responses to wkstation query

[Mary Ellen Foley]

Twelve people responded to my request for information about Xerox
workstations. Most people didn't indicate which workstation hardware
they are using, so I can't give the rundown somebody asked for, about
how many Altos and Stars are out there. Several people mentioned that
they used the 1186/6085, and/or the 1108.

* In general, people who use them for desktop publishing said they were
the greatest thing on the market, and people who use(d) them for AI
applications think they stink. There were 2 Lisp developers who said
they "loved" the Xerox workstations, but the opposition was quite vocal.

* People who did like the workstations generally liked the development
environment and complained about lack of speed.

* One person (who has my sympathy!) had a long list of horror stories
about upgrades that never worked, paid-for SW that never arrived, etc.

* Several people expressed concern that the management doesn't know what
it's doing, at least as far as selling and supporting computers

* Several people mentioned that Xerox is starting to put its software
on the SPARC, and they thought that was a good idea (sigh...why doesn't
anybody but ME really like *APOLLOS*!!?!?!)

* A few Xerox employees wrote to say that Xerox is a good place to work.

* A couple of people cited "The Xerox Star: A Retrospective", Jeff Johnson et al,
IEEE Computer, Sept 1989. That turned out to be a VERY useful article.

Some sample quotes (names withheld, most people didn't want their names
mentioned)

>> Xerox workstations are, as far as I can tell, just about dead. At least
>> for AI applications; I suppose they still do okay in the word processing
>> market, though I expect Macs are giving them a hard row to hoe there, too.

>> The system is effortless to
>> use and to learn to use: we have trained ... people to use our Xerox
>> network as their primary office tool in an average of four hours of
>> classroom time each.

>> In summary, unless you are doing research at PARC or selling copiers, I would
>> suggest a really close look at Xerox, unless you thrive on frustration. I don't
>> think Xerox wants to sell computers. All the AI stuff from Envos is going over
>> to Sun platforms now, anyway. I don't bet on the demand staying around for
>> dedicated word processors either.

>> A number cruncher she ain't. As a publishing platform it lacks only speed.
>> The software however, is virtually idiot proof.

>> In terms of hardware reliability, they're not so great.
>> But the Xerox Interlisp environment is the best environment in the
>> world, bar none, when it comes to software development.

>> When putting your AI-glasses the 1186 is
>> called A Lisp-machine, otherwise it is a plain workstation. It has come to
>> age over the years and is no longer performance competitive, though.

SUMMARY --> I took the job, and so I soon have a first-hand perspective.

Thanks to all who responded, and especially to those who pointed me toward
the IEEE Computer article, that was really great.

mef
--
WARNING: Opinions in posting are farther away than they appear.

[Lee Moore]

The Altos that were at the U. of Rochester went to the Computer Science
House (CSH) at the Rochester Institute of Technology (RIT). CSH is a specialty
dorm for those interested in computers.

Lee Moore -- Xerox Webster Research Center -- +1 716 422 2496
UUCP: {allegra, cornell, decvax, rutgers}!rochester!rocksanne!lee
Arpa Internet: Moore....@Xerox.Com

[Lee Moore]

[RP Sobek]

Hi,

Do you still have any 1186 available for me ??? Or know where one might still be ??

--Ralph

[Al Kossow]

On 4/11/18 6:07 AM, RP Sobek wrote:

> Do you still have any 1186 available for me ???

replying to 30 year old messages is pointless.

what are you willing to pay for a working 1186?

[RP Sobek]

Not sure yet? What do you think it is worth now ???

Somebody once offered me a garage full of 1186's and 6085's but I lost the lady's email address !! All I know is that she is East Coast and she recovered them from her University!

Is yours with those LISP ROMs ??

I am in France now! Is that OK???

Take care,

--Ralph

[Al Kossow]

On 5/12/18 12:13 PM, Huge wrote:

>> Is yours with those LISP ROMs ??

1108s or 1109s could have an EPROM which supported 80mb Quantum 2080 disk drives.
as Hugh mentioned, there was nothing unique between the 6085 and 1186 beyond the
keyboard and 3-button mouse.

I don't think Interlisp or Smalltalk were supported on 6085-II CPUs though, but
those machines are very rare.

[RP Sobek]

The 1186 had the possibility of having an EEPROM installed! Mine had!

Al, How many 1186's do you have???