Supercomputers for AI not Big Physics
Forthminder
no longer afford. It would be far better to
reallocate the enormous funds being squandered
and wasted on nuclear physics and create
artificial intelligence on supercomputers --
another spendy resource that should be taken
away from the Dr. Strangeloves of this world
and be directed towards what really matters --
the coming Technological Singularity.
Mentifex
--
http://www.scn.org/~mentifex/Mind.html
http://mind.sourceforge.net/aisteps.html
http://mentifex.virtualentity.com/m4thuser.html
http://www.newscientist.com/blogs/thesword/2009/12/nuclear-physics-hit-hardest-by.html
Uncle Al
>
> Big Physics is a luxury that the human race can
> no longer afford.
Turn off your computer, cell phone, and TV. Don't get radiation for
cancer, either.
> It would be far better to
> reallocate the enormous funds being squandered
> and wasted on nuclear physics and create
> artificial intelligence on supercomputers --
[snip crap]
as soon as somebody defines what in silico intellgence is. The wet
stuff remains functionally undefined as well. Los Angeles Unified
School District has some 700,000 students. The 60% of entering
students who graduate four-year high school within six years, by its
own CAPI testing, have a weighted IQ of 81-84 despite CAPI having
"ethnic sensibilities." The "Los Angeles Times" proudly publishes
annual CAPI scores by race. Do you imagine it would be desirable to
have that number snug closer to 100?
One shudders to imagine the tested IQ given an honest evaluation - but
that is not necessary! The local news reported early this year that
LA Mayor Antonio Villaraigosa (go ahead - you pronounce it) and his
diversity accountants "discovered" a $420+ million shortfall in the LA
City budget, "almost $1 million day." I was watching it on TV and my
mouth fell open. Perhaps the Brown ink didn't factor in weekends, or
the fiscal year is on Mexican time, or they are all morons. Your
choice.
> "artificial intelligence on supercomputers"
Ha ha ha. Neither the phone system nor the Internet has awakend, nor
have any of the TOP 500. Nobody seems concerned that it might
happen. Perhaps that is because the bleeding edge of computer science
cannot imagine how to duplicate the sophisticated thought processes of
bee. Then again, they are all girls.
--
Uncle Al
http://www.mazepath.com/uncleal/
(Toxic URL! Unsafe for children and most mammals)
http://www.mazepath.com/uncleal/qz4.htm
alie...@gmail.com
> The local news reported early this year that
> LA Mayor Antonio Villaraigosa (go ahead - you pronounce it) and his
> diversity accountants "discovered" a $420+ million shortfall in the LA
> City budget, "almost $1 million day."
And people wonder how the Austrian "made such a mess" of California.
Mark L. Fergerson
zzbu...@netscape.net
> Big Physics is a luxury that the human race can
> no longer afford. It would be far better to
> reallocate the enormous funds being squandered
> and wasted on nuclear physics and create
> artificial intelligence on supercomputers --
Well, but supercomputers are also why the
people understand transistors, invented
emulators, rather than clocks.
They're why the people who understand economics
invented holographic memory and on-line publishing, rather than
COBAL.
They're why the people who understand engineeing
invented USB, Atomic Clock Wristwatches, XML, and GPS, rather than
GE.
They're why the people who understand CRTs invented
Blue Ray and Self-Replicating Machines, rather than AMA.
They're why the people who understand software, invented
home broadband, cyber batteries, optical computers, and self-
assembling robots,
rather than Chaos Theory
They're why the people who understand Firmware invented Cell Phones
and All-In-One Printers,
rather than Firmware.
They're why the people undersand FTP, invented CD+rw, rather than
FTP.
They're why the people who understand the navy, invented UAVs and
Rapid Prototyping,
rather than the navy.
> another spendy resource that should be taken
> away from the Dr. Strangeloves of this world
> and be directed towards what really matters --
> the coming Technological Singularity.
>
> Mentifex
jmfbahciv
/BAH
Uncle Al
What California needs is a dozen more Nazis and 20 million fewer
Blacks and Browns. NASA, too.
Uncle Al
What California needs is a dozen more Nazis and 20 million fewer
Blacks and Browns. NASA, too.
--
Paul Cardinale
More likely, they're all crooked (in addition to being morons) and
when they got to the point where they couldn't cover up the shortfall
anymore, they pretended to "discover" it.
Paul Cardinale
Tomasso
"Forthminder" <ment...@myuw.net> wrote in message
news:cd02d7b4-5a4c-48ca...@2g2000prl.googlegroups.com...
AI is a branch of (mathematical) physics.
Just think of it as a structural extension of information theory.
Most AI nowadays is about approximation theory, logic and representation.
T.
zzbu...@netscape.net
> "Forthminder" <menti...@myuw.net> wrote in message
>
> news:cd02d7b4-5a4c-48ca...@2g2000prl.googlegroups.com...
>
>
>
>
>
> > Big Physics is a luxury that the human race can
> > no longer afford. It would be far better to
> > reallocate the enormous funds being squandered
> > and wasted on nuclear physics and create
> > artificial intelligence on supercomputers --
> > another spendy resource that should be taken
> > away from the Dr. Strangeloves of this world
> > and be directed towards what really matters --
> > the coming Technological Singularity.
>
> > Mentifex
> > --
> >http://www.scn.org/~mentifex/Mind.html
> >http://mind.sourceforge.net/aisteps.html
> >http://mentifex.virtualentity.com/m4thuser.html
>
> AI is a branch of (mathematical) physics.
>
> Just think of it as a structural extension of information theory.
Well, that's impossible. Since the only thing the AI idiots
even know about "structure" is "ICs". Which is why the non-idiot
people invented XML and Desktop Publishing rather than transitors
anyway
And since the only thing the idiots know about information theory
is IBM
that's why the invented HDTV, mp3, mpeg, Digital Books, USB,
Multiplexed Fiber Optics,
Self-Replicating Machines, Self-Assembling Robots, Atomic Clock
Wristwatches,
Digital Terrain Mapping, GPS, Data Fusion, Home Broadband, and the
21st Century.
Rather than idiot stuff like Analytic Continuation anyway.
>
> Most AI nowadays is about approximation theory, logic and representation.
>
> T.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
Tomasso
To make it clearer for you:
I wrote " structural extension", not "physical extension".
> And since the only thing the idiots know about information theory
> is IBM
> that's why the invented HDTV, mp3, mpeg, Digital Books, USB,
> Multiplexed Fiber Optics,
> Self-Replicating Machines, Self-Assembling Robots, Atomic Clock
> Wristwatches,
> Digital Terrain Mapping, GPS, Data Fusion, Home Broadband, and the
> 21st Century.
> Rather than idiot stuff like Analytic Continuation anyway.
Well no!
Much of that stuff in your list is application of physics, not application of
representation. Some of it is about compression. Some is about
discretisation.
If a representational framework is a reasonable for holding models
of parts of reality (whether RDF or anything else) then information
can stop being measured in "bits" and start being measured as
"answers to questions worth answering".
Noto Bene, the above sentence is not trivial. Furthermore, it is not well
understood by many people. It's starting to find a home in fields like
"sense making".
Tomasso.
jmfbahciv
If that sentence is not trivial, would you please edit it so that
it's readable? Then I'll be able to analyze what your meaning.
<snip>
zzbu...@netscape.net
> zzbun...@netscape.net wrote:
> > On Dec 17, 6:17 pm, "Tomasso" <brea...@you.fool.au> wrote:
> >> "Forthminder" <menti...@myuw.net> wrote in message
>
> >>news:cd02d7b4-5a4c-48ca...@2g2000prl.googlegroups.com...
>
> >>> Big Physics is a luxury that the human race can
> >>> no longer afford. It would be far better to
> >>> reallocate the enormous funds being squandered
> >>> and wasted on nuclear physics and create
> >>> artificial intelligence on supercomputers --
> >>> another spendy resource that should be taken
> >>> away from the Dr. Strangeloves of this world
> >>> and be directed towards what really matters --
> >>> the coming Technological Singularity.
>
> >>> Mentifex
> >>> --
> >>>http://www.scn.org/~mentifex/Mind.html
> >>>http://mind.sourceforge.net/aisteps.html
> >>>http://mentifex.virtualentity.com/m4thuser.html
> >>>http://www.newscientist.com/blogs/thesword/2009/12/nuclear-physics-hi...
>
>
> >> Just think of it as a structural extension of information theory.
>
> > Well, that's impossible. Since the only thing theAIidiots
> > even know about "structure" is "ICs". Which is why the non-idiot
> > people invented XML and Desktop Publishing rather than transitors
> > anyway
>
> To make it clearer for you:
>
> I wrote " structural extension", not "physical extension".
>
> > And since the only thing the idiots know about information theory
> > is IBM
> > that's why the invented HDTV, mp3, mpeg, Digital Books, USB,
> > Multiplexed Fiber Optics,
> > Self-Replicating Machines, Self-Assembling Robots, Atomic Clock
> > Wristwatches,
> > Digital Terrain Mapping, GPS, Data Fusion, Home Broadband, and the
> > 21st Century.
> > Rather than idiot stuff like Analytic Continuation anyway.
>
> Well no!
>
> Much of that stuff in your list is application of physics, not application of
> representation. Some of it is about compression. Some is about
> discretisation.
>
> If a representational framework is a reasonable for holding models
> of parts of reality (whether RDF or anything else) then information
> can stop being measured in "bits" and start being measured as
> "answers to questions worth answering".
Since information is bits is only information to mathematicians,
that's why it's called mathematicians, rather than thinking.
Since information in "worth answering" question is only news
to Philosophers, that's why it's call AI.
Rather than Engineering, Desktop Publishing, External Emulators,
Digital Terrain Mapping, Laser Disks, Fiber Optics, The History
Channel,
Holographics, Self-Assembling Robots, Atomic Clock Wristwatches,
Rapid Prototyping, or interesting.
>
> Noto Bene, the above sentence is not trivial. Furthermore, it is not well
> understood by many people. It's starting to find a home in fields like
> "sense making".
>
> Tomasso.
>
>
>
> >> MostAInowadays is about approximation theory, logic and representation.
>
> >> T.- Hide quoted text -
>
> >> - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
Tomasso
(1) Information is a measure of the change in a probability distribution
of a receiver as a results of a sender sending a signal to the receiver.
This is measured in bits, as developed by Shannon and Weaver, and
others.
(2) The probability distribution is specific to a particular belief, and
the probability of it being true (in the sense of agreeing with observation
and being able to make predictions about reality, or in the sense that
the sender intends the receiver to modify a belief).
(2a) In carrying out experiments or observational studies, the concept
of "sender" is extended to carrying out tests or measurements.
(3) The specificity of the probability distribution is about the statuses
for which the receiver held, or holds probabilities, as well as the
probabilities themseves. We can call these statuses a model space,
and the probabilities give likelihoods of particular models being
believed, or true, or useable for prediction, etc.
(4) The notion of framework is the structure of the model space.
This is composed of terms, constraints, and context or semantic
associations with other frameworks. RDF is a part of XML for
defining these (RDF = resource definition framework), and is a
way to denote a model space. It is not the only way, but is one
way.
(5) The notion of importance, or 'questions worth answering' can
be part of a framework, but not in the probabilities in the probability
distribution, but in the surrounding context. This includes the
stances, intentions and motivations of the receiver.
(6) Within this kind of framework, "bits" are about the influence
of the particular incoming signals. This is a lot different operationally
from "bits" when used to characterise parts of bytes and Megabytes,
or in lossy compression, or self-assembling robots, etc.
(7) Within this kind of framework, an incoming signal may result
in not merely changes to probabilities, but a revision of the framework
and the contexts in which it is embedded. Ie, structural changes as
well as simple tweaks of beliefs.
(8) For example, a knowledge representation framework may get
changes, or something which was held to be important may become
unimportant, or uncertainty may increase after a signal is received.
In the latter case, a seismic upheaval of the framework is anticipated,
but may take some time to eventuate.
Feynman famously asked "how do you know that"? His question
required a detailed answer. A second question of this kind is
"what it it that you know"? This is a question about model spaces
and frameworks, and also requires a detailed answer. It is a core
part of AI. Deep down, it is also part of physics.
Tomasso.
Tomasso
Read my response to jmfbahciv.
And stop pretending mathematicians (and others outside your camp) are
narrow-minded.
Tomasso.
alie...@gmail.com
A reasonable *what*?
> of parts of reality (whether RDF or anything else) then information
> can stop being measured in "bits" and start being measured as
> "answers to questions worth answering".
>
> Noto Bene, the above sentence is not trivial. Furthermore, it is not well
> understood by many people. It's starting to find a home in fields like
> "sense making".
>
> Tomasso.
Mark L. Fergerson
Tomasso
Sorry for the typo.
The "a" was unintended. Ie. "If a representational framework is reasonable
for holding models...".
The framework could be a grammar for constructing annotated digraphs
togehter with some transformation rules. Eg, a language or a category.
RDF schemas provide that kind of framework within XML However
these are probably too weak for the task unless teh annotation includes
probabilities as well as the other tags ubiquitous in XMLs.
Tomasso.
Tomasso
The structural aspect of this has been dealt with quite adequatelt by W3C
and the Semantic Web initiatives, but the the probabilistic (and information
theoretic) aspects are under-developed.
Ian Parker
To construct RDF tags on something like a probabilistic basis we need
LSA, possibly coupled with K-Means clustering. Web 3.0 envisages
creating an SQL database of RDF tags and the web pages they are
associated with.
Web 3.0 does not in itself envisage the creation of "methods" ie.
pieces of code, although RDF tags may be contained in the comment
statements of a program.
http://docs.google.com/Doc?docid=0AQIg8QuzTONQZGZxenF2NnNfNzY4ZDRxcnJ0aHI&hl=en_GB
This is an example of translation from Arabic to English. Don't know
Arabic? Don't worry the commentary is so extensive that you can get
the point. There are a number of points where you can insert RDF tags.
Information generated by these tags would considerably improve the
translation. Any physicist will scream if you said that the Stefan
Boltzmann law was linear with temperature. In the tag we will get the
4th power.
The candidate translation has to fit in with RDF. RDF is generated
DIRECTLY from Arabic and LSA. LSA BTW is not language dependent.
Google Translate matches words in bilingual texts. It should also take
English from an RDF and do probabilistic word matching.
To answer the original question. A supercomputer is basically a set of
computers doing parallel operations. Linguistics has a different
structure from Big Physics. Big Physics demands a parallel set of
operations to solve one problem. In linguistics and AGI we are solving
a set of problems. Let us translate from Arabic -> English, let us
generate RDF from Arabic. Then we must go (IN PARALLEL) and analyse
our translation in the light of this. This would in fact produce just
a glimmering of understanding.
There is NO understanding in ANY of the machine translations quoted.
- Ian Parker
Eugene Miya
Forthminder <ment...@myuw.net> wrote:
>Big Physics is a luxury that the human race can
>no longer afford. It would be far better to
>reallocate the enormous funds being squandered
>and wasted on nuclear physics and create
>artificial intelligence on supercomputers --
What a strange collection of cross posted groups you have here Arthur.
I can think of the guys not only in physics but other parts of science
and engineering who would think of the AI waste (including AI people who
continue to view the problem of not as power and resources which is what
supers are mostly about). I will say this: the physicists seem to be
far better in conveying their message to funders than CS/AI people.
>the coming Technological Singularity.
What ever that means.
And yes, I have spoken with my friend who have coined the term and don't
get consistent answers from them. But I still like them anyway. ;^)
Cut down follow up news groups and keep them relevant.
--
Looking for an H-912 (container).
Eugene Miya
nu...@bid.nes <alie...@gmail.com> wrote:
>On Dec 16, 3:18=A0pm, Uncle Al <Uncle...@hate.spam.net> wrote:
>> The local news reported early this year that
>> LA Mayor Antonio Villaraigosa (go ahead - you pronounce it) and his
>> diversity accountants "discovered" a $420+ million shortfall in the LA
That should be "more than $1M".
> And people wonder how the Austrian "made such a mess" of California.
> Mark L. Fergerson
Actually, this Californian just spent a week in Austria (Wien and
Innsbruck and elsewhere) from SC'09 invitation. Arnold only inherited
the mess. I suspect that he's glad to be terming out. The problem is
the conflicting desires of the CA populice. The problem with the CA
budget was before Gray Davis and Pete Wilson. Jerry Brown saw the
problem in the 1970s on his second term as gov, and he's running again
(and the leading contender in both parties because he was the first
politician to suggest a Balanced Budget Amendment). He can just put a
finger in the dike.
Eugene Miya
>> Big Physics is a luxury that the human race can
>> no longer afford. It would be far better to
In article <2679ccda-72fe-4f53...@n35g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>,
zzbu...@netscape.net <zzbu...@netscape.net> wrote:
> Well, but supercomputers are also why the
> people understand transistors, invented
> emulators, rather than clocks.
Huh? Understand transistors? Maybe used in later generations after tubes.
Shockley, Bardeen, and Bratten didn't use any computers to understand
them. Nor Pierce, and he was a ex-boss of mine.
> They're why the people who understand economics
I seriously doubt anyone understands economics. Especially economists
except in the very small.
> invented holographic memory and on-line publishing, rather than
>COBAL.
Huh?
> They're why the people who understand engineeing
> invented USB, Atomic Clock Wristwatches, XML, and GPS, rather than
>GE.
Markup languages exist largely because of lawyers. Well so does Unix to
a degree. Supercomputers had nothing to do with GPS.
> They're why the people who understand CRTs invented
> Blue Ray and Self-Replicating Machines, rather than AMA.
>
> They're why the people who understand software, invented
> home broadband, cyber batteries, optical computers, and self-
>assembling robots,
> rather than Chaos Theory
Milo who did home broadband had nothing to do with supercomputers.....
Some s/w is understandable mostly. Most isn't fully understandable.
> They're why the people who understand Firmware invented Cell Phones
>and All-In-One Printers,
> rather than Firmware.
>
> They're why the people undersand FTP, invented CD+rw, rather than
>FTP.
FTP wasn't done by supercomputer people either. In fact, they were
rather opposed to networking.
> They're why the people who understand the navy, invented UAVs and
>Rapid Prototyping,
> rather than the navy.
UAVs date to WWI and arguably even before the Wrights.
alie...@gmail.com
> In article <cafda204-041b-4ac2-8f89-e55d3015e...@2g2000prl.googlegroups.com>,n...@bid.nes <alien8...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >On Dec 16, 3:18=A0pm, Uncle Al <Uncle...@hate.spam.net> wrote:
> >> The local news reported early this year that
> >> LA Mayor Antonio Villaraigosa (go ahead - you pronounce it) and his
> >> diversity accountants "discovered" a $420+ million shortfall in the LA
> >> City budget, =A0"almost $1 million day."
>
> That should be "more than $1M".
Duh. That's why Unc put it in quotes, to point it out clearly.
Tell the ELECTED and NONELECTED IDIOTS that were quoted saying that.
> > And people wonder how the Austrian "made such a mess" of California.
>
> Actually, this Californian just spent a week in Austria (Wien and
> Innsbruck and elsewhere) from SC'09 invitation. Arnold only inherited
> the mess.
Do I have to mark every sarcastic statement I make with a nice
obvious tag for you? Why did you think I put "made such a mess" in
quotes?
> I suspect that he's glad to be terming out. The problem is
> the conflicting desires of the CA populice. The problem with the CA
> budget was before Gray Davis and Pete Wilson. Jerry Brown saw the
> problem in the 1970s on his second term as gov, and he's running again
> (and the leading contender in both parties because he was the first
> politician to suggest a Balanced Budget Amendment). He can just put a
> finger in the dike.
The problem with the CA budget is trying to fund too many people's
stoopid ideas with too little money.
I was raised in CA but left in 1970 to join the USAF. I remember far
too well and am glad to be well out of the state.
Maybe they'll wise up and decriminalize pot so they can tax it.
Should make up their deficit pretty damn quick.
<not really sarcasm>
That's if Mexico doesn't just annex SoCal by default.
<not really sarcasm/>
> Looking for an H-912 (container).
Good luck with that. Should be able to fake one up easy with a
plastic trash can, OD Green spray paint, and some straps.
Mark L. Fergerson