why did tandy exit the pc bus.?
dhw...@students.uiuc.edu
dvorak observed that at one time tandy was the #1 retail supplier of
consumer computers with its 1000 model line.
what happened?
i suspect that tandy, ignoring repeat buyers, implemented policies that
were contrary to consumer interests.
i was disappointed to learn my tandy 1000, labelled pc compatible was so
proprietary. and that buying tandy upgrades costed an arm and a leg.
could someone, anyone explain to me why tandy card slots were 10 1/2
inches rather than the industry standard 12 inch? i suspect it was to
lock the buyer into buying very pricey tandy upgrades.
i consider this an unethical business practice.
i was also disappointed to learn how much tandy was overcharging me
that cm-11 costed $479, my 20 meg hd card costed $799, that they sold me
dmp 130 that didn't even work, memory upgrades at $99 for 256k in 1987
they took advantage of first time buyer's ignorance.
i don't understand why, when everone was selling 1.44mb/vga computers,
tandy still peddled cga/720k floppies. again, it seemed to me they did not
care about their consumer.
pc mag, when they rated tandy by consumers, found that where dell and
compaq got as for consumer satisfaction and likihood to buy again, tandy
got d's for both.
that's my take on it. most people i know who bought tandy as their first
computer told me that they would not go tandy again.
and then i see tandy leaving the pc computer business.
go figure.
--
Tim Mallery
dhw...@students.uiuc.edu () wrote:
>dvorak observed that at one time tandy was the #1 retail supplier of
>consumer computers with its 1000 model line.
>
>what happened?
They sold their factories to AST for a good price. If you look at the
AST Advantage line, you will see an updated version of the Sensation
II. And now AST has been sold to Samsung.
Tim Mallery
tmal...@norwich.net
Frank Durda IV
dhw...@students.uiuc.edu wrote:
>
> dvorak observed that at one time tandy was the #1 retail supplier of
> consumer computers with its 1000 model line.
>
> what happened?
Tandy did a lot of stupid marketing things all at once and these coincided
with other industry events to make the computer division a serious money
loser. This happened in Fall 1992/Spring 1993.
> i suspect that tandy, ignoring repeat buyers, implemented policies that
> were contrary to consumer interests.
Of course, just like just about every other PC maker. Long term in the US
PC business is one year, so the "repeat" buyer who won't buy another
machine for six to eight years (as was the case when Tandy was in the biz),
was and is not even a consideration. Keeping the first machine from
coming back under warranty or during the no-questions-asked return period
are concerns.
> i was disappointed to learn my tandy 1000, labelled pc compatible was so
> proprietary. and that buying tandy upgrades costed an arm and a leg.
It was not proprietary. It was completely software compatible with the
machine it was meant to be a copy of, the IBM PCJr. The only problem was
that the PCJr was not a successful product and was discontinued just
weeks before the 1000 came out. Despite this, the 1000 was extremely
successful, and it became its own standard. Many times over the next
few years, design decisions were made to be PC AT compatible or be 1000
compatible within the 1000 line. Remember that when the 1000 came out,
there was no PC AT yet, only the PCXT and the PCJr and the PCJr had better
graphics and sound.
> could someone, anyone explain to me why tandy card slots were 10 1/2
> inches rather than the industry standard 12 inch? i suspect it was to
> lock the buyer into buying very pricey tandy upgrades.
> i consider this an unethical business practice.
Because with few exceptions at the time, the newer cards for the PC and
PCXT were not the full size the PC/PCXT allowed, and since the 1000 was
meant to be software compatible with the PCJr, the fact that it had ISA
slots at all was a feature over the proprietary slots the PCJr had.
This is a very important point that people constantly forget: The 1000
was meant to compete with the PCJr, not the PC. The fact that it was
marketed that way later on is not the fault of the designers.
The smaller form factor was also popular with many home computer users
as well as schools which didn't have furniture deep enough to accomodate
the full PC/PC XT form factor.
> i was also disappointed to learn how much tandy was overcharging me
It has been published in many business magazines and trade newspapers
over the past twenty years (at least) that Radio Shacks have enormous
pure profit margins, above the profit Tandy Corporation makes on selling
product to the stores. It used to be that no product went to a Radio
Shack with less than a 48% profit margin for the store. That is on top
of the 8.5% profit for factory and other "up charges" for shipping and
warehousing. Some items, like batteries, have 300% profit margins at
Radio Shack, and at the corner grocery store. Because of competition,
some classes of Radio Shack product now have margins below 10%, but
parts are still extremely profitable.
> that cm-11 costed $479, my 20 meg hd card costed $799, that they sold me
> dmp 130 that didn't even work, memory upgrades at $99 for 256k in 1987
If it didn't work, you should have taken it back. I can't feel sorry
you not taking action about this ten years ago when it occurred. I'll
also point out that in 1987, 16/256 color VGA would have cost you a lot
more than those prices and may have been too expensive.
> they took advantage of first time buyer's ignorance.
As do most stores today. The phrase "let the buyer beware" has been
around for how many centuries?
> i don't understand why, when everone was selling 1.44mb/vga computers,
> tandy still peddled cga/720k floppies. again, it seemed to me they did not
> care about their consumer.
Again, you bought into the 1000 line when better products were available.
The 4000 series was available at that time (386DX-16/PC-AT compatible/1.44
floppies/VGA) right next to the 1000SX/TX. That was your choice.
Eventually the 1000 line also included VGA and 1.44 Meg floppies.
> pc mag, when they rated tandy by consumers, found that where dell and
> compaq got as for consumer satisfaction and likihood to buy again, tandy
> got d's for both.
This remains true today. The traderags called had a word for it which I
forget at this moment, but it wasn't complimentary. That is why
Radio Shack started marketing the same computers under the Tandy
name, as surveys found the Radio Shack name imply cheap, shoddy, etc.
Later when that stigma started coating the Tandy name, they used
the "GRiD" name to sell to corporate accounts. Frequently these
were the same computers also available with the Tandy name, just more
expensive. Sorta like the Ford Escort and Mercury Lynx. Same car.
At one point you could buy the same box with Tandy, DEC and GRiD names
on it and pay three different prices.
> and then i see tandy leaving the pc computer business.
Actually they left in 1993, following devestating losses on several badly
marketed/conceived products: Digital Compact Cassette Recorder ($40M),
VIS ($75M), and the original Sensation!, which was a non-upgradable
nightmare. Sensation! actually made money, but not as much as expected
and had considerable support and return costs. Sensation II addressed
these and was designed by Tandy, but full production was under ASTs
ownership. Then there was the closing of the lab that had been dinking
around on "THOR". I have no idea how many millions went down that hole.
At the same time, DEC stopped buying high-end systems from Tandy (which
they had been doing for five years), and started making their own models.
At that time, DEC was absorbing something like 40% of the Tandy factory
capacity, so this was a serious ding to the bottom line. Tandy then
decided to spin all the design and manufacturing units out into a
new company, Tandy Electronics Electronics (TE Electronics), sacked 20%
of the staff and got about four months into that process when they decided
the new company would be out of money by the end of the year, so they put
the computer division and many other chunks up for sale at fire sale
prices, and sacked another 10% of Tandy and 50% of GRiD staff, claiming
all the while that the sale was not a "change of control".
It just so happened that during the brief existance of TEE, Tandy had
been negotiating with AST to use the now-idle assembly lines (that used
to make DEC computers) to make systems for AST. When Tandy decided
to sell the computer division, they conned AST into buying all the Tandy
and GRiD units. Of course, AST ended up closing three facilities they
had just bought within six months, eating those costs, and AST has
never recovered from being under the huge debt load they got suckered
into taking. Clearly they didn't research the proposed purchase
carefully enough. They also hired the same marketing guys who wrecked
Tandy who promptly wrecked AST too. They have since moved on to
DEC, Compaq, Gateway and other victims.
Frank Durda IV - only these addresses work:|"Tandy employee 1982-1993."
<uhclem.nospam%nemesis.lonestar.org> |"A free subway shows a profit,
or <uhclem.nospam%nemesis%rwsystr.nkn.net >| as does Security. - You are
You must leave the "nospam" to get delivery| in the Tandy Zone(TM)!"
(c) 1997, ask before reprinting.
Jim Kajpust
dhw...@students.uiuc.edu () wrote:
>dvorak observed that at one time tandy was the #1 retail supplier of
>consumer computers with its 1000 model line.
>what happened?
I think the biggest problem was that their PC compatibles - weren't.
They had that odd ball size card and their own prices were very high.
It was thing to be propietary back in the 8bit non-standard days, but
it was suicide once DOS and IBM took off.
When I upgraded from my model 4P to 16 bit, I changed from Radio Shack
to a "solid" company -- Atari and its ST line. Actually at the time,
the Ataris were running fast - the Mac emulator for example actually
ran faster than the Mac it emulated. The GEM OS (very much like the
Mac OS) was very quick -- much faster than the Windows that was
available at the time.
Unfortunately, I think Atari hired all the folks that the Shack got
rid of. Then I went to another "solid" company -- Zeos - sheesh.....
Now I'm with a Micron.
Mike Riley
I would just like to put in a good word for the 1000. I had bought a
tandy 1000 as my first msdos pc. Up til then i had had a trs-80 model
I, III, and 4p. I considered my 1000 to be a very reliable machine, i
never had one problem with it the whole time that i had it. As for the
expansion slot size, i did not see that as any form of problem, not one
card i ever bought for any machine that i have owned exceeded the 10" of
the tandy slot. The only problem i saw with the 1000 was the lack of an
upgrade path, you could not put another video card in it, or change out
the motherboard, you could not do that with some other systems as well.
The pc jr had also this limit, and so did many other of the early
compatables. Compaq, AT&T, EPSON and many others you also could not do
motherboard changes either. The beginnings of the msdos era were not
well defined, all the manufacturers were vying for position, it was not
forseen that people would start replacing pieces of their computers as
opposed to replacing the whole computer. All computers before this
point, if you wanted something newer, you bought a new computer, you did
not upgrade the one you had. For example, you bought a model III or 4
rather than trying to make your model I into a 4, you could not turn
your atari 400 into an 800. In my opinion, tandy did a good job with
the 1000. and in my opinion, when it came out, it was the best pc
compatable on the market.
Concerning pricing: The original tandy 1000 was sold for a very good
price for what the machine was. I bought mine for considerably less
than what it cost to buy an xt machine (either ibm or the clones). As
for the expansion options, yes tandy was rather high priced, but they
were not the only source of add-ons. I bought my 20mb hard disk for
$300 from another vender, i bought the monitor from another vender, and
i bought the memory upgrades from another vender. There were many third
party venders who provided tandy 1000 upgrades for the same prices as
for upgrades to standard pcs.
Another quick note about prices: Tandy was not the only company that
tried to gauge their customers, look at ibm itself, for how long did you
pay way way more for any ibm machine or add-on than any other company in
the market?
Well that is my 2 cents worth.
Mike
Bill Vermillion
In article <5q4ek7$p...@chronicle.concentric.net>,
Jim Kajpust <kaj...@tardis.svsu.edu> wrote:
>dhw...@students.uiuc.edu () wrote:
>
>>dvorak observed that at one time tandy was the #1 retail supplier of
>>consumer computers with its 1000 model line.
>>what happened?
>I think the biggest problem was that their PC compatibles - weren't.
>They had that odd ball size card and their own prices were very high.
>It was thing to be propietary back in the 8bit non-standard days, but
>it was suicide once DOS and IBM took off.
The 3000s, 4000s, 5000s were PC compatible.
The 1000's were NOT PC compatible - go back and look at the
advertising and you will see they were MS-DOS compatible.
Why?
IBM - before the 1000s release - had been pushing the IBM PC-JR -
remember that?
The 1000s was basically a PC-JR compatible/clone without the
stupid 'chiclet' keyboard.
If you look at the architecture of the first 1000s (I don't
knoow about later or the 1200s) you will see that the video
memory was just taken from the top of the real memory. On a
128K machine to the top 4K was taken for video if it were mono
- more for color (as I recall).
The Sanyo 55 did the same thing.
Tandy will typically make their entire production run of
machines (or purchase relabeled product) at one time - and
warehouse the rest. They buy as many as they project they can
sell in x years. Volume buying discounts offset
the warehousing. That's why something that gets popular
because of some particular feature may only last 6 months in
the stores - because they had assumed they made a 2 year
supply.
The bad news for Tandy was that after all the machines had been
made, but before they were announced, IBM dropped the PC-JR.
All they needed to created the monster 'white elephant' of all
time was to announce the 1000 as a PC-JR compatible. :-)
So that's why the catalogs showed the machine as an MS-DOS
compatible - which it was, but none of their advertising called
it a PC-Compatible - though many consumers relate MS-DOS
compatible to mean PC compatible.
In the early days of the MS-DOS world there were many machines
that ran MS-DOS that could not run each version of the OS but
could run programs designed for that OS. Almost all of the
larger manufacturers had their own licensed version of MS-DOS,
some that were close to the original and others with quite a
variant.
Of the major manufacturers today the only one that I can
immediately think of that 'diddles' with the stock OS variants
to any great extent is Compaq.
> The GEM OS (very much like the
>Mac OS) was very quick -- much faster than the Windows that was
>available at the time.
I chose Gem on my first PC - a LONG time ago.
>Unfortunately, I think Atari hired all the folks that the Shack got
>rid of. Then I went to another "solid" company -- Zeos - sheesh.....
Atari's problems started with being sold and then the new
management not having a clue of what to do nor how to do it.
That killed more than one company in the computer business.
Management actually killed GE's computer business in the
mainframe world, though we do use the technology that came from
GE to this day.
Such things as MICR encoding on the bottom of your checks, the
first computer to computer communication worthy of it's name.
When the engineering departament had successfully transmitted
data via satellite from the US to France in the early 1960s,
and announced this at a meeting the CEO of GE was quoting as
saying "I can't see any reason any computer should communicated
with another" (quote is close - I don't feel like going looking
up the exact quote - document in "The King of the Seven
Dwarfs".)
The mismangement of that area - when they had the potential to
be bigger than GE - probably ranks right along with Smith's
debacle at GM where he managed to take a company with 65% share
of the market to 35% in 10 short years. Bad management has
probably killed more companies than bad product.
Tandy made the decision to get out manufacturing and stay with
what they do best, market and sell.
They still a large furniture making company (O'Sullivan office
kit furniture), a large wire/cable company, and I think they
still own a large magnetic media company that makes (made)
video tape, audio tape, and computer media - Memtek. Some of
that may have changed and I have kept up with them recently.
--
Bill Vermillion - bill.ve...@oau.org | bi...@bilver.com
barrym
I remember when everyone but Tandy was selling 5.25 disks for $10
a box and Tandy was selling them for $29 a box and telling customers
that they had to use Tandy disks in their Tandy computers.
Barry
dhw...@students.uiuc.edu wrote:
: dvorak observed that at one time tandy was the #1 retail supplier of
: consumer computers with its 1000 model line.
:
: what happened?
:
: i suspect that tandy, ignoring repeat buyers, implemented policies that
: were contrary to consumer interests.
:
: i was disappointed to learn my tandy 1000, labelled pc compatible was so
: proprietary. and that buying tandy upgrades costed an arm and a leg.
:
: could someone, anyone explain to me why tandy card slots were 10 1/2
: inches rather than the industry standard 12 inch? i suspect it was to
: lock the buyer into buying very pricey tandy upgrades.
: i consider this an unethical business practice.
:
: i was also disappointed to learn how much tandy was overcharging me
:
: that cm-11 costed $479, my 20 meg hd card costed $799, that they sold me
: dmp 130 that didn't even work, memory upgrades at $99 for 256k in 1987
:
: they took advantage of first time buyer's ignorance.
:
: i don't understand why, when everone was selling 1.44mb/vga computers,
: tandy still peddled cga/720k floppies. again, it seemed to me they did not
: care about their consumer.
:
: pc mag, when they rated tandy by consumers, found that where dell and
: compaq got as for consumer satisfaction and likihood to buy again, tandy
: got d's for both.
:
: that's my take on it. most people i know who bought tandy as their first
: computer told me that they would not go tandy again.
:
: and then i see tandy leaving the pc computer business.
: go figure.
: --
Chris N.
> Another quick note about prices: Tandy was not the only company that
> tried to gauge their customers, look at ibm itself, for how long did you
> pay way way more for any ibm machine or add-on than any other company in
> the market?
>
> Well that is my 2 cents worth.
>
> Mike
Model 57sx and checked out the site just for the hell of it. To buy a
replacement plastic label that said "IBM PS/2 57SLC" you will have to
pay $75 (I checked the price; it's no typo). The 386 SLC upgrade
processor costs $449 (an Intel Pentium 166 w/ MMX costs about $425) I
think IBM needs to get it's head back to Earth. Tandy may have been
expensive but it isn't like IBM in regards to pricing old technology
(TRSDOS 6.2.1 for my 4D costs me $15.99 recently; it retailed for around
$150 originally).
Chris
Chris Odorjan
barrym wrote:
>
> I remember when everyone but Tandy was selling 5.25 disks for $10
> a box and Tandy was selling them for $29 a box and telling customers
> that they had to use Tandy disks in their Tandy computers.
I can remember the diskettes when they dropped to about $14 (CDN) a
box. The local Radio Shack was the only store in town, and driving to
another store wasn't worth the $4 I'd save. Eventually, every store was
selling them, and the price finally dropped to compete. Now, once again,
Radio Shack is the only store in town selling 360k diskettes (and up to
a year ago, they were still made by InterTAN), only this time, they're
$2.50/box. (We use some older computers, so they're still useful for
us.)
Chris "Bob" Odorjan
This is only temporary, unless it works. - Red Green
BobNET - http://www.oxford.net/~bobnet/
barrym
Mike Riley (Mike....@cc.mail.philips.com) wrote:
: I would just like to put in a good word for the 1000. I had bought a
: tandy 1000 as my first msdos pc. Up til then i had had a trs-80 model
: I, III, and 4p. I considered my 1000 to be a very reliable machine, i
: never had one problem with it the whole time that i had it.
That was one of the best things about Tandy. They made really solid
hardware. Even an industry where solid hardware was the norm, Tandy
excelled. With a few exceptions.
I did contract programming for several years for a few companies that
were regular customers of mine and I put them all in Model IIs and never
had any problems with a single one. In fact, with about 10 computers
that I oversaw, the only hardware problem ever was with a printer. The
clip that held the ribbon down broke. It was a $15 part but it took
Tandy 6 months to get one and a $2000 printer sat idle that whole time.
Other than that the record was perfect. Then they came out with the
model 16 and things went downhill fast.
None of the Model 16's and later Model 6000's were running after about
3 years but all the Model II's were still running till they got replaced
and none ever had a hardware problem that I ever heard about. Pretty
remarkable.
Barry
barrym
Chris N. (chr...@snet.net) wrote:
: You should take a look at IBM's parts online website. I own a PS/2
: Model 57sx and checked out the site just for the hell of it. To buy a
: replacement plastic label that said "IBM PS/2 57SLC" you will have to
: pay $75 (I checked the price; it's no typo). The 386 SLC upgrade
: processor costs $449 (an Intel Pentium 166 w/ MMX costs about $425) I
: think IBM needs to get it's head back to Earth. Tandy may have been
: expensive but it isn't like IBM in regards to pricing old technology
: (TRSDOS 6.2.1 for my 4D costs me $15.99 recently; it retailed for around
: $150 originally).
Tandy is just as bad about old stuff. Not the real old stuff like the
old TRS-80 stuff. They've been great about that. Probably better about
finding ways to support their really old customers than anybody else.
On the other hand, I priced an external battery charger for my 1110hd
and it was $300 or thereabouts. Or maybe $400. I forget exactly. For
a simple battery charger just like the $10 ones. Figure that one out.
Barry
barrym
Chris Odorjan (codo...@oxford.net) wrote:
:
: I can remember the diskettes when they dropped to about $14 (CDN) a
: box. The local Radio Shack was the only store in town, and driving to
: another store wasn't worth the $4 I'd save. Eventually, every store was
: selling them, and the price finally dropped to compete. Now, once again,
: Radio Shack is the only store in town selling 360k diskettes (and up to
: a year ago, they were still made by InterTAN), only this time, they're
: $2.50/box. (We use some older computers, so they're still useful for
: us.)
Yuk! I didn't realize you couldnt get 360k disks anymore. I better go
buy a bunch. I have 2 old computers that use them. Thanks for the tip.
By the way, Tandy used to sell the single sided disks for quite a bit
less and they were made as double sided but only checked on one side
and then put in a different wrapper, so a lot of us used to punch the
holes in the single sided to make them look double sided. I still have
a bunch of those and most of the ones I've looked at recently work just
fine.
Barry
Barry
dhw...@students.uiuc.edu
on the subject of nonproprietary hardware
how does anyone (frank i'm sure you can answer this)
explain the nonstandard keyboard port on the original 1000 that makes the
use of industry standard keyboards impossible.
and tandy had the NERVE to sell their "keyboard adapter" kit so you could
use industry standard keyboard (i liked the classic AT arrangement with
functionkeys on the left) for $100!
--
Roger Merchberger
In article <5q9l04$eu2$5...@uuneo.neosoft.com>, bar...@neosoft.com says...
> Tandy is just as bad about old stuff. Not the real old stuff like the
> old TRS-80 stuff. They've been great about that. Probably better
about
> finding ways to support their really old customers than anybody else.
>
> On the other hand, I priced an external battery charger for my 1110hd
> and it was $300 or thereabouts. Or maybe $400. I forget exactly. For
> a simple battery charger just like the $10 ones. Figure that one out.
You're right! Even some of the *older* stuff is bad... for those few
folks that are lucky enough to have a Tandy 600, have you priced the
Basic ROM for it lately? $129.95 -- exactly $10 less than original
price... for a 12 year old machine!
HTH,
Roger "Merch" Merchberger
dhw...@students.uiuc.edu
On Mon, 14 Jul 1997, Bill Vermillion wrote:
> Because the Model 1000 was a IBM PC-JR clone. RS hadn't
> announced it, but had made thousands of them (typically they
> build a 2 year supply of most things) when IBM announced they
> were killing JR.
>
> RS then had to market the 1000's as MS-DOS compatibles. They
> weren't PC comaptible, but PC-JR comaptible.
>
what i thought was the pc/jr used an infrared keyboard without a port.
so i guess what i was wondering was where tandy get their keyboard from.
Frank Durda IV
dhw...@students.uiuc.edu wrote:
: on the subject of nonproprietary hardware
: how does anyone (frank i'm sure you can answer this)
: explain the nonstandard keyboard port on the original 1000 that makes the
: use of industry standard keyboards impossible.
Because the 1000 wasn't meant to be PC compatible. The 1000 (all together
now) was meant to be PCJr compatible, with the exception of accepting
XT-style ISA cards, something that would allow cheaper networking systems in
schools (ie Network 4). The PCJr had limited and expensive network support.
Plus Tandy decided to put a really good keyboard on the unit, vs the chiclet
keyboard put on the Jr.
To that end, Tandy used the Fujitsu keyboard model with the layout that had
been designed by the Model II/16 Scripsit developers and used on the 2000.
This also let them re-use the plastic moldings, a big cost and time saver.
For a couple of reasons, they elected to use a connector with more pins
(might have been a FCC thing when I think about it), and this made this
keyboard incompatible with the one sold on the 2000s, but then it was
going to be incompatible anyway if it was to be IBM compatible. They also
had to change the firmware in the keyboard that went with the 1000s to
make it produce the scan codes that were compatible with the PCJr.
IBM, not Tandy, brought out the PCJr with scan codes, keyboard clocking,
video modes and a whole series of other things that were not compatible with
the original IBM PC. IBM, not Tandy, decided the PCJr was a distinct family
and only needed BIOS compatibility with the original PC and nothing more.
IBM, not Tandy, decided to put the audio hardware on the same I/O ports that
IBM would eventually use for the second DMA controller in the PC AT series.
IBM, not Tandy, decided to re-arrange the interrupt structure on the PCJr.
Tandys mistake (if you could call designing a line of machines that sold
millions of units over the life of the 1000 family, with production hitting
5,000 systems per day at the peak) was to decide to build a machine designed
to run the same software that IBM was pushing vendors to write specifically
for the PCJr, and then bringing the 1000 out just as IBM was announcing that
they were discontinuing the PCJr because of lousy sales, and the fabled
replacement for the PCJr, code-named "Peanut" according to the trade
magazines, was not a real product after all. There were six weeks or so
of panic in Tandy Tower I between IBMs announcement and the 1000 launch date
because of this. "We can't say that our product is better than a
discontinued product! That's not saying much!"
: and tandy had the NERVE to sell their "keyboard adapter" kit so you could
: use industry standard keyboard (i liked the classic AT arrangement with
: functionkeys on the left) for $100!
Actually, a different company came up with that, and Tandy seeing that
there was some demand, mainly from people buying ergonomic keyboards from
Northgate and other firms, or who HAD to have the 10-key Fn cluster on
the left side of the keyboard so their Infocom game function key template
would "fit" around the keys, simply sold that translater unit with Tandys
name on it. Nobody in Tandy R&D knew a thing about it until the marketing
weenies came in one day and asked why Scripsit didn't handle the XT scan
codes coming out of the box the same as the 1000 keyboard. The reason,
(all together now) the 1000 keyboard scan codes were compatible with the
PCJr, not the PC XT and the maker of the box hadn't addressed that.
So the maker of the converter box had to go back and design a more complex
version that converted timing AND scan codes.
The translator eventually had a small microprocessor and ROM inside, read
the scan code from the keyboard, ran it through a translation table, then
sent the replacement character to the main computer, making appropriate
adjustments to the signal handshaking. It is the scan code translation
it had to do that made that box more expensive than you thought.
When Tandy designed the 3000, the VP of software at that time, and former
part-owner of Infocom, was so obsessed about the little function key
templates from his Infocom products not fitting that he demanded and got
the 3000 to go back to the function key cluster arrangement. Less than
a year later, IBM switched to the Tandy 1000/2000 keyboard layout in their
PS/2 keyboards, putting the function keys across the top. Over a year after
that, Tandy switched back to the keyboard layout they had pioneered in
1983 and then abandoned because of a handful of Infocom games.
Frank Durda IV - only these addresses work:|"Help Marvin the Martian
<uhclem.nospam%nemesis.lonestar.org> | keep Mars Microsoft-free.
or <uhclem.nospam%nemesis%rwsystr.nkn.net >| Otherwise, he might get
You must leave the "nospam" to get delivery| *very* angry." :-)
Charles Stephens - SunSoft Sustaining Engineering
>>>>> "RM" == Roger Merchberger <zme...@northernway.net> writes:
RM> In article <5q9l04$eu2$5...@uuneo.neosoft.com>, bar...@neosoft.com says...
>> Tandy is just as bad about old stuff. Not the real old stuff like the
>> old TRS-80 stuff. They've been great about that. Probably better
RM> about
>> finding ways to support their really old customers than anybody else.
>>
>> On the other hand, I priced an external battery charger for my 1110hd
>> and it was $300 or thereabouts. Or maybe $400. I forget exactly. For
>> a simple battery charger just like the $10 ones. Figure that one out.
RM> You're right! Even some of the *older* stuff is bad... for those few
RM> folks that are lucky enough to have a Tandy 600, have you priced the
RM> Basic ROM for it lately? $129.95 -- exactly $10 less than original
RM> price... for a 12 year old machine!
Not that I am defending Tandy, but I think they know that they have
you by your balls. Where else can you buy a new M600 BASIC chip?
I am glad that they will still sell the stuff. Try getting a HDFD
upgrade for the original Mac II: you can't! And the 600 is older!
cfs
--
Charles F. Stephens = c...@eng.sun.com
Software Engineer =
Solaris Network Sustaining = "Take only as directed. If rash develops,
Sun Microsystems, Inc. = seek the advice of a physician. Do not
Menlo Park, California, USA = induce vomiting. All rights reserved."
User731696
That little keyboard template you mention reminds me of the one I used for
many
years on Lotus 123. The company I worked for for 11 years still had that
IBM PC
when I left them 2 years ago. At one point sales of Lotus 123 were the
deciding
factor in which computers were selling and which weren't.
A bit more important than just changing the keyboard for some text
adventure
games.
Frank Durda IV
Bill Groskurth (aa...@torfree.net) wrote:
: At one time they refused to carry computer magazines (80 micro comes
: to mind) because the tandy user might find out other people sold computer
: acessories.: :
Not true. The reason for no '80 Micro, was that they HATED Wayne Greens
guts. But then, quite a few people, including most amateur radio
operators hated his opinions and '80 Micro was one of his many soapboxes.
Many Radio Shacks did carry books and many franchises carried magazines.
Distribution and Tandys internal pricing system made periodical sales
difficult. In the Tandy system, once a product (any product) hits the
store, that store owns it and can't send it back to the warehouse. That's
why they have the urge to re-package product and put it back on the shelf
or on the "Red Tag(TM)" table with AS IS written all over it. The store
even have to buy the catalogs, even back in the days when they were free.
So you can see why a store would be reluctant to stock a monthly magazine
that they could not return unsold copies of at the end of the month.
Only the case of wide-spread defects with a given product will Tandy
Corp grudgingly take product back, or for those very rare recalls, such
as the hand-held "rob-the-bank" game, where you "get extra points for
shooting the guards!". You have to go back to the 1983 or 1984 catalog,
but that game was in there, and was in the stores, at least until someone
in the press noticed.
Then there were the computer catalogs with the office furniture positioned
in the shape of a swastika, which were pulled only after the group I was
in pointed this out. Clearly the merchandising and marketing departments
flunked the Tandy pattern recognition tests the hiring department made
everybody take. (Over the years, they managed this particular boner
twice.)
: After saying they would never sell a IBM compatible computer they came out
: with the MS-DOS Model 2000. I bought used Model 1200 because made but
: Tandon for Tandy and I think I read in a computer magazine that it was so
: compatible that IBM was upset.
See the other posting I wrote on this subject in this same thread. Actually,
IBM never bothered Tandy about the 1200 at all. But they crawled all over
us about the 1000 FOR YEARS. This included seizing our BIOS ROMs at
customs.
: Then tandy started playing games again when they came out with the Model
: 1000's. The 3/4 cards ....
See the other post I wrote in this thread. This was not meant to be a
PC-compatible machine. It was meant to be a PCJr that would accept ISA
network cards instead of proprietary IBM PCJr "modules". If the 1000
had not been so popular, it would have been discontinued after the
two-year life they had planned for it.
I don't understand why this simple fact that the 1000 wasn't mean to
be a IBM PC/XT clone still won't register with people despite 12 years
of time passing by.
Frank Durda IV - only these addresses work:|"How do I know?
<uhclem.nospam%nemesis.lonestar.org> | I was sorta there, that's how."
or <uhclem.nospam%nemesis%rwsystr.nkn.net >|
You must leave the "nospam" to get delivery|
Leonard Erickson
dhw...@students.uiuc.edu writes:
>> Because the Model 1000 was a IBM PC-JR clone. RS hadn't
>> announced it, but had made thousands of them (typically they
>> build a 2 year supply of most things) when IBM announced they
>> were killing JR.
>>
>> RS then had to market the 1000's as MS-DOS compatibles. They
>> weren't PC comaptible, but PC-JR comaptible.
>>
>
> what i thought was the pc/jr used an infrared keyboard without a port.
That was the original. They had to add the ability to use "wired"
keyboards because one of the markets they intended to sell the PCjr to
was schools. In a classroom setting, IR keyboards aren't practical. Too
much trouble with Joey pointing his keyboard at Suzie's machine.
--
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
sha...@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leo...@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort