Helvetica substitution
Juha Häikiö
no luck. Is it possible to define the substitution
font for Helvetica in Distiller? Distiller defaults
Helvetica -> Arial, and in printers' font substitution
tables you can only select fonts to be substituted out
of those installed in the system, not unknown ones.
I managed to change the default font of Illustrator,
so I can handle the eps graphs using Helvetica with it.
But Illustrator seems to mangle the text positions of
the GNU Plot PS graphs. So, I'll have to go with a
.ps -> .pdf -> .ai way and change the fonts manually in
Illustrator.
I was just wondering could the font be changed already
in the .ps -> .pdf phase?
--
Juha Häikiö
Aandi Inston
>I tried to find an answer to this from Google, with
>no luck. Is it possible to define the substitution
>font for Helvetica in Distiller? Distiller defaults
>Helvetica -> Arial
Distiller doesn't substitute fonts at all. It just records the font
name used. So far as I know (what makes you believe it does?)
What you might be seeing is
* substution in the application as part of printing the PostScript
* substitution in a printer driver (Acrobat Distiller or Adobe PDF
driver)
* substitution in Acrobat when displaying the file
----------------------------------------
Aandi Inston
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Juha Häikiö
> "Juha Häikiö" <no....@sven.a.invalid> wrote:
>
>> I tried to find an answer to this from Google, with
>> no luck. Is it possible to define the substitution
>> font for Helvetica in Distiller? Distiller defaults
>> Helvetica -> Arial
>
> Distiller doesn't substitute fonts at all. It just records the font
> name used. So far as I know (what makes you believe it does?)
This. Distiller log files say:
%%[ Warning: Helvetica not found, using Font Substitution. Font cannot be
embedded. ]%%
> What you might be seeing is
> * substution in the application as part of printing the PostScript
> * substitution in a printer driver (Acrobat Distiller or Adobe PDF
> driver)
> * substitution in Acrobat when displaying the file
When I open the created PDF in Illustrator, the font is
shown as 'Arial' in the document font list. When I open an
EPS created by GnuPlot, AI notifies that Helvetica is not
available, it uses some other font for the the display, and
the font list shows 'Helvetica' with an asterisk (missing
font).
The font is actually missing (not embedded) in both
cases. This is what Acrobat tells about fonts in the PDF:
Helvetica
Type: Type 1
Encoding: Ansi
Actual Font: ArialMT
Actual Font Type: Type 1
So, there is no way to tell "Use Univers as the 'Actual
Font', not ArialMT"? But I guess I'll just have to set it
manually in Illustrator.
--
Juha Häikiö
k...@spamcop.net
no....@sven.a.invalid says...
> > Distiller doesn't substitute fonts at all. It just records the font
> > name used. So far as I know (what makes you believe it does?)
>
> This. Distiller log files say:
>
> %%[ Warning: Helvetica not found, using Font Substitution. Font cannot be
> embedded. ]%%
That's pretty fatal. Helvetica is one of the base fonts and always
assumed to be present, Acrobat ships with a definition of this font, its
absence suggests that your installation is broken.
Note that Distiller is not (from the log you quote) substituting
Helvetica for another font, its telling you it has a problem with
Helvetica which the PostScript file is (apparently) trying to use.
It then goes on to say that it is using Font Substitution (possibly
creating a synthetic font, its not obvious to me) and that the font
'cannot be embedded', which is fine because it'll then create a PDF file
which has the font name, but no definition of it.
It is possible that the PostScript program is doing something itself in
the way of checking for the availability of fonts and trying to do its
own substitution, this is legal, though possibly undesirable. You have
to be careful with PostScript, its a programming language....
> When I open the created PDF in Illustrator, the font is
> shown as 'Arial' in the document font list.
That really only tells you that Illustrator is using Arial as a
substitute for the missing font. That's quite reasonable, Arial is a
pretty good substitute for Helvetica.
> The font is actually missing (not embedded) in both
> cases. This is what Acrobat tells about fonts in the PDF:
>
> Helvetica
> Type: Type 1
> Encoding: Ansi
> Actual Font: ArialMT
> Actual Font Type: Type 1
So Acrobat says that the PDF file is using Helvetica (which is what
Illustrator confirmed from your EPS), that it doesn't have a definition
of Helvetica to use (there isn't one in the file) and its using Arial
for the prupose of display, just like Illustrator.
> So, there is no way to tell "Use Univers as the 'Actual
> Font', not ArialMT"? But I guess I'll just have to set it
> manually in Illustrator.
Can't really see the problem. It looks to me like your EPS is using
Helvetica, and for some reason neither your Acrobat nor Illustrator
applications have the font available. If this is the case you need to
alter the EPS file, not the application.
The only substitution I see fomr your description is Illustrator
substituting Arial for Helvetica.
Of course I could be wrong, without seeing the EPS its rather hard to be
sure, but I don't see a problem here.
Ken
Aandi Inston
>Aandi Inston wrote:
>> "Juha Häikiö" <no....@sven.a.invalid> wrote:
>>
>>> I tried to find an answer to this from Google, with
>>> no luck. Is it possible to define the substitution
>>> font for Helvetica in Distiller? Distiller defaults
>>> Helvetica -> Arial
>>
>> Distiller doesn't substitute fonts at all. It just records the font
>> name used. So far as I know (what makes you believe it does?)
>
>This. Distiller log files say:
>
>%%[ Warning: Helvetica not found, using Font Substitution. Font cannot be
>embedded. ]%%
What is happening here is that Distiller can't find Helvetica, so it
cannot embed it. Also, since it doesn't have the font, it has to use a
substitute set of measurements instead.
You should still see Helvetica as the font name stored in the PDF. Of
course if you don't own Helvetica (and it no longer ships with
Acrobat), it can't display it either, and this is the point at which
Arial will probably get substituted.
There's nothing to change or fix in Distiller.
>
>The font is actually missing (not embedded) in both
>cases. This is what Acrobat tells about fonts in the PDF:
>
>Helvetica
> Type: Type 1
> Encoding: Ansi
> Actual Font: ArialMT
> Actual Font Type: Type 1
Exactly. See the first line? It says it is Helvetica.
The choice of ArialMT is not stored anywhere in the PDF. Take this to
a computer with a type 1 Helvetica font, and it will use it. Since you
don't have it, Acrobat makes the substutution, there and then.
>
>So, there is no way to tell "Use Univers as the 'Actual
>Font', not ArialMT"? But I guess I'll just have to set it
>manually in Illustrator.
Illustrator is presumably substututing as well. It will have its own
rules, entirely separate from Acrobat's.
Michael Unger
> [...]
>
> The choice of ArialMT is not stored anywhere in the PDF. Take this to
> a computer with a type 1 Helvetica font, and it will use it. Since you
> don't have it, Acrobat makes the substutution, there and then.
>
> [...]
Is there any _documented_ rule *how* this substitution is done? I've
seen many times:
"Helvetica" --> "MS Arial"
"Times" --> "MS Times New Roman"
but:
Linotype "Syntax" (sans-serif!) --> "Adobe Serif MM"
when the required fonts are neither embedded (as a subset) nor available
locally.
Michael
--
Real names enhance the probability of getting real answers.
My e-mail account at DECUS Munich is no longer valid.
k...@spamcop.net
spam.t...@spamgourmet.com says...
> Is there any _documented_ rule *how* this substitution is done? I've
> seen many times:
Documented, I think not.
> "Helvetica" --> "MS Arial"
> "Times" --> "MS Times New Roman"
These are the TrueType equivalents shipped with Windows systems (don't
know about Macs) for the old 'base 14' font families (35 fonts IIRC).
Its reasonable to substitute those, if they are available, which they
normally will be.
> but:
>
> Linotype "Syntax" (sans-serif!) --> "Adobe Serif MM"
>
> when the required fonts are neither embedded (as a subset) nor available
> locally.
I think you've answered your own question there. The fonts you note at
the top *are* available locally. They may not have exactly the same
names, but they are the same. The fonts which are not available locally
get a synthetic font manufactured form a Multiple Master.
It might be interesting to run open the same files on a Mac and see what
fonts get substituted for Helvetica and Times. Or Linux for that matter.
Ken
Aandi Inston
>Is there any _documented_ rule *how* this substitution is done?
No. This is why you should embed all fonts if you really care.
> I've seen many times:
>
>"Helvetica" --> "MS Arial"
>"Times" --> "MS Times New Roman"
These are good commonsense subsitutitions if there is no exact match.
There is a table somewhere. Bear in mind this is a table in the
viewing application, so Acrobat and Illustrator, to name but two, will
have completely different tables.
>
>but:
>
>Linotype "Syntax" (sans-serif!) --> "Adobe Serif MM"
These (two) Adobe MM fonts are the generic substitution fonts, used
where the font is not embedded, not in the system, and there isn't one
of the (undocumented) special rules used.
Juha Häikiö
> Michael Unger <spam.t...@spamgourmet.com> wrote:
>
>> Is there any _documented_ rule *how* this substitution is done?
>
> No. This is why you should embed all fonts if you really care.
>
>> I've seen many times:
>>
>> "Helvetica" --> "MS Arial"
>> "Times" --> "MS Times New Roman"
>
> These are good commonsense subsitutitions if there is no exact match.
> There is a table somewhere. Bear in mind this is a table in the
> viewing application, so Acrobat and Illustrator, to name but two, will
> have completely different tables.
That was kind of what I was after: the font substitution
behaviour seems to be built in the software. Illustrator
with factory settings uses Myriad as the default font,
missing fonts are substituted with that. The default font
should be defined in its startup files. But no user settings
in Distiller/Acrobat for that.
--
Juha Häikiö
Michael Unger
> Michael Unger <spam.t...@spamgourmet.com> wrote:
>
>>Is there any _documented_ rule *how* this substitution is done?
>
> No. This is why you should embed all fonts if you really care.
That's what I do all the time anyway ...
> [...]
>
>>but:
>>
>>Linotype "Syntax" (sans-serif!) --> "Adobe Serif MM"
>
> These (two) Adobe MM fonts are the generic substitution fonts, used
> where the font is not embedded, not in the system, and there isn't one
> of the (undocumented) special rules used.
What puzzles me is that a *sans-serif* font gets substituted by a
*serif* font in this case. (I'm aware of both "AdobeSerifMM" and
"AdobeSansMM".)
Aandi Inston
>What puzzles me is that a *sans-serif* font gets substituted by a
>*serif* font in this case. (I'm aware of both "AdobeSerifMM" and
>"AdobeSansMM".)
Distiller has to store information about the font into the PDF file,
for cases where it doesn't embed.
This obviously includes the font metrics (character spacing) as
otherwise the results wouldn't work at all. These are always
accurately known. But the other information about fonts has to be
derived from a variety of guesswork.
Given a set of outlines, how to decide if they are serif or sans
serif? Maybe there is a default, or maybe some simple test is done
like "how many lines are there in capital I?". If the font was, for
example, known to be a Windows font, Windows itself will supply this
information (assuming that it is installed, and that the font designer
filled it in correctly).
For Adobe's own fonts, a special database of font properties helps
with more accurate substitution. In other cases, it may just not be
available.