolfram.com/technotes/latestfonts.en.html> since the
current fonts available for download are the version 7 of Mathematica
fonts).

Thus, you can check whether or not Mathematica suits nicely with Times.
There are other examples of math fonts on
<http://benoit.rivet.free.fr/tex/tex_polices_exemples.htm> (beware!
french only, and written about five years ago : I cite the Stix fonts
project, announcing a target release in 2006...).

For each math font, I propose examples of both the AMS torture test and
a math article by Riemann, as transcribed by D.R. Wilkins.

Besides Computer modern, Times (with several matching math fonts),
Palatino, Utopia, Charter or Garamond, there are examples using Minion,
Antykwa Torunska, New Century Schoolbook and Bookman; or CMbright, Arev,
Kurier and Iwona (the last four fonts are sans serif).

All examples are based on fonts available for free download; most of
them being included in TexLive or MikTex.

Martin Berggren

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Mar 19, 2010, 11:33:22 AM3/19/10
to
On Mar 19, 12:49 pm, benoit.ri...@libre.fr.invalid (Benoit RIVET)
wrote:

> Martin Berggren <o.martin.bergg...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Hmm, maybe I should try another Times alternative...
>
> Did you try and use Mathematica fonts ?
>

No, I have not tried them. Looking at the example in the
documentation at the link you gave (the file msymdoc.pdf), I don't
really like the integrals, and the math italic v seems to be the
normal Times v that looks like \nu. But I suspect that the Mathematica
fonts at least are better than mathptmx, right?

But the problem I discussed about the quality of the laser printout is
an issue with the main text font and not the math. Maybe it's a font
design issue; too thin details at 10pt for a laser printer, perhaps?

AlistairK

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Mar 19, 2010, 11:51:24 AM3/19/10
to
Hooman wrote:
> I used Minion Pro as the main font for my thesis. Since you are on Mac
> OS X, you already have this font and the math support is provided
> through the MnSymbols package and the MinionPro package.
>
> You can achieve the same look by using xelatex instead of pdflatex and
> using the system fonts directly. For heading and sectioning commands,
> Myriad Pro goes very well with the Minion.

Are there instructions somewhere for selecting math fonts in XeLaTeX?
Last time I tried it, many months ago, I didn't manage to make it work.

michuco

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Mar 19, 2010, 1:09:53 PM3/19/10
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It is still not stable the last time I looked at it, but I managed to
get it
working with the following lines

\usepackage{amsmath,amsthm}
\usepackage{unicode-math}
\setmathfont{Cambria Math}

and with help from Philipp Stephani. I got the unicode-math package
from <http://github.com/wspr/unicode-math>

Check the XeTex thread about a month ago.

Regards,

Michuco

Hooman

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Mar 19, 2010, 2:23:42 PM3/19/10
to
XeLaTeX will be a good choice only if you are using Minion Pro as your
main font as there is a package that supports Minion for Math. This is
how I do it:

\documentclass{scrbook}

\usepackage[mathlf]{MinionPro} % This will automatically load
MnSymbols and amsmath
\usepackage[no-math]{fontspec}
\usepackage{xlxtra}
\defaultfontfeatures{Mapping=tex-text}
\setmainfont{Minion Pro}
\setsansfont{Myriad Pro}

If you are happy with Minion Pro as you main text font, this method
creates very nice documents. For fine-tuning, there are several
options in Minion Pro package just about mathematical details (such as
an open "g" character, two variants of integral signs, etc.).

There is a new package called mathspec (http://www.ctan.org/tex-
archive/help/Catalogue/entries/mathspec.html) with the sole purpose of
defining math fonts using xelatex.

Regarding changing the font titles, the memoir class offers a lot of
customization, so does koma-script document classes. Also, if you
prefer to use the default latex class files, there is titlesec package
(http://www.ctan.org/tex-archive/help/Catalogue/entries/titlesec.html)
which allows you to do all sort of customizations on titles and
sectioning commands.


Best,

Hooman Javidnia

AlistairK

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Mar 19, 2010, 5:43:51 PM3/19/10
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Sebastian Szwarc wrote:
> Hello,
> perhaps this is trivial question but
> could you advice me what font to choose as basic font for master thesis,
> that is elegant and nice-to-read with good math support.
> I work on macosx so maybe some mac fonts or adobe pro like garamond?

I would steer away from Garamond because it is too stylized for today's
readers. It can be distracting because it looks so blatantly historical
and even ornamental. Plus the weight is relatively light so it can be
difficult to read with tired eyes.

Hooman mentioned Minion Pro. I used that for a thesis as well because I
judged it discreet and also easy on the eyes of a person who is already
tired from having been reading all day long, plus it had good math
support. The shapes have good weight contrasts, are very consistent
with each other without any distracting quirks. Some Cambridge books
are printed in Minion, and Adobe uses it.

I didn't do mine through XeLaTeX, however, hence my other question about
how to get Minion math working.

The Mac comes with some other typefaces that could also be suitable but
arranging math support could be tricky.

Your choice should depend at least partly on how you think your readers
will respond. The thesis is for them, after all. Perhaps you could try
several drafts on them with different typefaces and ask which is easiest
to read.

Martin Berggren

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Mar 20, 2010, 5:38:57 AM3/20/10
to
On Mar 19, 10:43 pm, AlistairK <n...@spam.invalid> wrote:

> Hooman mentioned Minion Pro.  I used that for a thesis as well because I
> judged it discreet and also easy on the eyes of a person who is already
> tired from having been reading all day long, plus it had good math
> support.  The shapes have good weight contrasts, are very consistent
> with each other without any distracting quirks.  Some Cambridge books
> are printed in Minion, and Adobe uses it.
>

I agree! Minion Pro is quite appropriate for math heave texts. There
is one irritating issue for math, though, and that's the $v$. It
looks way too much like $\nu$ I think, so when using Minion Pro I felt
the need of using $\upsilon$ as the variable v... I have suggested to
the developers of the math support for Minion Pro to redesign math
italic v, but they did not seem to like that idea.

Times has the same issue, but fortunately, there is a redesigned math
italic v in MathTime pro that takes care of that issue.

Sebastian Szwarc

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Mar 20, 2010, 3:49:31 PM3/20/10
to
Hooman pisze:

> XeLaTeX will be a good choice only if you are using Minion Pro as your
> main font as there is a package that supports Minion for Math. This is
> how I do it:
>
> \documentclass{scrbook}
>
> \usepackage[mathlf]{MinionPro} % This will automatically load
> MnSymbols and amsmath
> \usepackage[no-math]{fontspec}
> \usepackage{xlxtra}
> \defaultfontfeatures{Mapping=tex-text}
> \setmainfont{Minion Pro}
> \setsansfont{Myriad Pro}
>
Hello, this doesn't work in MacTex because there is no minionpro package
in repo - texlive utility cannot find it.
I think better solution will be mathspec since minionpro package is
designed as for adding support for this font in LaTeX not XeLaTeX.
without minionpro no-math option of fonstpec clashes with
defaultfontfeatures.

Sebastian

Hooman

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Mar 21, 2010, 2:11:19 AM3/21/10
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Hello Sebastian,

MinionPro package requires you to have the actual fonts, which you
have since you are on Mac OS X. The instruction to install the fonts
for TeX/LaTeX is available here: http://tug.ctan.org/tex-archive/fonts/minionpro/
Follow the instructions and install the fonts in local texmf tree.

The MinionPro package in the method that I had posted is just used to
typeset the mathematics. For the rest of the text, the work is done by
XeLaTeX. This methods works perfectly fine for me on Mac OS X, using
TeX Mac.

HTH,
Hooman

Sebastian Szwarc

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Mar 21, 2010, 8:04:42 AM3/21/10
to

>
> Hello Sebastian,
>
> MinionPro package requires you to have the actual fonts, which you
> have since you are on Mac OS X. The instruction to install the fonts
> for TeX/LaTeX is available here: http://tug.ctan.org/tex-archive/fonts/minionpro/
> Follow the instructions and install the fonts in local texmf tree.
>
> The MinionPro package in the method that I had posted is just used to
> typeset the mathematics. For the rest of the text, the work is done by
> XeLaTeX. This methods works perfectly fine for me on Mac OS X, using
> TeX Mac.
>
> HTH,
> Hooman

Hello,
Thanks for response.I will try to install minionpro manually and then
use this declaration with xelatex.The fonts are present in the system
but mactex couldnt find minionpro package.

Sebastian

Diederick C. Niehorster

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Mar 22, 2010, 1:58:54 AM3/22/10
to
> Hooman- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Hmm, when using such an expensive font, and when LaTeX support is
offered, I'd prefer to use LaTeX instead of XeLaTeX, seeing pdfTex
supports microtypograhy features and XeTeX based options do not....

This quickly becomes invalid of course when your unicode needs
increase

Dee

Diederick C. Niehorster

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Mar 22, 2010, 2:00:41 AM3/22/10
to
On Mar 18, 11:12 pm, Hooman <hooman.javid...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I used Minion Pro as the main font for my thesis. Since you are on Mac
> OS X, you already have this font and the math support is provided
> through the MnSymbols package and the MinionPro package.
>
> You can achieve the same look by using xelatex instead of pdflatex and
> using the system fonts directly. For heading and sectioning commands,
> Myriad Pro goes very well with the Minion.
>
> Good luck.
>
> Hooman
>
> On Mar 18, 10:52 am, Tariq <tariq.per...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Mar 18, 10:39 am, benoit.ri...@libre.fr.invalid (Benoit RIVET)

> > wrote:
>
> > > Martin Berggren <o.martin.bergg...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > Among the free readily available fonts with math support, I
> > > > like the fourier package, which uses Adobe Utopia.
>
> > > +1 for Michel Bovani's fourier fonts or his variant fouriernc (by
> > > Michael Zedler) which substitutes New Century Schoolbook for Utopia,
> > > using the math symbols of fourier.
>
> > As is pointed out already, palatino (availavle as text font by
> > mathpazo package) is a nice typeface. However, I prefer to use this
> > typeface with eulervm package to get the nice caligraphic look of math
> > variables and other symbols. Use of eulervm allows for digits and math
> > operators (log, sin etc) to be taken from the text font, so there is a
> > nice integration of math and text.
>
> > I use it as:
>
> > \usepackage[T1]{fontenc}
> > \usepackage{mathpazo}
> > \usepackage{eulervm}
>
> > Goo luck with the thesis. Regards,
>
> > Tariq- Hide quoted text -

>
> - Show quoted text -

I am liking Minion Pro (though would even prefer Arno Pro). What
typewriter font did you use to match it?

Best,
Dee

AlistairK

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Mar 22, 2010, 10:46:29 AM3/22/10
to

I'm not surprised; if they re-designed the italic v it would upset the
consistency. This sort of indistinguishability arises with numerous
typefaces, also confusing 1 with l, O with 0, $\upsilon$ with $v$. When
you include older Greek typefaces it can get more confusing still, at
least for mathematicians, owing to how many of the glyphs have evolved
since the beginning of printing. But this also suggests that maybe
changing the Greek character set could be more palatable. In the old
days, typesetters could generally mix and match Roman, italic and Greek
faces however they saw fit. How about swapping out the Minion Greek for
a different Greek? The downside is that the new one may differ so much
in weight, axis, stroke contrast and so on as to be distracting.

Hooman

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Mar 22, 2010, 3:17:17 PM3/22/10
to
On Mar 22, 2:00 am, "Diederick C. Niehorster" <dcni...@gmail.com>
wrote:

Hello Dee. In my thesis, I didn't need to use any fixed width font, so
I didn't go through the trouble of finding a matching one. I also
tried Arno Pro. It looks really good, specially that you can use the
optical sizes, but the lack of a package for mathematical symbols
stopped me from using it.

Hooman

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Mar 22, 2010, 3:24:14 PM3/22/10
to

I have seen this $\nu$ vs. italic v in different fonts. In my thesis,
I had both $\nu$ and italic v in my equations. Since they really
looked alike, I used what was done in a textbook and used upright v
instead of italic v. The equations that have v in them look a bit
strange in close inspection, but I could live with that. I think
changing the shape of \nu with be better idea than changing the shape
of _v_ for most latin alphabets. It doesn't happen very often that a
text in English or other languages to use $\nu$, but v is very common.

Hooman

Martin Berggren

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Mar 22, 2010, 3:33:00 PM3/22/10
to
On Mar 22, 3:46 pm, AlistairK <n...@spam.invalid> wrote:
> Martin Berggren wrote:
> > On Mar 19, 10:43 pm, AlistairK <n...@spam.invalid> wrote:
>
> > ...There

> > is one irritating issue  for math, though, and that's the $v$. It
> > looks way too much like $\nu$ I think, so when using Minion Pro I felt
> > the need of using $\upsilon$ as the variable v... I have suggested to
> > the developers of the math support for Minion Pro to redesign math
> > italic v, but they did not seem to like that idea.
>
> > Times has the same issue, but fortunately, there is a redesigned math
> > italic v in MathTime pro that takes care of that issue.
>
> I'm not surprised; if they re-designed the italic v it would upset the
> consistency.  

I'm sure that's the reason for the unwillingness to adjust the
design.

> This sort of indistinguishability arises with numerous
> typefaces, also confusing 1 with l, O with 0, $\upsilon$ with $v$.  

However, for me the possible of confusion of $v$ with $\nu$ is much
more serious, since I (and many others) use these symbols in the same
formulas quite often (representing for instance a velocity component
and a viscosity parameter). In fact, the presence of a "pointed"
italic v is for me almost a sufficient condition not to use a
particular font. I believe Spivak did the right thing with Mathtime; I
don't see anything wrong with adjusting a few glyphs of an otherwise
math-appropriate typeface for clarity.

> When
> you include older Greek typefaces it can get more confusing still, at
> least for mathematicians, owing to how many of the glyphs have evolved
> since the beginning of printing.  But this also suggests that maybe
> changing the Greek character set could be more palatable.  In the old
> days, typesetters could generally mix and match Roman, italic and Greek
> faces however they saw fit.  How about swapping out the Minion Greek for
> a different Greek?  

Naa, don't like that; I expect the difference between $v$ and $\nu$ to
be precisely the rounding.

> The downside is that the new one may differ so much
> in weight, axis, stroke contrast and so on as to be distracting.

Exactly. For presentations, I do mix typfaces (Optima text + Mathtime
Pro), but for articles, it's nice to be consistent.

Christophe Caignaert

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Mar 22, 2010, 4:00:16 PM3/22/10
to
On 22 mar, 20:24, Hooman <hooman.javid...@gmail.com> wrote:

>
> I have seen this $\nu$ vs. italic v in different fonts. In my thesis,
> I had both $\nu$ and italic v in my equations. Since they really
> looked alike, I used what was done in a textbook and used upright v
> instead of italic v. The equations that have v in them look a bit
> strange in close inspection, but I could live with that. I think
> changing the shape of \nu  with be better idea than changing the shape
> of _v_ for most latin alphabets. It doesn't happen very often that a
> text in English or other languages to use $\nu$, but v is very common.
>
> Hooman

The $\nu$ and $v$ are very different with kpfonts...

Christophe

AlistairK

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Mar 22, 2010, 5:19:15 PM3/22/10
to
Martin Berggren wrote:
> I
> don't see anything wrong with adjusting a few glyphs of an otherwise
> math-appropriate typeface for clarity.
>

I agree, but it should be done at the typesetter's discretion rather
than imposed in the package (except by a re-design from the foundry)
because otherwise what we is purported to be Minion would instead
something else.

Traditionally this sort of thing was done by typesetters as needed,
sometimes for improved clarity, sometimes because they ran out of a
glyph and needed to substitute.

How about proposing an option for a variant italic v that could be
implemented as a package option?

I also use $v$ with $\nu$ sometimes, and with $\upsilon$ at others, so
would appreciate such a possibility.

When all three are required I am more tempted to think of using upright
or a sans-serif Greek. But matching them would be difficult: I recall
reading a book on presocratic philosophy combining English in serif
Roman with Greek in sans-serif and finding the contrast very jarring.

Martin Berggren

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Mar 22, 2010, 6:07:47 PM3/22/10
to
On Mar 22, 10:19 pm, AlistairK <n...@spam.invalid> wrote:
>
> How about proposing an option for a variant italic v that could be
> implemented as a package option?

Why not. But I have the feeling that this would be an effort in
vain...

>
> I also use $v$ with $\nu$ sometimes, and with $\upsilon$ at others, so
> would appreciate such a possibility.

If I happen to use Minion Pro (not so often), I tend to use $\upsilon$
in place of $v$. In Minion Pro's case, the $\upsilon$ is close enough
to the $v$ I would like to see.

Diederick C. Niehorster

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Mar 23, 2010, 1:48:47 AM3/23/10
to
> stopped me from using it.- Hide quoted text -

>
> - Show quoted text -

Hi Hooman,

<I'll copy this message into my thread to keep it consistent>

Offlist, I've just the advice to take a look at the non-free, but
quite cheap, Math Time Pro 2 fonts, http://www.pctex.com/mtpro2.html.
These match Times. I was also pointed to an effort by Micheal Sharpe,
in which he adapts the fonts to work with Hoefler,
http://email.esm.psu.edu/pipermail/macosx-tex/2010-January/042607.html.
I'll try this out and see where I can get with it!

I'll definately post back once I've got something satisfactory.

Best,
Dee

Christophe Caignaert

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Mar 23, 2010, 6:42:12 AM3/23/10
to
On 22 mar, 20:24, Hooman <hooman.javid...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I have seen this $\nu$ vs. italic v in different fonts. In my thesis,
> I had both $\nu$ and italic v in my equations. Since they really
> looked alike, I used what was done in a textbook and used upright v
> instead of italic v. The equations that have v in them look a bit
> strange in close inspection, but I could live with that. I think
> changing the shape of \nu  with be better idea than changing the shape
> of _v_ for most latin alphabets. It doesn't happen very often that a
> text in English or other languages to use $\nu$, but v is very common.
>
> Hooman

Don't forget that \nu is a command of the math package...

You can easily choose a "good" \nu for you in some math package, and
it's not difficult to overwrite the definition of your bad \nu with
the good one!

Christophe

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