why isn't the WoS archive accessible via BitTorrent, Rsync, or even HTTP yet?
Ivan Shmakov
of bandwidth, why not to use, say, BitTorrent to split the costs
among those who have some?
--cut: http://www.worldofspectrum.org/WoSFAQ.html --
* Why have I been banned from FTP downloads??!
Probably because you've been using up valuable WoS bandwidth by
leeching or have exceeded the maximum number of FTP file
transfers allowed. If it's the latter, wait a day or two and
the restrictions should have been lifted. If you genuinely
believe you've been banned unfairly or without any apparent
reason, get in touch with Martijn.
Please make sure you've read the Acceptable Use Policy statement
first.
--cut: http://www.worldofspectrum.org/WoSFAQ.html --
I'm not that familiar with BitTorrent, but as a test, I've made
a .torrent file [1] for the sinclair/games/l/ [1] subdirectory
of the archive the contents of which I've downloaded over the
last months (if not years.)
I guess that Rsync would also be nice to have, as well as HTTP.
(To the best of my knowledge, FTP is by all means obsolete and
should not be used anymore.)
[1] http://waterlily.siamics.net/public/storage/users/ivan/rtorrent/4b1bf988.torrent
[2] ftp://ftp.worldofspectrum.org/pub/sinclair/games/l/
--
FSF associate member #7257
Guesser
> I wonder, if running WoS archive requires any non-trivial amount
> of bandwidth, why not to use, say, BitTorrent to split the costs
> among those who have some?
>
Martijn is the only person who can answer that...
using bittorrent would mean that you would be distributing the games,
which might stretch the (exclusive) permissions that have been granted
for wos
also you would have to have a torrent for each individual game (full
archives or dvds are NOT going to happen) which would rather defy the point.
--
link my boring website http://alistairsserver.no-ip.org/
and the comp.sys.sinclair crap games competition 2009
http://alistairsserver.no-ip.org/public/cgc/
Ivan Shmakov
>>>>> "IS" == Ivan Shmakov wrote:
IS> I wonder, if running WoS archive requires any non-trivial amount of
IS> bandwidth, why not to use, say, BitTorrent to split the costs among
IS> those who have some?
G> Martijn is the only person who can answer that...
G> using bittorrent would mean that you would be distributing the
G> games, which might stretch the (exclusive) permissions that have
G> been granted for wos
Perhaps.
It seems to me that, historically, the WoS team has been
fulfilling two tasks. Namely, contacting the copyright holders
for the distribution status of the software, and
``distributing'' the latter by running the WoS archive.
And while the ``distribution'' part has became somewhat of lower
importance in this age of broadband and 1 TB HDDs, it's still
important to determine whether the current copyright holders
find it acceptable for the games to be redistributed free of
charge. It looks to be the task that only WoS can do.
... However, the whole ``WoS's distributing'' vs. ``everyone's
distributing'' part seems to me somewhat technically unsound.
When the file is downloaded over FTP, it can pass quite a few
transit IP nodes. That is, it's much more like that the file
changes hands a dozen times or so when it's simply downloaded,
since that's how the Internet works. Then, there could be
proxies, that store the file for the occasional benefit of
someone from behind the same proxy would request the same file
from the same site. Does it count as ``distribution''? For me,
it's not. (And if for one it does, I could name an ISP which
has, or at least had, a transparent proxy which their clients
were unable to avoid.)
... There could be an arrangement that will create an impression
of WoS being in control of the distribution, too. Namely,
should there be a Torrent tracker at WoS, and should the
.torrent files reside in the WoS archive, then by maintaing the
state of these two the WoS keepers could exercise a control over
the distribution of the contents reasonable close to that they
have currently. The individual BitTorrent users are then to be
treated just like proxies are treated with the current set-up.
G> also you would have to have a torrent for each individual game (full
G> archives or dvds are NOT going to happen)
And why not? (full archives, I mean, not DVDs.)
Personally, I was rather thinking of splitting the contents into
``volumes'' of some reasonable size (say, 8 .. 128 MiB each.)
G> which would rather defy the point.
--
FSF associate member #7257
Guesser
>
> G> also you would have to have a torrent for each individual game (full
> G> archives or dvds are NOT going to happen)
>
> And why not? (full archives, I mean, not DVDs.)
>
> Personally, I was rather thinking of splitting the contents into
> ``volumes'' of some reasonable size (say, 8 .. 128 MiB each.)
because if a game's permission was revoked, or a new mia game was found
and added to a category etc you would have to recreate the torrent.
Suddenly it becomes a lot of effort again.
Dropping things in a directory on an FTP is rather easier :p
It is not a priority to make it easy for people to download the entire
archive to their systems. Just download the files you actually want. FTP
is easy enough to use, I can't think of a single operating system that
doesn't have FTP support...
Siegfried Engel
> FTP is easy enough to use, I can't think of a single operating
system that
> doesn't have FTP support...
>
Well, the ZX81's OS (BASIC in rom) has no native FTP support ;-)
Siggi
Ivan Shmakov
G> also you would have to have a torrent for each individual game (full
G> archives or dvds are NOT going to happen)
IS> And why not? (full archives, I mean, not DVDs.)
IS> Personally, I was rather thinking of splitting the contents into
IS> ``volumes'' of some reasonable size (say, 8 .. 128 MiB each.)
G> because if a game's permission was revoked, or a new mia game was
G> found and added to a category
That's why I've said ``volume'', not ``category''.
In the nutshell:
* should the game permission be revoked, the whole torrent
should be invalidated and its contents (sans the game in
question) be incorporated into another torrent; it's the only
thing that may ever invalidate the torrent;
* when a new game be added to the archive, it shouldn't become
part of any torrent immediately, especially an existing one;
instead, it should be waited before there're enough new data,
and once there's, a new volume, and thus torrent, should be
formed.
G> etc you would have to recreate the torrent. Suddenly it becomes a
G> lot of effort again.
Luckily, it could easily be automated, thanks to all the sheer
number of programming languages' implementations available as
free software today.
G> Dropping things in a directory on an FTP is rather easier :p
Yes. But the same could be said about an HTTP server, too.
G> It is not a priority to make it easy for people to download the
G> entire archive to their systems. Just download the files you
G> actually want.
I'm somewhat an off-liner. And I'm a paranoiac, too. And I
don't generally believe in any individual to be able to perform
any kind of work over any time span long enough.
... So, in short, it keeps bother me that one day all this
archive of material of (mostly) historic interest could become
history itself -- because the maintainers could become tired of
keeping it, or because of natural disasters, or whatever. I
just feel more safe when anyone volunteering to keep this thing
could do it.
(But sure, I don't think that the current maintainers should go
over all the hassle to implement all the necessary bits of the
code. If the community is interested enough, it will do the
technical part. And if it isn't, then I don't have to worry
anyway -- it'd just mean that Spectrum software is not of that
interest to its fans.)
G> FTP is easy enough to use,
As is HTTP, or Rsync (where supported.)
And NFS (where supported), or SMB/CIFS (ditto), are even easier.
Usually, I set up all of them (sans SMB/CIFS, of course) [1].
[1] nntp://news.gmane.org/gmane.linux.nfs/29501
http://article.gmane.org/gmane.linux.nfs/29501
G> I can't think of a single operating system that doesn't have FTP
G> support...
... Any example of an OS having the FTP support, which at the
same time doesn't speak HTTP?
Ivan Shmakov
[...]
IS> I'm not that familiar with BitTorrent, but as a test, I've made a
IS> .torrent file [1] for the sinclair/games/l/ [1] subdirectory of the
IS> archive the contents of which I've downloaded over the last months
IS> (if not years.)
[...]
> [1] http://waterlily.siamics.net/public/storage/users/ivan/rtorrent/4b1bf988.torrent
BTW, I saw a few hits for this file in the logs, but no actual
BitTorrent traffic so far...
... I wonder, whether I've configured my firewall well or not?
Ivan Shmakov
>>>>> "IS" == Ivan Shmakov <iv...@main.uusia.org> writes:
IS> I'm not that familiar with BitTorrent, but as a test, I've made a
IS> .torrent file [1] for the sinclair/games/l/ [1] subdirectory of the
IS> archive the contents of which I've downloaded over the last months
IS> (if not years.)
>> [1] http://waterlily.siamics.net/public/storage/users/ivan/rtorrent/4b1bf988.torrent
IS> BTW, I saw a few hits for this file in the logs, but no actual
IS> BitTorrent traffic so far...
IS> ... I wonder, whether I've configured my firewall well or not?
Looks like I didn't mess the thing up -- it now shows 31.7 MB
(is that MiB or MB, by the way?) out of which 15.8 should be due
to the test I've run locally.
Ivan Shmakov
[...]
G> It is not a priority to make it easy for people to download the
G> entire archive to their systems.
By the way, it's not actually that hard, even when FTP is
considered.
First of all, a disclaimer: at least to me, the experiments I
describe below seem to fit the WoS AUP [1] pretty well. But
I wouldn't bet on that. Use your own common sense, or
contact the site keepers, should any questions arise.
Hopefully, I won't be banned from the site.
It's known that the WoS archive has some rules designed to
prevent a person from consuming too much of the bandwidth.
These rules are enforced by the software.
However, it seems that when the delay between the consecutive
downloads is set to one minute, the blocks aren't triggered. As
an experiment (hopefully it won't cause any trouble to the
archive maintainers!) I've started GNU Wget at 06:57 UTC today,
and it has downloaded 13.8 MiB in 586 files so far (i. e., after
roughly 11 hours), with only 5 requests being unserved.
Having approximately 8548 more files to download from games/,
I'd expect to finish within 160.5 hours, or roughly a week, from
now on.
But then, I've already had approximately 7689 files before I've
started. So, it would take about two weeks to download the
whole games/ hierarchy anew.
Surely, the high resolution graphics part (inlays, maps,
magazine scans, etc.) will take much more time.
[1] http://www.worldofspectrum.org/archivenote.html
G> Just download the files you actually want. FTP is easy enough to
G> use,
I know it. I've used it for over a decade by now, after all.
G> I can't think of a single operating system that doesn't have FTP
G> support...
[...]
MCR
has lots of full sets and a complete WoS archive over bittorrent.
Address in my sig.
PS: I am a member there, but I am not affilliated with them.
--
╔═╦═╦══╦══╗ |42 is the answer dammit.
║ ║ ═╣ ║╚╗ |www.pleasuredome.org.uk - ROMs, Retro, Community
╚╩═╩╩══╩═╩═╝ |Linux - Humanity in computing
Ivan Shmakov
>>>>> "IS" == Ivan Shmakov <iv...@main.uusia.org> wrote:
>>>>> "G" == Guesser <alis...@alistairsserver.no-ip.org> writes:
>>>>> "IS" == Ivan Shmakov wrote:
G> also you would have to have a torrent for each individual game (full
G> archives or dvds are NOT going to happen)
IS> And why not? (full archives, I mean, not DVDs.)
IS> Personally, I was rather thinking of splitting the contents into
IS> ``volumes'' of some reasonable size (say, 8 .. 128 MiB each.)
G> because if a game's permission was revoked, or a new mia game was
G> found and added to a category
IS> That's why I've said ``volume'', not ``category''.
[...]
M> Don't want to hi-jack the thread, but have you visited pleasuredome?
Thanks for the link!
M> It has lots of full sets and a complete WoS archive over bittorrent.
Could you give an exact link to the .torrent files? Or do I
have to register to have access to them?
BTW, how do they manage the permissions? What about
revocations? and additions to the archive?
[...]
M> www.pleasuredome.org.uk - ROMs, Retro, Community
[...]
M> Linux - Humanity in computing
May I ask you to mention the GNU project, too, as it has began
promoting the very same ideas some seven years prior to the
initial release of Linux? [1]
[1] http://www.gnu.org/gnu/gnu-linux-faq.html
--
FSF associate member #7257 :: http://www.fsf.org/associate/
MCR
>
> Thanks for the link!
You are welcome
>> It has lots of full sets and a complete WoS archive over bittorrent.
>
> Could you give an exact link to the .torrent files? Or do I
> have to register to have access to them?
>
> BTW, how do they manage the permissions? What about
> revocations? and additions to the archive?
Well, you have to register. Some torrents are ratio based, some are
[Free] so you get upload credit without download hit. They do all retro
systems & MAME. Except Nintendo, thats a no-no :)
> [...]
>
> M> www.pleasuredome.org.uk - ROMs, Retro, Community
>
> [...]
>
> M> Linux - Humanity in computing
>
> May I ask you to mention the GNU project, too, as it has began
> promoting the very same ideas some seven years prior to the
> initial release of Linux? [1]
>
> [1] http://www.gnu.org/gnu/gnu-linux-faq.html
>
I may just do that!
--
╔═╦═╦══╦══╗ |42 is the answer dammit.
║ ║ ═╣ ║╚╗ |www.pleasuredome.org.uk - ROMs, Retro, Community
╚╩═╩╩══╩═╩═╝ |Linux - Humanity in computing
Lionel Pinkhard
That's true, but it doesn't have native BitTorrent either, nor HTTP. FTP
would probably be the easiest to getting running on the ZX81 though.
--
--------------------------------------------------------------
Professional mobile software development
BreezySoft Limited www.breezysoft.com
--------------------------------------------------------------
DanSolo
> I wonder, if running WoS archive requires any non-trivial amount
> of bandwidth, why not to use, say, BitTorrent to split the costs
> among those who have some?
The other TOSECs I've looked at have been pretty complete, though they
tend to be full of cracked versions rather than originals.