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xetex minimal example
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Rusi Mody
Jun 2, 2014, 1:16:46 PM6/2/14
to
Taking the minimal example from
http://tex.stackexchange.com/questions/10117/unicode-math-and-amsmath-environments
viz
----------------------------------
\documentclass{article}
\usepackage{amsmath}
\usepackage{unicode-math}
\setmathfont{XITS Math}
\usepackage{xltxtra}
\begin{document}
\begin{equation}
α = \beta^2_i + β^2_i
\end{equation}
\begin{align}
a &= b\\
b &= c
\end{align}
\end{document}
-------------------------
and running xelatex on it I get:
kpathsea:make_tex: Invalid fontname `XITS Math/ICU', contains ' '
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
!
! fontspec error: "font-not-found"
!
! The font "XITS Math" cannot be found.
!
! See the fontspec documentation for further information.
!
! For immediate help type H <return>.
!...............................................
l.4 \setmathfont{XITS Math}
?
---------------
This is on debian.
I have texlive-fonts-extra package installed which claims to have XIT font.
So one narrow, one broad question:
- How to get this to work?
- Does xe{la}tex really work or is it best to stay with good ol latex?
http://tex.stackexchange.com/questions/10117/unicode-math-and-amsmath-environments
viz
----------------------------------
\documentclass{article}
\usepackage{amsmath}
\usepackage{unicode-math}
\setmathfont{XITS Math}
\usepackage{xltxtra}
\begin{document}
\begin{equation}
α = \beta^2_i + β^2_i
\end{equation}
\begin{align}
a &= b\\
b &= c
\end{align}
\end{document}
-------------------------
and running xelatex on it I get:
kpathsea:make_tex: Invalid fontname `XITS Math/ICU', contains ' '
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
!
! fontspec error: "font-not-found"
!
! The font "XITS Math" cannot be found.
!
! See the fontspec documentation for further information.
!
! For immediate help type H <return>.
!...............................................
l.4 \setmathfont{XITS Math}
?
---------------
This is on debian.
I have texlive-fonts-extra package installed which claims to have XIT font.
So one narrow, one broad question:
- How to get this to work?
- Does xe{la}tex really work or is it best to stay with good ol latex?
Ulrike Fischer
Jun 2, 2014, 1:33:29 PM6/2/14
to
Am Mon, 2 Jun 2014 10:16:46 -0700 (PDT) schrieb Rusi Mody:
> This is on debian.
> I have texlive-fonts-extra package installed which claims to have XIT font.
> So one narrow, one broad question:
> - How to get this to work?
> - Does xe{la}tex really work or is it best to stay with good ol latex?
Works fine on windows in miktex and texlive 2013/2014. Probably your
> This is on debian.
> I have texlive-fonts-extra package installed which claims to have XIT font.
> So one narrow, one broad question:
> - How to get this to work?
> - Does xe{la}tex really work or is it best to stay with good ol latex?
texsystem is outdated. Or missing some fonts.
--
Ulrike Fischer
http://www.troubleshooting-tex.de/
Rusi Mody
Jun 2, 2014, 1:40:04 PM6/2/14
to
On Monday, June 2, 2014 11:03:29 PM UTC+5:30, Ulrike Fischer wrote:
> Am Mon, 2 Jun 2014 10:16:46 -0700 (PDT) schrieb Rusi Mody:
> > This is on debian.
> > I have texlive-fonts-extra package installed which claims to have XIT font.
> > So one narrow, one broad question:
> > - How to get this to work?
> > - Does xe{la}tex really work or is it best to stay with good ol latex?
> Works fine on windows in miktex and texlive 2013/2014. Probably your
> texsystem is outdated. Or missing some fonts.
Apt shows the texlive version as 2013.20140408-1
> Am Mon, 2 Jun 2014 10:16:46 -0700 (PDT) schrieb Rusi Mody:
> > This is on debian.
> > I have texlive-fonts-extra package installed which claims to have XIT font.
> > So one narrow, one broad question:
> > - How to get this to work?
> > - Does xe{la}tex really work or is it best to stay with good ol latex?
> Works fine on windows in miktex and texlive 2013/2014. Probably your
> texsystem is outdated. Or missing some fonts.
And I can see this
$ pwd
/usr/share/texlive/texmf-dist/fonts/opentype/public/xits
$ ls
xits-bolditalic.otf xits-bold.otf xits-italic.otf xits-mathbold.otf xits-math.otf xits-regular.otf
So any suggestions how does one start to debug font-finding issues?
giacomo boffi
Jun 2, 2014, 2:05:24 PM6/2/14
to
Rusi Mody <rusto...@gmail.com> writes:
> [...]
> \setmathfont{XITS Math}
> [...]
--
miao pinione -- Theo, in IHC
> [...]
> \setmathfont{XITS Math}
> [...]
> kpathsea:make_tex: Invalid fontname `XITS Math/ICU', contains ' '
================================================================^^^
--
miao pinione -- Theo, in IHC
Rusi Mody
Jun 2, 2014, 9:35:47 PM6/2/14
to
On Monday, June 2, 2014 11:35:24 PM UTC+5:30, giacomo boffi wrote:
\setmathfont{XITS}
kpathsea: Running mktexmf ICU
! I can't find file `ICU'.
<*> \mode:=ljfour; mag:=1; nonstopmode; input ICU
Please type another input file name
! Emergency stop.
<*> \mode:=ljfour; mag:=1; nonstopmode; input ICU
Transcript written on mfput.log.
grep: ICU.log: No such file or directory
mktextfm: `mf-nowin -progname=mf \mode:=ljfour; mag:=1; nonstopmode; input ICU' failed to make ICU.tfm.
kpathsea: Appending font creation commands to missfont.log.
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
!
! fontspec error: "font-not-found"
!
! The font "XITS" cannot be found.
Then tried
\setmathfont{xits-math}
since I see a xits-math.otf file in
/usr/share/texlive/texmf-dist/fonts/opentype/public/xits
pathsea: Running mktexmf ICU
! I can't find file `ICU'.
<*> \mode:=ljfour; mag:=1; nonstopmode; input ICU
Please type another input file name
! Emergency stop.
<*> \mode:=ljfour; mag:=1; nonstopmode; input ICU
Transcript written on mfput.log.
grep: ICU.log: No such file or directory
mktextfm: `mf-nowin -progname=mf \mode:=ljfour; mag:=1; nonstopmode; input ICU' failed to make ICU.tfm.
kpathsea: Appending font creation commands to missfont.log.
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
!
! fontspec error: "font-not-found"
!
! The font "xits-math" cannot be found.
\setmathfont{xits-math.otf}
it seems to have worked
--------------------------------
--------------------------------
So now my question becomes a little narrower:
How to specify fonts? Use file-system names?
Whats the current accepted practice?
> Rusi Mody writes:
>
> > [...]
> > \setmathfont{XITS Math}
> > [...]
>
> > kpathsea:make_tex: Invalid fontname `XITS Math/ICU', contains ' '
Ok so I tried
>
> > [...]
> > \setmathfont{XITS Math}
> > [...]
>
> > kpathsea:make_tex: Invalid fontname `XITS Math/ICU', contains ' '
\setmathfont{XITS}
kpathsea: Running mktexmf ICU
! I can't find file `ICU'.
<*> \mode:=ljfour; mag:=1; nonstopmode; input ICU
Please type another input file name
! Emergency stop.
<*> \mode:=ljfour; mag:=1; nonstopmode; input ICU
Transcript written on mfput.log.
grep: ICU.log: No such file or directory
mktextfm: `mf-nowin -progname=mf \mode:=ljfour; mag:=1; nonstopmode; input ICU' failed to make ICU.tfm.
kpathsea: Appending font creation commands to missfont.log.
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
!
! fontspec error: "font-not-found"
!
!
! See the fontspec documentation for further information.
!
! For immediate help type H <return>.
--------------------------------------
! See the fontspec documentation for further information.
!
! For immediate help type H <return>.
Then tried
\setmathfont{xits-math}
since I see a xits-math.otf file in
/usr/share/texlive/texmf-dist/fonts/opentype/public/xits
pathsea: Running mktexmf ICU
! I can't find file `ICU'.
<*> \mode:=ljfour; mag:=1; nonstopmode; input ICU
Please type another input file name
! Emergency stop.
<*> \mode:=ljfour; mag:=1; nonstopmode; input ICU
Transcript written on mfput.log.
grep: ICU.log: No such file or directory
mktextfm: `mf-nowin -progname=mf \mode:=ljfour; mag:=1; nonstopmode; input ICU' failed to make ICU.tfm.
kpathsea: Appending font creation commands to missfont.log.
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
!
! fontspec error: "font-not-found"
!
!
! See the fontspec documentation for further information.
Finally with
! See the fontspec documentation for further information.
\setmathfont{xits-math.otf}
it seems to have worked
--------------------------------
--------------------------------
So now my question becomes a little narrower:
How to specify fonts? Use file-system names?
Whats the current accepted practice?
Rusi Mody
Jun 3, 2014, 12:40:00 AM6/3/14
to
Slightly adding to my minimal example in the direction I would like
to use xelatex:
--------------------------------------
\end{equation}
\end{document}
-------------------
The RHS of that equation consists of 4 different ways of writing
a beta with a 2 superscript and an i subscript.
They all seem to produce the same output. Which is the
expected/recommended form?
I am a bit surprised that both βᵢ² + β²ᵢ produce the same result.
[I am also concerned about the right way because occasionally
evince crashes showing the pdf!! I guess though that this has
little to do with xelatex]
to use xelatex:
--------------------------------------
\documentclass{article}
\usepackage{amsmath}
\usepackage{unicode-math}
\setmathfont{xits-math.otf}
\usepackage{amsmath}
\usepackage{unicode-math}
\usepackage{xltxtra}
\begin{document}
\begin{equation}
α = \beta^2_i + β^2_i + βᵢ² + β²ᵢ
\begin{document}
\begin{equation}
\end{equation}
\end{document}
-------------------
The RHS of that equation consists of 4 different ways of writing
a beta with a 2 superscript and an i subscript.
They all seem to produce the same output. Which is the
expected/recommended form?
I am a bit surprised that both βᵢ² + β²ᵢ produce the same result.
[I am also concerned about the right way because occasionally
evince crashes showing the pdf!! I guess though that this has
little to do with xelatex]
Ulrike Fischer
Jun 3, 2014, 3:46:37 AM6/3/14
to
Am Mon, 2 Jun 2014 18:35:47 -0700 (PDT) schrieb Rusi Mody:
> Finally with
> \setmathfont{xits-math.otf}
> it seems to have worked
On linux you have to set up fontconfig if you want fonts in your
> Finally with
> \setmathfont{xits-math.otf}
> it seems to have worked
texmf tree to be found by name:
http://www.tug.org/texlive/doc/texlive-en/texlive-en.html#x1-340003.4.4
François Patte
Jun 3, 2014, 5:26:55 AM6/3/14
to
debian but from CTAN.
It compiles normaly with xelatex and evince (which is ugly on debian)
doesn't crash...
Your problme seems to be a debian problem (bad implementation of texlive
maybe).
--
François Patte
Université Paris Descartes
Rusi Mody
Jun 3, 2014, 8:58:15 AM6/3/14
to
On Tuesday, June 3, 2014 1:16:37 PM UTC+5:30, Ulrike Fischer wrote:
> Am Mon, 2 Jun 2014 18:35:47 -0700 (PDT) schrieb Rusi Mody:
> > Finally with
> > \setmathfont{xits-math.otf}
> > it seems to have worked
> On linux you have to set up fontconfig if you want fonts in your
> texmf tree to be found by name:
> http://www.tug.org/texlive/doc/texlive-en/texlive-en.html#x1-340003.4.4
Thanks Ulrike - that looked like a good and hopeful suggestion.
> Am Mon, 2 Jun 2014 18:35:47 -0700 (PDT) schrieb Rusi Mody:
> > Finally with
> > \setmathfont{xits-math.otf}
> > it seems to have worked
> On linux you have to set up fontconfig if you want fonts in your
> texmf tree to be found by name:
> http://www.tug.org/texlive/doc/texlive-en/texlive-en.html#x1-340003.4.4
Unfortunately the links dont follow on my system -- IOW it looks that
my system is buggy. Of course a complete newbie talking of uncovering
system-bugs always needs to be taken with lots of salt!
Anyway heres the description:
I took your link above and found it on my system as well:
file:///usr/share/doc/texlive-doc/texlive/texlive-en/texlive-en.html#x1-340003.4.4
[Doing this just in case my tex is somehow different than the standard!]
Not so. I find the same as at your link, viz:
| [For Unix Systems]
| To facilitate this, when the xetex package is installed (either at
| initial installation or later), the necessary configuration file is
| created in TEXMFSYSVAR/fonts/conf/texlive-fontconfig.conf.
|
| To set up the TEX Live fonts for system-wide use (assuming you have
| suitable privileges), proceed as follows:
|
| 1. Copy the texlive-fontconfig.conf file to /etc/fonts/conf.d/09-texlive.conf.
| 2. Run fc-cache -fsv.
So what's TEXMFSYSVAR then?
I find (at file:///usr/share/doc/tex-common/TeX-on-Debian.html/ch2.html#s-sec-texmf-trees)
| TEXMFSYSVAR
| Default location: /var/lib/texmf/
So that means I have to copy the file:
/var/lib/texmf/fonts/conf/texlive-fontconfig.conf to etc
But I find no such file.
In fact there is no conf directory inside the /var/lib/texmf/fonts/ directory at all.
Does this look like a bug?
And/or is it enough reason to junk the debian packaged texlive and directly
go for a CTAN one?
For obvious reasons I'd like to avoid that :D
But will do so if its the best bet!
Rolf Niepraschk
Jun 3, 2014, 1:13:32 PM6/3/14
to
sudo cp $(kpsewhich --var-value
TEXMFSYSVAR)/fonts/conf/texlive-fontconfig.conf
/etc/fonts/conf.d/09-texlive.conf
sudo fc-cache -fsv
mkluatexfontdb --force --verbose=-1 -vvv
...Rolf
--
|| Rolf Niepraschk, email: Rolf (.) Niepraschk (at) gmx (.) de
|| Berlin, Germany
Rusi Mody
Jun 3, 2014, 1:44:45 PM6/3/14
to
On Tuesday, June 3, 2014 10:43:32 PM UTC+5:30, Rolf Niepraschk wrote:
> Am 02.06.2014 19:40, schrieb Rusi Mody:
> > On Monday, June 2, 2014 11:03:29 PM UTC+5:30, Ulrike Fischer wrote:
> >> Am Mon, 2 Jun 2014 10:16:46 -0700 (PDT) schrieb Rusi Mody:
> >>> This is on debian.
> >>> I have texlive-fonts-extra package installed which claims to have XIT font.
> >>> So one narrow, one broad question:
> >>> - How to get this to work?
> >>> - Does xe{la}tex really work or is it best to stay with good ol latex?
> >> Works fine on windows in miktex and texlive 2013/2014. Probably your
> >> texsystem is outdated. Or missing some fonts.
> > Apt shows the texlive version as 2013.20140408-1
> > And I can see this
> > $ pwd
> > /usr/share/texlive/texmf-dist/fonts/opentype/public/xits
> > $ ls
> > xits-bolditalic.otf xits-bold.otf xits-italic.otf xits-mathbold.otf xits-math.otf xits-regular.otf
> > So any suggestions how does one start to debug font-finding issues?
> Try the following:
> sudo cp $(kpsewhich --var-value
> TEXMFSYSVAR)/fonts/conf/texlive-fontconfig.conf
> /etc/fonts/conf.d/09-texlive.conf
$ kpsewhich --var-value TEXMFSYSVAR
> Am 02.06.2014 19:40, schrieb Rusi Mody:
> > On Monday, June 2, 2014 11:03:29 PM UTC+5:30, Ulrike Fischer wrote:
> >> Am Mon, 2 Jun 2014 10:16:46 -0700 (PDT) schrieb Rusi Mody:
> >>> This is on debian.
> >>> I have texlive-fonts-extra package installed which claims to have XIT font.
> >>> So one narrow, one broad question:
> >>> - How to get this to work?
> >>> - Does xe{la}tex really work or is it best to stay with good ol latex?
> >> Works fine on windows in miktex and texlive 2013/2014. Probably your
> >> texsystem is outdated. Or missing some fonts.
> > Apt shows the texlive version as 2013.20140408-1
> > And I can see this
> > $ pwd
> > /usr/share/texlive/texmf-dist/fonts/opentype/public/xits
> > $ ls
> > xits-bolditalic.otf xits-bold.otf xits-italic.otf xits-mathbold.otf xits-math.otf xits-regular.otf
> > So any suggestions how does one start to debug font-finding issues?
> Try the following:
> sudo cp $(kpsewhich --var-value
> TEXMFSYSVAR)/fonts/conf/texlive-fontconfig.conf
> /etc/fonts/conf.d/09-texlive.conf
/var/lib/texmf
$ cd $(kpsewhich --var-value TEXMFSYSVAR)
$ cd fonts/
$ ls
map
## IOW no conf directory here
Rolf Niepraschk
Jun 3, 2014, 3:08:19 PM6/3/14
to
Am 03.06.2014 19:44, schrieb Rusi Mody:
...
...
>
>> Try the following:
>
>> sudo cp $(kpsewhich --var-value
>> TEXMFSYSVAR)/fonts/conf/texlive-fontconfig.conf
>> /etc/fonts/conf.d/09-texlive.conf
>
> $ kpsewhich --var-value TEXMFSYSVAR
> /var/lib/texmf
>
> $ cd $(kpsewhich --var-value TEXMFSYSVAR)
> $ cd fonts/
> $ ls
> map
> ## IOW no conf directory here
>
Then search for texlive-fontconfig.conf manually.
>> Try the following:
>
>> sudo cp $(kpsewhich --var-value
>> TEXMFSYSVAR)/fonts/conf/texlive-fontconfig.conf
>> /etc/fonts/conf.d/09-texlive.conf
>
> $ kpsewhich --var-value TEXMFSYSVAR
> /var/lib/texmf
>
> $ cd $(kpsewhich --var-value TEXMFSYSVAR)
> $ cd fonts/
> $ ls
> map
> ## IOW no conf directory here
>
Rusi Mody
Jun 3, 2014, 10:38:36 PM6/3/14
to
On Wednesday, June 4, 2014 12:38:19 AM UTC+5:30, Rolf Niepraschk wrote:
> Am 03.06.2014 19:44, schrieb Rusi Mody:
> ...
> Am 03.06.2014 19:44, schrieb Rusi Mody:
> ...
> > ## IOW no conf directory here
> Then search for texlive-fontconfig.conf manually.
> ...Rolf
Thanks Rolf... But no luck!
> Then search for texlive-fontconfig.conf manually.
> ...Rolf
$ sudo find / -name texlive-fontconfig.conf
$
Likewise:
$ locate texlive-fontconfig.conf
$
So its not there on my system as far as I can see.
I filed a bug report in debian's texlive:
https://www.mail-archive.com/debian-b...@lists.debian.org/msg1226033.html
The bug was immediately closed saying
| upstream TeX Live, (is) not Debian/TeX Live.
| :
| :
| Debian/TeX Live doe snot (sic) provision for this.
Its good to come back to where I started!
As a noob I find this basic example containing:
\setmathfont{XITS Math}
It does not work. After lot of struggle I find that
\setmathfont{xits-math.otf}
works.
Obviously its no big deal -- after the fact! The issue is that I am a
newbie, and if basic/hello-world examples dont work without
mysterious/advanced/unexplained transformations...
So if the verdict is that Debian Texlive is not upto serious usage of
[La]tex, maybe I should just do the 2G download of CTAN Tex??
eg My example uses \setmathfont{...} .
None of the 3 Latex books I have nor the fontguide
http://www.latex-project.org/guides/fntguide.pdf
seem to have anything on that!!
giacomo boffi
Jun 5, 2014, 9:59:09 AM6/5/14
to
On 06/04/2014 04:38 AM, Rusi Mody wrote:
> $ locate texlive-fontconfig.conf
> $
% sudo echo '<?xml version="1.0"?>
<!DOCTYPE fontconfig SYSTEM "fonts.dtd">
<fontconfig>
<dir>/usr/share/texlive/texmf-dist/fonts/opentype</dir>
<dir>/usr/share/texlive/texmf-dist/fonts/truetype</dir>
<dir>/usr/share/texlive/texmf-dist/fonts/type1</dir>
</fontconfig>' > /etc/fonts/conf.avail/09-texlive.conf
% sudo ln -s /etc/fonts/conf.avail/09-texlive.conf \
/etc/fonts/conf.d/09-texlive.conf
% fc-cache -rv % or sudo fc-cache -rvs
hth
> $ locate texlive-fontconfig.conf
> $
% sudo echo '<?xml version="1.0"?>
<!DOCTYPE fontconfig SYSTEM "fonts.dtd">
<fontconfig>
<dir>/usr/share/texlive/texmf-dist/fonts/opentype</dir>
<dir>/usr/share/texlive/texmf-dist/fonts/truetype</dir>
<dir>/usr/share/texlive/texmf-dist/fonts/type1</dir>
</fontconfig>' > /etc/fonts/conf.avail/09-texlive.conf
% sudo ln -s /etc/fonts/conf.avail/09-texlive.conf \
/etc/fonts/conf.d/09-texlive.conf
% fc-cache -rv % or sudo fc-cache -rvs
hth
Rusi Mody
Jun 5, 2014, 11:14:58 AM6/5/14
to
On Thursday, June 5, 2014 7:29:09 PM UTC+5:30, giacomo boffi wrote:
> On 06/04/2014 04:38 AM, Rusi Mody wrote:
> > $ locate texlive-fontconfig.conf
> > $
> On 06/04/2014 04:38 AM, Rusi Mody wrote:
> > $ locate texlive-fontconfig.conf
> > $
> </fontconfig>' > /etc/fonts/conf.avail/09-texlive.conf
> % sudo ln -s /etc/fonts/conf.avail/09-texlive.conf \
> /etc/fonts/conf.d/09-texlive.conf
> % fc-cache -rv % or sudo fc-cache -rvs
> hth
Ok Did that.
> % sudo ln -s /etc/fonts/conf.avail/09-texlive.conf \
> /etc/fonts/conf.d/09-texlive.conf
> % fc-cache -rv % or sudo fc-cache -rvs
> hth
In fact I did it in my way: [In case someone else sees this]
1. Make a file /etc/fonts/conf.avail/09-texlive.conf containing
-------
<!DOCTYPE fontconfig SYSTEM "fonts.dtd">
<fontconfig>
<dir>/usr/share/texlive/texmf-dist/fonts/opentype</dir>
<dir>/usr/share/texlive/texmf-dist/fonts/truetype</dir>
<dir>/usr/share/texlive/texmf-dist/fonts/type1</dir>
</fontconfig>
-------
<fontconfig>
<dir>/usr/share/texlive/texmf-dist/fonts/opentype</dir>
<dir>/usr/share/texlive/texmf-dist/fonts/truetype</dir>
<dir>/usr/share/texlive/texmf-dist/fonts/type1</dir>
</fontconfig>
2. Make the soft-link:
ln -s /etc/fonts/conf.avail/09-texlive.conf /etc/fonts/conf.d/09-texlive.conf
3. Run fc-cache -rv
Now my original file works without the original error.
So thanks Giacomo for that!
However I am none the wiser for what is happening!!
Just to make my original points again:
1. I would like to have a system where things given in standard tutorials
work as given without arcane system tweaks.
In particular, I dont know whether the magic you have done (made me do!)
makes my one-off example go from non-working to working or does it actually
make my texlive more standard-texlive compliant?
2. I would like to understand more about fonts with tex and particularly xetex
I am having a hell of a time figuring out what is setmathfont.
The closest I can find is at
http://mirrors.ibiblio.org/CTAN/macros/xetex/latex/mathspec/mathspec.pdf
Should I know about mathspec/Am I using mathspec? I have no idea
3. I am using xelatex in Debian's texlive. Is this a sane/sound choice?
My vague impressions:
- Debian Texlive is halfassed
- Xe[La]tex is somewhat stable but poorly documented
More expert views would be valuable!
Ulrike Fischer
Jun 6, 2014, 4:47:11 AM6/6/14
to
Am Tue, 3 Jun 2014 05:58:15 -0700 (PDT) schrieb Rusi Mody:
> So what's TEXMFSYSVAR then?
Try on the command line:
> So what's TEXMFSYSVAR then?
kpsewhich --var-value=TEXMFSYSVAR
> And/or is it enough reason to junk the debian packaged texlive and directly
> go for a CTAN one?
have experience with either way.
> For obvious reasons I'd like to avoid that :D
application directly.
François Patte
Jun 6, 2014, 5:17:44 AM6/6/14
to
Le 06/06/2014 10:47, Ulrike Fischer a �crit :
whole system.... They will do this up to the day their TeX install will
be completely stimmied because of a bug in an updated share library!
Mostly, this will happen at the eve of the dead line for submissing an
important paper!
--
Fran�ois Patte
Universit� Paris Descartes
> Am Tue, 3 Jun 2014 05:58:15 -0700 (PDT) schrieb Rusi Mody:
>> So what's TEXMFSYSVAR then?
>
>
>> So what's TEXMFSYSVAR then?
>
>
>> For obvious reasons I'd like to avoid that :D
>
> As a windows user I don't understand the reluctance to install an
> application directly.
>
>
Because linux users want to use the distro updater which updates the
>
> As a windows user I don't understand the reluctance to install an
> application directly.
>
>
whole system.... They will do this up to the day their TeX install will
be completely stimmied because of a bug in an updated share library!
Mostly, this will happen at the eve of the dead line for submissing an
important paper!
--
Fran�ois Patte
Universit� Paris Descartes
giacomo boffi
Jun 6, 2014, 5:18:28 AM6/6/14
to
On 06/05/2014 05:14 PM, Rusi Mody wrote:
> Just to make my original points again:
>
> 1. I would like to have a system where things given in standard tutorials
> work as given without arcane system tweaks.
lua{,la}tex and xe{,la}tex promise to access the system fonts using the
> Just to make my original points again:
>
> 1. I would like to have a system where things given in standard tutorials
> work as given without arcane system tweaks.
standard font search mechanism, and this works in most TeX distributions
Debian's TeX maintainers don't want (you know this better than me...) to
make fontconfig, the standard font search mechanism on linux, aware of
the fonts they provide
I suppose that they have what they call good reasons for that, and I'm
pretty sure their rationale is documented somewhere
If someone feels like campaigning to get them to do the right thing,
I'll be happy when s/he succeeds, but I'll never try again to change the
mind of a Debian maintainer :)
> In particular, I dont know whether the magic you have done (made me do!)
> makes my one-off example go from non-working to working or does it actually
> make my texlive more standard-texlive compliant?
its fonts available system wide, and I think/hope it's the correct way
of installing new fonts in fontconfig for all users
afaik, this is the Debian's way of installing new fonts,
Debian docs say you shall install new fonts only using apt
and yes... now you can use all the otf ttf and postscript fonts in your
texlive
btw, you've always been able to use them, but using the kpathsea
mechanism, as you've found by yourself
> [...]
> 3. I am using xelatex in Debian's texlive. Is this a sane/sound choice?
> My vague impressions:
> - Debian Texlive is halfassed
no, the situation was really bad until a couple years ago, but then the
> My vague impressions:
> - Debian Texlive is halfassed
texlive people straightened out (what in the eyes of Debian texlive
maintainers was) the mess of the different licenses and the situation is
much better...
I used to have a non debian texlive install, via tlmgr, now I use
Debian's packages --- imo it isn't perfect but fullassed it is
Ulrike Fischer
Jun 6, 2014, 6:41:12 AM6/6/14
to
Am Fri, 06 Jun 2014 11:17:44 +0200 schrieb Fran�ois Patte:
>>> For obvious reasons I'd like to avoid that :D
>> As a windows user I don't understand the reluctance to install an
>> application directly.
> Because linux users want to use the distro updater which updates the
> whole system.... They will do this up to the day their TeX install will
> be completely stimmied because of a bug in an updated share library!
> Mostly, this will happen at the eve of the dead line for submissing an
> important paper!
People that update at the eve of a dead line get what they deserves
>>> For obvious reasons I'd like to avoid that :D
>> As a windows user I don't understand the reluctance to install an
>> application directly.
> Because linux users want to use the distro updater which updates the
> whole system.... They will do this up to the day their TeX install will
> be completely stimmied because of a bug in an updated share library!
> Mostly, this will happen at the eve of the dead line for submissing an
> important paper!
-- and this is true with windows too. I would never click on an
update button if I'm under pressure.
Axel Berger
Jun 6, 2014, 8:13:17 AM6/6/14
to
Ulrike Fischer wrote:
> I would never click on an
> update button if I'm under pressure.
I've no experience with Debian, but in newer Windows' updates often
> I would never click on an
> update button if I'm under pressure.
happen automatically in the background without the user doing anything.
Sometimes this can be disabled, but it nearly always is the dafault.
(One of many reasons, why I stick to the extremely old.)
Often enough I see updates and installs happening or throwing errors
right in the middle of someone's presentation, this on computers
maintained by paid administrators.
Axel
Rusi Mody
Jun 6, 2014, 12:40:36 PM6/6/14
to
As does its accuracy gives pleasure!
Rusi Mody
Jun 6, 2014, 12:52:10 PM6/6/14
to
On Friday, June 6, 2014 2:48:28 PM UTC+5:30, giacomo boffi wrote:
> On 06/05/2014 05:14 PM, Rusi Mody wrote:
> > Just to make my original points again:
> > 1. I would like to have a system where things given in standard tutorials
> > work as given without arcane system tweaks.
> lua{,la}tex and xe{,la}tex promise to access the system fonts using the
> standard font search mechanism, and this works in most TeX distributions
> Debian's TeX maintainers don't want (you know this better than me...) to
> make fontconfig, the standard font search mechanism on linux, aware of
> the fonts they provide
> I suppose that they have what they call good reasons for that, and I'm
> pretty sure their rationale is documented somewhere
> If someone feels like campaigning to get them to do the right thing,
> I'll be happy when s/he succeeds, but I'll never try again to change the
> mind of a Debian maintainer :)
Ive done my due diligence: Debian bug 750468
> On 06/05/2014 05:14 PM, Rusi Mody wrote:
> > Just to make my original points again:
> > 1. I would like to have a system where things given in standard tutorials
> > work as given without arcane system tweaks.
> lua{,la}tex and xe{,la}tex promise to access the system fonts using the
> standard font search mechanism, and this works in most TeX distributions
> Debian's TeX maintainers don't want (you know this better than me...) to
> make fontconfig, the standard font search mechanism on linux, aware of
> the fonts they provide
> I suppose that they have what they call good reasons for that, and I'm
> pretty sure their rationale is documented somewhere
> If someone feels like campaigning to get them to do the right thing,
> I'll be happy when s/he succeeds, but I'll never try again to change the
> mind of a Debian maintainer :)
https://lists.debian.org/debian-tex-maint/2014/06/msg00036.html
> > In particular, I dont know whether the magic you have done (made me do!)
> > makes my one-off example go from non-working to working or does it actually
> > make my texlive more standard-texlive compliant?
> The magic is not so magic, it's just what tlmgr do when you ask to make
> its fonts available system wide, and I think/hope it's the correct way
> of installing new fonts in fontconfig for all users
> afaik, this is the Debian's way of installing new fonts,
> Debian docs say you shall install new fonts only using apt
> and yes... now you can use all the otf ttf and postscript fonts in your
> texlive
> btw, you've always been able to use them, but using the kpathsea
> mechanism, as you've found by yourself
> > [...]
> > 3. I am using xelatex in Debian's texlive. Is this a sane/sound choice?
> > My vague impressions:
> > - Debian Texlive is halfassed
> no, the situation was really bad until a couple years ago, but then the
> texlive people straightened out (what in the eyes of Debian texlive
> maintainers was) the mess of the different licenses and the situation is
> much better...
> I used to have a non debian texlive install, via tlmgr, now I use
> Debian's packages --- imo it isn't perfect but fullassed it is
For now I'll stop fretting over the installation and see if
I can get basic things working.
And thanks to all for their help(s)
François Patte
Jun 6, 2014, 6:01:47 PM6/6/14
to
people think on user lists: "my distro is the best one and everything
else is awfull..." And I could observe some disasters!
As for the this thread you launched, I don't understand why apt-get did
not the job: mktexlsr, fc-cache... and the whole stuff which is done by
tlmgr....
Rusi Mody
Jun 6, 2014, 8:55:36 PM6/6/14
to
On Saturday, June 7, 2014 3:31:47 AM UTC+5:30, frpatte wrote:
> Le 06/06/2014 18:40, Rusi Mody a écrit :
> > On Friday, June 6, 2014 2:47:44 PM UTC+5:30, frpatte wrote:
> >> Le 06/06/2014 10:47, Ulrike Fischer a �crit :
> >>> Am Tue, 3 Jun 2014 05:58:15 -0700 (PDT) schrieb Rusi Mody:
> >>>> So what's TEXMFSYSVAR then?
> >>>> For obvious reasons I'd like to avoid that :D
> >>> As a windows user I don't understand the reluctance to install an
> >>> application directly.
> >> Because linux users want to use the distro updater which updates the
> >> whole system.... They will do this up to the day their TeX install will
> >> be completely stimmied because of a bug in an updated share library!
> >> Mostly, this will happen at the eve of the dead line for submissing an
> >> important paper!
> > Your sarcasm gives pain, Monsieur!
> > As does its accuracy gives pleasure!
> I'm not sarcastic! I'm a linux user (debian) and I can observe how
> people think on user lists: "my distro is the best one and everything
> else is awfull..." And I could observe some disasters!
Ahh! My land, my country, my religion, my people, my culture, my language
> Le 06/06/2014 18:40, Rusi Mody a écrit :
> > On Friday, June 6, 2014 2:47:44 PM UTC+5:30, frpatte wrote:
> >> Le 06/06/2014 10:47, Ulrike Fischer a �crit :
> >>> Am Tue, 3 Jun 2014 05:58:15 -0700 (PDT) schrieb Rusi Mody:
> >>>> So what's TEXMFSYSVAR then?
> >>>> For obvious reasons I'd like to avoid that :D
> >>> As a windows user I don't understand the reluctance to install an
> >>> application directly.
> >> Because linux users want to use the distro updater which updates the
> >> whole system.... They will do this up to the day their TeX install will
> >> be completely stimmied because of a bug in an updated share library!
> >> Mostly, this will happen at the eve of the dead line for submissing an
> >> important paper!
> > Your sarcasm gives pain, Monsieur!
> > As does its accuracy gives pleasure!
> I'm not sarcastic! I'm a linux user (debian) and I can observe how
> people think on user lists: "my distro is the best one and everything
> else is awfull..." And I could observe some disasters!
The source of much [all??] grief in the world... including my distro.
A discussion for another list another time...
> As for the this thread you launched, I don't understand why apt-get did
> not the job: mktexlsr, fc-cache... and the whole stuff which is done by
> tlmgr....
Debian is good [I wont say "the best one"!] because of its packaging system.
Part of that is technical — deb-format, apt repos etc.
Part is social — the manner in which packages can (and cannot) enter, allowed
licences etc.
Texlive is a large system. Large enough to spawn its own packaging
system — tlmgr. When texlive is inducted into debian one gets a clash
of package managers. If texlive's tlmgr were allowed free rein, it
would break a lot of debian policy. In the end that (threatens to)
break debian.
One day maybe, people will have federated package managers — apt and tlmgr
cooperating with each other. That day is not here yet. So we vanilla users
have to figure out what works and stay with that choice
Robin Fairbairns
Jun 9, 2014, 11:20:14 AM6/9/14
to
Axel Berger <Axel....@Gmx.De> writes:
> Ulrike Fischer wrote:
>> I would never click on an
>> update button if I'm under pressure.
many people, in many situations, find updates happening without them
> Ulrike Fischer wrote:
>> I would never click on an
>> update button if I'm under pressure.
even touching the computer. in a well-managed setup, this should only
happen in advertised "vulnerable periods".
in this department, we encourage people _not_ to update without checking
with us (the sysadmins) first. even so, we get occasional people saying
they've done it, and now their computer doesn't work.
> I've no experience with Debian, but in newer Windows' updates often
> happen automatically in the background without the user doing anything.
> Sometimes this can be disabled, but it nearly always is the dafault.
> (One of many reasons, why I stick to the extremely old.)
you're between the devil of the bugs you know about, and the deep blue
sea of bugs you've never heard of before.
> Often enough I see updates and installs happening or throwing errors
> right in the middle of someone's presentation, this on computers
> maintained by paid administrators.
i was once chairing a session at a tug conference, and one speaker spent
all but about 5 minutes of his allocated slot struggling to make the
computer he'd borrowed actually project his slides.
--
Robin Fairbairns, Cambridge
Axel Berger
Jun 10, 2014, 6:17:23 PM6/10/14
to
François Patte wrote:
> "my distro is the best one and everything else is awfull..."
I don't think that's it and I don't have a fixed opinion whether one
> "my distro is the best one and everything else is awfull..."
central updater for everything is a good thing or not. But if people use
a system that has one of those, I can well understand them wanting to
stick to it and not doing things behind its back, because as far as I
have picked up that may well lead to endless trouble later.
Axel
Rusi Mody
Jun 11, 2014, 1:17:11 AM6/11/14
to
These 'central updater' systems work quite well...
Upto a point!!
After that??? Things are:
- Broken
- Obsolete
- Simply not there
- etc
at which point one needs to:
- get standalone executables
- build from source
- which sometimes requires building other prerequisites and so
making up a whole small world on the way
So using a modern OS in a modern way entails figuring out how much of the
system to use as given, how much to tweak, and how much to graft from other
systems.
Note that for large systems -- like texlive -- this is more the norm than the
exception. I can think of at least 5 systems in the last few years that
Ive needed to deal with that had to address this question:
python, haskell, ruby, eclipse and now texlive
It should be simple enough to deal with this were it not for human egos:
each side stoutly claiming that their packaging is the best and refusing to
see the advantages/disadvantages of both sides.
Robin Fairbairns
Jun 11, 2014, 5:51:57 AM6/11/14
to
Rusi Mody <rusto...@gmail.com> writes:
> On Wednesday, June 11, 2014 3:47:23 AM UTC+5:30, Axel Berger wrote:
> On Wednesday, June 11, 2014 3:47:23 AM UTC+5:30, Axel Berger wrote:
so it's "horses for courses". if you are adept with windows, and have
the privileges to change things (like ulrike) you would know to tailor
any system to "perfection" _for you_.
for most of my users, the base system is linux, and a good proportion
are more _au fait_ with that than i am; if one of them reports a problem
i tend to offer a work-around that doesn't attempt to subvert all of the
pre-installed tex live (which tends to be out of date).
--
Robin Fairbairns, Cambridge
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