Please help a poorly Microvax 3100
Roger Woodward
ive got a microvax 3100, but no documentation on decoding problems on
bootup.
The machine siezed up with hyroglyphical chars streaming on one line on the
terminal and no input seemingly possible either via the keyboard or accross
a network connection. Having let it cool down completely I switched it back
on and...
On boot I get the following:
KA41-0 V1.0
F_..E...D...C... and so on to ...3...2_..1...
? C 0080 0000.4001
83 BOOT SYS
-DKB700-
then some standard boot info until
The VAX/VMS system is now executing the system startup procedure.
SYSGEN-W-OPENIN error opening STS$COMMON.[SYSEXE]ZSDRIVER.EXE as input.
Then further display is in hyroglyphics (u umlauts, backwards ?, A umlauts
etc) and nothing resonds.
If I reboot straight away I dont get any output to the terminal at all
though I can hear the disk presumably going through various checks until all
goes (relatively) quiet again.
Any guesses as to the problem and if so whether it might be fixable, and are
there any good resources on the web that can give good pointers in these
sorts of situations.
Thanks for any pointers.
Cheers
Roger
Dirk Munk
Roger Woodward wrote:
>
> hi,
> ive got a microvax 3100, but no documentation on decoding problems on
> bootup.
>
> The machine siezed up with hyroglyphical chars streaming on one line on the
> terminal and no input seemingly possible either via the keyboard or accross
> a network connection. Having let it cool down completely I switched it back
> on and...
>
> On boot I get the following:
>
> KA41-0 V1.0
>
> F_..E...D...C... and so on to ...3...2_..1...
>
> ? C 0080 0000.4001
This last message means there is something wrong. Have you tried the
test command on the boot prompt ? Maybe it will give you a clue what is
wrong.
Chris Scheers
>
> hi,
> ive got a microvax 3100, but no documentation on decoding problems on
> bootup.
>
> The machine siezed up with hyroglyphical chars streaming on one line on the
> terminal and no input seemingly possible either via the keyboard or accross
> a network connection. Having let it cool down completely I switched it back
> on and...
>
> On boot I get the following:
>
> KA41-0 V1.0
>
> F_..E...D...C... and so on to ...3...2_..1...
>
> ? C 0080 0000.4001
This "error" is a warning that the self test could not test the serial
port used by the console. It can be ignored.
It appears that the self test completed without errors.
The output from SHOW CONFIG would be helpful.
> 83 BOOT SYS
> -DKB700-
>
> then some standard boot info until
>
> The VAX/VMS system is now executing the system startup procedure.
> SYSGEN-W-OPENIN error opening STS$COMMON.[SYSEXE]ZSDRIVER.EXE as input.
I'm not familiar with this particular driver, but there are various
communications boards that are available for MicroVAX 3100 which require
additional software before they work. It is possible that you have one
of these boards without the additional software. I don't think that it
is responsible for your problems.
> Then further display is in hyroglyphics (u umlauts, backwards ?, A umlauts
> etc) and nothing resonds.
What kind of terminal are you using? Have you tried resetting the
terminal? Do other terminal ports work?
> If I reboot straight away I dont get any output to the terminal at all
> though I can hear the disk presumably going through various checks until all
> goes (relatively) quiet again.
> Any guesses as to the problem and if so whether it might be fixable, and are
> there any good resources on the web that can give good pointers in these
> sorts of situations.
I would try doing a minimal boot (B/1, then SET STARTUP_P1 "MIN", CONT)
and check the terminal characteristics. It is possible that the VMS
terminal characteristics and your terminal's actual characteristics are
incompatible. From the errors you are describing, I would check baud
rate, bits/word, and parity.
Good luck!
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Chris Scheers, Applied Synergy, Inc.
Voice: 817-237-3360 Internet: ch...@applied-synergy.com
Fax: 817-237-3074
David J. Dachtera
[snip]
> KA41-0 V1.0
>
> F_..E...D...C... and so on to ...3...2_..1...
>
> ? C 0080 0000.4001
Were you getting this before? My uVAX 3100 does this normally. The
single "?" means the error will not prevent autoboot.
> 83 BOOT SYS
> -DKB700-
[snip]
Um, I'd try to get your system disk OFF of SCSI Id. 7, especially since
the SCSI controller itself is Id. 6. Having the disk at a higher Id than
the controller may be a problem, from the little I know of SCSI. I may
be wrong about that, though.
I don't suppose you have a backup of your system disk that you could
restore from and try booting THAT up, huh?
Also, when your term. goes bonkers, try resetting it through setup. Some
else suggested trying other baud rates - maybe even try other data
formats. If this allows you to communicate normally with your machine,
see what ANALYSE/DISK/NOREPAIR has to say about your system disk. If you
already have a network setup, try to connect via LAT or TELNET (as
appropriate) and see if that will allow you to explore the system from
your terminal.
First though, I'd try the restore, if you have that option.
--
David J. Dachtera
dba DJE Systems
http://www.djesys.com/
Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page and Message Board:
http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/
This *IS* a VMS-related newsgroup. So, a certain bias in postings is to
be expected.
Feel free to exercise your rights of free speech and expression.
However, attacks against individual posters, or groups of posters, are
strongly discouraged.
David A Froble
>
> Roger Woodward wrote:
> [snip]
> > KA41-0 V1.0
> >
> > F_..E...D...C... and so on to ...3...2_..1...
> >
> > ? C 0080 0000.4001
>
> Were you getting this before? My uVAX 3100 does this normally. The
> single "?" means the error will not prevent autoboot.
>
> > 83 BOOT SYS
> > -DKB700-
> [snip]
>
> Um, I'd try to get your system disk OFF of SCSI Id. 7, especially since
> the SCSI controller itself is Id. 6. Having the disk at a higher Id than
> the controller may be a problem, from the little I know of SCSI. I may
> be wrong about that, though.
From the little I know about SCSI buses, ID 7 has the highest priority, ID 0 the
lowest. There may be times when you want a device to have a higher priority
that the computer/interface/controller. This is a bit of a streach, but I seem
to remember something about DMA from tape, doesn't make sense now, getting too
old.
Dave
--
David Froble Tel: 724-529-0450
Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc. Fax: 724-529-0596
DFE Ultralights, Inc. E-Mail: da...@tsoft-inc.com
T-Soft, Inc. 170 Grimplin Road Vanderbilt, PA 15486
Hoff Hoffman
In article <xCeq5.23540$Sc.672633@stones>, "Roger Woodward" <rog...@autogrouper.co.uk> writes:
:ive got a microvax 3100...
:The machine siezed up with hyroglyphical chars streaming on one line on the
:terminal and no input seemingly possible either via the keyboard or accross
:a network connection. Having let it cool down completely I switched it back
:on and...
:
:On boot I get the following:
:
:KA41-0 V1.0
That looks to be a very old MicroVAX 3100, probably a model 10 or 20.
Please see the FAQ for some important information on the system disk
maximum capacity limits for this box.
:F_..E...D...C... and so on to ...3...2_..1...
:
:? C 0080 0000.4001
I'd guess (I don't have the manual handy) that this is a failure with
the serial controller. That said, the ? indicates a minor problem,
and not something that will usually interfere with normal operations.
The use of ??, on the other hand, indicates a more nasty problem.
:83 BOOT SYS
:-DKB700-
:
:then some standard boot info until
:
:The VAX/VMS system is now executing the system startup procedure.
:SYSGEN-W-OPENIN error opening STS$COMMON.[SYSEXE]ZSDRIVER.EXE as input.
Its been upgraded, and you have a widget that requires a driver that
you do not have loaded. It can be safely ignored.
:Then further display is in hyroglyphics (u umlauts, backwards ?, A umlauts
:etc) and nothing resonds.
That would look like you have the wrong speed set on a terminal, or a
terminal that is simply too slow to respond (smooth scroll, or just
plan slow), or (often) a terminal with a slaved printer enabled.
Which port are you plugged into? (See the FAQ for some details on
various console port configuration settings.)
--------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------
Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman OpenVMS Engineering hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com
Carl Perkins
}Um, I'd try to get your system disk OFF of SCSI Id. 7, especially since
}the SCSI controller itself is Id. 6. Having the disk at a higher Id than
}the controller may be a problem, from the little I know of SCSI. I may
}be wrong about that, though.
}David J. Dachtera
I've been running a VAXstation 3100m48 with the system disk on DKB700
for something over 10 years. It is not a problem.
--- Carl
Richard D. Piccard
to the point in the boot where it executes commands that set serial port
parameters such as speed, and then the port is putting data on the wire that
the terminal is not able to interpret correctly.
RDP
Roger Woodward wrote:
> hi,
> ive got a microvax 3100, but no documentation on decoding problems on
> bootup.
>
> The machine siezed up with hyroglyphical chars streaming on one line on the
> terminal and no input seemingly possible either via the keyboard or accross
> a network connection. Having let it cool down completely I switched it back
> on and...
>
> On boot I get the following:
>
> KA41-0 V1.0
>
> F_..E...D...C... and so on to ...3...2_..1...
>
> ? C 0080 0000.4001
>
> 83 BOOT SYS
> -DKB700-
>
> then some standard boot info until
>
> The VAX/VMS system is now executing the system startup procedure.
> SYSGEN-W-OPENIN error opening STS$COMMON.[SYSEXE]ZSDRIVER.EXE as input.
>
> Then further display is in hyroglyphics (u umlauts, backwards ?, A umlauts
> etc) and nothing resonds.
>
> If I reboot straight away I dont get any output to the terminal at all
> though I can hear the disk presumably going through various checks until all
> goes (relatively) quiet again.
> Any guesses as to the problem and if so whether it might be fixable, and are
> there any good resources on the web that can give good pointers in these
> sorts of situations.
>
> Thanks for any pointers.
>
> Cheers
> Roger
--
==================================================================
Dick Piccard Academic Technology Manager
pic...@ohio.edu Computer Services
http://oak.cats.ohiou.edu/~piccard/ Ohio University
Maren Purves
are seriously wrong you tend to get nothing at all.
Maren Purves
Chris Hedley
"David J. Dachtera" <djesys...@earthlink.net> writes:
>> F_..E...D...C... and so on to ...3...2_..1...
>>
>> ? C 0080 0000.4001
>
> single "?" means the error will not prevent autoboot.
I get that (or something very similar): in my case it indicates that
the serial controller is completely fscked, sadly rendering the beastie
unusable.
> Um, I'd try to get your system disk OFF of SCSI Id. 7, especially since
> the SCSI controller itself is Id. 6. Having the disk at a higher Id than
> the controller may be a problem, from the little I know of SCSI. I may
> be wrong about that, though.
Technically it shouldn't be a problem. However, there were many and
varied weirdies of the early SCSI implementations; I can't remember
the exact idiosyncracies of the VAXstations but they were along the
lines of "only allocate discs IDs 0-3" or something along those lines
(I remember on other systems this was the case; 4 & 5 were for tapes,
6 was the controller and 7 reserved for some bizarre and unhealthy
purpose!)
Chris.
David J. Dachtera
>
> In article <39A9D681...@earthlink.net>,
> "David J. Dachtera" <djesys...@earthlink.net> writes:
> >> F_..E...D...C... and so on to ...3...2_..1...
> >>
> >> ? C 0080 0000.4001
> >
> > Were you getting this before? My uVAX 3100 does this normally. The
> > single "?" means the error will not prevent autoboot.
>
> I get that (or something very similar): in my case it indicates that
> the serial controller is completely fscked, sadly rendering the beastie
> unusable.
Well, I don't know if I'd go QUITE *THAT* far! You do, after all, get
this display on the console terminal, correct? Do you need more than
that?
--
David J. Dachtera
dba DJE Systems
http://www.djesys.com/
Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page and Message Board:
http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/
This *IS* an OpenVMS-related newsgroup. So, a certain bias in postings
Chris Hedley
"David J. Dachtera" <djesys...@earthlink.net> writes:
> Well, I don't know if I'd go QUITE *THAT* far! You do, after all, get
> this display on the console terminal, correct? Do you need more than
> that?
The firmware is the variety (or at least this is the way it's configured)
that stops an autoboot if even minor (one "?") errors are detected, so I
have to enter "B DKA200" Not too much of an issue, except that it appears
to be the same serial controller that handles both direct and terminal
keyboard input - getting messages *out* of the thing isn't a problem, but
there's that annoying heiroglyphics problem when trying to input...
Shame, really, it was quite a nice little system. Oh well, I suppose I
should start scouring the 2nd hand markets again (as I understamd it,
replacing the serial controller on a VS3100/76 is out of the question -
unless anyone knows different, that is!) (well, a guy can hope...)
Chris.
David J. Dachtera
>
> In article <39B1B9D6...@earthlink.net>,
> "David J. Dachtera" <djesys...@earthlink.net> writes:
> > Well, I don't know if I'd go QUITE *THAT* far! You do, after all, get
> > this display on the console terminal, correct? Do you need more than
> > that?
To address your comments in reverse order...
> replacing the serial controller on a VS3100/76 is out of the question
Ah HAH! A VAXstation! Now, that's a different critter!
O.k. What makes you think the serial interface is bad? Have you tried
using a terminal or a PC running a terminal program?
> The firmware is the variety (or at least this is the way it's configured)
> that stops an autoboot if even minor (one "?") errors are detected, so I
> have to enter "B DKA200"
When you type:
>>>SHOW HALT
What does it display? How 'bout:
>>>SHOW BOOT
...?
> Not too much of an issue, except that it appears
> to be the same serial controller that handles both direct and terminal
> keyboard input - getting messages *out* of the thing isn't a problem, but
> there's that annoying heiroglyphics problem when trying to input...
Hhmmm... So, you're saying that when you type it echoes garbage?
Do you have another keyboard you can try? They do go bad sometimes... I
think any old VT220(or later)-compatible keyboard will do. The console
program may be less sensitive than VMS to incorrect data format, etc.
Does your VS have a TK50 or TZ30? If it does, I could send you a SABKUP
tape. You could try to boot THAT up and see if it still echoes garbage.
That would help isolate it to hardware or software. See if your system
disk has an "E" root:
>>>B/E0000000 DKA200
Also, I'm seeing another pattern here: the system board battery (which
retains config info.) may have gone bad. Just another thought you might
explore...
Chris Hedley
Thanks...
> Ah HAH! A VAXstation! Now, that's a different critter!
Oops: I should really know better than that, but to this day I still
muddle VSs with MVs... :/
> O.k. What makes you think the serial interface is bad? Have you tried
> using a terminal or a PC running a terminal program?
I've tested the terminal with a loopback connector and that's okay; I
thought it may be the cable so I connected a monitor and keyboard but
I still got gobbledegook when I typed things...
> When you type:
>
>>>>SHOW HALT
Something like "ףטןק טבלפ" This is an
approximation: it seems like the high-bit is on permanently but it may
be more convoluted than that. Anyway, I don't get much of a result...
> Hhmmm... So, you're saying that when you type it echoes garbage?
Er... yes.
> Do you have another keyboard you can try? They do go bad sometimes... I
> think any old VT220(or later)-compatible keyboard will do. The console
> program may be less sensitive than VMS to incorrect data format, etc.
I have two LK201(?)s; I haven't ruled out the possibility that they
might both be a bit duff...
> Does your VS have a TK50 or TZ30? If it does, I could send you a SABKUP
> tape. You could try to boot THAT up and see if it still echoes garbage.
> That would help isolate it to hardware or software. See if your system
> disk has an "E" root:
>
>>>>B/E0000000 DKA200
>
> Also, I'm seeing another pattern here: the system board battery (which
> retains config info.) may have gone bad. Just another thought you might
> explore...
I'm pretty sure it doesn't have an E root (I don't remember seeing one
last time I mucked about with it and, unless it's a default install, it
won't be there as I didn't do it when I installed the OS a few years
back!) Unfortunately I don't have a TK%0 unit attached to it although
I guess that might be moot as the firmware isn't interested in a word I
say anyway!
I've tried various baud-rates to transmit to the VS, but haven't had any
joy with them or different parity settings, although AIUI the default
setting's 8/-/1 (b/p/s) anyway. But if there is an obscure config that
might be the source of my poor VS' woes I'd be glad to hear about it!
Thanks for your help,
Chris.
Roger Woodward
Sorry for the delay in doing/saying something about my "poorly" Microvax,
but ive finally got some time to dig, and hopefully work out how to solve my
problem...
The machine is a MicroVAX 3100 (I believe a Model 90, though it doesn't say
that anywhere on or in the box) made in August 1990 in Hong Kong (Ive taken
the lid off for the first time, it was a bit dusty inside)!
It was bought from DEC in about 1994, one of their ex demo machines, and its
worked with (pretty much) no trouble since then. A few months ago it did
what its doing now, i.e. randomly spout heiroglyphics accross the screen,
but after switching it off and on all seemed ok.
Now my problem has come back with a vengance..
As I say it is a MV3100 (probably model 90 - the model number on the back
says DV-31BT2-A)
Inside is an RZ23-E and RZ25-E, on the SCSI port is an external TLZ04 which
Ive unplugged for the moment.
I have a Wyse terminal (WY370) plugged into MMJ1 (OPA0: I think), the cable
between has a MMJ to 25pin converter, 5 pins of which are wired up.
One of the machines previous owners has scribbled:
OPA0 next to MMJ1,
TT1 next to MMJ2, TT3 next to MMJ3 and
TT2 next to the DB25 Serial connector.
I have checked the setup on the terminal (which as I say has worked fine for
the last 5 or so years)
and its 9600 baud, RCV=XMIT,Data 8/1/none,Handshake Xon/Xoff. And
unfortunately I dont have another (working) monitor to swap it for but
suspect I could try my PC (see below).
Now the problem, just to recap: I said
> :Then further display is in hyroglyphics (u umlauts, backwards ?, A
umlauts
> :etc) and nothing resonds.
The hyroglyphics now start in the middle of the self test (Ive just turned
it on again, it started waffling after ...C...B) so I am rather thinking
that something internally is going wrong.
At the moment the LEDs on the back stop with 7, 2 and 1 on, the rest off.
In my look through the FAQ I seem to recall there being a difference between
a VAXStation and a MicroVAX in terms of booting the machine without a
console i.e you cant do it with a MV.
Stephen Hoffman then said
> That would look like you have the wrong speed set on a terminal, or a
> terminal that is simply too slow to respond (smooth scroll, or just
> plan slow), or (often) a terminal with a slaved printer enabled.
>
> Which port are you plugged into? (See the FAQ for some details on
> various console port configuration settings.)
I found...
>VAX10. How can I set up an alternate console on a VAXstation?
>Most VAXstation systems have a switch -- often labeled S3 -- that
>enables one of the serial lines as the system console.
but I dont think it applies here, I cant see anything labelled S3 and anyway
its not a VS.
Tying the other ports...
MMJ2 (TTY1) gives nothing.
MMJ3 (TTY3) gives a few hyroglyphics.
Can I use TTY2 in any way, perhaps back it onto my PC serial port and use
Hyperterminal? Ive seen this described as an Asynchronous Modem Control
Port, which doesnt sound promising. I havnt got a MMJ (or 25 pin male) to 9
pin female converter or a 25 pin female cable (Ive got every other
combination) but will try to find one or the other.
For the moment that I am going to try and find the right serial converter
and swap the WYSE terminal for my PC and try it out on OPA0 and TTY2, if
that doesnt work then is the problem likely to lie with the serial
controller and is this at all fixable.
Thanks again for any ideas.
Cheers
Roger
Hoff Hoffman
In article <jivy5.9152$Cl1.224531@stones>, "Roger Woodward" <rog...@autogrouper.co.uk> writes:
:The machine is a MicroVAX 3100 (I believe a Model 90, though it doesn't say
:that anywhere on or in the box) made in August 1990 in Hong Kong...
The "KA" number displayed when the system powers up (if you can see it,
given the current problem) can be used against the list in the FAQ, or
the system model number can be translated. That said, the list of the
"KA" numbers in the current FAQ is lacking a few of the VAX systems, and
the following is an update queued for the next edition:
KA41-A for the MicroVAX 3100 Model 10 and 20
KA41-B for the VAXserver 3100 Model 10 and 20
KA41-D for the MicroVAX 3100 Model 10e and 20e
KA41-E for the VAXserver 3100 Model 10e and 20e
KA42-A for the VAXstation 3100 Model 30 and 40
KA42-B for the VAXstation 3100 Model 38 and 48
KA43-A for the VAXstation 3100 Model 76
KA45 for the MicroVAX 3100 Model 30 and 40
KA47 for the MicroVAX 3100 Model 80
KA50 for the MicroVAX 3100 Model 90
KA51 for the MicroVAX 3100 Model 95
KA55 for the MicroVAX 3100 Model 85
KA56 for the MicroVAX 3100 Model 96
KA58 for the MicroVAX 3100 Model 88
KA59 for the MicroVAX 3100 Model 98
If your system displays KA50, well, you have a MicroVAX 3100 model 90.
:The hyroglyphics now start in the middle of the self test (Ive just turned
:it on again, it started waffling after ...C...B) so I am rather thinking
:that something internally is going wrong.
This could easily be a fault with terminal or it might just be a fault
with the MicroVAX system. Hard to say. I'd swap the terminal first,
since that's easier to deal with, and cheaper to fix...
:In my look through the FAQ I seem to recall there being a difference between
:a VAXStation and a MicroVAX in terms of booting the machine without a
:console i.e you cant do it with a MV.
Both VAXstation and MicroVAX systems expect a system console of some sort,
whether it be the serial line or graphics console on the VAXstation or the
serial line console on the MicroVAX.
JF Mezei
> The hyroglyphics now start in the middle of the self test (Ive just turned
> it on again, it started waffling after ...C...B) so I am rather thinking
> that something internally is going wrong.
If you had a real VT terminal, I would suggest putting the terminal into the
"display control characters" mode. It is possible you are getting some weird
escape sequence that thrown your terminal into some hieroglyphiocs mode.
Does it stop dumping garbage to your screen eventually ? At that point, what
happens if you type "B<cr>" ? Do you heard the hard disk working (eg: does the
machine boot) ?
Roger Woodward
> KA41-D for the MicroVAX 3100 Model 10e and 20e
out now I must have been mistaken.
> :The hyroglyphics now start in the middle of the self test (Ive just
turned
> :it on again, it started waffling after ...C...B) so I am rather thinking
> :that something internally is going wrong.
>
> Hoff Hoffman <hof...@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam> wrote in message
> news:8qe0sv$nmr$1...@mailint03.im.hou.compaq.com...
> This could easily be a fault with terminal or it might just be a fault
> with the MicroVAX system. Hard to say. I'd swap the terminal first,
> since that's easier to deal with, and cheaper to fix...
Now I get nothing at all. Now paranioa rather than rationality has set in
I'm beginning to doubt that I have the
right baud rates etc set up. Ive checked the Wyse terminal against the
serial port on my pc and both talk to each other happily (Ive got a brand
new MMJ cable too).
The connection is at 9600 baud, Data 8/1/none,Handshake Xon/Xoff, and I'm
pretty sure this is the way its always been.
Failing that I think it must be time to get out the wallet and have it
serviced.
Cheers
Roger Woodward
Roger Woodward
JF Mezei <jfmezei...@videotron.ca> wrote in message
news:39CBD57C...@videotron.ca...
> Roger Woodward wrote:
> > The hyroglyphics now start in the middle of the self test (Ive just
turned
> > it on again, it started waffling after ...C...B) so I am rather thinking
> > that something internally is going wrong.
>
the
> "display control characters" mode. It is possible you are getting some
weird
> escape sequence that thrown your terminal into some hieroglyphiocs mode.
>
> Does it stop dumping garbage to your screen eventually ? At that point,
what
> happens if you type "B<cr>" ? Do you heard the hard disk working (eg: does
the
> machine boot) ?
nothing doing at all, everything is silent (barring the fans or course), a
green light on the front and a few green leds on the back. its like a morgue
in there...
at one point in the worsening sequence it would go through the boot
sequence, but my feeling is that it doesnt want to play ball any more.
cheers
rog